[Macros]

Good to see the pubs reopening was understated and low key from everyone.

Well done you folks for not piling in like a fucking free for all.

Oh wait.....

[Maark Abbott]

Macros, on 13 April 2021 - 07:33 AM, said:

Good to see the pubs reopening was understated and low key from everyone.

Well done you folks for not piling in like a fucking free for all.

Oh wait.....

Word from pals in Tarn is that there were queues from the pub from the early hours (as in midnight) and hairdresser queues twenty deep.

In the words of that one chap, ah shit, here we go again.

[Gorefest]

To be fair though, most if not all of the vulnerable groups have had at least one jab now. So it would actually be interesting to see what happens now and how well the vaccine protects/prevents as well as reduces severity. We are going to start a test with Oxford where we examine the efficacy of combining different vaccines (e.g. first shot with Pfizer, second with AZ, or first shot AZ, booster Moderna). I'm also finally allowed to hire some additional tech staff, just when the trial weeks are moving further apart. I needed these people in bloody November, dammit.

[Macros]

People are still fuckwits

[Malankazooie]

One does not simply walk into Mordor.

[amphibian]

I got my first Moderna vaccine on Saturday. The next/last will be on May 8.

Really happy about this.

[Mezla PigDog]

Gorefest, on 13 April 2021 - 09:00 AM, said:

To be fair though, most if not all of the vulnerable groups have had at least one jab now. So it would actually be interesting to see what happens now and how well the vaccine protects/prevents as well as reduces severity. We are going to start a test with Oxford where we examine the efficacy of combining different vaccines (e.g. first shot with Pfizer, second with AZ, or first shot AZ, booster Moderna). I'm also finally allowed to hire some additional tech staff, just when the trial weeks are moving further apart. I needed these people in bloody November, dammit.

Yeah I'm really curious to see the infection rate vs the hospitalization rate too. The dynamics of it all should change now but how far will be interesting to see.

I want a vaccine damnit!

[Tiste Simeon]

Getting my first this morning, second in July. Looking forward to being able to transmit 5G and interfacing seamlessly with Microsoft products.

[Maark Abbott]

My wife said Bill is quite pleasant once you get used to him being there. I said he's a billionaire, he's still made of food. She laughed, I laughed, he laughed, it was a fun time.

[Macros]

 IMG-20210414-WA0000.jpg (51.33K)
Number of downloads: 0

Unsure of accuracy, but believable numbers in my mind

[Gorefest]

Believable, but unfortunately also misleading. Blood clots are a fairly common occurrence in a lot of medical conditions and drug side-effects. But it is the type of clot that makes a big difference. The clotting issues that have been found in predominantly younger women after the Az and J&J vaccinations are a very rare type of cerebral clotting disorder linked with low platelets counts, which are far more difficult to monitor and treat. So whereas blood clotting issues are a known and 'relatively common' side effect in e.g. women on birth control, these types of clots usually develop in the lower limbs and can be treated quite effectively with blood thinners such as heparin. This is not the case for these cerebral clotting problems, which are very difficult to spot until it is too late and often carry very severe outcomes.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 14 April 2021 - 10:08 AM

[Macros]

Ok

Good to know some more of the nitty gritty of this, so in essence those 4 Cases (based on pictures numbers) are considerably more dangerous in each instance then?

Even with that though, percentages wise (again based on above numbers and nothing else, I have done no research) Surely of the 500-1200 at least 4 of those would be bloody serious things?

Genuine curiosity, I have zero medical knowledge or background so I like to hear stuff from people with actual learning or research in the field.
I feel like the blood clots from covid Number is ridiculously high also, I mean sure if 16% of people who caught covid got a blood clot it would be spread over every newspaper in the world?

[Gorefest]

The blood clot issue linked to the AZ and J&J jabs is very rare but also very serious (i.e. the outcome is much worse - death, paralysis, etc) compared to more common clotting issues. However, as you correctly highlight, at the same time the scale of the occurrences is very low. So for instance where normally you'd expect to see this occur in 3-4 young women per million in a certain time frame, we now see it in 10-12 women per million after vaccination. Still a really small number of cases, but there does seem to be a tentative link with the vaccines. However, there also have been cases reported with Pfizer and clotting.

So the real question is: are these cases linked to the vaccines themselves, or is it a specific reaction to the coronavirus 'spike' protein, which is the central compound generated by all these vaccines? If the latter, then not vaccinating would be just as dangerous, as women could get it from getting infected. But we simply don't know yet at this time, because the numbers are so very small that it is really difficult to draw any meaningful and statistically significant conclusions.

On that basis, personally I'd argue that continuing with the vaccinations and thereby ensuring overall protection of the population is favourable over delaying or stopping treatment. But then again, I am not a healthy woman in my thirties, so it is easy for me to say that. If there is indeed proof that e.g. the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines have less risk of this complication, it would be good to switch young women over to those where feasible. But at this point in time we don't even know if that is the case. What we do know is that not vaccinating is actually carrying a much bigger risk overall.

So damned if you do, damned if you don't. And further clinical data on this will be slow in coming as it is such a rare event.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 14 April 2021 - 11:33 AM

[Cause]

Seems like an over reaction to me.

South Africa after getting rid of its AstraZeneca supply and replacing it with Johnson and Johnson is now pausing that too. So the country essentially has zero vaccination efforts underway.

Madness

[Aptorian]

Denmark has chosen to stop using AztraZenica and the J&J vaccine is also being halted I believe.

We wont be done with full population vaccination before august now.

Doubt I'll get contacted before july.

[Primateus]

Aptorian, on 14 April 2021 - 02:45 PM, said:

Denmark has chosen to stop using AztraZenica and the J&J vaccine is also being halted I believe.

We wont be done with full population vaccination before august now.

Doubt I'll get contacted before july.

It's unlikely I will be contacted before then either. But I did manage to get a clean bill of health from the test so I could get a haircut.

It's the little things...

[QuickTidal]

Both AZ and J&J have fallen WELL under the normal population risk numbers I think.

For J&J it's 6 cases in 6.8million administered, and of those 6 people, 1 died, 1 is in critical care, and the other 4 made it out okay. So 2 bad scenario cases in 6.8million...that's lower than the risk of taking Tylenol and having an adverse reaction from a data standpoint (too much in the wrong people can cause liver failure and death).

And AZ is similar in numbers of cases VS administered (all of the UK who have had doses?) ...

And in both situations, it's younger women on birth control (a medicine that already has blood clot warnings!) who have been affected.

So I think it's madness and causing vaccine hesitancy where there should be none.

[QuickTidal]

Adding in some data:

Risk of AZ clots: 39 people out of 10 million

Risk of J&J clots: 9 out of 10 million

Risk of clots from Birth Control Pills: 5,000 - 12,000 out of 10 million

Risk of clots from smoking: 17,630 people out of 10 million

Risk of clots from COVID-19: 1,650,000 people out of 10 million.

[Gorefest]

Different types of clots.

[QuickTidal]

Gorefest, on 14 April 2021 - 03:48 PM, said:

Different types of clots.

How is that applicable?

The whole thing it still well under the typical population risk threshold. You have a better chance of acetaminophen causing a stroke than getting a clot from the AZ or J&J vaccines, or getting hit by a car and dying on your way to get the jab...

Like I get it, study the clots...but the two vaccines are getting a stigma attached to them that will not only fuel asinine Anti-Vaxx sentiment for years, but also is preventing the world from effectively fighting this thing if we all have to wait for the Pfizer and Moderna to vaccinate everyone. WAY more people will die.