[Cause]

I feel guilty posting this but the homeless in America make me uncomfortable. I’m no stranger to the homeless coming from South Africa but at the same time living in a city center in the USA maybe it’s just that they are more near.

The homeless in America feel more dangerous, more mentally Ill, more drug addicted or more unclean in a way that the homeless in South Africa were not.

I feel uncomfortable shopping in stores in the USA with so many items under lock and key. I try to avoid fast food places which seem to have a large clientele of the homeless. I once saw a fight breakout between a homeless man and a server behind the counter when they got into an argument about who smokes better quality weed.

I find hostile architecture like benches in the park purposefully designed to prevent comfortable sleeping to be cruel but within block of my apartment in winter you are almost guaranteed to walk past a homeless person sleeping or past out on a manhole cover in the middle of the sidewalk. I don’t judge him for trying to stay warm but I do think it’s a problem to have a city that thinks the easiest thing to do is just ignore a homeless person sprawled in the middle of a walkway.

I don’t like being accosted by people who stand outside the nearly 24 hour cvs by my apartment every time I walk past. The alcoholics who stand outside the nearby bodega hoping to get enough for a drink.

I feel guilty about my wish they were not there since I don’t know how to fix it and I can’t blame people for trying to survive but at the same time I don’t think it’s unreasonable to want to be able to walk 2 blocks without being accosted or having to sidestep a sleeping body.

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

Same. I don't have much more to add — you covered it. They're the result of massive, complex institutional failures at all levels of government.

This post has been edited by Whisperzzzzzzz: 03 January 2023 - 02:33 AM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Cause, on 03 January 2023 - 01:38 AM, said:

I feel guilty posting this but the homeless in America make me uncomfortable. I'm no stranger to the homeless coming from South Africa but at the same time living in a city center in the USA maybe it's just that they are more near.

The homeless in America feel more dangerous, more mentally Ill, more drug addicted or more unclean in a way that the homeless in South Africa were not.

I feel uncomfortable shopping in stores in the USA with so many items under lock and key. I try to avoid fast food places which seem to have a large clientele of the homeless. I once saw a fight breakout between a homeless man and a server behind the counter when they got into an argument about who smokes better quality weed.

I find hostile architecture like benches in the park purposefully designed to prevent comfortable sleeping to be cruel but within block of my apartment in winter you are almost guaranteed to walk past a homeless person sleeping or past out on a manhole cover in the middle of the sidewalk. I don't judge him for trying to stay warm but I do think it's a problem to have a city that thinks the easiest thing to do is just ignore a homeless person sprawled in the middle of a walkway.

I don't like being accosted by people who stand outside the nearly 24 hour cvs by my apartment every time I walk past. The alcoholics who stand outside the nearby bodega hoping to get enough for a drink.

I feel guilty about my wish they were not there since I don't know how to fix it and I can't blame people for trying to survive but at the same time I don't think it's unreasonable to want to be able to walk 2 blocks without being accosted or having to sidestep a sleeping body.

They're rarely dangerous in Philadelphia, but of course you should be wary when you're out.

Eventually most people get used to it. Of course cultivating compassion and redirecting discomfort towards the governmental and societal failure to provide decent shelter (particularly without risk of having their belongings stolen, etc.) are more ethical responses than apathy.

What gets to me a little is having to step over literal shit on the street---for example to go into the subway in Center City. Piss and broken glass on the stairs leading down. Thankfully I've been practicing holding my breath (like I'm diving through the toxic atmospheres...). Dissociation (of various utilitarian types) is of course a useful skill, though it should be balanced by reflection (before and after)....

It's ridiculous that the city's still moving so slowly on providing free public bathrooms, especially where homeless people have been shitting and pissing on the street for lack of them. But some progress should finally be made this year:

'Philadelphia will be installing a "Portland Loo" at 15th and Arch streets at some point in 2023.

The public restroom installation is part of the city's plan to erect a total of six standalone toilets in different parts of the city.'

Philadelphia Is Putting a Standalone Toilet on a Center City Corner. Here's Why

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 03 January 2023 - 02:22 PM

[Lady Bliss]

I had to deal with the homeless problem quite a bit when I was living in the San Francisco area. It’s so sad that so many people are stuck in that situation. I can’t imagine how frightening it must be for some of the mentally ill people to be stuck on the streets without any treatment and possibly not understanding what is going on around them.

[QuickTidal]

We have a homeless issue in Toronto....it's obviously not the level that it tends to be in the States, but it's bad enough.

