[Tiste Simeon]

Just finished Rejoice! A Knife to the Heart by SE. I flipping loved it. I'll agree that it was somewhat on the nose and it definitely isn't an action packed military sci-fi or soaring space opera but it is utterly fascinating and the nods and winks to real life people and situations elicited a chuckle or two. And though I've seen criticism for those same things, it's like he's read some of the people flat out denying that he believes one thing or another because of their own perception of Malazan and rubbed it in their faces. It's blunt and unapologetic and it's triggering right wing nutjobs and I love it.

[Mentalist]

Zetubal, on 13 November 2018 - 01:50 PM, said:

Briar King, on 13 November 2018 - 12:52 AM, said:

Still though aren't you glad that we(I) pushed the series for you?

Hot damn I love Alera!

Fuckin A

Without a doubt, yes.
Searching, finding, and pointing out what I perceive to be flaws or sub par elements in Alera is more of an "academic exercise" for me... It's like an analytical mindset that's been so deeply ingrained in me that I subconsciously apply it to every form of media I consume.
But in this case, the things I find worthy of criticism are largely inconsequential when compared to how much I enjoy Alera. And, just to repeat my point, I really, really enjoy the series so far. It's great stuff and its flaws do little to subtract from the overall experience.

So, thanks I suppose So far, the suggestions in this forum have been spot on.

Things went downhill after Book 5 for me. Book 6 was OTT epic silliness, but overall, 2-4 are the strongest books.

Dadding, on 13 November 2018 - 02:12 PM, said:

I haven't posted here in a while... I made my way through Powder Mage & The Broken Empire, they were both enjoyable, but mediocre at other points.

I just finished The First Law Trilogy, and I'm halfway through the first Mistborn book. I'm really disappointed in both of them. I heard such good things about both of them, but Abercrombie's terrible plotting (the second book really doesn't even matter) and ham-fisted character development (I got hit in the face so now I'm not as much of a jerk), combined with Sanderson's terrible dialogue and constant info dumps (the book is really just a magic system with a generic plot tacked on) makes me want to give up on Fantasy and just go back and re-read Malazan.

Luckily I'm also reading the Fitz and the Fool trilogy, which is keeping me going, thanks Robin Hobb.

Alternative Goose, on 13 November 2018 - 03:38 PM, said:

Agreed didn't like First Law nor Mistborn. Let me warn you, the second and third Mistborn books don't improve.

First Law is kinda meh. That ending of Book 3 makes it impossibly to take Abercrombie seriously as a world-builder, so at that point it all just becomes popcorn fantasy. That's trying to be grimdark.

Mistborn 1 was meh. 2 and 3 expand the worldbuilding, and I really enjoyed the conclusion. That being said, Sanderson's characterization skills didn't really improve until the Books 2 and 3 of the second Mistborn series, so if it's the one-dimensional characters and cringy dialogue that are putting you off, it won't get better.

polishgenius, on 13 November 2018 - 05:44 PM, said:

I've now started All Those Explosions Were Someone Else's Fault by James Alan Gardner, which is the first of a series that is essentially a meeting between urban fantasy-vampires, werewolves, demons and all- and superheroes. Enjoying it a lot. There have been more elegantly structured novels of both genres, because the mechanism by which both fit in the same world and powers work is all quite complicated and there's a lot of early infodumping, but it isn't dry, it's a witty book in general, the action so far has been nice with inventive use of powers, a neat cast of characters... all the things you'd want from this sort of thing really.

Also it's Canadian so QT and Abyss should be reading it by default.

Noted. I've seen it on the shelves a few times.

As for me, I finished "Edgedancer", the last entry in the Arcanum Unbounded collection. Must say, the collection is pretty good overall, though "White Sand" was weaker for being a graphical novel excerpt.

I think next I'll go back to Django Wexler and read the 4th Shadow campaign book on my kindle for commute.

