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Ye Big Politics Thread A thread for all things political that may not warrent its own thread

#601 User is offline   Maark Abbott 

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Posted 09 October 2025 - 11:50 AM

View PostQuickTidal, on 09 October 2025 - 11:17 AM, said:

View PostWhisperzzzzzzz, on 09 October 2025 - 06:23 AM, said:

Also humans are biologically primed to be receptive to authority figures (and ChatGPT et al come across very authoritative and totally fuck with our lizard brains. I mean, have you tried the ChatGPT conversational voice mode? It is astounding how seamless and humanlike it is.)


Right, but that's my disconnect here as they REFUSED to listen to scientists and doctors and epidemiologists during the pandemic...according to them they were ALL on the take. But now Chat GPT is their king? I don't get it.


I think this ties back to the 'we don't need experts' rhetoric. I'm not sure who espoused it over the pond (here it was largely Michael Gove, from memory), but the lasting effect has been mistrust in people with expertise. I suppose it stoked the egos of people who are proud to know very little to be told their opinions on certain subjects were exactly as valid as those who've studied those same subjects as their life's work.

Why they then trust ChatGPT though, I have no theory at present.
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#602 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 09 October 2025 - 12:27 PM

View PostMaark Abbott, on 09 October 2025 - 11:50 AM, said:

View PostQuickTidal, on 09 October 2025 - 11:17 AM, said:

View PostWhisperzzzzzzz, on 09 October 2025 - 06:23 AM, said:

Also humans are biologically primed to be receptive to authority figures (and ChatGPT et al come across very authoritative and totally fuck with our lizard brains. I mean, have you tried the ChatGPT conversational voice mode? It is astounding how seamless and humanlike it is.)


Right, but that's my disconnect here as they REFUSED to listen to scientists and doctors and epidemiologists during the pandemic...according to them they were ALL on the take. But now Chat GPT is their king? I don't get it.


I think this ties back to the 'we don't need experts' rhetoric. I'm not sure who espoused it over the pond (here it was largely Michael Gove, from memory), but the lasting effect has been mistrust in people with expertise. I suppose it stoked the egos of people who are proud to know very little to be told their opinions on certain subjects were exactly as valid as those who've studied those same subjects as their life's work.

Why they then trust ChatGPT though, I have no theory at present.


It does seem to stem from a sort of "I'm in an IN GROUP that KNOWS THE TRUTH" and how intoxicating it is to feel like that...and the longer you feel like that, the more your brain will begin to defend that position, and anything that even factually combats that feeling will be seen by your brain as an attack.
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#603 User is offline   Tsundoku 

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Posted 09 October 2025 - 12:28 PM

I think people are more likely to listen to experts ... who agree with their preconceived notions.

I mean, it pretty much tallies with the whole "echo chamber" thing, doesn't it?

See, once upon a time western society just did what the govt and experts told them. Society was individualistic to a certain degree, but they still listened and acceded because it's how they were brought up. And you know - the common good etc. Belief in a benign - or at least not overtly malevolent - govt.

But then people started to get more individualistic - more important than the common good (60s hippies, USA in general looking at you here). And the "greed is good" era, Reaganomics, the breakdown of the very tenuous social contract in the 80s or so when people realised the govt and upper classes really didn't give a fuck about them, then throw the internet in, when people could find any number of other people who agreed with whatever they thought - no matter how whackadoodle - and here we are.

As far as trusting ChatGPT - well, it's supposed to trawl all of human knowledge isn't it? And be neutral. Ish.
So in theory I should get a more accurate and impartial answer from ChatGPT than some party shill, or biased scientist ...
Anyhoo, that's some of what's going through my head as to why.

The above of course is very, very brief and generalised, but it's a nice summary of my opinion.

@QT
Yes, that idea of "groupthink" and contrary opinion or evidence being seen as an "attack" - I've seen that somewhere, maybe in a doco or written online, but it rings a bell.

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 09 October 2025 - 12:33 PM

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#604 User is offline   Maark Abbott 

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Posted 09 October 2025 - 04:28 PM

View PostQuickTidal, on 09 October 2025 - 12:27 PM, said:

View PostMaark Abbott, on 09 October 2025 - 11:50 AM, said:

View PostQuickTidal, on 09 October 2025 - 11:17 AM, said:

View PostWhisperzzzzzzz, on 09 October 2025 - 06:23 AM, said:

Also humans are biologically primed to be receptive to authority figures (and ChatGPT et al come across very authoritative and totally fuck with our lizard brains. I mean, have you tried the ChatGPT conversational voice mode? It is astounding how seamless and humanlike it is.)


Right, but that's my disconnect here as they REFUSED to listen to scientists and doctors and epidemiologists during the pandemic...according to them they were ALL on the take. But now Chat GPT is their king? I don't get it.


