[amphibian]

Andorion, on 06 August 2018 - 12:40 AM, said:

amphibian, on 05 August 2018 - 07:40 PM, said:

Andorion, on 05 August 2018 - 02:54 PM, said:

Gabriele, on 05 August 2018 - 02:03 PM, said:

Andorion, on 05 August 2018 - 11:47 AM, said:

Finished Redemption Blade by Tchaikovsky. Really quite good.

Also I read Naamah's Curse by Jacqueline Carey - decidedly below average. I have no idea why Carey gets so much praise - I have read three books by her now and they are decidedly mediocre.

The Naamah trilogy is mediocre. Her Kushiel books are much better, esp. the first trilogy. I couldn't warm up to her latest, either.

You mean Starless? That book was so strange - a trilogy squished into a book and the last half felt so random

Andorion - you read a lot of people here telling you that you were missing a bunch of meaning and context by not reading the Kushiel books first before getting into the sequels and then went ahead, doing the same thing.

Why?

That's because I read the first book and thought I might as well finish the series. But I doubt how much this has to do with not knowing context. Some things are just bad writing.

For example - passive character, who was pretty active and interesting in the last book just became passive - almost classic Damsel in Distress except the character was male.

Secondly all the events and plot were pushed forward by some kind of "destiny" of the main protagonist which apparently gave her urges. This felt like reading the actions of puppets.

There were also other things - like a very insipid excuse for rape, an entire section of the book which was pretty pointless in the context of the book - I hope it matters in the context of the series, and just a weak story in general.

As for Starless, which I read in June, I don't see how that had anything to do with Kushiel, given that its a standalone, set in an entirely different universe.

Go back and read the Kushiel stuff. I do agree that the Moirin books are weaker, but it makes zero sense to continue to read the series out of order when the latter books are heavily based on what went before.

[Gabriele]

amphibian, on 06 August 2018 - 01:10 PM, said:

Andorion, on 06 August 2018 - 12:40 AM, said:

amphibian, on 05 August 2018 - 07:40 PM, said:

Andorion, on 05 August 2018 - 02:54 PM, said:

Gabriele, on 05 August 2018 - 02:03 PM, said:

Andorion, on 05 August 2018 - 11:47 AM, said:

Finished Redemption Blade by Tchaikovsky. Really quite good.

Also I read Naamah's Curse by Jacqueline Carey - decidedly below average. I have no idea why Carey gets so much praise - I have read three books by her now and they are decidedly mediocre.

The Naamah trilogy is mediocre. Her Kushiel books are much better, esp. the first trilogy. I couldn't warm up to her latest, either.

You mean Starless? That book was so strange - a trilogy squished into a book and the last half felt so random

Andorion - you read a lot of people here telling you that you were missing a bunch of meaning and context by not reading the Kushiel books first before getting into the sequels and then went ahead, doing the same thing.

Why?

That's because I read the first book and thought I might as well finish the series. But I doubt how much this has to do with not knowing context. Some things are just bad writing.

For example - passive character, who was pretty active and interesting in the last book just became passive - almost classic Damsel in Distress except the character was male.

Secondly all the events and plot were pushed forward by some kind of "destiny" of the main protagonist which apparently gave her urges. This felt like reading the actions of puppets.

There were also other things - like a very insipid excuse for rape, an entire section of the book which was pretty pointless in the context of the book - I hope it matters in the context of the series, and just a weak story in general.

As for Starless, which I read in June, I don't see how that had anything to do with Kushiel, given that its a standalone, set in an entirely different universe.

Go back and read the Kushiel stuff. I do agree that the Moirin books are weaker, but it makes zero sense to continue to read the series out of order when the latter books are heavily based on what went before.

Carey isn't a writer to appeal to everyone. I really liked her first Kushiel trilogy, enjoyed the second well enough, but gave up on the Moirin books. Never read her take on Caliban since that's one of the few Shakespeare play I don't care about. Starless was a toad disguising as unkissed frog. I also liked her Sundering duology, but that one only works for Silmarillion fans, I think.

[Andorion]

amphibian, on 06 August 2018 - 01:10 PM, said:

Andorion, on 06 August 2018 - 12:40 AM, said:

amphibian, on 05 August 2018 - 07:40 PM, said:

Andorion, on 05 August 2018 - 02:54 PM, said:

Gabriele, on 05 August 2018 - 02:03 PM, said:

Andorion, on 05 August 2018 - 11:47 AM, said:

Finished Redemption Blade by Tchaikovsky. Really quite good.