This post has been edited by Mentalist: 14 November 2018 - 01:40 AM

[End of Disc One]

This is the only community I’ve seen where the first Mistborn book is considered the weakest

[Andorion]

Dadding, on 13 November 2018 - 02:12 PM, said:

I haven't posted here in a while... I made my way through Powder Mage & The Broken Empire, they were both enjoyable, but mediocre at other points.

I just finished The First Law Trilogy, and I'm halfway through the first Mistborn book. I'm really disappointed in both of them. I heard such good things about both of them, but Abercrombie's terrible plotting (the second book really doesn't even matter) and ham-fisted character development (I got hit in the face so now I'm not as much of a jerk), combined with Sanderson's terrible dialogue and constant info dumps (the book is really just a magic system with a generic plot tacked on) makes me want to give up on Fantasy and just go back and re-read Malazan.

Luckily I'm also reading the Fitz and the Fool trilogy, which is keeping me going, thanks Robin Hobb.

Abyss, on 13 November 2018 - 06:23 PM, said:

Dadding, on 13 November 2018 - 02:12 PM, said:

...
I just finished The First Law Trilogy, and I'm halfway through the first Mistborn book. I'm really disappointed in both of them. I heard such good things about both of them, but Abercrombie's terrible plotting (the second book really doesn't even matter) and ham-fisted character development (I got hit in the face so now I'm not as much of a jerk), combined with Sanderson's terrible dialogue and constant info dumps (the book is really just a magic system with a generic plot tacked on) makes me want to give up on Fantasy and just go back and re-read Malazan.

Luckily I'm also reading the Fitz and the Fool trilogy, which is keeping me going, thanks Robin Hobb.

I've always thought the FL trilo to be JA's weakest work. I didn't think they sucked, but 1 is all setup, 2 just barely moves the characters along, and pretty much everything happens in 3, much of which is bad just for the sake of bad things happening to good characters. Tho for the record, the evolution from jerk to less jerk was already happening before he got hit in the face.

Alternative Goose, on 13 November 2018 - 03:38 PM, said:

Agreed didn't like ... Mistborn. Let me warn you, the second and third Mistborn books don't improve.

Disagree. They do. A lot.
Weak compared to some of BS' later work, but better than ELANTRIS.

Mentalist, on 14 November 2018 - 01:39 AM, said:

Dadding, on 13 November 2018 - 02:12 PM, said:

I haven't posted here in a while... I made my way through Powder Mage & The Broken Empire, they were both enjoyable, but mediocre at other points.

I just finished The First Law Trilogy, and I'm halfway through the first Mistborn book. I'm really disappointed in both of them. I heard such good things about both of them, but Abercrombie's terrible plotting (the second book really doesn't even matter) and ham-fisted character development (I got hit in the face so now I'm not as much of a jerk), combined with Sanderson's terrible dialogue and constant info dumps (the book is really just a magic system with a generic plot tacked on) makes me want to give up on Fantasy and just go back and re-read Malazan.

Luckily I'm also reading the Fitz and the Fool trilogy, which is keeping me going, thanks Robin Hobb.

Alternative Goose, on 13 November 2018 - 03:38 PM, said:

Agreed didn't like First Law nor Mistborn. Let me warn you, the second and third Mistborn books don't improve.

First Law is kinda meh. That ending of Book 3 makes it impossibly to take Abercrombie seriously as a world-builder, so at that point it all just becomes popcorn fantasy. That's trying to be grimdark.

Mistborn 1 was meh. 2 and 3 expand the worldbuilding, and I really enjoyed the conclusion. That being said, Sanderson's characterization skills didn't really improve until the Books 2 and 3 of the second Mistborn series, so if it's the one-dimensional characters and cringy dialogue that are putting you off, it won't get better.

First Law is basically JA jumping up and down and pointing and yelling "Look! I subverted LotR."
Its clumsy. And Abercrombie has an extremely irritating tendency to sacrifice plot coherence for his own agenda. This is best demonstrated in BSC. His best book is Red Country where he wrote in a more mature manner.

