[Fist Gamet]

Prologue
1. Not sure about this opening line, I would imagine it needs a re-organisation to have a greater impact. It seems to me that you are using too many words to deliver the hook here (and used “cold” twice). Also, “certainty of that first bullet…” would there be a second?
2. “…. In that moment the world is a bright glare…” this, for me, is a far better opening line.
3. “…The alcohol had diluted his senses and torn away all his dignity as he had wallowed for years in his own misfortune, now though at the end, with the last scraps of his pride powering what tattered remains of his will still existed, he was ready for peace…” I want to be sure that this is the style of writing that you are using. By this, I mean that this opening is from Harper’s PoV, right? However, this is written from a more detached and remote PoV, the God mode if you like. Let me explain – we (the reader) have no right to know that his dignity has been torn away simply because you (the writer) have told us this in this fashion. Being a sodden drunk, haunted, desperate and on the edge of suicide, we kinda already guessed everything in the sentence I have highlighted.
4. On a related point, I am a believer in the “show, don’t tell” method of writing. To this end, you have already shown us that he is pathetic and broken simply by the sheer mess of the guy. You want us to know that his last shreds of dignity and self-respect have gone? Fine, have him lying in his own vomit and urine.
5. “…as a man as brave and true as any that had ever walked felt the cold onset of fear and the terrible truth of his own cowardice…” I will assume now that the God PoV is the one you are employing, and whilst I have a strong dislike for this style I will put that to one side and persevere.
6. I do enjoy the way you drop in little hints of his life, such as “…the last look in his wife’s dying eyes…” but I would caution you to avoid answering the unasked questions so soon afterwards. In this example, you tell us he actually killed his wife just a few lines later. I would think this would only work if you then further deepen the mystery by hinting at some other bizarre fact or circumstance directly relating to this killing. I hope so!
7. “…the last King of Ireland…” this did, of course, smack me on the face and really grab my attention. Very good. 
8. “…unnatural dryness…” what, pray tell, is so unnatural about dryness?
9. “…that struck a bitter contrast to the heat of his body…” well of course it is a contrast, that was the point of writing the line was it not? Therefore, do not tell us, it makes me (the reader) feel as if you are patronising me.
10. “…The war had been terrible for the League, with territory after territory falling to Katrina’s armies…” I am not trying to labour the point but this is why I do not like this remote PoV, and it is unnecessary – consider, you could simply add this into the talk that Thomas is giving to Harper, as he is, after all, talking about the war.
11. Well, the prologue is certainly interesting, and very different from anything I have read (in terms of the setting, and this is no bad thing). I like the way you have avoided trying to explain to us how this alternate (or futuristic) world has come about, and I hope you never do.


More to come later...

[Cause]

I will read it when its all sorted. Dont want to reread it and than have you change it again. well at least not so soon after I have read it. look forward to it and to see if I can spot the diffrences

[drinksinbars]

yeah i though bournes scene was well out of place there cheers mate.

maria has been fired, which is the purpose of that scene, and the implication in the scene i am dropping. might throw it in at the start of this in her daydream. maybe some musing about the test subject or whatever

[Yellow]

Send me what you have, I'll get comments back asap.

Tbh, I really liked chapter 14 (although it was only short), and it would be a shame for you to get rid of it.

I prefer 14 than the other stuff about Arthur and Matilda etc... more my preferred genre, really.

But you're the author.

[Fist Gamet]

I am going to have a read at the update you emailed a few days back and hopefully post today.

[Yellow]

No, I'm fine with the look - I'm not saying you should change how it looks or the way it is or anything like that.

What I was trying to say was that when it first comes into the scene, you describe it a bit, and one of the things you say about it is that it has an immaculate grey suit. That's all fine, but later whenever you want to describe it again, you always seem to refer to the suit, but without describing it in any detail or referring to anything else - it's always just "its suit", and I think you rely on that too much to get the look of the character across.

The thing is, I think I have a very good picture of the thing in my head, but it's not because of your description - you gave the initial description, and I then equated it with a hybrid of all the other dapper demons I've seen (Lucifer from most modern works, Gabriel/whatsisface from Constantine, Azrael from Dogma, etc).

So it's like you've made an initial allusion to things that the reader already knows, without really describing the character yourself. It strikes me as being quite passive.

I don't know if I'm explaining this properly, sorry, but I'll give an extreme example of this (and I'm not saying this is what you do, but it's taken to the extreme).

