[Iron Bars]

I think I have the older version. And it's not confusing for me, I was just wondering how you kept everything in order.

Its a very interesting read and I'm enjoying it a lot. So keep up the good work.

[Yellow]

I am reading the version with parts, and I think they work well. Like I said, this section is so different that I would need it separating if I were reading it in book form.

Merlin doesn't bother me as a name. It seemed like a big name for such a small character though (unless he turns out be be a more important character later on).

Read 14 now... I recognise the beach scene... from the old prologue wasn't it?

I quite like the way it reapeats itself over and over (or seems to). I thought though that perhaps if you want to emphasise the cycle, that it repeats over and over, that the last paragraph should be identical to the first paragraph.

Last part of this chapter... very interesting

Only problem here is that the POV flits between the two people talking (mostly it's Maria, but then we get inside the man's head for a sentence or two) - I think you should stick to either the man or Maria. I'd choose Maria, since she seems to be a character you're going to focus on soon.

EDIT - the bit about Merlin's description... I understand what you're trying to say. The problem here I think is that instead of describing the guy properly, you're just saying "He used to look young. Now he looked old." I'm paraphrasing of course, but I think you should actually describe the guy, instead of just saying he looked ancient.

EDIT EDIT - Ok, I'm finding it hard to describe this. It's like you're relying on my own preconceptions to get your description across. Mostly you don't do this, but I've seen it creep in a few times. It's like you're saying "he looks like an old guy. You've seen old guys. Fill in the blanks."

That make sense?

[drinksinbars]

quote:

Originally posted by Fist Gamet:
Chapter one – Not really sure whose PoV we are reading from.
Shouldn’t Bourne know better than to undermine the Sergeant’s authority in front of everyone like that? The Sarge will not be able to achieve anything now.

if you mean the sergeants job is redundant then thats what i am implyiong. they have been at that for a long time and feel like they know it all already. bournes an authority figure solely because hes elite, but he doesnt like war and authority, you find out later on that those who are elite and forced intot he military as people dont trust them in anything else. they are given a command because they cant take orders. after months of repetitive training bourne couldnt be bothered anymore and the sergeant is used to his crap

“…The elusive Captain was well liked by his squad for his ability to keep them alive, but he hadn’t worked his way to captaincy, obtaining it instead through his natural ability and an ancient edict about the Elite and their standing within the army. It wasn’t even this nepotism of a kind that bugged the general, instead it was Bourne’s refusal to push himself, he always seemed so damned aloof and complacent that it just plain irritated his peers and superiors who had worked hard for their posts.
“Now everyone knows where they stand, thank you sir.” Bourne’s face was impassive but his blood boiled…” – as I say (and I might have mentioned before) there are two very different PoV within this little extract and it confuses me. Ok, so tell me to shutup and I won’t mention it again. 

ill look into it, i think this first chapter is the only place where i mix POV's. after the last time you went over this and pointed it out, i tried to maintain a single pov throughotu the rest of the rewrite. i havenmt as yet gone over chapter one fully yet. did this line though not go you some hints as to the top thing^ with bournes elite status granting him a command and earning him resentment?? or do i need to expand this into bournes POV and explain it better??

“…while the remainder was under Council control…” bit superfluous, eh?
Something else I find improves any piece of work is to cut down on the needless “he said…she asked…he replied…” etc after every piece of dialogue. Usually we can tell who said what and it makes for a smoother and more respectable read. Try it.

i do drop them some places, but in others when there are lots of characters, or emotion, i tend to do tyhis. if everyone finds it annoying after a while, please say and i will change it. i do take comments seriously, as i know im regularly wrong

Oh, and when you finish with a name or title (such as… “thank you sir” or “that will be all captain” be sure and add the comma, such as… “thank you, sir” or “that will be all, captain.” Otherwise “that will be all captain” means that some thing will be all captain, and “**** man step on it!” means he is calling him “**** man” which isn’t very nice, and just makes no sense, does it?

thought i had done that, buit then as yellow poitns out my grammar sux. this is the unproofread story remember so grammatical errors should just be groaned at and pointed out for ridicule

“…giant plume of flame ballooned along the wall…” Does flame “balloon”?

yeah!!! the missile strikes the wall, and the flame expands up it, pushing outward like a giant balloon of flame.


