[Aptorian]

True. Which figured into that remark about Toblakai becoming a Warren onto themselves.

Anyway reached p. 234. Karsa met Keeper. Which I assume is Urko Crust. That body blow where Karsa manages a surprised look of unfeigned admiration before passing out always made me chuckle.

[Aptorian]

P. 236

‘The lessons of civilization.’ ‘Just so. There’s little value in seeking to find reasons for why people do what they do, or feel the way they feel. Hatred is a most pernicious weed, finding root in any kind of soil. It feeds on itself.’ ‘With words.’ ‘Indeed, with words. Form an opinion, say it often enough and pretty soon everyone’s saying it right back at you, and then it becomes a conviction, fed by unreasoning anger and defended with weapons of fear. At which point, words become useless and you’re left with a fight to the death.’ Karsa grunted. ‘A fight beyond death, I would say.’ ‘True enough. Generation after generation.’

---

This conversation is painfully relevant today.

[Aptorian]

P. 248.

Karsa's captured again and put in chains. No wonder he becomes so obsessed with breaking chains, freeing slaves and bringing down civilization.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 19 April 2020 - 06:23 AM

[Aptorian]

Finished part 1. Excellent read. I think this part the most effortless writing I've seen of Erikson yet in the re-read. The narrative just flows.

Began part 2. The exchange between the new noble born captain, Ranal, and strings is great stuff. I'm also suddenly reminded of Ranal's fate. Heh.

[Aptorian]

P. 296

Tavore and Gamet speak with Admiral Nok.

‘The answer to your question,’ the admiral said, ‘lies in what was both a strength and a flaw of the Emperor’s . . . family. The family that he gathered to raise an empire. Kellanved began with but one companion — Dancer. The two then hired a handful of locals in Malaz City and set about conquering the criminal element in the city — I should point out, that criminal element happened to rule the entire island. Their target was Mock, Malaz Island’s unofficial ruler. A pirate, and a cold-blooded killer.’ ‘Who were these first hirelings, Admiral?’ ‘Myself, Ameron, Dujek, a woman named Hawl — my wife. I had been First Mate to a corsair that worked the sea lanes around the Napan Isles — which had just been annexed by Unta and were providing a staging point for the Untan king’s planned invasion of Kartool. We’d taken a beating and had limped into Malaz Harbour, only to have the ship and its crew arrested by Mock, who was negotiating a trade of prisoners with Unta. Only Ameron and Hawl and I escaped. A lad named Dujek discovered where we were holed up and he delivered us to his new employers. Kellanved and Dancer.’ ‘Was this before they were granted entry into the Deadhouse?’ Gamet asked. ‘Aye, but only just. Our residency in the Deadhouse rewarded us with — as is now clearly evident — certain gifts. Longevity, immunity to most diseases, and . . . other things. The Deadhouse also provided us with an unassailable base of operations. Dancer later bolstered our numbers by recruiting among the refugee Napans who’d fled the conquest: Cartheron Crust and his brother, Urko. And Surly — Laseen. Three more men were to follow shortly thereafter. Toc Elder, Dassem Ultor — who was, like Kellanved, of Dal Honese blood — and a renegade High Septarch of the D’rek Cult, Tayschrenn. And finally, Duiker.’ He half smiled at Tavore. ‘The family. With which Kellanved conquered Malaz Island. Swiftly done, with minimal losses . . .’ Minimal . . . ‘Your wife,’ Gamet said. ‘Yes, her.’ After a long moment, he shrugged and continued, ‘To answer you, Adjunct. Unknown to the rest of us, the Napans among us were far more than simple refugees. Surly was of the royal line. Crust and Urko had been captains in the Napan fleet, a fleet that would have likely repelled the Untans if it hadn’t been virtually destroyed by a sudden storm. As it turned out, theirs was a singular purpose — to crush the Untan hegemony — and they planned on using Kellanved to achieve that. In a sense, that was the first betrayal within the family, the first fissure. Easily healed, it seemed, since Kellanved already possessed imperial ambitions, and of the two major rivals on the mainland, Unta was by far the fiercest.’

