[D'rek]

Aptorian, on 29 July 2020 - 08:46 AM, said:

I've been annoyed by the mantle for the last couple books.

It's not enough of an upgrade to make sense. How is the Winter Knight supposed to be the main(?) enforcer of Mab, if it doesn't make Dresden superhuman? We know from Dresden's various adventures and his knowledge of powerful players, that there are much, much more dangerous beings out there than your garden variety vampire or ghoul. Even among the Winter Fae. How is the Winter Knight supposed to be able to handle such problems if Dresden is still all squishy?

I guess the idea is that if Harry stopped resisting the mantle he would get a lot more out of it? Feels like more of a hindrance to the fairies though - you can either have a strong but mindless thug who acts purely on adrenaline and instinct so you have to micromanage them all the time, or you get a Knight that resists the mantle and gets hardly any power out of it.

[Cause]

The winter knight mantle is wierd. I think part of the problem is that originally the knights purpose was to kill mortals. The fae can’t kill mortals, same as they can’t lie. Only the knight can circumvent this rule. The summer knights role apparently is just to block the winter knight.

However we really have to wonder how effective some random like slate would be even at this job.

However the idea that the knight is also now the internal enforcer is wierd. How would slate have battled fae nobles, could he channel infrigga spells even though not a wizard? But there is the loophole that since the knights power is winter itself the defensive Magic’s of winter fae apparently can’t block it. It’s like trying to not hit yourself. Although it’s wierd to see winter fae fall to ice! Video games logic teaches me they should be immune to their own element.

For the most part I think Dresden is the more powerful half of the knight combo and that’s why mab wants him so badly. Slate could never have pulled the hades job for instance.

[Abyss]

Sketchy recall re specifics, but isn't the Winter Knight Mab's enforcer against anyone and anything, fae, mortal, outsider, denarii, telemarketers, people who talk in the movie theater, etc. I don't think we've ever been told the Knight must be mortal, it just happens that Harry and his predecessor were.

The mantle is an investiture of power along with servitude... the Knight has a whole set of 'rules' ie, the bit with Harry being obliged to Lara's fulfill favors on Mab's behalf, and powers, his surefootedness on ice, the upgraded wind and ice powers. So why not side effects. We have a general sense that the Winter COurt serve a necessary function and, at least in part, are savage, primal, and driven, in order to do that. A nice cuddly group of fae wouldn't be nearly as effective at holding the Gate. So hyper aggression, passion, horny... yah i think that all fits.
(and does the reader need Harry semi-lusting after little girls to make the point... no. i still hope that was just badly written dad reflex.)


SPOILER here for Molly's solo story from Brief Cases....
SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER

Spoiler

Molly, sent on a job by Mab to collect 'tribute', has to gather up a bunch of fae kids for sacrificial soldier duty. She does it. She goes so far as to massacre the shit out of a bunch of other (admittedly evil deep one) fae to do so. And when her 'human' nature threatens to displace the mantle by victory sex with Ramirez, the mantle takes over and flat out cripples the poor guy. Molly, the Winter Lady, is unable to control her own Mantle. The mere fact that Harry does says a tonne about him, and sets the stage for struggle and either capitulation or restraint.

[Cause]

The knight is stated as having to be mortal. I’m sure of it. It’s also as I say def mentioned in one of the books that the knights purpose is to be an asdsssin of mortals and the summer knights role is to counter. I think Harry and fix maybe have this convo in cold days.

Also it’s mentioned that the mantle of winter lady is much more powerful and much more specific. Molly therefore has less chance to resist it than Harry does his. Harry can still lie I believe, molly for example couldn’t. We are told that in a century you’d probably not be able to tell molly apart from Maeve at all but with the knights I think it’s different. Harry being a wizard I think makes him prob one of the strongest knights in ages.

This post has been edited by Cause: 29 July 2020 - 06:13 PM

[Tattersail_]

Just a thought as I read the Mab and Lara chapter in the back of the car.

Mab usually strikes a bargain knowing what is about to happen so that she'll have the upper hand. I'm fuzzy on this but didn't she make a bargain with Harry in the Graveyard early in one of the books and then after agreeing to it Harry realises he could have done it without her help? Maybe it was leaninsidhe or whatever her name is.

My point is that Mab made this deal with Harry and Lara before Harry and Lara learn of Thomas. It is literally the next thing Harry sees (home on fire). So do we think Mab told Thomas about Etri/Justin or gave Thomas information to act or knew of it beforehand?

Surely

[Cause]

Wierd I have never really thought of it this way before.

Vauderang is Odin, is the winter king/santa clause. He tells us that mantles can be worn, discarded etc. so is Odin who he really is or is Odin just another mantle he wears. Who is he at his core? Clearly an ancient and massive power, taught the first Merlin, helped humanity defeat the forest people and has the respect of a titan.