“…Drawing in his will he shot off at the cliff wall. His power, his speed and his strength sent him bursting up and over the cliff wall, feet and hands finding holds without thought as he sped up its face, little more than a blur of movement. He landed in the road moments before the truck reached him, not slowing down he was back inside the trucks cab before Mac knew what was happening. Startled Mac near drove off the edge but Bourne grabbed the wheel and steadied the truck, offering the Scot a kind of ‘Thank Christ’ kind of look for his trouble…” – Um, what just happened there?


that scene has been removed.

Chapter Two – “…As they left the tree line the world opened up before them into a sprawling green valley that was only rarely broken by the black tarmac of roads…” Not I thought they were still basically in and around what has been the war-torn border of the last months / years and you have already mentioned the standard carpetbomb / counter-carpetbomb thing, so…green valleys? I know you go on to say the League had not tried to attack but with all that hardware around the farms would they not at least use airstrikes?

the league had lost this area to a push just a few months previously, but there wasnt really a major battle, and the carpet bombiung was done from the other side of the mountains along their breadth to stop the push and hold the council in the valley. it might sound better though as war torn landscape?? ill look into, maybe add devestation everywhere and implement a bit of magery to show small areas preserved around the weapons to indicate prioirities of war.

You really do frustrate me with your Godlike PoV!!!!! *sigh* oh well… read on and tell me does it continue, that way i will know for certain what it is yur talking about.

The conversation between Callahan and the injured woman does not sit well with me. I think you can do it much better and I reckon if you read it back again you will not be happy with it as it is. It reads as though no effort or thought has gone into it from you but you can tell me to f*** off if I am wrong.

Chapter Three – Don’t quite see why Callahan thinks is god has forsaken him. I think we could have used some tension in that chapter when Bourne is trying to smuggle the priest out for it was crying out for it, imho. Just seemed a bit too easy and there was no hint about Callahan’s loyalties or feelings about being a pawn for the military so soon after his revulsion at war in general. Anyway, would Bourne not have had (or at least made up) some reason, fake or otherwise, to persuade or guilt-trip or bully the priest just in case he did not come quietly. A fake reason would make a nice plot element until the time comes to reveal the truth and pull the rug from under your readers.

they arent on a wartime mission. the war between the council and league isnt their mission. the catholic church offers services of its priests as healers, but there have been disappearances throughout league territory of priests of all demominations. callahan knows this and so isnt surprised that they turn up. his conciet is collosal, which although making him a good healer, makes hima bad priest. hence his over reaction at his god. plus the characters expand as the story goes on, with a more indepth look between them and some rivalry within the group.

Anyway, hope some of this helps and I will read the rest later.

cheers!!!!


as for the second point, as we get farther into the story, the characters are expanded alot. this is only their intro, and as such isnt very detailed regarding them.

[drinksinbars]

well this first part is gonna clock in at 300, iu reckon the next will do the same.

redemption - absolution??

[Yellow]

Chapter 9...

So we get to see Katrina for the first time, as well as the Council leaders. Good timing, I feel - it was about time we get to learn a little more of what's going on here, which this does quite well.

Overall the balance of the coucil scene was pretty good, and it helped open up the world a bit, i.e. we find out a bit of who they are, where they're fighting etc.

Just a few points here...

1. Near the beginning, Katrina tells off Vlad and Akira (I think) for squabbling, and one of them mutters a "sorry". This bit feels like she is telling off two naughty school children, which probably isn't the image you want in the heads of the council. Unless you do

2. There's a few sentences in Katrina's head a few pages in where she thinks: "The only good point is the removal of his chaotic nature from the Council high command; Trent’s obtuse nature had always riled many of the Council. It certainly riled me, for as long as I have known him I have wanted to kill the bastard, yet I hoped to use him for just a little longer."

Hard to say why, but this bit didn't really strike me someone's thoughts. It seems like it should be a narrative or her telling another person rather than in Katrina's thoughts. I think it's the structure, the language. Not sure really.

3. Last thing When they find out that there are elite bodyguards watching them, to me they seem to take it a little too well. They have a little outburst, but if it were me I'd be going mental! They are the top-brass, and if it were me I'd be furious to find out one of my colleagues had people effectively spying on me. I'd want to know who they are, where they are, where they watch from, how long they've been watching, etc etc. I don't think I would let it rest as quickly/easily as these guys do...

Ok that's your lot for now...

[drinksinbars]

no i see your point, ive never been good at grammar, in fatc i have to say its my weakest point by far in my opinion, so any nit picking about it is welcomed

[will]

Ok. I'm still working on what you sent me, DiB, but I thought I'd stop in and give a progress report, since I find it easier to give constructive criticism if I focus on smaller chunks. So, I've read up to, and including, chapter 8 and this seems like a natural break and so a good place to start commenting.

