[Cause]

So thanks to 9GAG I now know about the existence of a girl in the UK called Belle Delphine (19 years old) who sells pictures of herself dressed in cosplay and non-nude erotic photos, panties and a bra etc. She has like 3 million internet followers, some of whom subscribe for anything from one dollar and up a month to receive these photos. She apparently makes around 100k pounds a month doing this. Now my first knee-jerk reaction to this story was horror, not like apparently many on the internet because she is a slut or lowlife. I am just upset that she can make more than I do in a year just posting non-nudes of herself on the internet. However many people seem to think she is a horrible slut, unworthy to live, that her life is mocking them, that she is setting back feminism. I mean she gets a lot of hate. She seems to be a marketing genius; she sold jars of her bathwater for $30 which is obviously meant as a joke, everyone who bought it, seems to have bought it so they could post mocking videos on youtube or point out how crazy it is. I doubt she cares; she still sold jars of water for $30. Again, speaking for myself I'm not alarmed by her behavior I'm mostly just envious

Anyway, this got me thinking sex sells (female sex moreso?). It is worth money and lots of it. For centuries society and morality policed sex but that barrier is weakening. However, that barrier is falling unevenly. Emilia Clarke being topless in HBO earned her millions and no one bats an eyelid. Strippers can make a lot of money though it’s considered an undesirable career and to many strippers are scummy. Prostitution is lowest on the totem pole but there are tv shows these days about escorts and dominatrixes who are self-employed and making decent money in the sex industry and making it look glamorous. Without the component of sex trafficking and a pimp who beats you, maybe it’s not that bad if it’s your choice. I mean I cannot actually be sure. Modern antibiotics have made stds like gonorrhea and syphilis no big thing and legal abortions have reduced the risk of an unwanted pregnancy and of course the stigma of a single mother raising a bastard has also gone away for the most part.

Speaking of sex trafficking and pimps I believe more and more countries and US states? Are legalizing prostitution but keeping the owning and operating of a brother etc illegal as a way to not punish sex workers but try and destroy the seedier aspects of the industry.

Lastly, I believe japan for example is famous for fetishizing schoolgirls and it’s not uncommon for them to engage in prostitution for money or even just lavish gifts. Japan also has a kind of sex industry lite, where you might pay to chat or date a host or hostess though sec and even touching may be off the table. Last night I was watching a decade old Bill Maher comedy routine where he said there was a growing trend of middle class white gilrs to engage in prostitution at the mall in exchange for shopping trips. I had never heard of it before but I can believe it is true,

In any event I hope my thought process is somewhat clear when I ask the question: If a 19 year old girl can make 100k pounds a month selling her pictures online with minimal social stigma (though why should there be) and little risk should we not expect such a trend to rise. Belle Delphine is unique, there are ten youtube vloggers for everyone that is really making money of their content but I do not think that invalidates my point.

Lastly, if the trend does grow I would expect supply and demand to weaken their selling power but honestly, in a world of freely available internet porn I am at a loss to explain why people would pay money for a sexy non-nude of a girl dressed like a cat

[Aptorian]

People who demonize strippers, camgirls and prostitutes for erroding the progress of feminism are idiots.

In a truly free society, we are free to do what ever we want with our body and mind, so long as it doesn't hurt anybody (And assuming this isnt sex trafficking or people forced into it because of addiction)

Sex sells. It always will. Why would you critize an entrepreneur for being successful at their craft? If you don't want to buy the product, don't. Don't throw shade just because they make more money than you.

Now the other side of this is of course the cultural and biological aspect. There's a lot of preprogrammed and learned issues with women and men selling sex. Moral outrage, jealousy, stigmas, etc. but I hope in a modern, Western society, we can agree that's a personal problem, not societies.

People are free to feel outraged, doesn't mean it's a problem the rest of us have to care about.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 19 July 2019 - 09:45 AM

[Tiste Simeon]

The police in Britain generally see prostitutes as victims moreso than criminals, despite it being illegal. A lot of them are there because of drug debts and suchlike and there is a huge modern slavery/human trafficking element involved too so instead of just demonizing people who have little to no choice (in what appears to be a vast majority of circumstances) we try to help, signposting them to agencies and specialists who exist for that reason.

In my experience there's not a huge amount in Britain who are in that side of thebsex industry just cos they want to be. Obviously I'm not an expert and can only speak from the side of it I know a little bit about...

