[worry]

You know, I can think of another man in history -- long hair, scraggly facial hair, somewhat disheveled overall -- who had crazy ideas that some people might have called "pretentious". There's even a book full of those ideas that some folks just don't take a liking to.

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

worry, on 05 January 2018 - 09:12 PM, said:

You know, I can think of another man in history -- long hair, scraggly facial hair, somewhat disheveled overall -- who had crazy ideas that some people might have called "pretentious". There's even a book full of those ideas that some folks just don't take a liking to.

And that man was...Albert Einstein!





Hey, it actually works here.

[Abyss]

worry, on 05 January 2018 - 09:12 PM, said:

You know, I can think of another man in history -- long hair, scraggly facial hair, somewhat disheveled overall -- who had crazy ideas that some people might have called "pretentious". There's even a book full of those ideas that some folks just don't take a liking to.

If Jesus Christ was real, alive today, and had a twitter feed, he would have less followers than the lowest Kardashian.

[Andorion]

Reading The Language of Power in the Steerswoman series by Rosemary Kirstein. I think its a bit of a shame that this series is not more widely known. Slow build, but absolutely 5 star worldbuilding with great characters. Author does the gradual reveal thing really well.

Also started All the Light We Cannot See.

[worry]

I was talking about

[End of Disc One]

Now that was quite the payoff.

[JPK]

Re: Lonesome Dove. Fuck Blue Duck. I haven't hated a fictional character this much since Pormqual.

[amphibian]

JPK, on 06 January 2018 - 11:22 PM, said:

Re: Lonesome Dove. Fuck Blue Duck. I haven't hated a fictional character this much since Pormqual.

If you can, read the other Lonesome Dove books, especially Comanche Moon.

Blue Duck was a real person, although he had a different life than the books.

[JPK]

amphibian, on 07 January 2018 - 12:17 AM, said:

JPK, on 06 January 2018 - 11:22 PM, said:

Re: Lonesome Dove. Fuck Blue Duck. I haven't hated a fictional character this much since Pormqual.

If you can, read the other Lonesome Dove books, especially Comanche Moon.

Blue Duck was a real person, although he had a different life than the books.

That's actually kind of amazing. It really ties into the conversation between Call and Gus about how the ones like Custer that died are the ones that are likely to be remembered. I will definitely read more works by him in the future though.

[worry]

You should check out thrift shops or library sales. I at least see LD and Streets of Laredo pretty often. Comanche Moon less so, and I'm not sure I've ever seen Dead Man's Walk in the wild.

[Aptorian]

I'm about 32% in to The Delirium Brief by Charless Stross and I have trouble forcing myself to continue.

I absolutely hate the plot. I knew I would when I read the blurb years ago but it's so stupid. The whole premise of the book is that this super powerful, magic secret government - now not secret - organization is being undermined and targetted for privatization by the baddies. But it doesn't work with me because the whole plot is based on the idea that there is nobody in government who understands the role and power of the Laundry and nobody in the Laundry is apparently able to lobby for more, not less, power (Read: Scare the shit out of the politicians).

I keep forcing myself to read another 10-20 pages at a time, because I love the universe, but maaaaan do I not like this. This book better have a serious pay off, IE Raymond Schiller dying in a very gratifying fashion.

[Andorion]

Alternative Goose, on 07 January 2018 - 06:18 AM, said:

I'm about 32% in to The Delirium Brief by Charless Stross and I have trouble forcing myself to continue.

I absolutely hate the plot. I knew I would when I read the blurb years ago but it's so stupid. The whole premise of the book is that this super powerful, magic secret government - now not secret - organization is being undermined and targetted for privatization by the baddies. But it doesn't work with me because the whole plot is based on the idea that there is nobody in government who understands the role and power of the Laundry and nobody in the Laundry is apparently able to lobby for more, not less, power (Read: Scare the shit out of the politicians).

I keep forcing myself to read another 10-20 pages at a time, because I love the universe, but maaaaan do I not like this. This book better have a serious pay off, IE Raymond Schiller dying in a very gratifying fashion.

Consider that the Laundry has been weakened and is under a lot of strain and scrutiny at this point. Their leverage is at an all time low.

[Tsundoku]

Started American Gods. Let's see what all the fuss is about.

[Aptorian]

Andorion, on 07 January 2018 - 07:09 AM, said:

Alternative Goose, on 07 January 2018 - 06:18 AM, said:

I'm about 32% in to The Delirium Brief by Charless Stross and I have trouble forcing myself to continue.

I absolutely hate the plot. I knew I would when I read the blurb years ago but it's so stupid. The whole premise of the book is that this super powerful, magic secret government - now not secret - organization is being undermined and targetted for privatization by the baddies. But it doesn't work with me because the whole plot is based on the idea that there is nobody in government who understands the role and power of the Laundry and nobody in the Laundry is apparently able to lobby for more, not less, power (Read: Scare the shit out of the politicians).

I keep forcing myself to read another 10-20 pages at a time, because I love the universe, but maaaaan do I not like this. This book better have a serious pay off, IE Raymond Schiller dying in a very gratifying fashion.

Consider that the Laundry has been weakened and is under a lot of strain and scrutiny at this point. Their leverage is at an all time low.

