[Abyss]

Wait... Justine was Justin the whole time???
I DID NOT SEE THAT COMING

[Lady Bliss]

Chance, on 24 July 2020 - 11:48 PM, said:

D, on 24 July 2020 - 09:56 PM, said:

One of the "microfictions" Butcher wrote earlier takes place a handful of months after Peace Talks/Battle Ground and...

Spoiler

there's no mention of Ebenezer on Christmas Eve, despite the "Maybe Great-Grandpa can visit with us at Christmas" bit in Peace Talks.

We also know from that bit that thousands of Chicagoites will die, tens of thousands more will be seriously injured. Already that's not surprising with Ethniu's magical EMP potentially knocking out airplanes, hospital generators, tons of car accidents, etc.

And we know that none of Mab, Molly, Vadderung, Mouse, or Maggie will die.

And it sure seems to imply that several people close to Harry will die.

I kind of agree but there is also a curious absence of Murphy in that microfiction and lets face it Harry isn't going to get any happy ever afters so Murphy is very likely temporary in her current role and it can really only end one way.

Wait, what is this and where do I find it?!

[Lady Bliss]

So, I just finished the book tonight, and I agree, I liked it, but I didn’t love it. This book felt a bit too forced, and the end was too abrupt. I’m hoping that Butcher hits his groove with the second half.

Now that said, it was still a worthwhile read, and better than a lot of books out there!

Where was time travel brought up? I missed this somehow.

I agree, it was gross to have Harry eyeing Hope and Ivy, but my thought was that. Butcher WANTED us to think that since he is trying to paint Harry as losing to the dark side, which was a pretty strong theme this book. The next book is going to go more into his hitting rock bottom. Not sure if Ebeneazor will die, but I think it is more likely that Harry is going to cheat on Murphy. That relationship just isn’t meant to be. Kudos to Murphy if she goes lesbian afterwards!

Also, I couldn’t help but feel that by the way that Marcone took charge at the summit meant that he knew what was happening all along, and that he is making a play to be leader of the accords. This would jive to me with Mab making a counterplay using Thomas as bait to get Harry and Lara to do their parts. Ethnios is a third faction entirely.

Does anyone else think there will be something wrong with Thomas’ baby?

This post has been edited by Lady Bliss: 28 July 2020 - 04:06 AM

[Chance]

Lady Bliss, on 28 July 2020 - 03:30 AM, said:

Chance, on 24 July 2020 - 11:48 PM, said:

D, on 24 July 2020 - 09:56 PM, said:

One of the "microfictions" Butcher wrote earlier takes place a handful of months after Peace Talks/Battle Ground and...

Spoiler

there's no mention of Ebenezer on Christmas Eve, despite the "Maybe Great-Grandpa can visit with us at Christmas" bit in Peace Talks.

We also know from that bit that thousands of Chicagoites will die, tens of thousands more will be seriously injured. Already that's not surprising with Ethniu's magical EMP potentially knocking out airplanes, hospital generators, tons of car accidents, etc.

And we know that none of Mab, Molly, Vadderung, Mouse, or Maggie will die.

And it sure seems to imply that several people close to Harry will die.

I kind of agree but there is also a curious absence of Murphy in that microfiction and lets face it Harry isn't going to get any happy ever afters so Murphy is very likely temporary in her current role and it can really only end one way.

Wait, what is this and where do I find it?!

There are 5 of them on Jim Butchers site under Books - > Dresden Files - > Short Stories. Most of them are rather interesting.

This post has been edited by Chance: 28 July 2020 - 10:06 AM

[Tsundoku]

Chance, on 28 July 2020 - 10:06 AM, said:

There are 5 of them on Jim Butchers site under Books - > Dresden Files - > Short Stories. Most of them are rather interesting.

Under the Morgan Microfiction ("Journal") section there is some RPG art and my goodness, the stuff by Mika Kuloda is just amazing!
The rest is quite good too, but I really dig that Kuloda stuff with one slight complaint - Dresden is too short.

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 28 July 2020 - 11:31 AM

[Tattersail_]

Six foot nine is massive. I don't remember it stating his height before.

[D'rek]

Lady Bliss, on 28 July 2020 - 03:30 AM, said:

Chance, on 24 July 2020 - 11:48 PM, said:

D, on 24 July 2020 - 09:56 PM, said:

One of the "microfictions" Butcher wrote earlier takes place a handful of months after Peace Talks/Battle Ground and...

Spoiler

there's no mention of Ebenezer on Christmas Eve, despite the "Maybe Great-Grandpa can visit with us at Christmas" bit in Peace Talks.

We also know from that bit that thousands of Chicagoites will die, tens of thousands more will be seriously injured. Already that's not surprising with Ethniu's magical EMP potentially knocking out airplanes, hospital generators, tons of car accidents, etc.

And we know that none of Mab, Molly, Vadderung, Mouse, or Maggie will die.

And it sure seems to imply that several people close to Harry will die.

I kind of agree but there is also a curious absence of Murphy in that microfiction and lets face it Harry isn't going to get any happy ever afters so Murphy is very likely temporary in her current role and it can really only end one way.

Wait, what is this and where do I find it?!

#1 Mike - Innocuous little vignette about Harry visiting Mike the mechanic

#2 Journal - An entry from Morgan's personal journal from right before Proven Guilty. Mostly just gives a hint of Morgan's state of mind, but the way he refers to Dresden as a possible Destroyer some people think could be a sort of Starborn-related thing, like some past Starborns have been great good people while others have become so bad there's a name for it, Destroyers.

#3 Goodbye - Short (and painful) Kincaid bit around the time of Changes.