I think this ties back to the 'we don't need experts' rhetoric. I'm not sure who espoused it over the pond (here it was largely Michael Gove, from memory), but the lasting effect has been mistrust in people with expertise. I suppose it stoked the egos of people who are proud to know very little to be told their opinions on certain subjects were exactly as valid as those who've studied those same subjects as their life's work.

Why they then trust ChatGPT though, I have no theory at present.


It does seem to stem from a sort of "I'm in an IN GROUP that KNOWS THE TRUTH" and how intoxicating it is to feel like that...and the longer you feel like that, the more your brain will begin to defend that position, and anything that even factually combats that feeling will be seen by your brain as an attack.


One time I saw my doctor about something. And they asked me what I reckoned to a potential treatment option. She was very surprised when I said "you're the doctor, we'll try your idea first" because she'd gotten that used to people just not paying attention to her expertise any more. Feels like a microcosm of how stuff is lately.
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#605 User is offline   TheRetiredBridgeburner 

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Posted 10 October 2025 - 07:17 AM

View PostMaark Abbott, on 09 October 2025 - 04:28 PM, said:

One time I saw my doctor about something. And they asked me what I reckoned to a potential treatment option. She was very surprised when I said "you're the doctor, we'll try your idea first" because she'd gotten that used to people just not paying attention to her expertise any more. Feels like a microcosm of how stuff is lately.


This is something I've noticed as well - the expectation they won't be trusted/argued with.

I can only back Maark's points, because my dad is an exhaustingly textbook example of this. Doesn't want to hear about an "expert" unless they agree with whatever previously established prejudice he's holding - but anyone who agrees with him, ah well, we don't need to question their expertise at all.

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 10 October 2025 - 07:17 AM

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#606 User is offline   Maark Abbott 

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Posted 10 October 2025 - 07:36 AM

View PostTheRetiredBridgeburner, on 10 October 2025 - 07:17 AM, said:

View PostMaark Abbott, on 09 October 2025 - 04:28 PM, said:

One time I saw my doctor about something. And they asked me what I reckoned to a potential treatment option. She was very surprised when I said "you're the doctor, we'll try your idea first" because she'd gotten that used to people just not paying attention to her expertise any more. Feels like a microcosm of how stuff is lately.


This is something I've noticed as well - the expectation they won't be trusted/argued with.

I can only back Maark's points, because my dad is an exhaustingly textbook example of this. Doesn't want to hear about an "expert" unless they agree with whatever previously established prejudice he's holding - but anyone who agrees with him, ah well, we don't need to question their expertise at all.


I see it in my day to day as well (and I expect you will have at some point given we're broadly the same sector) - trying to explain to a claimant why something has to be done a certain way, and you sometimes get a pushback because they went on google and the actuality doesn't match expectation, or try and detail to them why evidence says something and you get argued with that 'I know x y or z, the reporting expert doesn't know me, they don't know what they're talking about' and it's just exhausting. It's just knackering to deal with on a constant basis.
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#607 User is offline   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

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Posted 10 October 2025 - 03:34 PM

View PostAzath Vitr (D, on 08 October 2025 - 06:07 PM, said:

In my anecdotal experience ChatGPT doesn't frequently hallucinate facts, though it is still extremely stupid and very lazy. (For example, I recently considered investing in a US farmland REIT, so I wanted to know how much of an impact Trump's trade war might have on it, particularly his trade war with China. The numbers seemed correct, but when ChatGPT tried to do an actual calculation of the impact on AFFO, it stupidly treated AFFO from exports to China---which made up a minority of total exports for this REIT---as if it were AFFO for all of the REIT's exports. However, it was able to correct the error and redo the calculation after I pointed this out. So when it comes to original analysis, I wouldn't recommend using it unless you already have a decent enough grasp of the subject matter to recognize errors and double-check its work before acting on its suggestions.)


I was actually hoping Trump's trade war had simmered down for the foreseeable future but lo and behold after some seemingly minor provocations from China Trump's going full bonkers into it again today...

Dow, S&P 500, Nasdaq slide as Trump threatens 'massive increase' on China tariffs - Yahoo Finance

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 10 October 2025 - 03:34 PM

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#608 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 17 January 2026 - 09:40 AM

So Jennick is telling us the Tories broke Britain (not wrong) and that Reform are the only way to save the country.
Reform, who are made up of a bunch of wankers and Tory detectors. You know, the people who broke Britain.



Fuck off
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#609 User is offline   Maark Abbott 

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Posted 17 January 2026 - 02:25 PM

It's maddening how people are thick enough to pay heed to Reform in the slightest. Oh they'll fix it, they'll fix it, they'll do some boats

get em teld
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#610 User is online   Tiste Simeon 

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Posted 13 February 2026 - 05:33 PM

They've ruled that proscribing Palestine Action as terrorists was unlawful, which, yeah, it was the dumbest thing ever, hopefully all the OAPs and the like who got arrested for holding signs up will now be compensated, but I won't hold my breath...