Regarding Mistborn, I don't think the second and third book improved much. The second book was decidedly mediocre and I hated the ending of the third book.

Dadding's initial description of Mistborn being "a magic system with a plot tacked on" is quite accurate as Sanderson is very poor at characterization and dialogue.

This weakness is emphasized in later books where he has characters whose staple is "witty" or "funny" dialogue - Wit, Shallan, Wayne. In practice this witty dialogue becomes extremely cringy.

[Andorion]

polishgenius, on 13 November 2018 - 05:44 PM, said:

I've now started All Those Explosions Were Someone Else's Fault by James Alan Gardner, which is the first of a series that is essentially a meeting between urban fantasy-vampires, werewolves, demons and all- and superheroes. Enjoying it a lot. There have been more elegantly structured novels of both genres, because the mechanism by which both fit in the same world and powers work is all quite complicated and there's a lot of early infodumping, but it isn't dry, it's a witty book in general, the action so far has been nice with inventive use of powers, a neat cast of characters... all the things you'd want from this sort of thing really.

Also it's Canadian so QT and Abyss should be reading it by default.

Sounds interesting. Definitely noted.

Tiste Simeon, on 13 November 2018 - 10:40 PM, said:

Just finished Rejoice! A Knife to the Heart by SE. I flipping loved it. I'll agree that it was somewhat on the nose and it definitely isn't an action packed military sci-fi or soaring space opera but it is utterly fascinating and the nods and winks to real life people and situations elicited a chuckle or two. And though I've seen criticism for those same things, it's like he's read some of the people flat out denying that he believes one thing or another because of their own perception of Malazan and rubbed it in their faces. It's blunt and unapologetic and it's triggering right wing nutjobs and I love it.

Yep, I loved it too. SE does not hold back at all in this book, and as I said in my own reaction post, anyone who has read Malazan should not be surprised at his thematic focus. These are things he has been thinking about for quite some time.

[Zeto Demerzel]

Mentalist, on 14 November 2018 - 01:39 AM, said:

Zetubal, on 13 November 2018 - 01:50 PM, said:

Briar King, on 13 November 2018 - 12:52 AM, said:

Still though aren't you glad that we(I) pushed the series for you?

Hot damn I love Alera!

Fuckin A

Without a doubt, yes.
Searching, finding, and pointing out what I perceive to be flaws or sub par elements in Alera is more of an "academic exercise" for me... It's like an analytical mindset that's been so deeply ingrained in me that I subconsciously apply it to every form of media I consume.
But in this case, the things I find worthy of criticism are largely inconsequential when compared to how much I enjoy Alera. And, just to repeat my point, I really, really enjoy the series so far. It's great stuff and its flaws do little to subtract from the overall experience.

So, thanks I suppose So far, the suggestions in this forum have been spot on.

Things went downhill after Book 5 for me. Book 6 was OTT epic silliness, but overall, 2-4 are the strongest books.

Dadding, on 13 November 2018 - 02:12 PM, said:

I haven't posted here in a while... I made my way through Powder Mage & The Broken Empire, they were both enjoyable, but mediocre at other points.

I just finished The First Law Trilogy, and I'm halfway through the first Mistborn book. I'm really disappointed in both of them. I heard such good things about both of them, but Abercrombie's terrible plotting (the second book really doesn't even matter) and ham-fisted character development (I got hit in the face so now I'm not as much of a jerk), combined with Sanderson's terrible dialogue and constant info dumps (the book is really just a magic system with a generic plot tacked on) makes me want to give up on Fantasy and just go back and re-read Malazan.

Luckily I'm also reading the Fitz and the Fool trilogy, which is keeping me going, thanks Robin Hobb.

Alternative Goose, on 13 November 2018 - 03:38 PM, said:

Agreed didn't like First Law nor Mistborn. Let me warn you, the second and third Mistborn books don't improve.