First off, I'm enjoying this book a lot, if I'd paid money for this I wouldn't be complaining (although I might be writing narky letters to your proof reader). I should confess that your writing in a sub-genre (if you could call it that) that I love, that being post-apocalyptic real-world novels - or at least real-world novels where things are really ****ed up since I know your is more alternate history than post-apocalypse. Still, you get my point... I hope.

The point is I like it. The stories interesting, the characters are good, the horror's horrific, the fantasy's fantastic and people throw swords and impale hideous demon things, what more could you ask for?

K. One or two quibbles. The section I had the most trouble with was when Bourne and co. start their mission. The part from them getting in their truck to them arriving in that first bombed out town was a little unclear to me. My biggest problem was that I didn't understand what was going on when they got to the town. I was still trying to sort out which side was the League which side was the Council and who belonged to which. At first I thought they'd arrived in one of their own towns, then I thought Bourne had decided to endanger his mission in order to help the enemy. I got it all worked out in the end but I think it really needs to be made clearer earlier that they're infiltrating the enemy and not just sneaking past (which is what I assumed to begin with). Even if you just mention their uniforms, or more clues as to what their training is about. Now maybe I'm just slow, or I was tired at the time and I missed something.

My other minor winge about this part is when Bourne gets out of the truck and climbs the wall. It feels a little like it's just and excuse to show off his Elite abilities, since I think it would be more natural for him just to jump back in the truck. I know their was no time but it just felt a little forced to me.

Anyhow, once I'd sorted out what was going on with them in the town everything ran pretty smoothly. I think there were one or two missed opportunities in there. At the start of the zombie scene I think you could drag out the suspense a little by building up the fighting coming over the radio a lot more, and I think there's just about another chapter of them being locked in the church waiting for the demon to come. The sickness prying at the infected soldiers minds, the priest deteriorating, Harpers doubts, the feeling of the demon getting closer, maybe the soldier who can't hold out and gives into the voices in his head and has to be shot. For me the demon arrived to quickly. Milk the suspense. You've got all the pieces set up real nice, it should be a sinch to have us sick with dread before the demon thing even gets there.

Otherwise, it's great. I love the fight with Harper and the Demon and the priest's God's involvement works well. I'll keep on reading and post again next time I come to a likely break.

Oh, two other thoughts. Wasn't Callahan the priest in Salam's Lot? Not that it matters but just the coincidence of name and profession struck me.

And: "Short controlled bursts." I suddenly remember a line from Reaper Man when the wizards are fighting the shopping trollies one of them yells, "Wild uncontrolled bursts." I think it's a parody of something.

K, this post is too long now. Enjoy.

[drinksinbars]

the difference between the league and the council are quite minimal, the council is made up of the members of the league high council who were disposed in the revolution ten years previous, as well as some outside contractors. there are major differences between the two but the lines are intentionally blurry, pretty soon after ward you will be meeting thomas and some other characters in the league which will differentiate the thing better.

ill look into it, i always felt that padre was a blabber mouth so ill go over it

[Cause]

hows the rewrite coming

[Iron Bars]

Finished chapter 9. The conversation between the leaders of the council. It started out a bit akward but it became better the longer it went on. One thing that bugged me alot was the constand she said, he replied and so on after every sentence (Gamet might have already said that). Also why are they the council of twelve when the four of them seem to make all the dicisions?

I remeber this chapter from before I think and it did become a whole lot better. On to the next one.

[Cause]

recieved it. Its exams now so I think it may be a while before I get to it.

[drinksinbars]

no worries mate, you do whatever you need to do first like writing YOUR next chapter!!!!!

[Iron Bars]

With the dagger: its a dark piece of the story and than the killer, who seems to be in complete control of him mind and body to a dergree that he acts almost like a robot, start thinking about his favorite dagger. It just felt a bit strange.

[drinksinbars]

not sure if its totally important other than i want the reader to understand that a lot is happening to each side, and the current state of the war.

in general the tactics are understated as i am not trying to go...oy this is magic at work, everything should feel natural to the characters. there isnt a lot on show from akira as he is generally a tight mouthed SOB, but there you go. i guess all you get from this part is intrigue and suggestion, this was after all thwe old chapter 3 and so still an intro. i dont want to lay it on too thick as these characters are revisited soon enough.

the logistics etc is important only in that harper and bourne are both in that area and so some of the story centres around the ukraine and romania etc. was it boring to read? if so i will go over it and narrow it down, but if the pacing is right but there doesnt seem to be much happening, well i can live with that

[Yellow]

Yeah those lines look good to me

I think the build-up to this chapter (at the end of chapter 4) works well, and on the whole this chapter works well too.