Also I read Naamah's Curse by Jacqueline Carey - decidedly below average. I have no idea why Carey gets so much praise - I have read three books by her now and they are decidedly mediocre.

The Naamah trilogy is mediocre. Her Kushiel books are much better, esp. the first trilogy. I couldn't warm up to her latest, either.

You mean Starless? That book was so strange - a trilogy squished into a book and the last half felt so random

Andorion - you read a lot of people here telling you that you were missing a bunch of meaning and context by not reading the Kushiel books first before getting into the sequels and then went ahead, doing the same thing.

Why?

That's because I read the first book and thought I might as well finish the series. But I doubt how much this has to do with not knowing context. Some things are just bad writing.

For example - passive character, who was pretty active and interesting in the last book just became passive - almost classic Damsel in Distress except the character was male.

Secondly all the events and plot were pushed forward by some kind of "destiny" of the main protagonist which apparently gave her urges. This felt like reading the actions of puppets.

There were also other things - like a very insipid excuse for rape, an entire section of the book which was pretty pointless in the context of the book - I hope it matters in the context of the series, and just a weak story in general.

As for Starless, which I read in June, I don't see how that had anything to do with Kushiel, given that its a standalone, set in an entirely different universe.

Go back and read the Kushiel stuff. I do agree that the Moirin books are weaker, but it makes zero sense to continue to read the series out of order when the latter books are heavily based on what went before.

How heavily based? So far it seems like there is a fairly large time gap and I don't think there are any shared characters.

Gabriele, on 06 August 2018 - 04:44 PM, said:

amphibian, on 06 August 2018 - 01:10 PM, said:

Andorion, on 06 August 2018 - 12:40 AM, said:

amphibian, on 05 August 2018 - 07:40 PM, said:

Andorion, on 05 August 2018 - 02:54 PM, said:

Gabriele, on 05 August 2018 - 02:03 PM, said:

Andorion, on 05 August 2018 - 11:47 AM, said:

Finished Redemption Blade by Tchaikovsky. Really quite good.

Also I read Naamah's Curse by Jacqueline Carey - decidedly below average. I have no idea why Carey gets so much praise - I have read three books by her now and they are decidedly mediocre.

The Naamah trilogy is mediocre. Her Kushiel books are much better, esp. the first trilogy. I couldn't warm up to her latest, either.

You mean Starless? That book was so strange - a trilogy squished into a book and the last half felt so random

Andorion - you read a lot of people here telling you that you were missing a bunch of meaning and context by not reading the Kushiel books first before getting into the sequels and then went ahead, doing the same thing.

Why?

That's because I read the first book and thought I might as well finish the series. But I doubt how much this has to do with not knowing context. Some things are just bad writing.

For example - passive character, who was pretty active and interesting in the last book just became passive - almost classic Damsel in Distress except the character was male.

Secondly all the events and plot were pushed forward by some kind of "destiny" of the main protagonist which apparently gave her urges. This felt like reading the actions of puppets.

There were also other things - like a very insipid excuse for rape, an entire section of the book which was pretty pointless in the context of the book - I hope it matters in the context of the series, and just a weak story in general.

As for Starless, which I read in June, I don't see how that had anything to do with Kushiel, given that its a standalone, set in an entirely different universe.

Go back and read the Kushiel stuff. I do agree that the Moirin books are weaker, but it makes zero sense to continue to read the series out of order when the latter books are heavily based on what went before.

Carey isn't a writer to appeal to everyone. I really liked her first Kushiel trilogy, enjoyed the second well enough, but gave up on the Moirin books. Never read her take on Caliban since that's one of the few Shakespeare play I don't care about. Starless was a toad disguising as unkissed frog. I also liked her Sundering duology, but that one only works for Silmarillion fans, I think.

Could you tell me in what ways Kushiel is better than Moirin? More action oriented? Better characters?

[Gabriele]

Andorion, on 06 August 2018 - 04:50 PM, said:

Could you tell me in what ways Kushiel is better than Moirin? More action oriented? Better characters?

Phèdre and Joscelin are more active than Moirin and the male MC whose name I forgot. Judging from the part of the Naamah books I read, yes, the Kushiel books, esp. the first trilogy, have more action and better intrigues. And an interesting 'bad girl', plus an assortment of interesting secondary characters. Just get over the 'training montage' of the first chapters (and the training is not your average Fantasy stuff, just saying ). Once the intrigues take off and Phèdre gets thrown in the middle of the fun, things start moving quite nicely, imho.

