[QuickTidal]

amphibian, on 15 April 2026 - 01:46 PM, said:

The current American leadership and a good chunk of the military hold very real grudges against Iran for these specific things and when the current leaders of the Israeli government do what they did, it becomes an easier "Yes" for the Americans to do what they do precisely because of that somewhat recent history.

I agree with this. I'm very much of the mind that this was an Israeli op that finally got their bedfellow involved after asking for decades...

Abyss, on 15 April 2026 - 01:46 PM, said:

The Iranian Revolutionary Guard has been actively funding terrorist orgs for decades, well before their last round of killing protestors. This is bad vs worse.

Right but why does the IRGC exist? Why did the Shah exist? And who was responsible? And why?

That's my point. We can trace ALLL of this back to the USA and foreign policy.

It's US-made bad VS US-made worse.

[Grief]

The IRGC suck but if our standard for justifiable war is going to be "has funded terrorism" then the US doesn't have much of a leg to stand on. It's hardly been above funding what it would politely call insurgent militia groups.

There are a lot of horrible governments around the world. The more that starts being fair grounds for invasion the less hope there is to maintain a reasonable set of international norms and slow nuclear proliferation.

[Maark Abbott]

Iran is definitely not the aggressor in this instance and the evidence for that is that they were signatory to the treaties and deals Obama put in place.

Trump, as a raging racist, could not abide that the issue had been largely solved by a black man, so tore those treaties up and started dropping bombs.

Suggesting Iran started this conflict is like saying Ukraine launched the first missile when Russia invaded them. It's just not consistent with what's happened.

[QuickTidal]

[Abyss]

Maark Abbott, on 16 April 2026 - 07:40 AM, said:

Iran is definitely not the aggressor in this instance and the evidence for that is that they were signatory to the treaties and deals Obama put in place.

Trump, as a raging racist, could not abide that the issue had been largely solved by a black man, so tore those treaties up and started dropping bombs.

Suggesting Iran started this conflict is like saying Ukraine launched the first missile when Russia invaded them. It's just not consistent with what's happened.

Iran didn't exactly help itself by killing protestors.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Abyss, on 16 April 2026 - 01:28 PM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 16 April 2026 - 07:40 AM, said:

Iran is definitely not the aggressor in this instance and the evidence for that is that they were signatory to the treaties and deals Obama put in place.

Trump, as a raging racist, could not abide that the issue had been largely solved by a black man, so tore those treaties up and started dropping bombs.

Suggesting Iran started this conflict is like saying Ukraine launched the first missile when Russia invaded them. It's just not consistent with what's happened.

Iran didn't exactly help itself by killing protestors.

... oh right, all those protestors it killed in the United States... did Trump ever thank them for that?

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 16 April 2026 - 01:59 PM

[Tiste Simeon]

I mean I don't think the US needs Iran's help killing American protestors...

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 16 April 2026 - 01:28 PM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 16 April 2026 - 07:40 AM, said:

Iran is definitely not the aggressor in this instance and the evidence for that is that they were signatory to the treaties and deals Obama put in place.

Trump, as a raging racist, could not abide that the issue had been largely solved by a black man, so tore those treaties up and started dropping bombs.

Suggesting Iran started this conflict is like saying Ukraine launched the first missile when Russia invaded them. It's just not consistent with what's happened.

Iran didn't exactly help itself by killing protestors.

I agree this was bad, but what business is it of the US's? I think that's the overall point. Who made the USA the world police? Are we deciding to go into countries where states kill the innocent and war with them? Cause Israel has been doing that shit since the 1940's. Seems like an arbitrarily applied rule for who is is free game when they kill innocents...

Secondary point: If the USA saw what the USA was doing to citizens of the USA on US soil, the USA would go into the USA and liberate the USA from the USA in the name of "freedom".

[the broken]

Grief, on 15 April 2026 - 08:56 PM, said:

The IRGC suck but if our standard for justifiable war is going to be "has funded terrorism" then the US doesn't have much of a leg to stand on. It's hardly been above funding what it would politely call insurgent militia groups.

There are a lot of horrible governments around the world. The more that starts being fair grounds for invasion the less hope there is to maintain a reasonable set of international norms and slow nuclear proliferation.

That ship sailed with Afghanistan.

[Macros]

I never thought I'd say this, but good man the Pope, one of the few people who can say what he thinks about the oligarchs and tyrants and actually does it.

