Malazan Empire: 2020 Malazan Re-read: House of Chains - Malazan Empire

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2020 Malazan Re-read: House of Chains Starts April 1st

#41 User is offline   ArchieVist 

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Posted 11 April 2020 - 03:01 PM

Cyphon said:

Went on down a rabbit hole on tvtropes and found this on House of Chains

Real Life Writes the Plot: As with the rest of the series, certain parts of the book were played out as roleplaying game campaigns first. In this book, per This example contains a TRIVIA entry. It should be moved to the TRIVIA tab.Word of God, most of the Karsa Orlong segment in the first part was taken from such a section, where Steven Erikson deliberately distorted the descriptions to the detriment of the person playing as Karsa. Eventually, the player got fed up and, in a moment of frustration, decided to attack an important character who was just introduced. Thus, the scene where the Tiste Edur on Silanda are killed was created, setting the stage for their appearance in Deadhouse Gates.

Does anyone know if this is true. I'm not surprised just not certain of its truth.


It's true.

Quote

amphibian: Did creating the layered backstory of the Silanda amuse you as much as it did us readers? Was Karsa always in the planning as the one to board and leave it derelict?

Steven: Yeah, we'd gamed that encounter. As I recall, I was surprised when Mark announced that Karsa was throwing his spear into Binadas' chest. I suspect Mark was acting out of immense frustration, as the world kept shitting on Karsa big-time. He'd probably had enough! But I enjoyed staying loyal to that gamed sequence, and set it there to drift mysteriously through quite a few books

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#42 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 12 April 2020 - 01:02 PM

And so ends book 4 of the Malazan book of the fallen.

My gripes with this remain the same, inconsistencies in power levelling and the constant Deus ex that is the Adjunct and her foreknowledge.

Outside of that, It's probably the easiest of the series to read on a base level, due to a lack of complication and a relatively linear story.

Looking forward to MT
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#43 User is offline   Traveller 

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Posted 12 April 2020 - 07:12 PM

Oh man I'm just starting. Need to catch up.
So that's the story. And what was the real lesson? Don't leave things in the fridge.
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#44 User is offline   Keysi 

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Posted 12 April 2020 - 09:20 PM

I'm actually enjoying the Karsa story far more than I thought I would.

A low altar caught Karsa’s attention. Some lowlander god, signified by a small clay statue — a boar, standing on its hind legs.

The Teblor knocked it to the earthen floor, then shattered it with a single stomp of his heel.

Beautiful foreshadowing here 😃.

That''s how far along I am, i.e not very far, but will be making plenty if time up over the next few days.

This post has been edited by Keysi: 12 April 2020 - 09:28 PM

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#45 User is offline   Keysi 

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Posted 12 April 2020 - 09:21 PM

View PostStalker, on 11 April 2020 - 10:23 AM, said:

I just finished last night. It had been years since my last reread (think I read 1-8 before the release of DoD, so 10 years) so I sped through this one.

In the recent podcast for DG, Erikson spoke about religion and how the upcoming Karsa trilogy will have a religion built around Coltaine. It seems clear from the early parts of this book, retracing the Chain of Dogs, that he and anyone involved in the Fall are venerated. It will be interesting to see how this changes to worship 10 years following TCG.

Anyway, really enjoyed this. Karsa’s parts were great and I enjoyed his growth from 1 dimensional slaughterer of “children”, the forming of the Bonehunters and Fiddler / Stormy / Gesler’s role in that, the convergence in Raraku, etc. I do like how the epilogue of Trull beginning to tell his tale leads into the MT prologue of his shorning. It’s a nice touch.



Which podcast? The ten very big books one? Still making my way through that. Or another one?
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#46 User is offline   Keysi 

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Posted 12 April 2020 - 09:53 PM

Your studious, deliberate corruption of the Sunyd is unique, Silgar. Your destruction of that tribe was a business venture on your part. Damned successful it was, too.


Pretty much what the Letherii are all about too. Except the Letherii were the masters of it.
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#47 User is online   Stalker 

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Posted 13 April 2020 - 01:02 AM

View PostKeysi, on 12 April 2020 - 09:21 PM, said:

View PostStalker, on 11 April 2020 - 10:23 AM, said:

I just finished last night. It had been years since my last reread (think I read 1-8 before the release of DoD, so 10 years) so I sped through this one.