Imriel (the lead of the second trilogy) starts off a bit whiny, but grows, and a number of the characters from the first trilogy are still around (including Phèdre and Joscelin). The Naamah trilogy takes place several generations later, so there is no need to read it in order to get a conclusion of the tale.

This post has been edited by Gabriele: 07 August 2018 - 03:37 PM

[amphibian]

The Moirin books are heavily based on what went before in theme and in "emotional context". In terms of actual nuts and bolts, not that related, which is probably why it's coming off very strange to you beyond just the objectionable content.

[Salt-Man Z]

In non-Carey-related news...

I've been on a bit of a Seanan McGuire kick lately. First I read Dusk or Dark or Dawn or Day, which was nicely-enough written, but for whatever reason I was never able to buy in to the premise and the way ghosts/time/witches work in the book's world. Certainly decent enough for a cheap price.

Then I read Into the Drowning Deep (written under her pseudonym Mira Grant) which I could not put down. "Science vessel hunts killer mermaids" is a good 5-word synopsis, and I loved it from start to finish.

In the next night or two, I will be finishing up her Indexing, which is a kind of urban fantasy about a covert government team trying to keep fairy tale narratives from intruding into the real world. It's fantastic; the concept is great, and McGuire really kicks things up a notch around the halfway point. There's a sequel out that I'll be reading next.

[worry]

Glad you're making it. It has a pretty good finale, all in all.

[Abyss]

Salt-Man Z, on 07 August 2018 - 12:12 AM, said:

...
Then I read Into the Drowning Deep (written under her pseudonym Mira Grant) which I could not put down. "Science vessel hunts killer mermaids" is a good 5-word synopsis, and I loved it from start to finish.

In the next night or two, I will be finishing up her Indexing, which is a kind of urban fantasy about a covert government team trying to keep fairy tale narratives from intruding into the real world. It's fantastic; the concept is great, and McGuire really kicks things up a notch around the halfway point. There's a sequel out that I'll be reading next.

DEEP’s been high on the TRP for some time, I think you just bumped it up. Will consider INDEXING if I like.

About halfway into Stephen Baxter’s authorized WAR OF THE WORLDS sequel, THE MASSACRE OF MANKIND. I like the main story well enough, but when he draws too much on the original book it just reminds me why the HG Wells book was always my least favorite version of that story, after the radio play/hoax and the original movie.

[Tsundoku]

Abyss, on 07 August 2018 - 04:01 AM, said:

About halfway into Stephen Baxter’s authorized WAR OF THE WORLDS sequel, THE MASSACRE OF MANKIND. I like the main story well enough, but when he draws too much on the original book it just reminds me why the HG Wells book was always my least favorite version of that story, after the radio play/hoax and the original movie.

How about this?



DUN DUN DUNNNNNNN!

Apparently "they" said the chances of anything coming from Mars, are a million to one ...

EDIT: about 2/3 of the way through The Prophecy Con and enjoying it. One quite original bit I very much like is the news puppets. Dragon, Griffon and Manticore represent the main political parties and distribute news as a sort of public conversation puppet panel show.

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 07 August 2018 - 10:20 AM

[Gabriele]

Briar King, on 06 August 2018 - 05:39 PM, said:

It’s like I’m reading novel keeping up with this page

You're right. I went back and edited that whole quotation stuff out of my last reply to the Carey topic. Makes for an easier read.

This post has been edited by Gabriele: 07 August 2018 - 03:38 PM

[Abyss]

Tsundoku, on 07 August 2018 - 08:32 AM, said:

... 2/3 of the way through The Prophecy Con and enjoying it. One quite original bit I very much like is the news puppets. Dragon, Griffon and Manticore represent the main political parties and distribute news as a sort of public conversation puppet panel show.

Glad you like. You’re going to love bk 3.

[worry]

Finished Hyperion and I really liked it. I'm a sucker for stories that follow the Canterbury Tales formula, and Simmons really took full advantage of it to accomplish a variety of genre fusions. Horror, detective fiction, family drama, romance, etc. it's all there.
Since somebody asked earlier, my favorite pilgrim/story was:

Spoiler

Sol Weintraub, who is the Scholar or "the Wandering Jew". Absolutely pitch perfect, heartbreaking stuff.