#4 Job Placement - Heartwarming follow-up to the Bigfoot trilogy.

#5 Christmas Eve - Takes place *after* Battle Ground.

[Cause]

Wow! Number 2 changes things. A lot.

[End of Disc One]

Regarding the Christmas story, I remember Maggie asking in Peace Talks if her great grandfather would be around for Christmas. I think it's safe to say that their relationship will not be repaired in Battle Ground, if Ebenezar even survives.

[Abyss]

Lady Bliss, on 28 July 2020 - 04:03 AM, said:

So, I just finished the book tonigh...

I agree, it was gross to have Harry eyeing Hope and Ivy, but my thought was that. Butcher WANTED us to think that since he is trying to paint Harry as losing to the dark side, which was a pretty strong theme this book. ...

I took it as weakly written 'Harry as father of little girl has start-shotgun-collection reflex thing' but enough time is spent on the Winter Mantle's influence on Harry that this is an entirely realistic take.

[Abyss]

End of Disc One, on 28 July 2020 - 03:53 PM, said:

Regarding the Christmas story, I remember Maggie asking in Peace Talks if her great grandfather would be around for Christmas. I think it's safe to say that their relationship will not be repaired in Battle Ground, if Ebenezar even survives.

Foreshadowing.
BRUTAL foreshadowing.

[Abyss]

Lady Bliss, on 28 July 2020 - 04:03 AM, said:

... I couldn’t help but feel that by the way that Marcone took charge at the summit meant that he knew what was happening all along, and that he is making a play to be leader of the accords. This would jive to me with Mab making a counterplay using Thomas as bait to get Harry and Lara to do their parts. Ethnios is a third faction entirely.
...

I think it's reasonable / likely that Marcone and Mab fully expected the Fomor to make a play. They may not have anticipated the degree of power behind the Fomor, but likely expected a third player. The renewed attacks at the Gates of WInter, at a minimum, would have been a glaring warning to Mab, and Marcone is just generally six steps ahead.


And i LOVE the notion that most of what plays out is part of Mab, or even better, Marcone's diabolical master plan.

[Abyss]

Lady Bliss, on 28 July 2020 - 04:03 AM, said:

...

Does anyone else think there will be something wrong with Thomas’ baby?

Yes, and dreading.
So SO much set up to go horribly wrong there.
The various factions Grey identified as watching Justine really sets the stage for a disaster.

[Tattersail_]

I've no idea why they are watching her. I'm re-reading this one again. Looking for better clues. Murphy and Dresden went from 0 - 100 in this book. Seems like she's going to die. How many people has Harry had sex with? Lucio is still alive and so is Elaine but both had bad things happen to them. Has any of Harry's love interests faired well? Ebenezer has to die at some point along with a lot of White Council. We also know that he is still part of White Council so the vote must go well?

This post has been edited by Tattersail_: 28 July 2020 - 05:56 PM

[Cyphon]

We should do a pool of predictions for battle ground given how close it is.

[D'rek]

Abyss, on 28 July 2020 - 04:25 PM, said:

Lady Bliss, on 28 July 2020 - 04:03 AM, said:

So, I just finished the book tonigh...

I agree, it was gross to have Harry eyeing Hope and Ivy, but my thought was that. Butcher WANTED us to think that since he is trying to paint Harry as losing to the dark side, which was a pretty strong theme this book. ...

I took it as weakly written 'Harry as father of little girl has start-shotgun-collection reflex thing' but enough time is spent on the Winter Mantle's influence on Harry that this is an entirely realistic take.

Even then, I'm not sold on the value of this "Winter Mantle makes you horny" thing at all.

It's not like Harry didn't have stray thoughts before. It's not like the vampires, fairies, and a ton of other supernaturals weren't all so gorgeous they surpassed a mortal's better reason via pure sex appeal before.

As a plot device / literary device... is the Winter Mantle making Harry horny actually *adding* anything to the books? Sure, have the Winter Mantle still make Harry easy to anger and ruthless when he gets riled up, beating up Binder in Skin Game and having weird thoughts and so on. You could still do all of those parts and have Harry have a risk of falling to the dark side without the horny part.

Besides, since when was freezing cold ice ever thematically associated with increased libido?!


(And yes, I know Cold Case gives an in-world "reason" for why Winter is horny but taking that reason away wouldn't actually change anything else in the books, plus there's no specific reason the reason needs to apply to mortals under Winter like the Knight anyway)

[amphibian]

I'm right there with D'rek on this "noting Ivy and Hope turning into beings that one can see sexual characteristics of" not even being a good plot point if it is one.

It is gross and Butcher needs pushback on this from his editors and advance readers.

[amphibian]

Who is talking about cancelling him?

[Tsundoku]

Sounds like the Winter Knight mantle is just hyper-testosterone and associated prolonged adrenaline combined with a default state of "Fight/Fuck" when it comes to Fight/Flight/Freeze/Appease (Fawn) responses.

And it is colouring his perceptions accordingly. Did all Winter Knights start of as arseholes or did the mantle make them go all Dark Side eventually?
Was the capacity already there and the mantle just kept nudging incessantly (death by a thousand cuts) or did it straight up create the monster?

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 29 July 2020 - 07:37 AM

[Aptorian]

I've been annoyed by the mantle for the last couple books.

It's not enough of an upgrade to make sense. How is the Winter Knight supposed to be the main(?) enforcer of Mab, if it doesn't make Dresden superhuman? We know from Dresden's various adventures and his knowledge of powerful players, that there are much, much more dangerous beings out there than your garden variety vampire or ghoul. Even among the Winter Fae. How is the Winter Knight supposed to be able to handle such problems if Dresden is still all squishy?