BBC News - Palestine Action ban ruled unlawful but group remains proscribed for now
https://www.bbc.co.u...es/c3wleezq73no
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#611 User is offline   the broken 

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Posted 13 February 2026 - 09:02 PM

View PostTiste Simeon, on 13 February 2026 - 05:33 PM, said:

They've ruled that proscribing Palestine Action as terrorists was unlawful, which, yeah, it was the dumbest thing ever, hopefully all the OAPs and the like who got arrested for holding signs up will now be compensated, but I won't hold my breath...

BBC News - Palestine Action ban ruled unlawful but group remains proscribed for now
https://www.bbc.co.u...es/c3wleezq73no


The judgement is interesting. They are involved in a lot of criminal damage, but only three incidents that hit the threshold for acts of terrorism, which isn't enough for proscription.
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#612 User is offline   Tsundoku 

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Posted 03 March 2026 - 10:53 AM

Summing up the New Normal:

Chilling truth about our ‘new normal’ as Donald Trump pulls off the unthinkable
As the entire world is left to watch in horror as war continues to wage in the Middle East, there is one very scary truth about Trump’s latest move.

https://www.news.com...56c2dea41497d93

Jamie Seidel

ANALYSIS

What does a stolen uranium convoy in Nigeria have to do with the assassination of Iran’s Ayatollah Ali Khamenei?

Welcome to the new ‘Mad Max’ world order.

They’re violent examples of an international system in collapse.

“A United States-led international order that prioritised rules and rule following is coming apart in real time,” warn global political analysts Steven Radil and Raphael Parens.

“Scrambles to claim control over energy, minerals, shipping routes, and a willingness to ignore the prohibitions of the old order is the new norm.”

The notion that a military junta could seize uranium from a French-run mine in Nigeria and sell it on the black market seems inconceivable.

The concept of seizing or killing national leaders and attacking nations without a clear and present danger was supposed to have been put to rest with Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy and Imperial Japan.

But it’s happening again. And the world is barely raising a whisper.

That’s sending a loud message to the world’s miscreants.

“The attacks – and the assassination of Supreme Leader Khamenei – create precedents for other countries seeking to resort to force without consideration for the rule of law,” warns Chatham House international law analyst Professor Marc Weller.

The world stood by and watched as Russia invaded Georgia in 2008.

It did so again when it seized Crimea in 2014. And attacked Ukraine in 2022.

China has snatched sandbanks and coral reefs, turning them into fortresses.

It insists, against international judgment, that it owns Taiwan and parts of the Philippines, India and Japan.

“With its actions, following its intervention in Venezuela and its threats against Greenland, the US has created multiple potential precedents which others may follow in different circumstances,” Professor Weller adds.

“It will not be easily possible to oppose further Russian aggression or potential Chinese expansionism if there are no clear principles left to rely on”.

Epic Fury Road

“Recognising that the world remains driven by power, it is clear that a strict—and I would even say reactionary—adherence to the so-called “rules-based international order” may lead to negative outcomes,” US President Donald Trump’s Trade Representative, Ambassador Jamieson Greer, told a University of Virginia School of Law presentation late last month.

“Do we need to let wars, conflict, or international crime drag on simply because the UN or another international body cannot come to full consensus?

The answer is obviously no.

“But excessively rigid adherence to the ‘rules-based order’ can sometimes imply exactly that: inaction in the face of serious economic, security, or humanitarian emergencies.”

But which laws are optional? Who gets to decide?

Rules require cooperation.

And laws need commitment.

What good is a football game without them? What if a red stoplight were suddenly just a suggestion? What if commerce could be conducted at knifepoint?

“Realism, as its name implies, is the cold, hard truth of reality - it is raw power,” Alexandra Desailly argues for the Australian Institute of International Affairs (AIIA).

“Liberalism and cooperation are, by contrast, constructions. They can exist only if individuals and global powers recognise their value.”

But that value is being dismissed.

By Moscow. By Beijing. By Washington, D.C.

“The United States has taken a further, major step in unhinging the global order,” Professor Weller warns of the weekend assault on Iran .

“The core principle of that order is that no state can go to war in pursuit of its own national policy. Where use of force is claimed as necessary in the global interest, this can only be done through a mandate from the UN Security Council.”

But the global response, including from Canberra, has been muted.

“This reluctance to highlight unlawful conduct may encourage a broader sense that the use of force as a means of national policy is becoming acceptable again – at least to the most powerful countries.”

