[Galactic Council]

twelve, on 13 May 2021 - 10:38 PM, said:

Well then I buy his war funding for 1 tg then and play it.

If Tapper confirms to me that he'll sell you his War Funding PN, I'll allow it but only because you're the active player and can technically trade at any point of your turn which would include between the combat rolls and assign hit steps of your turn. If you DO get it and use it, it means that both action cards will be back in play as playing the PN would have to happen right after dice are rolled, so before hits are assigned.

[twelve]

Understood

[D'rek]

Galactic Council, on 13 May 2021 - 11:33 PM, said:

twelve, on 13 May 2021 - 10:38 PM, said:

Well then I buy his war funding for 1 tg then and play it.

If Tapper confirms to me that he'll sell you his War Funding PN, I'll allow it but only because you're the active player and can technically trade at any point of your turn which would include between the combat rolls and assign hit steps of your turn. If you DO get it and use it, it means that both action cards will be back in play as playing the PN would have to happen right after dice are rolled, so before hits are assigned.

Wait you're letting him go back and retroactively buy it and apply it to the first round?! How is that not a "retcon in hindsight" ? I thought he was just trying to buy it for the second round.

[Galactic Council]

The way I see it is that in a regular game, he would have had the opportunity to buy it in the timing window between rolling and assigning hits, then again after you used your action card, which he didn't really get in this case. I figure it's fair to allow him the opportunity.

Also, Tapper DOES have an offer on the table for use of his PN for 1TG. I need him to confirm that offer is still on the table, but if it were, then Twelve should have had the opportunity to buy it after seeing the dice rolls.

If you're staunchly opposed, we can discuss.

This post has been edited by Galactic Council: 14 May 2021 - 01:05 AM

[D'rek]

He would not have known that I had or was going to play Reflective Shielding at that time. He does now.

I understand giving some leeway after an action card is played - it's difficult to predict what action cards an opponent might have because there are so many so you can't reasonably put in a provisional covering every possibility. But this isn't that, since War Funding would resolve before either action card was played.

At the time where Twelve would have played War Funding no action cards had yet been played and nothing unexpected had happened. Both of us rolled pretty average-probability dice rolls (actually, Twelve rolled an unusually high 6.7 average). If Twelve only wanted you to continue processing the battle if he had extremely good luck and otherwise wanted to pause combat there and try to negotiate a War Funding play, then he should have said that in a PM to you when taking his turn - the two ways that scenario could play out (lucky dice rolls / not lucky dice rolls) is not hard to predict and easy for him to specify instructions of what to do in each of the two cases in his turn post or a PM to Blend ("In the first round of space combat, if I don't get at least 3 hits or if D'rek gets at least 3 hits, I want to pause resolution there and try to negotiate for War Funding so I can play it and force rerolls. Otherwise, you can keep resolving.").

Nothing changed between him posting his turn and the timing window for War Funding. The only "new info" was confirmation of the dice roll results, but if that is a surprise worthy of stopping resolution how come we don't do that in every single battle? If Twelve genuinely had the intention of stopping and doing that negotiation for War Funding in the case of not-ideal dice rolls, that's a situation that he knew could happen - was likely to happen - when he posted his turn, so him not specifying that in his turn post or PM is just a misplay, isn't it?

Meanwhile, the difference of information between what he *should* have had when making that decision (not just available to him, but also to Tapper who is potentially selling him the War Funding) is much different than what it would have been at that actual timing window. Which is the whole point of why we are supposed to submit provisionals/PM instructions for this sort of thing in the first place.

This post has been edited by D'rek: 14 May 2021 - 01:53 AM

[twelve]

I did specialty tell Blend I wanted to take this battle slowly. Just the use of Tappers agent which was unexpected which lead to 4 hits would have prompted a stop.

[Imperial Historian]

Both twelve and d'rek make good points, this is the problem with forum play! I don't think d'rek playing Tappers agent could reasonably be predicted as it was crossed off in his post, but yes twelve should have made a call on war funding play prior to action cards, 6 hits is very different from 4.

It's hard to plan for every eventuality. The odds of the battle shifted dramatically towards d'rek as soon as the agent was played.

[Tapper]

Galactic Council, on 13 May 2021 - 11:33 PM, said:

twelve, on 13 May 2021 - 10:38 PM, said:

Well then I buy his war funding for 1 tg then and play it.

If Tapper confirms to me that he'll sell you his War Funding PN, I'll allow it but only because you're the active player and can technically trade at any point of your turn which would include between the combat rolls and assign hit steps of your turn. If you DO get it and use it, it means that both action cards will be back in play as playing the PN would have to happen right after dice are rolled, so before hits are assigned.