[Blend]

Finished it today.

My predictions - Thomas will kill Murphy by accident, Harry will kill Thomas in a fit of rage, Lara will kill Ebenezar as revenge.

Either way, Battle Ground should be an absolutely crazy book!!

[Blend]

Though another prediction completely discounts the above.

Christos is actually a good guy, McCoy is a bad guy, and Cristos will kill McCoy

[Tattersail_]

Butters blade that hurts monsters but not humans will kill Thomas' hunger.

Murphy has once again in this book told she will grow wings. The valkyries love her. Dresdens wizard site early in the series saw her with wings. So either guardian angel or Valk.

I think we wont find out in this book though, I think we will see her die.

Who is the second crystal for?

[Blend]

Tattersail_, on 25 August 2020 - 05:46 AM, said:

Butters blade that hurts monsters but not humans will kill Thomas' hunger.

Murphy has once again in this book told she will grow wings. The valkyries love her. Dresdens wizard site early in the series saw her with wings. So either guardian angel or Valk.

I think we wont find out in this book though, I think we will see her die.

Who is the second crystal for?

Isnt it for Ethniu? Like he grabbed a crystal and the athame didnt he?

[Tattersail_]

He grabbed 2.. one for her and..

[Tattersail_]

It's the best series imo. I think about it a lot more than any other book series including Malazan.

[Gwynn ap Nudd]

Briar King, on 28 July 2020 - 10:20 PM, said:

I was kinda thrown for a loop with Dresden monologue about Norte Dame “before the fire” bit. Just felt off somehow to me.

The 160 decibel Happy Birthday song did that for me. That's loud enough to risk bursting your ear drums and is likely instant permanent hearing loss. No comments are made afterwards about even ringing ears. Just took away the suspension of disbelief.

Some parts of the book felt off. Most of it was enjoyable on a quick first read (the Eb/Harry fight still seemed forced) but I tried to reread looking for clues and more stuff seemed odd. E.g. the quick to anger Harry and Eb were reminiscent of Harry when he was under the influence of Lash, not the Winter Knight mantle (and the scene that was brought up regarding Eb's dislike of vampires was the ghoul fight when Harry was under the influence). The point that Ramirez placed the tracking device on Harry when they shook hands, which they never did. Or that someone summoned outsiders in Chicago and looking for the reason why Thomas attacked Etri were brought up once and not dealt with further.

A decent read first time, but low on my list of best Dresden books. I get that some issues are from the book being split in two, I just hope that means we don't have the typical pages of rehashing things I already know in the next one.

[QuickTidal]

D, on 15 July 2020 - 10:51 PM, said:

3) Butcher has gone completely out of control with making every female character "inhumanly" attractive and/or having Harry get the hots for all of them. We've got actual-OTP Karrin, and Mab and Lara being their usual immortal sex-goddesses, sure, Justine still needs her requisite description of being a glamour model, PLUS Butters' werewolf threesome, fine I'm happy for Butters, but we also need Harry repeatedly noticing Molly's curves and her kissing him on the mouth for some reason, PLUS Freydis flirting and suggesting a threesome (which would never happen anyways, it's completely out of character for the other two, so what purpose does this even serve?), and if all that weren't enough we Harry also needs to descriptively notice how the older teenage girls like Hope and Ivy are starting to get "curves" or whatever I thought it was especially hilarious when Lara suddenly attacks Harry and instead of having any sort of defensive combat instinct the winter mantle immediately goes into horny mode instead. Yeah, I know, this is hardly a new thing for the series.

Just finished it and this is EXACTLY my biggest take from it (I mean I liked it, and I'm happy to see what happens in BG which I'm going to read right now). It's been building for a while, but FFS the descriptions of everyone being a porn star or supermodel level beauty is now exhausting.

How did he describe Eithne? Chocolate and sex, and a warm bath or some shit? Good lord Jim.

But then, this is a dude who divorced his author ex and ended up married to an *ahem; Dresden Male Gaze Voice*: busty, corseted, steampunk cosplayer woman with brightly coloured hair, with Renn Faire appeal who is about 17 years his junior...so I think he's just living vicariously through Dresden, or his life is spicier? I have no idea, but it's almost ramped up in this book to untenable levels and I rolled my eyes often. It was typical Dresden Male Gaze taken to eleventy.

and yes the comments about Hope and Ivy are REALLY off-side. I recall him doing something mildly similar to Molly in Proven Guilty when she was underage...and I think I chalked it up to a one-off...but now it's just gross.

Overall a weaker Dresden entry, but you can tell it's half and BG contains the rest. Perhaps my opinion will improve with the next book.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 30 September 2020 - 07:29 PM