First Law is kinda meh. That ending of Book 3 makes it impossibly to take Abercrombie seriously as a world-builder, so at that point it all just becomes popcorn fantasy. That's trying to be grimdark.

Mistborn 1 was meh. 2 and 3 expand the worldbuilding, and I really enjoyed the conclusion. That being said, Sanderson's characterization skills didn't really improve until the Books 2 and 3 of the second Mistborn series, so if it's the one-dimensional characters and cringy dialogue that are putting you off, it won't get better.

Abercrombie's "look at me flip character expectations around" shtick has grown a bit old for me. It was cool in The First Law, earned a few "I was expecting that" shrugs in BSC, and, frankly, pissed me off by the time I got to the end of the Shattered Sea. Enjoyed Red Country immensely and The Heroes to a lesser extent and will probably continue to read a lot of what he writes regardless.

I read The Final Empire (Mistborn 1) way back in 2010. The prose and the awkwardness of character interactions bothered me so much that I didn't touch any of Sanderson's other books (ok so I simply had to consume his WoT stuff, guilty pleasure and all ) till this year. Re-read that one and Mistborn 2 and 3 this year and found very little to complain about. Enjoyed both quite a bit.

[Chance]

On Sanderson above he's always been a purveyer of magic system tutorials with tacked on plot and cardboard characters. Thought he would break the trend in the stormlight archive but I was wrong .


About to finish Cold Iron from Miles Cameron and it isn't up to Red Knight standards but decent all the same, always been a sucker for mythic Byzantium.

Now what to do next either continue the Lotus War series which I found surprisingly enjoyable or try Thin Air or possibly the Labyrinth Index humm...what to do.

This post has been edited by Chance: 14 November 2018 - 03:12 PM

[Abyss]

Macros, on 13 November 2018 - 05:47 AM, said:

Now abyss. We've discussed this before. buccaneer has many many flaws (one mighty deep one!) BUT I personally feel that it's a set up novel that makes the serpent war TRILOGY so much better.

Nothing that wasn't already set up, better, in PRINCE OF THE BLOOD, three years earlier.
It's not atrocious, just mildly insulting to the reader in a key respect that drags down an otherwise decent fantasy pirate tale.

[Abyss]

Stalker, on 12 November 2018 - 06:27 PM, said:

Tsundoku, on 12 November 2018 - 08:07 AM, said:

Read Clash of Eagles by Alan Smale. Not bad. Roman Empire survives through to 1200s and sends a legion across the Atlantic where they end up going from Chesapeake to the Mississippi. Shenanigans occur.

Seven native American tribes out of ten.

Just started the next one, Eagle in Exile. I like the pace and the straight prose style.
..

The whole trilogy was solid. If you liked the first, you'll like them all.

Intrigued/Noted.

polishgenius, on 13 November 2018 - 05:44 PM, said:

I've now started All Those Explosions Were Someone Else's Fault by James Alan Gardner, which is the first of a series that is essentially a meeting between urban fantasy-vampires, werewolves, demons and all- and superheroes. Enjoying it a lot. There have been more elegantly structured novels of both genres, because the mechanism by which both fit in the same world and powers work is all quite complicated and there's a lot of early infodumping, but it isn't dry, it's a witty book in general, the action so far has been nice with inventive use of powers, a neat cast of characters... all the things you'd want from this sort of thing really.

Also it's Canadian so QT and Abyss should be reading it by default.

SOLD.

Dadding, on 13 November 2018 - 10:11 PM, said:

[TFL]
Glad I'm not alone in disliking them. I heard that that First Law was brutal and grimdark but I didn't really see it. It felt pretty light and fluffy to me, with a bit of lite-torture. It was no (fucking) Acts of Caine.
...

Not much is. Fuck.
...and i'm still bitter that we will probably never see any more Caine.
Fucking fuckitty fuckfuck.