Part of our issue is that MOST of our homeless population are meth-addicted nutbars (and when I say this, it's because the "meth" they are ingesting has become toxic and causes them to go wildly insane over time <----here is a good writeup as to why) who have no boundaries and have started lashing out and injuring and sometimes even killing people...so finding sympathy for them is hard. Yes, we have a lack of access to mental health paths that might help them out of their addictions, but there is SOME help...that they never want. They get slapped on the wrist for crimes and are back out on the street a day or two later, and won't be removed and REALLY charged till they kill someone (and even then they can get out in a few years if they claim mental health) Our legal system is as much fo a joke as our mental health aid.

So when you really get down to the actually "just homeless" people who aren't hard-drug-addled crazies...those people don't WANT help. My wife frequently helped a local homeless man who lived in and around a bus shelter near our place by giving him food and whatnot...thinking he was harmless. Well we found out that not only is he a really territorial asshole (like you can't wait near the shelter for a bus without him yelling at you), but that he's been offered help with housing more than once by police and special community services and he rejects it because he can get booze on the streets easily and he prefers not ever having to work. So yeah, here's a guy who could be helped...but refuses. According to the same community worker who told us this, this is a VERY common theme in Toronto...being homeless is apparently more palatable than working and rebuilding their life.

I stopped giving money or food or anything years ago when I realized how many of the people I was helping (or trying to help) were on the goddamn take (The Shaky Lady was the tip of the iceberg for this kind of shit)....so now I'll give to organizations who I know help them instead of giving on the street directly.

I would be more amenable to the whole situation if I didn't feel threatened as I walk with my kids home from school because every rando on the street is willing to get in your face and scream or try to assault you. I've lived in the city long enough to become jaded AF about this element. I should have more sympathy. I find I do not.

EDIT: We DO however need better municipal and provincial programs to help the people who want to be helped...voting in Conservative governments will not and never help with that....nor will repeatedly voting in a milquetoast mayor like John Tory who just talks a lot without saying anything. So voter apathy and shitty Conservatives in the pockets of corporations have basically tied my hands.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 03 January 2023 - 03:22 PM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Of course there are some areas of Philadelphia---like Kensington---where violence is more common, and homeless people are more likely to be addicted to heroin or other highly addictive drugs (primarily opioids though). But the homeless may be less likely to have guns (... though sharp objects or bludgeoning instruments are easier to come by...).

City government claims, 'Philadelphia has the lowest number of street homeless per capita of any of the largest cities in the US.'
'stem vent covers have been installed in several spots in the downtown area of 12th Street and Market Street [in Center City] to prevent the homeless from blocking the sidewalk and sleeping on them. [...] Now, we're asking that the Mural Arts Program or similar group paint them so that they are as attractive as possible.'

... that seems pretty shitty if they're not being replaced with easily accessible alternatives.

It's ridiculous that the heat energy is just going to waste. So much for 'capitalist efficiency' (not to mention all that empty office space in Center City... they'd rather let people freeze and shit on the streets).

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 03 January 2023 - 03:51 PM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

QuickTidal, on 03 January 2023 - 03:18 PM, said:

We have a homeless issue in Toronto....it's obviously not the level that it tends to be in the States, but it's bad enough.

Part of our issue is that MOST of our homeless population are meth-addicted nutbars (and when I say this, it's because the "meth" they are ingesting has become toxic and causes them to go wildly insane over time <----here is a good writeup as to why) who have no boundaries and have started lashing out and injuring and sometimes even killing people...so finding sympathy for them is hard. Yes, we have a lack of access to mental health paths that might help them out of their addictions, but there is SOME help...that they never want. They get slapped on the wrist for crimes and are back out on the street a day or two later, and won't be removed and REALLY charged till they kill someone (and even then they can get out in a few years if they claim mental health) Our legal system is as much fo a joke as our mental health aid.

So when you really get down to the actually "just homeless" people who aren't hard-drug-addled crazies...those people don't WANT help. My wife frequently helped a local homeless man who lived in and around a bus shelter near our place by giving him food and whatnot...thinking he was harmless. Well we found out that not only is he a really territorial asshole (like you can't wait near the shelter for a bus without him yelling at you), but that he's been offered help with housing more than once by police and special community services and he rejects it because he can get booze on the streets easily and he prefers not ever having to work. So yeah, here's a guy who could be helped...but refuses. According to the same community worker who told us this, this is a VERY common theme in Toronto...being homeless is apparently more palatable than working and rebuilding their life.

I stopped giving money or food or anything years ago when I realized how many of the people I was helping (or trying to help) were on the goddamn take (The Shaky Lady was the tip of the iceberg for this kind of shit)....so now I'll give to organizations who I know help them instead of giving on the street directly.