But tbh, all of the first three stories managed to catch me off guard too. The Priest, the Soldier, and the Poet. Each built to shocking, effective, gut-lurching crescendos. The last two stories, the Detective and the Consul, didn't tick my personal boxes as much, but I still liked them and got how they contributed to the overall narrative. And I have to say, the Shrike could have been cheesy -- like if you just summarized it, it's a monster a kid could come up with -- but I have to say with the religiosity, the time-travel element, and the random but real threat it poses, Simmons manages to keep the Shrike genuinely scary. Like the Predator meets T-1000 meets Freddy Krueger at his best.

Now onto The Judging Eye by Arse Caught Bakker.

[Mentalist]

Since the weekend was mostly drunken haze, broken up by periods of time spent at the beach or on a boat, no reading got done.

As such, I only finished "The worm Oroborous" tonight.

It was an interesting read, and I can certainly see where the "this was inspiration for Tolkien" thing comes from.

I'm not sure I really buy the whole

Spoiler

the protagonists exist purely for joys of war and with all enemies vanquished there is no joy left in their world

thing in the end there, but there were some pretty epic battles in the second half of the book, which I quite liked. I might look up a preview for the first book in the Zimiamvia trilo to see how it links up with "Worm" , but definitely not in any hurry to read them.

Starting tomorrow, it's gonna be "Lord of the Silent Kingdom" as the next commute book. Not sure about home read yet.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

On to Skin Game

Spoiler

Given I've read the whole series back to back, all the minor irritations tend to build up, including the portrayal of the majority of the female characters.

I forgot how maddeningly annoying Hannah Ascher is. She's every single one of those irritations in one person.

[Serenity]

Abyss, on 07 August 2018 - 04:01 AM, said:

it just reminds me why the HG Wells book was always my least favorite version of that story, after the radio play/hoax and the original movie.

Whaaaat?????! You mean you like the Cruise movie more than the original novel? That's just wrong in so many ways But then the novel is one of my all time faves I'm really looking forward to the upcoming BBC adaptation and I'm also quite tempted by this new audio version.


I'm just finishing John Wyndham's The Chrysalids, then I might dive into Tchaikovsky's The Bear and the Serpent.

[Aptorian]

Luv2B_Sassy, on 07 August 2018 - 07:47 PM, said:

Finished Hyperion and I really liked it. I'm a sucker for stories that follow the Canterbury Tales formula, and Simmons really took full advantage of it to accomplish a variety of genre fusions. Horror, detective fiction, family drama, romance, etc. it's all there.
Since somebody asked earlier, my favorite pilgrim/story was:

Spoiler

Sol Weintraub, who is the Scholar or "the Wandering Jew". Absolutely pitch perfect, heartbreaking stuff.

But tbh, all of the first three stories managed to catch me off guard too. The Priest, the Soldier, and the Poet. Each built to shocking, effective, gut-lurching crescendos. The last two stories, the Detective and the Consul, didn't tick my personal boxes as much, but I still liked them and got how they contributed to the overall narrative. And I have to say, the Shrike could have been cheesy -- like if you just summarized it, it's a monster a kid could come up with -- but I have to say with the religiosity, the time-travel element, and the random but real threat it poses, Simmons manages to keep the Shrike genuinely scary. Like the Predator meets T-1000 meets Freddy Krueger at his best.

Now onto The Judging Eye by Arse Caught Bakker.

What? How can you not immediately pick up Fall of Hyperion? You need to see the crazy shit that goes down!

[worry]

I like to alternate when I read a series! I'll get to FoH next though, and I get through the Bakker books relatively fast so hopefully that stays true.

[Tiste Simeon]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 08 August 2018 - 06:03 AM, said:

On to Skin Game

Spoiler

Given I've read the whole series back to back, all the minor irritations tend to build up, including the portrayal of the majority of the female characters.

I forgot how maddeningly annoying Hannah Ascher is. She's every single one of those irritations in one person.

Spoiler

Must be something to do with girls called Hannah... 🙄

[End of Disc One]

Started The Emperor's Blades by Brian Staveley. I'm enjoying it. The writing is quite good and elevates some of the slower sections. It reminds me of Anthony Ryan's Blood Song, but without all of the comma splices. I've heard a lot of complaints about characters making idiotic decisions in this series so I'll brace myself for that.

[QuickTidal]

Re-reading JHEREG by Brust to refresh myself to finally go onto YENDI for the first time and continue this series. Still a great read, and enjoying getting back into the world!