This is not a support or vindication of the church by any means, just refreshing to see someone publicly slap thos twats

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 15 April 2026 - 02:39 PM, said:

...
Right but why does the IRGC exist? Why did the Shah exist? And who was responsible? And why?

Not sure i follow... the US backed the Shah since the 50s, the Ayatollahs were supported by the USSR in the 1979 revolution.

QuickTidal, on 16 April 2026 - 02:46 PM, said:

Abyss, on 16 April 2026 - 01:28 PM, said:

Iran didn't exactly help itself by killing protestors.

I agree this was bad, but what business is it of the US's? I think that's the overall point. Who made the USA the world police? Are we deciding to go into countries where states kill the innocent and war with them? Cause Israel has been doing that shit since the 1940's. Seems like an arbitrarily applied rule for who is is free game when they kill innocents...
...

The 'what business is it of the US' question is a good one. There's a long history of foreign intervention for profit draped in 'liberating the people'. It's completely driven by motives other than the goodness of anyone's hearts.

Iran are attempting, with some success, to characterize itself as 'the good guys' in this conflict. They are anything but. Unfortunately even if the US managed some form of regime change out of self-interest, history points to that as the next step to disaster.

[Abyss]

Macros, on 16 April 2026 - 07:02 PM, said:

I never thought I'd say this, but good man the Pope, one of the few people who can say what he thinks about the oligarchs and tyrants and actually does it.

This is not a support or vindication of the church by any means, just refreshing to see someone publicly slap thos twats

I keep looking for the outrage over this, but there seems to be far more 'the Pope is right' than 'Trump is wrong'.

[Cause]

 Abyss, on 16 April 2026 - 07:19 PM, said:

 Macros, on 16 April 2026 - 07:02 PM, said:

I never thought I'd say this, but good man the Pope, one of the few people who can say what he thinks about the oligarchs and tyrants and actually does it.

This is not a support or vindication of the church by any means, just refreshing to see someone publicly slap thos twats

I keep looking for the outrage over this, but there seems to be far more 'the Pope is right' than 'Trump is wrong'.

Not sure how anyone could say the pope is wrong in this instance. Unfortunately the Catholic Church either discovers its morality about 50-500 years too late or uses its power as the largest most powerful church on earth to do well nothing.

Trump doubling down on his fight with the pope like he is running to be the governor of Michigan or something (he is weak on crime apparently), while simultaneously suggesting he thought the ai photo of him laying on hands (which glowed) was just representing him as a doctor would be funny if it didn’t mean the leader of the free world was suffering advanced dementia.

Hegseth also during this weeks Christian sermon at the White House read the made up scripture that Samuel l Jackson reads in pulp fiction. This whole administration is cringe

This post has been edited by Cause: 16 April 2026 - 08:40 PM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Cause, on 16 April 2026 - 08:37 PM, said:

Not sure how anyone could say the pope is wrong in this instance. Unfortunately the Catholic Church either discovers its morality about 50-500 years too late or uses its power as the largest most powerful church on earth to do well nothing.

Trump doubling down on his fight with the pope like he is running to be the governor of Michigan or something (he is weak on crime apparently), while simultaneously suggesting he thought the ai photo of him laying on hands (which glowed) was just representing him as a doctor would be funny if it didn't mean the leader of the free world was suffering advanced dementia.

And Trump's actually been getting blowback from MAGA Christians for both of those.

Quote

when Trump posted the AI image of himself dressed in flowing robes, surrounded by a heavenly glow while healing a sick man, he alienated the one group of Americans that has rarely left his side: Christian conservatives. The picture, declared the Daily Wire reporter Megan Basham, was “OUTRAGEOUS blasphemy.” Joel Webbon, a far-right pastor who believes that women should be stripped of their right to vote, concluded that Trump is “currently demon possessed.” Riley Gaines, an anti-trans activist who has appeared at Trump rallies and whom the president has previously called a “tremendous athlete,” wrote that “God shall not be mocked.”

https://www.theatlan...-prices/686819/

That demon called demontia?..

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 16 April 2026 - 07:04 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 15 April 2026 - 02:39 PM, said:

...
Right but why does the IRGC exist? Why did the Shah exist? And who was responsible? And why?

Not sure i follow... the US backed the Shah since the 50s, the Ayatollahs were supported by the USSR in the 1979 revolution.