I would be more amenable to the whole situation if I didn't feel threatened as I walk with my kids home from school because every rando on the street is willing to get in your face and scream or try to assault you. I've lived in the city long enough to become jaded AF about this element. I should have more sympathy. I find I do not.

EDIT: We DO however need better municipal and provincial programs to help the people who want to be helped...voting in Conservative governments will not and never help with that....nor will repeatedly voting in a milquetoast mayor like John Tory who just talks a lot without saying anything. So voter apathy and shitty Conservatives in the pockets of corporations have basically tied my hands.

Well, they can't all be Mayor... not at the same time anyway. (Of course I don't mean to imply that most violent meth+ addicts are anywhere near as bad as Rob Ford....)

Come to think of it one of my favorite living Canadian musicians is supposedly a meth head who spends a lot of time training to be violent (unfortunately she neglected to behead Elon Musk while he was sleeping... gun by his bed or not).

In a way we've been lucky to have an opioid problem rather than a meth problem. (If the two go together, do the opioids cancel out the meth rage?... Not suggesting that as a remedy of course....)

In all seriousness, it seems like Toronto's flawed shelter system is forcing people to be violent while doing little to address the addiction problem---and kicking them out if they get caught being violent (even if they're only defending themselves).

If Toronto can't even handle creating humane shelters, the odds of the city implementing 'humane' ways to (hopefully temporarily) institutionalize those people refusing to accept shelter and engaging in violent behavior because of drug issues or mental illness seem slim....

'“The shelter system needs to be torn down from the bottom all the way to the top and needs to be reassessed,” [...]

“Everybody should be able to have their own little private space.”

[...] “The slightest accidental jostle and fists are flying and tables are all over the place,” [...] “It’s just insane, but what’s really insane is the randomness _ nothing leads you to see it go off and then all of a sudden there’s this explosion of fury and violence and blood.”'

[...] seen friends knocked out and countless others robbed. He’s lived in fear during much of his time in shelters.

[...] the man in the cot next to his spilled juice all over Cleary’s shoes and sleep apnea machine. As Cleary was cleaning up the mess, the man jumped and choked him, prompting staff to kick them both out.'

‘Explosion of fury and violence and blood,’ Toronto’s shelters see rise in violence

[QuickTidal]

The main problem within the Shelter system in Toronto is indeed that it's regulated poorly, funded even more poorly, and run by a bunch of rich beaurocratic assholes who could care less the nuts and bolts of the daily problems.

Hell, the biggest shelter space in the city is a converted hotel, and as such has the room for personal space for everyone, and it's STILL a massive shitshow of constant fights and insanity. There was a big fire there a few weeks back that shut the whole street down, started by a shelter person who wanted to burn another person to death in their bed. They are doing none of the community and social work required of such institutions....they are just throwing everyone into those spaces and then doing nothing further. Jails are reportedly safer FFS.

Tory and his ilk act like just providing SOME spaces to these people is enough. It's simply not. The Shelter system in the 80's and even there 90's was a million times better, with all the social/mental/security help it needed. After the city Amalgamated in 1998, the whole thing went to hell (an act that happened under the shitty auspices of the worst premier to ever run the province, Mike Fucking Harris....seriously, you can trace EVERY single thing wrong with Ontario back to this one motherfucker...every one, even shit they pin on the Liberals are his fault) an Amalgamation that was WIDELY and almost unanimously rejected at the public level in a referendum that the City Council summarily ignored ...because now the already stretched city funding that used to be just for Metropolitan Toronto had to include and support the Megacity which now included Old Toronto, North York, Etobicoke, City of York, Scarborough, and the borough of East York....imagine adding all that and not upping the funding for services by much. That's what we faced and why even the mayors of the time, including the one who ended up as the first Megacity mayor, vehemently opposed Amalgamation. It was also proven that the "cost savings" that Harris claimed it would create never materialized and more than 20 years later, the whole thing is still a massive failure. Never is that more evident than in social and public systems like the shelter system.

We would be in such a better place if that Amalgamation had never occurred.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 03 January 2023 - 06:27 PM

[Cause]

I am jaded. I dont like it though. In south Africa every street corner has a beggar who will approach the cars when the lights are red and ask for money. You help a few and tune out the rest. In america the homeless are ubiquitous as well but now I dont have the barrier of a car between us. Its face to face and while not all of them by any means there are a few that give me pause. A women who wonders a few block radius and can switch from being quite to raving lunatic at the drop of a hat, a supposed veteran who screamed in my face and almsot spat on me as he walked past me furious that I probably would not spare a dollar for a vet when until he screamed I didnt even know he was a beggar as opposed to just a man walking.