"A creature walks into a bar. It has a big black dome for a head - you know - like the alien from Alien..."

and then not describing it any further.

Anyway it's not such a big deal as this post seems to be making it out to be... so ignore me if you disagree

[drinksinbars]

their the same person, baxter mentions harper doesnt get close to any of the marines, he watches the nameless marine with the blonde hair, who is vazquez. i was try to show each characters traits, harpers old and bitter at that poitn and refuses to make relationships. thats why hes pissed off baxter got injured, he has no stomach for a fight and needs motivation but cant find it. vazquez saves him and he didnt know her name, i guess writing it i didnt notice it might seem like two different people and it got to you, your not meant to care about her in harpers eyes as he doesnt

ill look into it.

i know this sections action heavy, but you have had a lull for a while, and i felt the tension needed a good pay off, it might of been a little subliminal but i try to make the action ebb and flow in that part like the throbbing of a blood vessell !!!! yeah right!!! only kiddin, no seriously only kidding.

i just couldnt see anywya to not include the action as i did and maintain the tension on harper. the title is redemption and deals with each characters path to it, so this is harpers, and as he is the one who feels the most sinful his is unluckily the hardest road to walk. it gets worse before it gets better.

[drinksinbars]

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
It wasn't that I missed that they were League, but that I didn't get that the town was Council, and then I didn't get why they were helping, I didn't know if it was Bourne's pity or part of the plan. I think the problem for me was that I had a preconception that they would try to sneak through without being seen and when they did something different I got confused. Like I say, it could just have been me, but if you'd just mentioned that they're wearing enemy uniforms, or if Bourne said something like, "Now guys, no swearing undying allegence to the League in front of strangers here, you gotta act like you love them Council buggers." Obviously I'm being facetious, but you know what I mean?

thats a great line!!!!!! woohoo! you should write a book ill explain here then include what i mean in the book somehow. they are trying to sneak in, in a way. but bourne see's all the injured people and although he wants to believe hes helping them because he cares, he just see's it as an oppurtunity to add realism to their disguise. by the time they reach town, his troops are walking hand in hand(not literally) with council troops. they are covered in dirt and grime and blood and carrying wounded, while theres nothing to distinguish them from their enemies. for bourne its the perfect oppurtunity to infiltrate the town.

[drinksinbars]

maybe its cause of what happens after it that i dont mind losing it. its only really maria's section i want to lose, and maybe the bit at the very start.

the reason that beach section is different though is becasue the dream is changing, as time passes the dreamer is becoming more aware and will have to eventually break that cycle to go on

ill send you it so you can see what i mean.

just thinking maybe incorporate that section into the next bit?? hmm??

[drinksinbars]

gods i have been so lazy this week havent wrote a stitch, just so tired and run down after last week end.

1. i know what you mean, that does seem a little matronish!!! ok will look into it.

2. in the original version this was just prose, a tell not show bit, i thought i had altered it to make it thoughtful, will give it another go.

3. it does seem like they dont react, but im trying to get the reader to go why did they not react? what are they doing that an investagation mifght disrupt? do they really not know? plus its only hinted at here, and the callahan story is all about this but there is a war in the priesthoods going on in the background and people are picking off the high council, its very subtkle but there is also a mention of the imperial guards, katrina has a personal bodyguard who will show up later, and some of the others have yet to show their true natures. trust me, ill go over it and make their reactions slightly less undramatic but as katrina says they need akira, and he makes ouit he needs them. his watchers are guardians he implies and the uneasy alliance makes it so they have to show faith.

cheers
for still reading, the council sections are the hardest to write so id be interested to know if the pacing was good, and if the characters were enjoyable or hateful, mostly not 2d though, for that would be worse. also what do you think of the world itself, is the social structure convincing? or does everything feel contrived?

[drinksinbars]

too be honest i was going to totally scrap chapter 14. my reason is that although it does show alot about the plot and make you think it could probably work better just being referred to in the past.

merlin isnt that important an a charcter, at leats not in what he does, but he is a connection to many other characters.


as for merlin, i do describe him, i talk about how his face is parchment like, how his eyes are sunken and that the drugs steal his health. i mention his voice being a painful drawl. hes stick thin and hunched over. is that not enough!!! only kidding.

would you mind if i send you a quickly edited version of the story and you can tell me if you think it works better without 14?? plus i reorganised it so chapter fifteen is now at the start of part three, so as to allow this sectino a bit more stage time. what you think??

