[Andorion]

Macros, on 12 November 2018 - 06:34 AM, said:

I assume you have read magician first, and will continue my post based on that assumption.

Sethanon is a fun read too. After reading sethanon I recommend the following course of action:
The Empire Trilogy (co written with Janny wurts) then read the Novella Honoured Enemy (if you don't like this book you are dead inside)
After that I'd say get a chronological list out and work your way to Rage of a Demon king (omitting the dreadful Jimmy the Hand novellas) and then stop unless you're really invested in midkemia and are a bit of a completionist

Macros, on 12 November 2018 - 06:35 AM, said:

Tesr of the gods can be skipped as well I'll, quite poor.
Murder in Lamut, eh, I wasn't a big fan of it but I recall a few members did enjoy quite well so YMMV

Yeah I have read Magician, and the Empire trilogy.

After Sethanon I will assess exactly how much of Midkemia I will read.

Tsundoku, on 12 November 2018 - 08:07 AM, said:

Read Clash of Eagles by Alan Smale. Not bad. Roman Empire survives through to 1200s and sends a legion across the Atlantic where they end up going from Chesapeake to the Mississippi. Shenanigans occur.

Seven native American tribes out of ten.

Just started the next one, Eagle in Exile. I like the pace and the straight prose style.

EDIT: also picked up something about first contact - Rejoice something something, by some guy named Ericsson I think.

Fascinating premise. Might just look more into this one.

[Macros]

I really must insist that you read honoured Enemy after sethanon, after that you are free to do as you wish

[Stalker]

Tsundoku, on 12 November 2018 - 08:07 AM, said:

Read Clash of Eagles by Alan Smale. Not bad. Roman Empire survives through to 1200s and sends a legion across the Atlantic where they end up going from Chesapeake to the Mississippi. Shenanigans occur.

Seven native American tribes out of ten.

Just started the next one, Eagle in Exile. I like the pace and the straight prose style.

EDIT: also picked up something about first contact - Rejoice something something, by some guy named Ericsson I think.

The whole trilogy was solid. If you liked the first, you'll like them all.

[polishgenius]

polishgenius, on 09 November 2018 - 11:07 PM, said:

Then I've launched into A Winter's Promise, the first of the Mirror Visitor sequence, a French YA series by Christelle Dabos, and so far I'm finding it an absolute delight, totally and completely charming.

I finished this and it's reaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllly good. It's got the charming, whimsical magical world of a Harry Potter or your old-school fairytale fantasies, but it twins it with a savage, cut-throat court-politics world and it's wonderful. I don't think I've read a book I liked this much this year.

[Zetubal]

My Alera journey continues. I finished Cursor's Fury (aka Alera 3) 2 days ago and I'm already like 100 pages into the next one. Um, spoilers for Alera 3 below.

Alera 3 is a hard one to criticize. From a neutral standpoint pretty much all that I've previously said remains the same: Many all too familiar tropes/clichés that, at times, make the story quite predictable, Sarl and Kalarus are, once again, cartoonishly evil antagonists with no personality outside of being egotistical (megalo-)maniacs. I also feel like the trope of main characters defending a position against an overwhelming force of enemies is getting old. It was already a trope of the genre when in Alera 1 the heroes defended Garrison against the Marat. Then in Alera 2 we had Tavi&Co. defending the comatose Gaius against Vord/Canim plus the defense of Bernard's army against the vord queen. Now in Alera 3, the latter half of the novel is dedicated to the defense of Elinarch against the Canim.
The infiltration of Kalare plot with Lady Aquitaine and Amara was entertaining, but the ensuing betrayal again very predictable. I could go on, but I'd mostly be repeating myself at this point.

That said, all of this criticism pales in comparison to how incredibly badass this novel is. This is the kind of epic action fantasy stuff that resonates with my inner manchild and makes me go "woah" and "oohh" while reading. Scenes like Tavi's parlay with Sarl, the final last stand on the Elinarch, Bernard shooting Kalarus are about as awesome as the genre gets. Before I started Alera I read Bennett's Divine Cities trilogy, and while I stand by my statement that the action in those novels was mighty fine, the stuff that happens in Alera is on a different level. True, much of what happens in these scenes is just as predictable and cliché as the plot itself but the part of me that quietly utters this criticism is easily overshadowed by the inner manchild shouting like a raving football fan. If Butcher's point up to this novel was to prove that writing a series built on tired old clichés can still be awesome, then he just delivered the final proof.
Technically, I think Butcher manages something that sounds simple but is very rarely accomplished: He makes me, as a seasoned reader, remember why these elements of his stories became clichés in the first place: Because, when they are done right, they are just so damn good.
Now, here's to hoping that, now that he's proven himself as an author who has some mastery of the staples of fantasy, he can continue to develop the series in a direction wherein I actually read something new.



