[Danforth]

So were they there before they ascended or not?

[vaiski]

Before.

[Danforth]

Ah, now that makes far more sense, probably should read NoK.

[Imperial Historian]

The fact that cotillion was at the chaining is tenuous at best... we have a quote from kalam which says he was... that's it, now kalam is not the most knowledgable of peopel on teh various minutae of the chaining... if k'rul, quick ben or cotillion himself had said that he had been there it would be more reasonable.

Anyway i think that dancer was probably at the last chaining with kelvanned on there travels before they gained the throne of shadow, theres nothing to confirm that, but iwth the whoel convergence thing someone as powerful as kel and dancer would have ended up there.

Anyhow logically it's impossible for cotillion to have been at the chaining as cotillion, so if h was there it was as dancer.

[tharinock]

in gotm if i remember correctly when high house shadow appears in the deck tattersail says that it is not a new house, but an old house that got revived. So there could have been a previous patron of assassins and god of shadows, and no reason why they should not have the same name. If this is true another thing to look at is the cult of rashan and shadowdancing etc.. and add events with them into timeline.

[Mentalist]

If Dancer was at the chaining, it was before he ascended.

I remeber an opening quote for one of the Chapters in tBH. It says that it was a great surprise that the CG has me the most fierce resistance from the house (and Gods) who had never participated in the chainings and would thus supposedly have no reason to get involved so strongly...

Also, we know that Dancer had some kind of connection with Rashan...maybe he was at the chaining as part of Rake's retinue (okay, that's pushing it a lot, but still, he was there on some darkness-aspected reason... as high priest, maybe?)

[Dolorous Menhir]

tharinock;224104 said:

in gotm if i remember correctly when high house shadow appears in the deck tattersail says that it is not a new house, but an old house that got revived. So there could have been a previous patron of assassins and god of shadows, and no reason why they should not have the same name. If this is true another thing to look at is the cult of rashan and shadowdancing etc.. and add events with them into timeline.

Sure there was a previous High House Shadow with unknown people in the above positions, but I'm not at all sure that the names Cotillion and Ammanas have anything in particular to do with that. They're just the names Dancer and Kellanved assumed as ascendants, not because they took positions in HHShadow.

Apply the test to anyone else in the Deck of Dragons - do they have their name because of their position in the Deck? Queen of Dreams excepted, because she is called by her title. Her actual name is T'riss.

[Lisheo]

I always thought that Cotillion was the Rope's true name, which is why they were so careful about using it back in GotM.
There have been at least three chainings, I think. There was a thread about them somewhere else, but I cant find it.

[Mentalist]

There have been tons of chainings, according to SE....
The names Ammanas and Cotillion are first used in the end of NoK, when Kellanved and Dancer are surveying their new warren.. but the since the chaining occured before then, I'm sticking with the idea that Dancer participated at the chaining in the entourage of Dark.....

[ShadowOwl]

"Who among the pantheon would the Fallen One despise and fear the most? Consider the last chaining, in which Hood, Fener, the Queen of Dreams, Osseric and Oponn, all participated, in addition to Anomander Rake, Caladan Brood and a host of other ascendants.
It is not so surprising, then, that the Crippled God could not have anticipated that his deadliest enemy was not found among those mentioned."
The Chaining by Istan Hela (chapter 23 House of Chains)

Who do you think is that deadliest enemy? Karsa? Could this be a hint of what the FA Calm meant when she told Bairoth to guard him, that there would come a time when Karsa was poised to change the world. And that she would return to bring peace (judge him?) and Bairoth was to step back at that time.

Or could it be Shadowthrone and Cotillion as they gain knowledge and power thru their learning of the Azath's power from the lost elementals?

Just throwing out some ideas - what do you think?

[ch'arlz]

Could be Karsa, sure. I go back and forth whether Cotillion/Dancer is the real moving force behind House Shadow, the marionette pulling strings. Strings... hmmm...