I had a standing notification that anyone can buy War Funding for 1 TG as long as it is used immediately and not in a combat against me.
War Funding is currently in my possession, so I am Okay with selling it.

This post has been edited by Tapper: 14 May 2021 - 06:22 AM

[Tapper]

As for the agent: its use was traded to D'rek in exchange for a free refresh.

[Khellendros]

This is a tough case and I'm glad I'm not the mod! I can see both viewpoints, and it is hard to escape the fact that Twelve is operating now (through no fault of his own, just by the vagaries of forum play) with a greater amount of knowledge. Arguably, D'rek, too, has more knowledge, as Twelve also played an action card, though it does feel like Reflective Shielding is the more impactful one here.

D'rek did get off 4/5 shots on the first turn, which would certainly make me turn to War Funding if I had it. I guess it comes down to whether Twelve wants War Funding because D'rek hit 4/5, or because D'rek hit 4/5 AND used an AC. I do also take D'rek's point that maybe more specific PM instructions were needed if Twelve was considering buying War Funding at any point.

War Funding would, in one sense, not actually impact *too much* on the use of either action card - D'rek would still sustain damage and use RS, Twelve would still end up playing CttE if D'rek's rolls were good, and if he didn't, then D'rek would sustain fewer hits.

This post has been edited by Khellendros: 14 May 2021 - 11:00 AM

[Khellendros]

2 damaged dreads against one damaged flagship - my money's on a total wipeout draw if they just continued

[Imperial Historian]

Khellendros, on 14 May 2021 - 11:02 AM, said:

2 damaged dreads against one damaged flagship - my money's on a total wipeout draw if they just continued

It's twelve, somehow both dreads will survive and his flagship get wiped.

[Galactic Council]

Alright, here's what we're going to do.

For this time and this time only I will allow Twelve to use War Funding during the first round of combat because he DID ask me to take the combat slowly and let him make decisions as we moved through it. I should have checked with him re: War Funding before using any action cards, so that's my fault as much as anyone else's.

In the future, for any combat where ANYONE might want to buy War Funding, please say so in your game PM to me. If it's not in there, I won't consider it and I won't pause the battle for it.

[Galactic Council]

Ouch, unfortunately War Funding did NOT help your cause.

[Imperial Historian]

Galactic Council, on 14 May 2021 - 01:42 PM, said:

Ouch, unfortunately War Funding did NOT help your cause.

Wouldn't twelve have re-rolled his misses too?

That war funding roll is just more Twelve hating from the dice.

[Tattersail_]

Twelve, can I ask you why you attacked Vega with 2 dreads, instead of making sure for your home system? Would the flagship and 2 dreads not have been better than a carrier?

It looks bleak in that region of the map.

[Imperial Historian]

Tattersail_, on 14 May 2021 - 01:51 PM, said:

Twelve, can I ask you why you attacked Vega with 2 dreads, instead of making sure for your home system? Would the flagship and 2 dreads not have been better than a carrier?

It looks bleak in that region of the map.

Carrier and 2 fighters gives better odds than a dread

[Galactic Council]

Imperial Historian, on 14 May 2021 - 01:50 PM, said:

Galactic Council, on 14 May 2021 - 01:42 PM, said:

Ouch, unfortunately War Funding did NOT help your cause.

Wouldn't twelve have re-rolled his misses too?

That war funding roll is just more Twelve hating from the dice.

Ah yeah, that's a good point.

Question then - if he hit once with his flagship and missed the other, would he be allowed to reroll just the miss, or would it have to be both rolls as they're both from the flagship?

[Khellendros]

Galactic Council, on 14 May 2021 - 01:59 PM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 14 May 2021 - 01:50 PM, said:

Galactic Council, on 14 May 2021 - 01:42 PM, said:

Ouch, unfortunately War Funding did NOT help your cause.

Wouldn't twelve have re-rolled his misses too?

That war funding roll is just more Twelve hating from the dice.

Ah yeah, that's a good point.

Question then - if he hit once with his flagship and missed the other, would he be allowed to reroll just the miss, or would it have to be both rolls as they're both from the flagship?

I think he can roll just the miss, but haven’t looked up anything to substantiate that.

[Khellendros]

D'rek must reroll all her dice.

D'rek > 3 Dreadnought II (5) + Viscount Unlenn (5), 1 Fighter (9) > [5d10=8, 6, 6, 9, 10] > (5 hits)

This is just cruel and unusual.