Malazan Empire: Ye Big Politics Thread - Malazan Empire

Jump to content

  • 4 Pages +
  • « First
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Ye Big Politics Thread A thread for all things political that may not warrent its own thread

#61 User is offline   Tsundoku 

  • Make the Empire Great Again
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 3,464
  • Joined: 06-January 03
  • Location:Maison de merde

Posted 21 June 2020 - 05:17 AM

A reasonable short summation of the rise of disinformation and opinion over fact, and how it applies in a state political sense.

https://www.news.com...84dd5e10fe40e5b
"Fortune favors the bold, though statistics favor the cautious." - Indomitable Courteous (Icy) Fist, The Palace Job - Patrick Weekes

"Well well well ... if it ain't The Invisible C**t." - Billy Butcher, The Boys

"I have strong views about not tempting providence and, as a wise man once said, the difference between luck and a wheelbarrow is, luck doesn’t work if you push it." - Colonel Orhan, Sixteen Ways to Defend a Walled City - KJ Parker
0

#62 User is offline   Macros 

  • D'ivers Fuckwits
  • Group: High House Mafia
  • Posts: 7,499
  • Joined: 28-January 08
  • Location:Ulster, disputed zone, British Empire.

Posted 21 July 2020 - 06:59 PM

And the Tories yet again stay true to themselves, being utter cunts.

Bad enough they sneak through bills allowing shite food from all over to be imported without regulation (hammering another nail in the coffin of the farming industry here) they now have finally publicly voted that the NHS is basically for sale to America.


Wankers
0

#63 User is offline   Maark Abbott 

  • [MAXIMUM DISGRUNTLEMENT]
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 3,313
  • Joined: 11-November 14
  • Location:Lether, apparently...
  • Interests:Redacted

Posted 23 July 2020 - 07:27 AM

View PostMacros, on 21 July 2020 - 06:59 PM, said:

And the Tories yet again stay true to themselves, being utter cunts.

Bad enough they sneak through bills allowing shite food from all over to be imported without regulation (hammering another nail in the coffin of the farming industry here) they now have finally publicly voted that the NHS is basically for sale to America.


Wankers



And people wonder why my viewpoints for a while has been 'Tories bad'.

We need them out and by force if need be. Fetch the guillotine, comrade.
Facebook - www.facebook[dotcom]/MaarkAbbottWriting / Twitter - @MAbbottWriting / I'm on Goodreads somewhere as well

XBL - Shoryukos / Steam - Angryμaark / PSN - AngryMaark

Debut novel 'Incarnate' now available on Kindle
0

#64 User is offline   Tsundoku 

  • Make the Empire Great Again
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 3,464
  • Joined: 06-January 03
  • Location:Maison de merde

Posted 23 July 2020 - 09:55 AM

Weren't they all "Save the NHS" while Boris was on the respirator?
"Fortune favors the bold, though statistics favor the cautious." - Indomitable Courteous (Icy) Fist, The Palace Job - Patrick Weekes

"Well well well ... if it ain't The Invisible C**t." - Billy Butcher, The Boys

"I have strong views about not tempting providence and, as a wise man once said, the difference between luck and a wheelbarrow is, luck doesn’t work if you push it." - Colonel Orhan, Sixteen Ways to Defend a Walled City - KJ Parker
0

#65 User is offline   Tiste Simeon 

  • Faith, Heavy Metal & Bacon
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 10,413
  • Joined: 08-October 04
  • Location:T'North

Posted 23 July 2020 - 11:28 AM

Eh. Pure tokenism.
A Haunting Poem
I Scream
You Scream
We all Scream
For I Scream.
0

#66 User is offline   Maark Abbott 

  • [MAXIMUM DISGRUNTLEMENT]
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 3,313
  • Joined: 11-November 14
  • Location:Lether, apparently...
  • Interests:Redacted

Posted 23 July 2020 - 11:59 AM

View PostTsundoku, on 23 July 2020 - 09:55 AM, said:

Weren't they all "Save the NHS" while Boris was on the respirator?



View PostTiste Simeon, on 23 July 2020 - 11:28 AM, said:

Eh. Pure tokenism.