Quote

Tiste Simeon, on 13 November 2018 - 10:40 PM, said:

Just finished Rejoice! A Knife to the Heart by SE. I flipping loved it. I'll agree that it was somewhat on the nose and it definitely isn't an action packed military sci-fi or soaring space opera but it is utterly fascinating and the nods and winks to real life people and situations elicited a chuckle or two. And though I've seen criticism for those same things, it's like he's read some of the people flat out denying that he believes one thing or another because of their own perception of Malazan and rubbed it in their faces. It's blunt and unapologetic and it's triggering right wing nutjobs and I love it.

Yep, I loved it too. SE does not hold back at all in this book, and as I said in my own reaction post, anyone who has read Malazan should not be surprised at his thematic focus. These are things he has been thinking about for quite some time.

I cannot get my hands/ears on the audiobook soon enuf.
...Tho apparently the production co. feels otherwise. Grr...

Mentalist, on 14 November 2018 - 01:39 AM, said:

Zetubal, on 13 November 2018 - 01:50 PM, said:

Without a doubt, yes.
Searching, finding, and pointing out what I perceive to be flaws or sub par elements in Alera is more of an "academic exercise" for me... It's like an analytical mindset that's been so deeply ingrained in me that I subconsciously apply it to every form of media I consume.
But in this case, the things I find worthy of criticism are largely inconsequential when compared to how much I enjoy Alera. And, just to repeat my point, I really, really enjoy the series so far. It's great stuff and its flaws do little to subtract from the overall experience.

So, thanks I suppose So far, the suggestions in this forum have been spot on.

Things went downhill after Book 5 for me. Book 6 was OTT epic silliness, but overall, 2-4 are the strongest books.

Counterpoint: There's a steady escalation through the books. 6 isn't so much OTT as pretty much exactly where it should be in the series.

End of Disc One, on 14 November 2018 - 03:00 AM, said:

This is the only community I've seen where the first Mistborn book is considered the weakest

WE ARE SOOOOOO EDGY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Andorion]

Chance, on 14 November 2018 - 03:10 PM, said:

On Sanderson above he's always been a purveyer of magic system tutorials with tacked on plot and cardboard characters. Thought he would break the trend in the stormlight archive but I was wrong .


About to finish Cold Iron from Miles Cameron and it isn't up to Red Knight standards but decent all the same, always been a sucker for mythic Byzantium.

Now what to do next either continue the Lotus War series which I found surprisingly enjoyable or try Thin Air or possibly the Labyrinth Index humm...what to do.

Lotus War surprised me. I had zero expectations going in, but the series turned out really quite well in the end. If you make allowances for a bit of Kristoff's trademark melodrama (he does pull it off really well though) the books are a really enjoyable adventure story.

[Abyss]

About halfway through and I am really enjoying Richard Morgan's THIN AIR.

It's certainly closer to 13/BLACK MAN than the ALTERED CARBON or LFFH books, but that works for me just fine tnx.
I like his semi-terraformed Mars, i like the protagonist Veil... his backstory and 'situation' is very RKM but nicely original and worked into the character's personality and pov.

I fear this may be another Morgan book people don't love simply because it isn't more Kovacs, but i think they're wrong.

[QuickTidal]

End of Disc One, on 14 November 2018 - 03:00 AM, said:

This is the only community I’ve seen where the first Mistborn book is considered the weakest

To me, Mistborn as a story, ONLY works because of the last act. Book 1 and 2 are fine on their own. Decent fantasy, if run of the mill at some points...with a well-crafted magic system to push it over the top into "you should read this" territory.

Book 3, however, is the reason the series is so elevated for me. Everything that happens in the back half of that book justifies what happened in the rest of the series right down to the smallest brass tacks. Seemingly bizarre narrative points from book 1 or 2 sew up so neatly in book 3 that you can actively tell that Brandon meticulously planned out everything from the get go. Even better is that...