[drinksinbars]

ok just finished off another of my chapters with the rewrite, have to say im pleased the story is shaping up well, lots of little threads to pluck

if anyone wnats a copy now i can send it, am currently rewriting the next "chapter" thats in quotes cause every chapter i have rewritten gets broken down into like four chapters the next one is a harper chapter and should be rewritten by friday, if anyone wishes to wait thats fine aswell.

@yellow - took the thing home and ran it on my other pc and the grammaar check went mad so hopefully the early stuff isnt as bad as when you had to trudge through. if you download could you justs kim the prologue as its the only thing thats changed really in sucha way to warrant a reread.

@bruk - same goes for prologue, could you reread it and tell me which is better??

[drinksinbars]

when i sadi about the grammar before i literally meant i cant do anything about it, my grammar is just so pitifully bad in places, i write likei think which can be atrocious at times. my missus is going to proof read and fix that **** up for me at some point but i want to write the thing first

im finding the story is coming much better now, i have a really good grasp of all the different parts i want to add and the different threads that are to come, i have to warn you though once chapter 10 hits it all turns very different for a while, perhaps even before that. i think cause mentioned about a character aiko before, well i just finished her intro into the story and i have to say its scarily better than what went before shes a real psycho, kind of like bav on this forum

sorry about the grammar, i do run that stupid grammar checker but it just dont work!!!!!!

cheers for reading, ill send you some more soon, heres a snippet from chapter 19


Aiko listened to the soft splattering sound of the rain hitting against her windowsill, outside the rain was still coming down with renewed vigour, the early evening promise of a clear night never materialising into something real. She didn’t mind the rain though, its sound was oddly relaxing and she would need all her concentration for what she was going to do. In her mind she began to weave the image from the base upward, focusing intently on each section of the body as she developed it from the bones outward. It was an image she had never used before, so in her mind she created a fully three-dimensional version of the photos she had cut from the newspapers, and those that were in the file. The first transition into any new shape was always difficult. Familiarity with a form made the process much quicker, but for now she was looking forward to at least an hour of pain.
Her training in the medical field had provided her with a precise understanding of the human body; the unique and individual structuring of a person’s body from the bones to the muscles to the skin was like second nature to her. Every curve, every angle a result of what was underneath. Just looking at an image wasn’t enough to assume its shape, she had to understand why a person looked as they did; in the beginning they had trained them with dead bodies, classes like autopsies which stretched for hours and hours. Now years later Aiko was able to do it without the need for a physical specimen, though if she was in a hurry it did help to have one, and she also quite enjoyed brushing up on her surgical skills.

[Yellow]

Ok, I'll have a read... not read the original next bit yet, does that matter?

I thought Maria's bit was referring to the dreamer in some way? I thought he was in some kind of induced coma, while they do all these tests on him. If not, then yeah, do something, cause that could be confusing.

[drinksinbars]

wow, resurrecting this thread as i am in the process of a massive rewrite and just want to garner some interest toward possible reading by people. Blame cause for this, he has started digging the spurs in, which i am grateful for, hopefully it wont take me too long, but if anyone wants i could send them my first chapter and prologue and you can give me an idea of what you think. For those that dont know, its a modern day fantasy novel set in a very strict political society, while a war is going on. the first part is seperate from the war, while the second is set in the war, but actually deals with a rebellion over a decade before. confused, i know i am.

if you want a sample, post your email address and i will send it to you:)

[Cause]

The stuff changed since I last read it?

[drinksinbars]

a hell of a lot it.

[Cause]

Send it to me than. You have my gmail adress? I wont be able to read it for a long while yet. Exams are just starting up. But maybe its the break Ill need between text books

[drinksinbars]

done. if you want anymore chapters just say. plus any feedback (suggestions for the story, continuity errors, general plot weirdness) tell me:)

[drinksinbars]

holy shit, cant believe i started writing this over three years ago

thats amd.

anyway i have done some revisions to it and if people fancy a gander they are more than welcome. will be more in next few weeks though as i have finished the first part and am currently working through part two. Its 85,000 words in part one though, so unless your feeling very bored at work you probably wont care to read it. Anyhow just thought i would look this thread up to find out how long i have been messing with this.