---

There is much in that retelling that does not fit together with the new Path to Ascendance books.

Also, though Nok claims Hawl died during the conquest of Malaz Island, does Hawl not show up later in the book among the dead on Drift Avalii?

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 19 April 2020 - 08:18 AM

[Aptorian]

P. 306

Apsalar's father, Rellock, passed away.

Crokus had awakened to soft weeping. Sitting up, he had seen Apsalar kneeling beside the still form of her father. There were plenty of footprints on the floor of the shack from the previous evening’s random explorations, but Crokus noted one set in particular, prints large and far apart yet far too lightly pressed into the damp sand. A silent arrival in the night just past, crossing the single chamber to stand square-footed beside Rellock. Where it had gone after that left no markings in the sand. A shiver rippled through the Daru. It was one thing for an old man to die in his sleep, but it was another for Hood himself — or one of his minions — to physically arrive to collect the man’s soul.

---

I wonder about him.

What merrited a personal visit by one of Hood's servants?

Maybe there was much more to Rellock than just a fisherman? I assumed the abilities hinted at in DG, increased strength, shapeshifting, was shadow related but perhaps Rellock was someone else, something more before he grew old and tended nets.

[Macros]

I thought that too, but the Malazan on drift Avalii is a talon?

[Keysi]

Casting our minds back to deadhouse gates and the will she wI'll she of who will become Shai'k reborn between Apsalar and Felisin, I do believe the fight with Tavore would have gone he other way in an instant had it been Apsalar.

[Macros]

Would have been a different book for sure.

Speaker wouldn't have tolerated all the scheming at the least

[Aptorian]

I like to imagine that Apsalar and Karsa would have teamed up and gone on some bloody great adventures.

[Abyss]

Apsalar as Shaik wouldn't need bodyguards.
Or an army.

[JPK]

From chapter 10, discussing Tavore's army. Karsa to Leoman:

Quote

"Karsa shook his head. 'I have come to respect the Malazans, and fear that you would awaken them to themselves.'"

Yes, he does Karsa. Very muchly so.

[Aptorian]

I'm around p. 600 Karsa just ran into Ryllandaras before he encounters Icarium and Mappo. I'd forgotten that meeting. It's still awesome.

But I'm confused by Ryllandaras appearing. Am I mistaking names or isn't Ryllandaras also the wolf monster that hunts around Li Heng? Did Ryllandaras shunt his bad aspects into that version and travel to a different continent?

[JPK]

Aptorian, on 30 April 2020 - 05:53 PM, said:

I'm around p. 600 Karsa just ran into Ryllandaras before he encounters Icarium and Mappo. I'd forgotten that meeting. It's still awesome.

But I'm confused by Ryllandaras appearing. Am I mistaking names or isn't Ryllandaras also the wolf monster that hunts around Li Heng? Did Ryllandaras shunt his bad aspects into that version and travel to a different continent?

So Ryllandaras appeared early in chapter one in DG in a scene with Mappo and Icarium as he was on the Path of Hands. It also mentioned there that he has changed shifting from jackals to wolves.

[JPK]

Some quote-fu.

Quote

Half a dozen tawny shapes appeared out of a gloom that seemed of its own making, less than thirty strides away. At twenty paces the wolves spread out into an open half-circle facing Mappo and Icarium. The spicy scent of D'ivers filled the still night air. One of the lithe beasts edged forward, then stopped as Icarium raised his bow.
"Not six," Icarium muttered, "but one."
"I know him," Mappo said. "A shame he can't say the same of us. He is uncertain, but he's taken a blood-spilling form. Tonight, Ryllandaras hunts in the desert. Does he hunt us or something else, I wonder?"
Icarium shrugged. "Who shall speak first, Mappo?"
"Me," the Trell replied, taking a step forward. This would require guile and cunning. A mistake would prove deadly. He pitched his voice low and wry. "A long way from home, aren't we. Your brother Treach had it in mind that he killed you. Where was that chasm? Dal Hon? Or was it Li Heng? You were D'ivers Jackels then, I seem to recall."