In the recent podcast for DG, Erikson spoke about religion and how the upcoming Karsa trilogy will have a religion built around Coltaine. It seems clear from the early parts of this book, retracing the Chain of Dogs, that he and anyone involved in the Fall are venerated. It will be interesting to see how this changes to worship 10 years following TCG.

Anyway, really enjoyed this. Karsa’s parts were great and I enjoyed his growth from 1 dimensional slaughterer of “children”, the forming of the Bonehunters and Fiddler / Stormy / Gesler’s role in that, the convergence in Raraku, etc. I do like how the epilogue of Trull beginning to tell his tale leads into the MT prologue of his shorning. It’s a nice touch.



Which podcast? The ten very big books one? Still making my way through that. Or another one?


That’s the one. Seems like they are trying to do an interview with Erikson after finishing each book. Too bad they aren’t moving at the same clip we are.
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#48 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 14 April 2020 - 04:39 AM

Back to HOC. Going to give the reread more attention.

I'm on p. 125, the attack on the "farm" has gone to shit. Just read the passage where Karsa blesses Gnaw. I hope that wardog returns in the new book.

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Karsa found the last, darkest stall, where he set Gnaw down on the straw. ‘I shall return to you, my friend,’ he whispered. ‘Failing that, find a way to heal, then journey home. Home, among the Uryd.’ The Teblor cut a thong of leather from his armour strappings. He tore from his belt-bag a handful of bronze sigils bearing the tribal signs, then strung the thong through them. None hung loose, and so would make no sound. He tied the makeshift collar round Gnaw’s thick, muscled neck. Then he laid one hand lightly upon the dog’s shattered hip and closed his eyes. ‘I gift this beast the soul of the Teblor, the heart of the Uryd. Urugal, hear me. Heal this great fighter. Then send him home. For now, bold Urugal, hide him.’ He withdrew his hand and opened his eyes. The beast looked up at him calmly. ‘Make fierce your long life, Gnaw. We will meet again, this I vow upon the blood of all the children I have slain this day.’ Shifting grip on his bloodsword, Karsa turned away and departed the stall without another backward glance.

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#49 User is offline   Whisperzzzzzzz 

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Posted 16 April 2020 - 01:29 AM

Apsalar and Cutter talking aboard the Edur ship on their departure from Drift Avalii:

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"Meaning the wielders of a warren can affect its nature. My late uncle would have found the notion fascinating. Not desecration, then, but denigration."

She slowly glanced around. "Rashan. Meanas. Thyr."

He comprehended the thought. "You think all warrens accessible to humans are in fact denigrations of Elder Warrens."

She raised her hands then. "Even blood decays."


This is quite a powerful allusion from Apsalar. Does she know that the warrens are K'rul's veins? Is this something that Cotillion would know?
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#50 User is offline   Cyphon 

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Posted 16 April 2020 - 08:46 AM

So what is the denigration of starvald dem...(sp?) the dragons one... the Beast hold into lords of war?
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#51 User is offline   Keysi 

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Posted 16 April 2020 - 07:16 PM

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I suspect, should Darujhistan ever become part of the Malazan Empire, the empire will be like that shark, and Darujhistan like Borrug. We’ll choke the beast that swallows us.’


Again, another comment in HoC that a plies even more strongly to the Letheri. Very interesting.
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#52 User is offline   Keysi 

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Posted 16 April 2020 - 07:20 PM

View PostAptorian, on 14 April 2020 - 04:39 AM, said:

Back to HOC. Going to give the reread more attention.

I'm on p. 125, the attack on the "farm" has gone to shit. Just read the passage where Karsa blesses Gnaw. I hope that wardog returns in the new book.




On the reread and knowing about the upcoming trilogy so much jumps out at me that are set ups for them. I cannot wait.
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#53 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 17 April 2020 - 06:37 AM

View PostWhisperzzzzzzz, on 16 April 2020 - 01:29 AM, said:

Apsalar and Cutter talking aboard the Edur ship on their departure from Drift Avalii:

Quote

"Meaning the wielders of a warren can affect its nature. My late uncle would have found the notion fascinating. Not desecration, then, but denigration."

She slowly glanced around. "Rashan. Meanas. Thyr."

He comprehended the thought. "You think all warrens accessible to humans are in fact denigrations of Elder Warrens."

She raised her hands then. "Even blood decays."


This is quite a powerful allusion from Apsalar. Does she know that the warrens are K'rul's veins? Is this something that Cotillion would know?