Ah, minor sidenote/gripe: I am really sort of tired of the way Butcher uses sex as a crutch to end scenes. Not that I have anything against the carnal act itself - I just think that the way sex is used as an instrument to cut scenes short does a disservice to the characters. It's kind of ridiculous to see a tough character like Amara experience a vaginal meltdown whenever Bernard so much as grunts in her general direction. I just read that scene in Alera 4 where Gaius has now taken Amara on the mission to infiltrate Kalare, and they're both in the wilderness planning their approach. Then Gaius is like "You know what? Imma take a walk", to basically give Amara and Bernard some time to bang each other. Um, kay. Would be weird if I were in a meeting with my boss, then my girlfriend dropped by, and my boss left the room all like "You two take your time, eh. We'll continue our talk later". I mean, I get that they are into each other, but does the fact that they can't keep their hands off each other have to be such an essential element of their scenes together? Between that and the one time in Alera 2 where the two of them basically shagged within earshot of a century of legionares (+Doroga and his gargant), this is starting to feel a little pathological.

[Abyss]

Macros, on 12 November 2018 - 06:34 AM, said:

I assume you have read magician first, and will continue my post based on that assumption.

Sethanon is a fun read too. After reading sethanon I recommend the following course of action:
The Empire Trilogy (co written with Janny wurts) then read the Novella Honoured Enemy (if you don't like this book you are dead inside)
After that I'd say get a chronological list out and work your way to Rage of a Demon king (omitting the dreadful Jimmy the Hand novellas) and then stop unless you're really invested in midkemia and are a bit of a completionist

Yeah, if you’re actually invested in Midkemia just stop there and preserve the love. Things go downhill rapidly from there on.

[Andorion]

Abyss, on 13 November 2018 - 01:02 AM, said:

Macros, on 12 November 2018 - 06:34 AM, said:

I assume you have read magician first, and will continue my post based on that assumption.

Sethanon is a fun read too. After reading sethanon I recommend the following course of action:
The Empire Trilogy (co written with Janny wurts) then read the Novella Honoured Enemy (if you don't like this book you are dead inside)
After that I'd say get a chronological list out and work your way to Rage of a Demon king (omitting the dreadful Jimmy the Hand novellas) and then stop unless you're really invested in midkemia and are a bit of a completionist

Yeah, if you're actually invested in Midkemia just stop there and preserve the love. Things go downhill rapidly from there on.

From what Goodreads tells me, the ratings start dropping by the end of the Serpentwar saga.

[Abyss]

Andorion, on 13 November 2018 - 03:06 AM, said:

Abyss, on 13 November 2018 - 01:02 AM, said:

Macros, on 12 November 2018 - 06:34 AM, said:

I assume you have read magician first, and will continue my post based on that assumption.

Sethanon is a fun read too. After reading sethanon I recommend the following course of action:
The Empire Trilogy (co written with Janny wurts) then read the Novella Honoured Enemy (if you don't like this book you are dead inside)
After that I'd say get a chronological list out and work your way to Rage of a Demon king (omitting the dreadful Jimmy the Hand novellas) and then stop unless you're really invested in midkemia and are a bit of a completionist

Yeah, if you're actually invested in Midkemia just stop there and preserve the love. Things go downhill rapidly from there on.

From what Goodreads tells me, the ratings start dropping by the end of the Serpentwar saga.

Yep. And Don’t get me started on THE KING’S BUCCANEER.

[Macros]

Now abyss. We've discussed this before. buccaneer has many many flaws (one mighty deep one!) BUT I personally feel that it's a set up novel that makes the serpent war TRILOGY so much better.

[Slow Ben]

We moved and i cant find the copy of TTH I was reading, been looking for weeks.


This vexes me. I'm terribly vexed.

[Zetubal]

Briar King, on 13 November 2018 - 12:52 AM, said:

Still though aren't you glad that we(I) pushed the series for you?

Hot damn I love Alera!

Fuckin A

Without a doubt, yes.
Searching, finding, and pointing out what I perceive to be flaws or sub par elements in Alera is more of an "academic exercise" for me... It's like an analytical mindset that's been so deeply ingrained in me that I subconsciously apply it to every form of media I consume.
But in this case, the things I find worthy of criticism are largely inconsequential when compared to how much I enjoy Alera. And, just to repeat my point, I really, really enjoy the series so far. It's great stuff and its flaws do little to subtract from the overall experience.

So, thanks I suppose So far, the suggestions in this forum have been spot on.

[Macros]

I await your views on book 6

[Dadding]

I haven't posted here in a while... I made my way through Powder Mage & The Broken Empire, they were both enjoyable, but mediocre at other points.