This post has been edited by JPK: 30 April 2020 - 06:40 PM

[Aptorian]

Interesting that Ryllandaras or any given Divers can exist separated from it's parts and the individual part can grow in strength.

Anyway I'm on p. 658

Quote

It was the old witch, Cutter saw, the one who had been burned. The one I thought was the source of power in the Malazan party. But it wasn’t her. It was Traveller. He halted a few paces away, brought up short by Cotillion’s expression, the ravaged look that made him suddenly appear twenty years older. The gloved hand that had swept the hair back now caressed the dead woman’s scorched face. ‘You knew her?’ Cutter asked. ‘Hawl,’ he replied after a moment. ‘I’d thought Surly had taken them all out. None of the Talon’s command left. I thought she was dead.’ ‘She is.’ Then he snapped his mouth shut. A damned miserable thing to say— ‘I made them good at hiding,’ Cotillion went on, eyes still on the woman lying in the bloody, trampled grass. ‘Good enough to hide even from me, it seems.’ ‘What do you think she was doing here?’ Cotillion flinched slightly. ‘The wrong question, Cutter. Rather, why was she with Traveller? What is the Talon up to? And Traveller . . . gods, did he know who she was? Of course he did — oh, she’s aged and not well, but even so . . .’ ‘You could just ask him,’ Cutter murmured, grunting as he shifted Apsalar’s weight in his arms. ‘He’s in the courtyard behind us, after all.’ Cotillion reached down to the woman’s neck and lifted into view something strung on a thong. A yellow-stained talon of some sort. He pulled it loose, studied it for a moment, then twisted round and flung it towards Cutter. It struck his chest, then fell to lie in Apsalar’s lap. The Daru stared down at it for a moment, then looked up and met the god’s eyes. ‘Go to the Edur ship, Cutter. I am sending you two to another . . . agent of ours.’ ‘To do what?’ ‘To wait. In case you are needed.’ ‘For what?’ ‘To assist others in taking down the Master of the Talon.’ ‘Do you know where he or she is?’ He lifted Hawl into his arms and straightened. ‘I have a suspicion. Now, finally, a suspicion about all of this.’

Okay so Hawl was a Talon. That explains why she disappeared. The relationship between her and Nok is still interesting. They we're husband and wife. Separated for a decade. Did Nok know Hawl was a Talon and knew she was in hiding or did he believe she died long ago? And if the claw were hunting talons and making purges, why was Nok not removed? They must have doubted his allegiance.

Also interesting that Cotillion sends Aps and cutter after the Talon Master. I don't remember that story line. Why would Cotillion want the Master of the Talon removed? Earlier in the book he wasn't even aware Talon still existed?

[Aptorian]

I think I've recognised what made me less enamoured with HOC compared to the other early books. It's the whole gathering of the apocalypse. The whole thing is too unstable, too fractured, doomed to destroy itself before the Malazans even arrive, which makes it a paltry fulcrum for the convergence. It pales in comparison to what we saw building in MOI.

Also I don't like or care about most of the characters in the camp. In that sense I guess Erikson has done well, I want them destroyed for their betrayals.

But I also find myself liking the book more now again when Karsa has resumed his adventures. I just read the passage where he makes his new sword and sends the Unbound packing. Awesome stuff.

I would have loved if Erikson had spun Karsa off into a separate series of books, where he just goes on Conan the Barbarian adventures in the Malazan world.

[Aptorian]

P. 690 Karsa meets the Jaghut, Cynnigig. And I mistaken or doesn't the name Cynnigig appar in some of the chapter openings? Hmm.

[Macros]

hard agree on the apocalypse encampment. Too many wankers

[Aptorian]

Just read the Scorpion fight tournament section on p. 749. Still awesome. I love these little games the soldiers organize to keep sane. Joyful Union indeed.