Last days of peace

“It may seem inappropriate to insist on compliance with the law even where laudable objectives – such as nuclear non-proliferation and freedom from repression – are being claimed as the attackers’ objectives,” Professor Weller concedes.

“(But) the US, and the states that have failed to identify its conduct as a violation of international law, may come to regret the loss of legal and moral authority this will bring.”

More than 80 years of consistent, if unsteady, global cooperation has produced a historically unprecedented era of prosperity.

A world operating under shared economic, legal and security guidelines has produced a surge in technology, prosperity and peace.

It’s been a far from perfect ride.

But the alternative is now looming large.

“As great power alliances have become unpredictable, middle powers and even small states have become more willing to gamble on rule-breaking, because penalties feel avoidable,” warn Radil and Parens.

Thus, Nigeria’s junta gambled that it could get away with seizing uranium yellowcake. And that there was a global black market willing and able to buy it.

Global inaction has made this true.

“The convoy is a case study in how the new international system now works,” Radil and Parens add.

“Resource extraction becomes a central arena of geopolitics. Logistics becomes national power. And the boundary between regular commerce and criminality becomes deliberately blurred.

“In this environment, the most revealing geopolitical stories are not summit speeches or treaty signings but the high-risk, high-reward wagers that move forward anyway.”

Such as bombing Iran. Invading Ukraine. Blockading Taiwan.

International law, treaties, standards and agreements make the world go around.

And 80 years of relative peace prove this.

“Unless we want to go back to a world in which, say, we have no Exclusive Economic Zone … and our offshore resources are up for grabs by whatever country or company has the military or financial muscle, then we might want to think twice before declaring the Law of the Sea to be a fiction,” warns former Australian diplomat Sandy Hollway in the Lowy Institute’s Interpreter publication.

Beyond Thunderdome

“The deeper lesson of the ‘Mad Max’ convoy is not simply that West Africa is dangerous,” conclude Radil and Parens.

“It is that the US seems ready to look away while the world moves toward a system that rewards actors who can move strategic materials through dangerous spaces, while external powers hesitate, argue, or ignore such issues altogether.”

It’s a dog-eat-dog world Australia must learn to live in.

And it is more vulnerable to shocks that upset global shipping, trade and transport than most.

“Australia’s sovereignty and wellbeing are at stake,” warns Desailly.

“Protecting them will require belief in the cooperative spirit, which, now fragile, must be carefully nurtured.”

In the absence of a global order, old cooperative systems may serve as a fallback. The Commonwealth. The Indo-Pacific “backyard”.

These “need each other more than at any other point in the last 80 years,” Desailly states.

“If the superpowers return to realist imperialism, smaller and medium-sized states must form stronger bonds to protect their sovereignty and interests.”

Ultimately, order is a matter of mindset, argues Hollway. “We want a mindset in which our first thoughts when the world faces a new issue … is that maybe the best way of achieving our ends is constructive collaboration rather than disconnection, name-calling or reaching for the guns.”

The Trump Administration believes differently.

“International law cannot be a suicide pact,” argues Ambassador Greer. “International law cannot stand in the way of peace and prosperity. International law cannot undermine national sovereignty.”

It’s a quandary as old as civilisation itself.

Desailly points out that it was addressed centuries ago by the Greek philosopher Plato. In his treatise ‘The Republic’, the character Thrasymachus declares: “Might is right, justice the interest of the stronger: now praise me!”

Britain’s wartime leader Winston Churchill understood the implications.

“Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe,” he said shortly after World War II.

“No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…”
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#613 User is offline   the broken 

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Posted 03 March 2026 - 01:29 PM

Thing about that logic is it assumes that the US is the only actor and everyone else does nothing but react to what the US does. Even though it already acknowledges Russia and China were perfectly willing to do land grabs long before the US set precedents this year.
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#614 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 03 March 2026 - 02:08 PM

View Postthe broken, on 03 March 2026 - 01:29 PM, said:

China were perfectly willing to do land grabs long before the US set precedents this year.


Sorry, what land grabs did China do? Territorial disputes that never resulted in actual land grabs, sure, but not deliberate "I'm taking this" stuff that Russia was doing. Got examples?
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#615 User is offline   Tsundoku 

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Posted 03 March 2026 - 08:14 PM

China set up a base inside Bhutan. Possibly even a town.
South China Sea - it may be maritime, but it's still territory. The 9 dash line that was shot down by the World Court (?) over UNCLOS.
Tibet.
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#616 User is offline   the broken 

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Posted 04 March 2026 - 02:30 PM

South China Sea, Indian Border, invaded Tibet and attempted to invade Vietnam.
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#617 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 04 March 2026 - 02:45 PM

I feel like Border disputes are a different ballgame to what we were talking about, but I'll concede the point.
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#618 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 04 March 2026 - 04:39 PM

Glad to see you guys settle this Boarder dispute amicably.
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