Spoiler

We didn't realize the whole time that what were were watching was the rebirth of an entire fantasy setting/world that had been pushed to its absolute extinction, and the establishment of a pantheon of gods who would be used in future volumes in that newly birthed fresh world/setting.

In that vein it's absolutely STUNNINGLY realized.

I should be clearer...a newish fantasy author out of the gate (barring ELANTRIS) first major fantasy series was a three book narrative about the world, the setting and the gods...and we just didn't know it at first.

I'll never not be impressed by the stones it took to do that.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 14 November 2018 - 04:55 PM

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

I'm so happy other people didn't like FIRST LAW. It was sold to me on "but he subverts ALL the expectations!" and I'll admit I didn't finish the first book. I gave up half way through when I got sick of waiting for the subversion to start and the generic boring cut and paste standard fantasy to end.

I have occasionally wondered if I'd missed a trick through impatience.... seems likely that wasn't the case.

In happier news - picking up a copy of Rejoice tomorrow!

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 14 November 2018 - 04:55 PM, said:

End of Disc One, on 14 November 2018 - 03:00 AM, said:

This is the only community I’ve seen where the first Mistborn book is considered the weakest

To me, Mistborn as a story, ONLY works because of the last act. Book 1 and 2 are fine on their own. Decent fantasy, if run of the mill at some points...with a well-crafted magic system to push it over the top into "you should read this" territory.

Book 3, however, is the reason the series is so elevated for me. Everything that happens in the back half of that book justifies what happened in the rest of the series right down to the smallest brass tacks. Seemingly bizarre narrative points from book 1 or 2 sew up so neatly in book 3 that you can actively tell that Brandon meticulously planned out everything from the get go. Even better is that...

Spoiler

We didn't realize the whole time that what were were watching was the rebirth of an entire fantasy setting/world that had been pushed to its absolute extinction, and the establishment of a pantheon of gods who would be used in future volumes in that newly birthed fresh world/setting.

In that vein it's absolutely STUNNINGLY realized.

I should be clearer...a newish fantasy author out of the gate (barring ELANTRIS) first major fantasy series was a three book narrative about the world, the setting and the gods...and we just didn't know it at first.

I'll never not be impressed by the stones it took to do that.

Book 1 is serviceable fantasy... a reasonably original if somewhat random magic system, and a bunch of by the numbers familiar archetype characters in familiar situations.
Evil Overlord, check. Evil army with evil underlings who are evil, check. Brave resistance made up of plucky heroic but flawed Robin Hood and His Merry Men rips, check. City-state in undeveloped world setting with repressed citizens, check. Spirited orphan Chosen One novice hero, check. Mentor-student thing, check.

It's only with 2 and 3 where the series moves beyond those basics and becomes far more interesting and original.

[Abyss]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 14 November 2018 - 04:57 PM, said:

I'm so happy other people didn't like FIRST LAW. It was sold to me on "but he subverts ALL the expectations!" and I'll admit I didn't finish the first book. I gave up half way through when I got sick of waiting for the subversion to start and the generic boring cut and paste standard fantasy to end.

I have occasionally wondered if I'd missed a trick through impatience.... seems likely that wasn't the case.

...

Not much gets 'subverted' til the second and third books, and even then, i'd go with 'darker than typical' more than 'subversive'.


Arguably, the character of Glokta is both original and somewhat subversive right out of the gate, but even that isn't as crystallized til late in the book.

So i suppose one might say you missed the subversive parts, but hey, life's too short to tough it out through a book you aren't enjoying just because everyone else you know and respect thinks they're good and you're wrong and should be shunned and shamed and have sticks thrown at you someone else says they enjoyed it.

You might try JA's SHATTERED SEA trilo if you haven't already. Better writing than TFL.