Recently in London, a man tried to get my attention as I walked past. I was practicing my 'notice nothing expression' and walked right past him. I don't know what he wanted but I felt guilty for days for not even trying to find out. I think he didn't have bus fair and by the look of him I don't think he was homeless. It bothers me that I have been conditioned to not get involved. That said the few times I have been caught up in begging schemes have been when my inclination to be polite and stop to help with directions turned out to be rouses to beg for money.

1) A man who tried asking for directions, turned out he wanted direction to a homeless shelter. So I told him of a nearby church I knew. He said he knew that one but it was closed. so I told him another church I knew. The churhces in Philly seem to be the only ones who help. Said he had been there and wouldnt you know it was closed. So I pointed out a nearby police officer, he said they had spoken and he wouldnt help. I will never know the truth for certain but I was certain at this point he had an excuse for every offer of help except cash. So I made my apologies and extricated myself. It was the week after thanksgiving too or near that time I believe which I understand is the busiest volunteer and charity week in the USA so I was also very sceptical that the churches would choose this time to just tell the homeless to fuck off.

2) last night again a man asked for directions and next thing I knew I was looking into his meth teeth (I assume) as he waves his medical papers from Jefferson in my face and his hospital bracelet and explaining he lives in NJ and needs 15 dollars to get home. I dont buy that story for a second.

Ever since a friend got mugged at my 21st birthday party I also dont carry cash on me. I am also very sceptical of many beggars and the shaky lady is one of many such stories I know or have been told. There was a man in south africa who had no legs and would sit in the middle road and beg. I thought he would get run over one but I absolultly believed he had no legs. One day it went viral in a video, a security guard walked up to him and said he would kick him in 5..4..3..2..1, his legs just unfolded from out of his shirt and he ran away. It was incredible. I have read that beggars in London are basically profesionals who can take home a few hundred pounds a day. I dont know the truth.

I dont know why so many homless dont like the shelters. There stuff gets stolen, their is violence, rape I can believe it but it also seems many dont want help, or at least not help how we see it. Whether its because the drugs are in too deep or mental illness I have no idea.

I don't want to be panhandled while eating outside a restaurant though. I don't want to have to close my eyes and pretend I dont see. I read about 'No fatigue' once and I think that encapsulated perfectly what living in south Africa was like.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Cause, on 03 January 2023 - 07:16 PM, said:

2) last night again a man asked for directions and next thing I knew I was looking into his meth teeth (I assume) as he waves his medical papers from Jefferson in my face and his hospital bracelet and explaining he lives in NJ and needs 15 dollars to get home. I dont buy that story for a second.

Could be opioids: 'Opium addiction is associated with higher tooth loss, especially, in women opium users.'

Association between Tooth Loss and Opium Addiction

'Regular use of opioids can dry out oral tissues, reducing the amount of saliva the mouth produces.

This harms oral health, because saliva is the natural lubricant for the mouth. As saliva swishes over tooth surfaces, it removes food particles stuck between teeth and along the gumline between brushings. Saliva also controls oral acids and bacteria that can cause dental health problems like decay and bad breath.

[...]

Opioid addicts who neglect their dental health may experience several other problems. [...]

1. Bruxism– Users are more prone to grind their teeth, which can crack and break enamel and weaken the jaw.

2. Reduced blood flow to oral tissues– [...] Decreased blood flow to oral tissues can cause them to die and weaken tooth structures.'

Opioid Addiction and Dental Health

Of course Philadelphia does also have meth addicts....

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 03 January 2023 - 11:14 PM

[Dolmen 2.0]

When I was very young, maybe 8 or so? My brother and I would walk to school, (roughly 3kms away?) And in those days kids generally were expected to be self reliant. I recall passing a man who seemed to be homeless. He had no shoes on and his clothes were haggard AF. He had a stone in each hand and in my idiocy I ducked to his side thinking a man with stones in his hands is on his way to something sensible that wouldn't involve me.

The man smashed me ontop of my head.

My first real memory of actually being attacked. I learnt later the man was an escaped resident of a local asylum. He escaped the asylum because he wanted the freedom to hit people with rocks. Drugs played a part in it aswell.

Moving to South Africa I realised this shaped alot of my opinion on homelessness and mental illness. I made it a point to never ever get directly involved however I find myself in recent years really concerned about that guy with the rocks in his hands.