[Cause]

Yes but that I think is my point, the barriers to the sex industry are falling. The freedoms you speak of are more permissive than ever. I'm generally wondering if we will see a rise in young girls and women in general engaging in some kind of sex work either as a full time career or just as a bonus side income. I'm wondering if the past social stigma's was perhaps one of the only checks. Further I'm not arguing it needs to be kept in check.

I'm thinking that if I was an attractive women and could make even $100 a week by posting pictures of me in my underwear on the web why wouldn't I?

Instagram has created the influencer, snapchat has created the pay to see model, pornhub lets anyone post home made content and their is a financial incentive.

I remember thinking about the women who posed in playboy, or did nude scenes in movies for example as a kid in highschool and my thoughts tended to 'what must there dad think', 'it must be so embarrassing to know every friend of yours knows what you look like naked'. Now that I'm older I realize that these are not such big problems.

Not every stripper is only doing it to put food on the table, or put themselves through college or to feed drug addiction. For many its is probably the best paying job they can get and if that's true and they are happy why not. I used to think every stripper must be living a shameful secret hiding her profession from her family and friends but these days maybe sometimes but I don't think always that is the case.

This post has been edited by Cause: 19 July 2019 - 10:25 AM

[Maark Abbott]

I mean if you can also make money selling your bathwater, more power to you, except for when your bathwater is proven to be table salt and tapwater and you get sued for misspelling (kek).

Also don't forget that by going into the sex industry you can potentially become the Empress of most of Earwa. A job is a job at the end of the day; lawyer or stripper, you're no less a slave to capitalism, are you?

[Macros]

A stripper is a far more morally sound job than a lawyer.

[worry]

Decriminalize all sex work and regulate it for safety like any other industry. Bingo bango.

[Macros]

don't you mean bunga bunga?

[worry]

That's more of an Italian thing. In the US we call it "snu snu".

[Illuyankas]

The Scandanavian model sucks ass btw and shouldn't be implements cause it makes everything worse for the sex workers, can't argue with the facts

[Maark Abbott]

I can't reply to Macros via quote as work filter is blocking the thread, but ouch, I feel personally attacked by that.

[Cause]

Illuyankas, on 20 July 2019 - 02:08 PM, said:

The Scandanavian model sucks ass btw and shouldn't be implements cause it makes everything worse for the sex workers, can't argue with the facts

Really, that's interesting.

[Gorefest]

Cause, on 22 July 2019 - 08:17 AM, said:

Illuyankas, on 20 July 2019 - 02:08 PM, said:

The Scandanavian model sucks ass btw and shouldn't be implements cause it makes everything worse for the sex workers, can't argue with the facts

Really, that's interesting.

I would say the same for the Dutch system. There are good sides to it: legalisation/decriminalisation means that sex workers can register themselves as self employed workers, they pay taxes and have control over their own affairs. The problem arises in areas where you have criminal/seedy elements encroaching on their turf. So there is this whole underlayer of sex-trafficked workers from Eastern Europe or Asia that are very poorly regulated and monitored. And the police/authorities don't really enforce things enough because there seems to be this idea that the legalisation and registration should take care of regulating these things. Which it clearly doesn't. If anything, it has created this twilight culture of part legal, part illegal activities which are difficult to untangle. It is one of the rerasons why the current mayor of Amsterdam is considering closing down the Red Light district.

[Vengeance]

But if you close down the red light district where will English punters go to get herpes before they get married. Those things don't just spread themselves you know. Think of the English standing on the bridges who will they have to yell "fuck that cunt" at if the district is closed. Oh the humanity.

[LinearPhilosopher]

This is one of those business where in order for it to be done with any sense of dignity or decency (pardon the pun) is it needs to be brought into the limelight.

https://www.ted.com/...ant?language=en

A good video on the topic, talks about how there's a variety of models effect and their various failings. There's always going to be people who are willing to pay for sex, so why not give these people rights and protections as you would any other worker. It may not exactly be an ideal solution as most prostitutes don't do prostitution as their first choice. It's usually either financial desperation or sometimes it's full on kidnapping of kids. But bring it into the limelight if done right will help mitigate much of these problems.

also in regards to the OP, fuck that belle delphine girl. The bathwater was an amusing joke but when she made the promise to do porn for her patreon followers, she went and published naked photos of OTHER girls without their consent and then profited off that. that's not cool.

[Primateus]

I saw this video, it was very informative.

[Kanese S's]

You probably know sex workers and don't realize it.
It's ultimately just a job. It should be decriminalized. Most of the dangerous elements are from it being illegal.