I'd assume so, Kel and Dancer seemed to know and learn a great many things. But I dont think the allusion necessarily is related to Krul.


View PostCyphon, on 16 April 2020 - 08:46 AM, said:

So what is the denigration of starvald dem...(sp?) the dragons one... the Beast hold into lords of war?


The Dragon Warren was closed off right? I also seem to recall a quote about Kurakd Galain and Starwald Demalain being the twin chambers of Kruls heart.
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#54 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 17 April 2020 - 06:42 AM

I'm on p. 140 and noticed that Torvald Moms nickname is Knuckles. Probably just a reference to him being a lucky bastard but still a funny reference given the Knuckles we meet later.
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#55 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 17 April 2020 - 06:53 AM

P. 146

The woman spoke. ‘Bring the Uryd, in all your numbers. When you have slain everyone in this town, then you can settle judgement upon us Sunyd, as will be your right.’ Karsa hesitated, then he nodded. ‘Ganal, I give you more of your miserable life. But I shall come once more, and I shall remember you.’ ‘I have no doubt, Uryd,’ Ganal replied. ‘Not any more.’

---

Ganal. Another name it will be interesting to see if shows up again.
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#56 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 17 April 2020 - 08:17 AM

View PostKeysi, on 12 April 2020 - 09:20 PM, said:

I'm actually enjoying the Karsa story far more than I thought I would.

A low altar caught Karsa’s attention. Some lowlander god, signified by a small clay statue — a boar, standing on its hind legs.

The Teblor knocked it to the earthen floor, then shattered it with a single stomp of his heel.

Beautiful foreshadowing here 😃.

That''s how far along I am, i.e not very far, but will be making plenty if time up over the next few days.


Just read this bit. It's gloriously rewarding when having read the rest of the series.
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#57 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 17 April 2020 - 08:41 AM

Read the rape scene on p. 151. No less palatable years later though it's thankfully brief.

Then there's the capture by the Malazans. I'd forgotten how much destructive potential Erikson built in to Karsa. So heavy eight people have to carry him, flesh like wood, super healing, super strength, mind control of his own bodily functions, shrugs off magic like it's a water hose and all this over a twenty four ish hour period where he doesn't drink or eat anything and continues on with no discernible slowing down after a nap dispite losing who knows how much blood.


Karsa is one of the most formidable Fantasy characters I've read about. And this is early in his adventures.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 17 April 2020 - 08:42 AM

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#58 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 18 April 2020 - 08:36 AM

P. 206.

Karsa comes upon the Edur in the nascent realm.

Two steps down, into a wide galley with a wooden table in its centre. A second doorway at the opposite end, a narrow passage beyond, lined by berths, then an ornate door that squealed as Karsa shoved it aside. Four attackers, a fury of blows exchanged, Karsa blocking with the harpoon and counter-attacking with the bloodsword. In moments, four broken bodies dying on the cabin’s gleaming wooden floor. A fifth figure, seated in a chair on the other side of the room, hands raised, sorcery swirling into the air. With a snarl, Karsa surged forward. The magic flashed, sputtered, then the harpoon’s point punched into the figure’s chest, tore through and drove into the chair’s wood backing. A look of disbelief frozen on the grey face, eyes locking with Karsa’s own one last time, before all life left them. ‘Urugal! Witness a Teblor’s rage!’

------

It's curious that the Edurs magic didn't work against Karsa. Isn't Otataral only supposed to work on Warren magic?

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 18 April 2020 - 08:36 AM

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#59 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 18 April 2020 - 08:44 AM

P 209

Darkness, and living blind. Karsa returned his gaze to the Daru kneeling and wrapping severed heads, there on the mizzen deck. And who has dragged the cloth from my eyes? Who has awakened Karsa Orlong, son of Synyg? Urugal? No, not Urugal. He knew that for certain, for the otherworldly rage he had felt in the cabin, that icy breath that had swept through him — that had belonged to his god. A fierce displeasure — to which Karsa had found himself oddly . . . indifferent. The Seven Faces in the Rock never spoke of freedom. The Teblor were their servants. Their slaves.

-----

Interesting that Urugal showed anger at the death of the Edur. They are of course also a kind of servants of the Crippled God and the House of Chains.
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#60 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 18 April 2020 - 06:53 PM

Also there was the line from the Jaghut later, ignorance honed into a weapon, possibly a combination of otataral and this
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