I study affordability and the challenges of low-income communities now and it really doesnt paint a good picture on us. The odds are so heavily against low-income families, fully two thirds of the community I study resorted to substance abuse. Often part of familial pressures or peer pressures. Amongst the really frustrated members substance abuse overtakes their ability to earn, compromising their ability to work and rewarding their negligence of family responsibility with a 'high'.

The sheer amount of work to drag oneself out of that sinkhole is heartbreaking.

My personal theory is simply this: homelessness wont go away if we keep making life at the margins impossible to escape. People need personal help sure but I think they need systemic help more.

One outlier case i've kept an eye on called Khuliswa supported women working as house maids. The women came from households with substance abuse problems. They helped them on multiple levels. They provided food gardens, paid a decent amount for recycled materials, aided in legal issues and helped the families find subsidised housing. Quite a few kids in that environment broke free of the substance abuse cycle often due to the trauma it caused their family.

In my mind its programmes like these that need more funding. I dont think you can 'fix' things for homeless individuals but you can shore up against it.

[RealGatekeeper1]

I used to be a big supporter of the unhoused. My first two wives and I did work with them. Then one of them shat on my windshield and scared the (crap) out of my mom. Sad.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Quote

America’s approach to drugs and addiction today—which in many regions has shifted toward forbearance until users volunteer for treatment—is both well intentioned and out of date, given the massive street supplies of fentanyl and meth. It is failing just about everyone.

[...] We need to use arrests and the threat of confinement to break the hold of addiction. We also need to transform jail [to focus on treatment and rehabilitation ...]

Fentanyl is so potent and cheap that dealers add it to other street drugs, creating opioid-addicted daily customers from, say, casual cocaine users, even at the risk of killing them. It has all but chased heroin from the market. Users could live for decades on heroin. But [...] “There’s no such thing as a long-term fentanyl user.”

Methamphetamine [... street drug i]ngredients now include an ever-evolving lineup of toxic industrial chemicals. Meth use is now often accompanied by rapid-onset symptoms of mental illness—paranoia, hallucinations—symptoms that in many cases seem to far outlast the high itself.

Homelessness has many causes, but partly because of the way the new meth tangles the mind of its users, the drug has undoubtedly made people homeless and kept many others on the street. It is a regular feature of tent-encampment life across the country. [...]

The meth now being sold in the U.S. deprives many users of the mental ability to find readiness and opt into treatment. Fentanyl deprives them of the time to do so. Unlike heroin, it requires addicts to use several times a day to keep dope sickness at bay. Each use is potentially deadly. [...]

[...] routinely reviving people who have overdosed on fentanyl a dozen times or more within a few months—sometimes twice in the same day.

[...] overdose[...] damages parts of the brain that govern memory, motor skills, and, especially, reason and long-term decision making. [...]

[...] following brain impairment, a person is less likely to control harmful behavior, perceive an action’s consequences, postpone gratification, and make plans to change. Thus, damage from repeated overdoses makes it progressively more difficult for addicts to stop using.

[...] Adding to the damage from overdose is the blunt-force brain trauma that so often accompanies addiction and street life: from falls, fights, accidents, beatings. A policy of allowing a person to return to the streets to use fentanyl after a Narcan-revived overdose is not compassion; it’s an invitation to more trauma, more overdose, death.

[...] in a growing number of places—Denver and Columbus, Ohio, among them—jail is being redesigned as an opportunity for addicts and a long-term investment in recovery.

[...] the kind of treatment addicts would receive in a rehab center on the outside. Jail ensures that they stay long enough for their brain to get a needed respite from dope.

In a Time of Fentanyl and Meth, Drug Decriminalization Is a Mistake - The Atlantic

Legalizing the less harmful alternatives might go a long way towards ending the fentanyl-laced street-drug / toxic meth crisis... but bungface's not going to do that anytime soon.

Or creating better pleasure drugs or other intoxicants with less substantial negative health impacts (but again, not likely to be allowed to happen... though perhaps people will reconsider once automation liberates them from de facto forced labor).

[Cause]

Could go into messing with my groove post too but I thought here was more appropriate.

Yesterday in the nations capital of Washington DC, I saw a homeless women with a trolley cart of all her possessions talk to herself as she went into a used bookstore and spent 5 dollars on a gigantic academic text. She then took the book and held it high above her head on the street corner shouting that college was for fools, she had the highest iq of anyone was working on very important stuff and had multiple Hobart doctorates.

Again, it is just crazy to me that a clearly disturbed and mentally I’ll women can walk the streets in the wealthiest nation in the worlds capital and not get the help she needs.

[Macros]

Because like 90% of the wealth is in the hands of about 50,000 people and they for the most do not give a fuck