One slight problem with it may be that there is perhaps a little too much action going on, and it may be over-saturation. It's full-on stuff all the way, which might hamper it a bit. There is a lot going on though, so I'm not sure how you'd address that.

Ok, the next thing I was going to say was about the first female marine getting killed by grenade, and then Vasquez getting killed by grenade, but I've skimmed through to find the section again, and can't find it! Did I just imagine it or what? Anyway, this is what I was going to say (ignore if it was all in my head )

I did find that the first time a female marine bites it (she gets grenaded to put her out of her misery) took away from the bit where Vasquez gets it (another grenade, similar circumstances). Maybe the first one should die in another way, since we don't really care about her too much?

So there you go. Hope this answers your questions a bit.

[drinksinbars]

im currently in research mode at the moment, studing the ancient pantheon for references and ideas, bought a visual encyclopedia of mythology for a fiver in bargain books, reduced from 30!!! so its backing up some of the mythos i already employ!!!

[Yellow]

Ok I've read 13 now... the bit where Merlin turns up at Arthur's and the bit with Matilda and Harry talking about IA and stuff.

First off, I think the Parts that you've put in were a good idea - I'm beginning to see how different this section is from the earlier stuff.

Not a hell of a lot happens in this chapter, just continuation of story, so not a lot to say on the plot front. Maybe it's just me but I feel like these two sections could do with slimming down a bit - they seem a little overly scripted (or whatever the novel version of that is) for scenes where not much really happens. Personally, I'm not much of a fan of cop fiction so these threads might only seem that way to me because I want to get back to the magic and stuff. I'm wondering how these bits are going to tie in.

The bits where Arthur is making it up to his son seems a little too long, where it could be descrived in a paragraph.

The infodump about how policing works in the mage sector could have been hinted at... I think people are familiar with the idea already. It seems like overkill to go into detail.

Similarly with the explanation about IA and the beating of a suspect. It could be shortened down, since it's a familiar situation.

Having said that, Harry's and Matilda's characterisations are good here. We get to know a bit more about who they are and how they operate.

I did think that Matilda seemed to warm to Harry a bit too easily at the end - she started to think she might like him, though previous to these lines, there was nothing to indicate it. The opposite, in fact. A line or two earlier on to hint at it might work well? Unless I missed it earlier.

The way this stuff is written is all pretty good, in itself - I can see the relationships developing and stuff. I think I'm having a problem with the huge shift in focus, from fantasy/action to cop drama. That might just be my own fault though, since I'm not a fan of cop stuff in general. It seems to be on a much smaller scale than the earlier stuff - less grand, maybe?

The dialogue generally worked well throughout, though I did notice a few adverbs creeping in that might be best left out, e.g.

“We’ve been waiting for the retribution, Harry, guess the captain has finally caved in to the pressure from on high,” she said consolingly.

Leaving out the "she said consolingly" would still get the idea across, imo.

One last thing - whereas most of the descriptions are done well, now and again you seem to get a little lazy. An example of where you do it well is describing how the red tear marks on the kids face look. But then when Merlin comes in you say:

"Despite Arthur’s guess that he was only in his early twenties, the man before him looked positively ancient."

I think you need to describe why Arthur thinks he's in his twenties, but why he looks ancient. It got me thinking, why does he look ancient? What is it about him that gives that impression? It seems a bit too convenient to just say he looks old, let's have some description!

Ok that's it. Some of this probably drones on for such a small chapter, but nothing was particularly bad, I'm just struggling to get my point across

[Iron Bars]

I'm up to chapter 6 now. The change is noticable. You split the book into two parts, did the 2 mages go into part2? I'm asuming the Council chapters also went to part 2.

The zombie fest in chapter 4/5 was just as good as it was in the old version with that you wrote out the characters more. The only downpoint was that it would help if you put in some more paragrafs to make it easier to read, but you already comentit on that.

[drinksinbars]

im not trying to remove rthe bleakness, just sort of add humour to some sections to offer brief respites.

[drinksinbars]

im writing the backstory into the novel and it deals with this whole section, specifically the network and the politics of the world.

the justice system is very harsh, but there are many voids in the system and the blackmarkets etc are rife(ill say no more) i mention though that due to harsh sentencing crime is quite low, but most crimes go unpunished as its very hard to get convictions. there are sort of kid gloves on the justice system so the cops are almost as bad as the criminals

expect an update fairly soon