Without the US intervention with Mossadegh (Pre-Shah), NONE of this occurs. There's no Shah, no Russia involvement, and no Islamic revolution. A democratically elected leader deigned to suggest that Iran should make money off its oil for its own people, and the US spazzed and created ALL this...so it's a little rich for Cause to suggest that Iran is being provocative when for all intents and purposes this whole situation is the US's fault, and never mind that things were heading in the right direction with Obama and any threat of "nuclear" type was long gone...until Trump.

Their treatment/murder of protestors is a seperate thing that does not affect the USA, and is not a world issue as far as I'm concerned, when the US won't hold other nations accountable for the same and worse. Iran is only free game because "oil" and "Israel said pretty please"?

QuickTidal, on 16 April 2026 - 02:46 PM, said:

Iran are attempting, with some success, to characterize itself as 'the good guys' in this conflict. They are anything but. Unfortunately even if the US managed some form of regime change out of self-interest, history points to that as the next step to disaster.

Since the people who started this are Israel and the USA, they kind of are? Like we don't have to deep dive into who they are as a country to tell the USA and Israel "Hey, maybe don't attack this nation for no reason by pretending they have a nuclear weapon (Israel's been saying this since I was 3) or that you care at all about the freedom of their protestors" because I'm not buying it. Nevermind that terror groups like Hezbollah keep Netanyahu "at war" so he can't be dragged to The Hague to answer for his decades as a bloodthirsty monster. Remember this man who bolstered Hamas for YEARS to drive a wedge between Abbas (Palestinian Authority) in the West Bank and power in Gaza...he's been using "terror groups" for decades for his own advantage...I don't think he gets to cry wolf when the leopard finally bites him.

Secondly, If we want to talk about Iran funding terror groups or attacking/killing protestors, there's a lot of other countries who do this and pretend they don't, so are we going after them all?

[Tiste Simeon]

I think that really the difference between the bad leaders of these countries that the US destabilises and the bad leaders in the US is the obviousness of the violence. The US does violence through capitalism, mass media propaganda and shadow operations. The others do it in a more traditional way...

[the broken]

Lots of countries are victims of violence, but it gets weird whenever anyone brings up non US victims of violence and the response is 'but what about the US?'

[QuickTidal]

Tiste Simeon, on 17 April 2026 - 12:19 PM, said:

I think that really the difference between the bad leaders of these countries that the US destabilises and the bad leaders in the US is the obviousness of the violence. The US does violence through capitalism, mass media propaganda and shadow operations. The others do it in a more traditional way...

SO accurate.

Like poor people being kept poor by sheer levels of US capitalism and greed is still violence, just of a different kind, because illness, and deaths WILL result be it from extreme poverty, or starvation, or simply by dint of being low enough on the pole to fall into a bad situation.

Explaining to countries with socialized medicine that the US claims to be super free and the best country ever...but if you get cancer and you're not rich you're probably going to die is so wild to them.

[QuickTidal]

the broken, on 17 April 2026 - 01:15 PM, said:

Lots of countries are victims of violence, but it gets weird whenever anyone brings up non US victims of violence and the response is 'but what about the US?'

This whole conversation is about the USA...what are you on about?

[amphibian]

 QuickTidal, on 17 April 2026 - 11:48 AM, said:

Without the US intervention with Mossadegh (Pre-Shah), NONE of this occurs. There's no Shah, no Russia involvement, and no Islamic revolution. A democratically elected leader deigned to suggest that Iran should make money off its oil for its own people, and the US spazzed and created ALL this...so it's a little rich for Cause to suggest that Iran is being provocative when for all intents and purposes this whole situation is the US's fault, and never mind that things were heading in the right direction with Obama and any threat of "nuclear" type was long gone...until Trump.

Their treatment/murder of protestors is a seperate thing that does not affect the USA, and is not a world issue as far as I'm concerned, when the US won't hold other nations accountable for the same and worse. Iran is only free game because "oil" and "Israel said pretty please"?

It's my firm thinking that Iran, the very large Shia majority oil producing and controlling nation, would come into significant conflicts with the Wahhabi Gulf states and with the Iraqi regime under Saddam Hussein even without US involvement.

There are not always good forces vs evil forces in a conflict. I can recognize that and still say that this war should not have happened, was conducted horribly, caused senseless deaths, and that the world is going to experience major consequences for a long while because of it.