[QuickTidal]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 14 November 2018 - 04:57 PM, said:

I'm so happy other people didn't like FIRST LAW. It was sold to me on "but he subverts ALL the expectations!" and I'll admit I didn't finish the first book. I gave up half way through when I got sick of waiting for the subversion to start and the generic boring cut and paste standard fantasy to end.

I have occasionally wondered if I'd missed a trick through impatience.... seems likely that wasn't the case.

I'll add my voice to this. While I like First Law...I kept wanting for things to happen when interesting plot points would open up....and then Abercrombie would (like Rian goddamn Johnson) just kill them dead for his subversions leaving the story or characters in tatters needing picked up in the next volume...which was a waste of time. It wasn't until I read the last book in the series that I felt like I'd been fleeced with the promise of interesting subversions. The ending of that book makes me unreasonably angry. I didn't like BSC (Abyss, I will fight you!) as I felt like the lead is SUPER irredeemable and dickish....this should have been THE LIMEY in fantasy form, but the protagonist was a reprehensible jerk. And THE HEROES is where I checked out of the main series of books, as I found the violence and gore in that on so far over the top into cartoonishness. By like page 100 I was sick to my stomach and was given no reason to read on and find out why.

I liked his YA attempt with HALF A KING more than any of his other work, but I'm not chomping at the bit to finish them.

For my money, Mark Lawrence is out there doing what Abercrombie claims to set out to do....but Lawrence delivers. And in spades.

[Mentalist]

QuickTidal, on 14 November 2018 - 05:23 PM, said:

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 14 November 2018 - 04:57 PM, said:

I'm so happy other people didn't like FIRST LAW. It was sold to me on "but he subverts ALL the expectations!" and I'll admit I didn't finish the first book. I gave up half way through when I got sick of waiting for the subversion to start and the generic boring cut and paste standard fantasy to end.

I have occasionally wondered if I'd missed a trick through impatience.... seems likely that wasn't the case.

I'll add my voice to this. While I like First Law...I kept wanting for things to happen when interesting plot points would open up....and then Abercrombie would (like Rian goddamn Johnson) just kill them dead for his subversions leaving the story or characters in tatters needing picked up in the next volume...which was a waste of time. It wasn't until I read the last book in the series that I felt like I'd been fleeced with the promise of interesting subversions. The ending of that book makes me unreasonably angry. I didn't like BSC (Abyss, I will fight you!) as I felt like the lead is SUPER irredeemable and dickish....this should have been THE LIMEY in fantasy form, but the protagonist was a reprehensible jerk. And THE HEROES is where I checked out of the main series of books, as I found the violence and gore in that on so far over the top into cartoonishness. By like page 100 I was sick to my stomach and was given no reason to read on and find out why.

I liked his YA attempt with HALF A KING more than any of his other work, but I'm not chomping at the bit to finish them.

For my money, Mark Lawrence is out there doing what Abercrombie claims to set out to do....but Lawrence delivers. And in spades.

Counterpoint: BSC is fantasy "Count of Monte Christo" with a grimdark twist (and awesome).

While Broken Empire pins everything on how messed up Jorg is, and that gets tedious quick. The backstory and worldbuilding's nice and interesting to puzzle together, but the story is mediocre.
The second trilo is hilarious though.

Edit: I also read the Mistborn trilo all at once (because I picked up the box set in a sale), so my experience would differ from people reading them separately.

This post has been edited by Mentalist: 14 November 2018 - 06:17 PM

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 14 November 2018 - 05:23 PM, said:

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 14 November 2018 - 04:57 PM, said:

I'm so happy other people didn't like FIRST LAW. ...

... It wasn't until I read the last book in the series that I felt like I'd been fleeced with the promise of interesting subversions. The ending of that book makes me unreasonably angry.

Without getting into spoilers, that was kind of the point. No happy endings and neat tidy resolutions. The world, having survived the conflict, is just as fucked up as it was to begin with.

I won't say i loved everything about how TFL ends, but i was satisfied with it in that context, for the most part.