I just finished The First Law Trilogy, and I'm halfway through the first Mistborn book. I'm really disappointed in both of them. I heard such good things about both of them, but Abercrombie's terrible plotting (the second book really doesn't even matter) and ham-fisted character development (I got hit in the face so now I'm not as much of a jerk), combined with Sanderson's terrible dialogue and constant info dumps (the book is really just a magic system with a generic plot tacked on) makes me want to give up on Fantasy and just go back and re-read Malazan.

Luckily I'm also reading the Fitz and the Fool trilogy, which is keeping me going, thanks Robin Hobb.

[Aptorian]

Agreed didn't like First Law nor Mistborn. Let me warn you, the second and third Mistborn books don't improve.

[Zetubal]

Macros, on 13 November 2018 - 01:58 PM, said:

I await your views on book 6

I'll make sure to share them once I get to it.

[polishgenius]

I've now started All Those Explosions Were Someone Else's Fault by James Alan Gardner, which is the first of a series that is essentially a meeting between urban fantasy-vampires, werewolves, demons and all- and superheroes. Enjoying it a lot. There have been more elegantly structured novels of both genres, because the mechanism by which both fit in the same world and powers work is all quite complicated and there's a lot of early infodumping, but it isn't dry, it's a witty book in general, the action so far has been nice with inventive use of powers, a neat cast of characters... all the things you'd want from this sort of thing really.

Also it's Canadian so QT and Abyss should be reading it by default.

[Salt-Man Z]

Finished Caitlin R. Kiernan's The Drowning Girl. Boy howdy, was that weird. It would probably take someone smarter than me a few rereads to nail down what exactly was going on there. Still quite compelling, though.

[Abyss]

Zetubal, on 13 November 2018 - 01:50 PM, said:

Briar King, on 13 November 2018 - 12:52 AM, said:

Still though aren't you glad that we(I) pushed the series for you?

Hot damn I love Alera!

Fuckin A

Without a doubt, yes.
Searching, finding, and pointing out what I perceive to be flaws or sub par elements in Alera is more of an "academic exercise" for me... It's like an analytical mindset that's been so deeply ingrained in me that I subconsciously apply it to every form of media I consume.
But in this case, the things I find worthy of criticism are largely inconsequential when compared to how much I enjoy Alera. And, just to repeat my point, I really, really enjoy the series so far. It's great stuff and its flaws do little to subtract from the overall experience.

So, thanks I suppose So far, the suggestions in this forum have been spot on.

WE ROCK!!!!

Yeah, ALERA has it's flaws, but it's just so damn much fun i couldn't be bothered dwelling on them.
It's not Malazan... it's popcorn, but popcorn is good sometimes.

Macros, on 13 November 2018 - 01:58 PM, said:

I await your views on book 6

Hee.

I can already guess... 'same flaws but FRIKKIN AWESOME WOOOOOOO.'

Dadding, on 13 November 2018 - 02:12 PM, said:

...
I just finished The First Law Trilogy, and I'm halfway through the first Mistborn book. I'm really disappointed in both of them. I heard such good things about both of them, but Abercrombie's terrible plotting (the second book really doesn't even matter) and ham-fisted character development (I got hit in the face so now I'm not as much of a jerk), combined with Sanderson's terrible dialogue and constant info dumps (the book is really just a magic system with a generic plot tacked on) makes me want to give up on Fantasy and just go back and re-read Malazan.

Luckily I'm also reading the Fitz and the Fool trilogy, which is keeping me going, thanks Robin Hobb.

I've always thought the FL trilo to be JA's weakest work. I didn't think they sucked, but 1 is all setup, 2 just barely moves the characters along, and pretty much everything happens in 3, much of which is bad just for the sake of bad things happening to good characters. Tho for the record, the evolution from jerk to less jerk was already happening before he got hit in the face.

Alternative Goose, on 13 November 2018 - 03:38 PM, said:

Agreed didn't like ... Mistborn. Let me warn you, the second and third Mistborn books don't improve.

Disagree. They do. A lot.
Weak compared to some of BS' later work, but better than ELANTRIS.

[worry]

I guess I'll say that the nasty, 'pointless exercise' nature of the First Law books is what I like about them. I don't want a bunch of authors doing this kind of thing, but Abercrombie in particular's sense of gallows humor and take on how power dynamics play out, with a total lack of 'destiny' plotting, is a really cool vivisection of fantasy tropes. That said, the books after First Law were still all better than the first trilogy.
Also I agree that Mistborn 2 & 3 are >>>>>> V for Vendet...I mean Mistborn 1.

[Dadding]

Glad I'm not alone in disliking them. I heard that that First Law was brutal and grimdark but I didn't really see it. It felt pretty light and fluffy to me, with a bit of lite-torture. It was no (fucking) Acts of Caine.

I'll stick with Mistborn at least until the end of the book, then re-evaluate. I'll at least give him another shot when I give WoT another shot soon.