Doesn't matter. The fuck up that caused 9000+ people to die and billions of pounds of damage should have been used to get MUCH more funding and authority, not less.

All it would realistically had took to secure their power was a complete debrief for select members of the parliament showing them 3 things: 1. The Chithonian undersea people whom the laundry keeps a very, very sensitive diplomatic relationship with so that they don't kill the human race. 2. Open a portal to the realms where the Frost Giant exists or The Sleeper in the Pyramid. Explain to them that these are just 2 of X number of known world ending threats that the Laundry monitors and discourages. 3. demonstrate just how much destruction/influence just one mathemagical practitioner has at his disposal. Explain to them that any one of the laundry's senior staff is at the least as dangerous as a Cyber attack and an Abrams Tank in one or at worst a full scale Nuclear apocalypse. EDIT: 4. Not to mention the fucking SCORPION STARE program that is basically a nation wide death ray system... you want that to be handled by an outsourced call centre in India?

This isn't like privatizing public transport or prisons. This is the equivalent of outsourcing the Britains military, it's intelligence network and it's nuclear arsenal at once. To call this implausible and irresponsible is an incredible understatement.

And all of this is predicated upon the politicians being short sighted, publicity driven, political animals. Which fails to take into account that in any government, there are people within the system, who make sure that politicians don't fuck up this seriously. The reason why this is happening in the book, is that everything is written from this quaint rigid British bureaucratic perspective, where the Laundry is entirely bound by rules and regulations. Which was fine while they were trying to stay secret. What with magic becoming public there should immediately had been closed door meetings where all the real threats that Britain faces would have been outlined and the meeting ending with the Laundry demanding complete autonomy and a trillion pounds in funding.

Hell, they should be doing unsanctioned assassinations of politicians if it was needed. This is "end of the world" stuff we're talking about here.

EDIT: Actually, the more I think about it... I am wondering if there is some kind of treachery from within? How is the Laundry this bad at guarding its political support? Hmmm... That Senior Auditor has been acting pretty fishy. I will consider this a reason for the Laundry's ineptitude for now.

This post has been edited by Alternative Goose: 07 January 2018 - 11:08 AM

[amphibian]

There are a number of things preventing that, Apt: the oath, the actual desire to stay mostly out of the bureaucracy for most of them (can't win the game if you don't play), and in the real world, the US and the UK have outsourcing for intelligence and military (Palantir, Blackwater, Triple Canopy etc). All of this is very believable.

[Aptorian]

Yes, there is the oath. I'm another 20% or so into the book and Stross is emphasizing the oath. In the wake of the events in the books the various agents scramble to re-assert the oath. It seems to revert back to the... crown now? Or something. Certainly explains why there are limitations to the Laundry's move-set. But doesn't explain their political squeamishness, beyond old habits.

And there is a difference between outsourcing some tasks and throwing the whole system out whole sale. You can be damn certain the CIA and who ever else has things in place that ensure they don't get fucked over this easily.

I'm also curious about this mention of "The Board". I don't remember them. What the hell have they been doing. Are they even scarier than Mahogany Row? Or are they just various members of Mahogany Row we don't hear about? So many questions. It's dangerous to go years between books in a somewhat complicated series.

This post has been edited by Alternative Goose: 07 January 2018 - 05:48 PM

[Mentalist]

Finished Vellum

Not sure I like it, but I definitely want to read Ink to see how this story ends. Go figure.

Gonna start Deadhouse Landing next, and once I finish Stealer's War tomorrow, that'll probably become a commute book as well.

[Aptorian]

Vellum. I remember being so enamoured with the concept of that book that I went out and bought both Vellum and Ink based on the blurb alone. Never got more than a hundred pages into the first book I think. I wanted to like it, it was so ambitious and weird but I just did not care for the actual narrative.

I wonder if I would appreciate it more now a days... hmm.

Does all that heaven and hell stuff actually pay off in the end?

[Mentalist]

That's what I want to know. Vellum ends with everything appearing to get messed up beyond anyone's control, with glimpses of a very unhappy future after the end. But I'm not sure if that's actually gonna happen or not.

I think I'm gonna order Ink probably with my next paycheck.

[polishgenius]

Mentalist, on 07 January 2018 - 11:33 PM, said:

That's what I want to know. Vellum ends with everything appearing to get messed up beyond anyone's control, with glimpses of a very unhappy future after the end. But I'm not sure if that's actually gonna happen or not.

I think I'm gonna order Ink probably with my next paycheck.

I absolutely guarentee that you haven't got a hope of guessing what happens next.


I have to say, with Vellum, the first read while I enjoyed it didn't make a lot of sense to me. It was on the second read (preparing for Ink, after about a year's delay reading it) that everything came together and I absolutely loved it.



On Apt's question... kinda sorta? I mean, the blurb isn't lying, but it's majorly obfuscating what the book is actually about- though to be fair what actually happens would be almost impossible to blurb.
I'll say, there definitely is a payoff, but it isn't the heaven-hell war that the blurb would lead you to believe. (spoiler very broad, but just in case)

Spoiler

It's considerably more apocalyptic than that.