Quote

I didn't like BSC (Abyss, I will fight you!) as I felt like the lead is SUPER irredeemable and dickish....this should have been THE LIMEY in fantasy form, but the protagonist was a reprehensible jerk.

Hey, that's your stupid wrong opinion and you're stupid and wrong entitled to go listen to your Taylor Swift CDs and stop bothering us with it. I would argue that there was more to the lead than those qualities, and moreover, i really enjoyed that she did have those qualities.

Quote

And THE HEROES is where I checked out of the main series of books, as I found the violence and gore in that on so far over the top into cartoonishness. By like page 100 I was sick to my stomach and was given no reason to read on and find out why.

Yah, that either works for you or it doesn't and also youre stupid and wrong so who cares what you think. There's certainly no missing that the book is violent as fuck.

Quote

I liked his YA attempt with HALF A KING more than any of his other work, but I'm not chomping at the bit to finish them.

I enjoyed them, thought they were likely his best work to date aside from maybe RED COUNTRY which was a glorious Western-Fantasy lit mashup. I'd say they're worth finishing, altho given your view of his other work, you may not want to bother since a few elements do reappear, albeit JA raises his game and does better with them, i think. They may be marketed as YA but there is very very little YA about them other than a lack of sex and less graphic violence than his First Law related books.

Quote

For my money, Mark Lawrence is out there doing what Abercrombie claims to set out to do....but Lawrence delivers. And in spades.

I like JA, but coming off of RED QUEEN'S WAR i love Mark's work on a whole other level.

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 14 November 2018 - 06:19 PM, said:

I like JA, but coming off of RED QUEEN'S WAR i love Mark's work on a whole other level.

To me RED QUEENS WAR is his masterpiece. I could re-read that series forever.

[Andorion]

Mentalist, on 14 November 2018 - 06:15 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 14 November 2018 - 05:23 PM, said:

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 14 November 2018 - 04:57 PM, said:

I'm so happy other people didn't like FIRST LAW. It was sold to me on "but he subverts ALL the expectations!" and I'll admit I didn't finish the first book. I gave up half way through when I got sick of waiting for the subversion to start and the generic boring cut and paste standard fantasy to end.

I have occasionally wondered if I'd missed a trick through impatience.... seems likely that wasn't the case.

I'll add my voice to this. While I like First Law...I kept wanting for things to happen when interesting plot points would open up....and then Abercrombie would (like Rian goddamn Johnson) just kill them dead for his subversions leaving the story or characters in tatters needing picked up in the next volume...which was a waste of time. It wasn't until I read the last book in the series that I felt like I'd been fleeced with the promise of interesting subversions. The ending of that book makes me unreasonably angry. I didn't like BSC (Abyss, I will fight you!) as I felt like the lead is SUPER irredeemable and dickish....this should have been THE LIMEY in fantasy form, but the protagonist was a reprehensible jerk. And THE HEROES is where I checked out of the main series of books, as I found the violence and gore in that on so far over the top into cartoonishness. By like page 100 I was sick to my stomach and was given no reason to read on and find out why.

I liked his YA attempt with HALF A KING more than any of his other work, but I'm not chomping at the bit to finish them.

For my money, Mark Lawrence is out there doing what Abercrombie claims to set out to do....but Lawrence delivers. And in spades.

Counterpoint: BSC is fantasy "Count of Monte Christo" with a grimdark twist (and awesome).

While Broken Empire pins everything on how messed up Jorg is, and that gets tedious quick. The backstory and worldbuilding's nice and interesting to puzzle together, but the story is mediocre.
The second trilo is hilarious though.

Edit: I also read the Mistborn trilo all at once (because I picked up the box set in a sale), so my experience would differ from people reading them separately.

BSC was fantastic till about 60% into the book. And then his need to subvert destroyed the book.

Spoiler

The super-skilled poisoner turned into an idiotic buffoon literally overnight.