Basically. Conservatives are vehemently opposed to the idea of an NHS, because they cannot make personal profit from it. They want us on a US style one where you're either rich enough to pay for treatment at extortionate rates, or die.

Their party voting record at the time of the NHS being incepted in regard to the said inception is pretty damning.



Facebook - www.facebook[dotcom]/MaarkAbbottWriting / Twitter - @MAbbottWriting / I'm on Goodreads somewhere as well

XBL - Shoryukos / Steam - Angryμaark / PSN - AngryMaark

Debut novel 'Incarnate' now available on Kindle
0

#67 User is offline   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

  • Mortal Sword
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 1,010
  • Joined: 07-February 16

Posted 24 July 2020 - 02:37 AM

'Opponents of Brexit and Donald Trump not only found those victories intolerable, but many refused to believe them to be legitimate, instead supposing that lies had swayed a docile population. This idea of a gullible, pliable populace is, of course, nothing new. Voltaire said, "those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities". But no, says [cognitive scientist] Mercier, Voltaire had it backwards: "It is wanting to commit atrocities that makes you believe absurdities".

[...] It might sound naive to say that people aren't that gullible, given what circulates on the internet: 9/11 was an inside job, Sandy Hook was a hoax, Barack Obama is a Muslim. But how many people truly believe these things? In Knowledge Resistance, the sociologist Mikael Klintman argues that it is the act of publicly stating a belief – as opposed to actually holding it – that serves the crucial evolutionarily grounded function of social signalling. If someone says Obama is a Muslim, their primary reason may be to indicate that they are a member of the group of people who co-ordinate around that statement. When a social belief and a true belief are in conflict, Klintman says, people will opt for the belief that best signals their social identity – even if it means lying to themselves. You could, for example, signal your deep distrust of big government and undying loyalty to the Second Amendment of the US Constitution by stating that the December 2012 massacre at Sandy Hook school was a hoax (while, on some level, assuming that it really did happen). Such a "belief" – being largely performative – rarely translates into action. It remains what Mercier calls a reflective belief, with no consequences on one's behaviour, as opposed to an intuitive belief, which guides decisions and actions. Sometimes a false belief can cross over, from a mere signal to a basis for real-world decision and action, and that's when we see the dangerous collateral effects of belief- signalling. While some hoaxers stopped at simply voicing their "theory" about Sandy Hook, in Florida, in June 2017, Lucy Richards was convicted of threatening the father of the six-year-old Noah Pozner, one of the twenty-seven victims (including the shooter's own mother) of the massacre. Richards said that the boy never existed and that his parents were actors who deserved death for perpetrating a lie.

[...] But in competition with the marketplace of ideas is a “market for justifications”, says Hugo Mercier. Again, the order of sequence is incorrect, he suggests: often, we are not seeking truths to help us figure out what we should believe, but rather seeking statements to justify existing beliefs.'

https://www.the-tls....judices-review/

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 24 July 2020 - 02:38 AM

1

#68 User is offline   HoosierDaddy 

  • Believer
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 7,631
  • Joined: 30-June 08
  • Location:Indianapolis
  • Interests:Football

Posted 24 July 2020 - 06:13 AM

View PostAzath Vitr (D, on 24 July 2020 - 02:37 AM, said:

'Opponents of Brexit and Donald Trump not only found those victories intolerable, but many refused to believe them to be legitimate, instead supposing that lies had swayed a docile population. This idea of a gullible, pliable populace is, of course, nothing new. Voltaire said, "those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities". But no, says [cognitive scientist] Mercier, Voltaire had it backwards: "It is wanting to commit atrocities that makes you believe absurdities".

[...] It might sound naive to say that people aren't that gullible, given what circulates on the internet: 9/11 was an inside job, Sandy Hook was a hoax, Barack Obama is a Muslim. But how many people truly believe these things? In Knowledge Resistance, the sociologist Mikael Klintman argues that it is the act of publicly stating a belief – as opposed to actually holding it – that serves the crucial evolutionarily grounded function of social signalling. If someone says Obama is a Muslim, their primary reason may be to indicate that they are a member of the group of people who co-ordinate around that statement. When a social belief and a true belief are in conflict, Klintman says, people will opt for the belief that best signals their social identity – even if it means lying to themselves. You could, for example, signal your deep distrust of big government and undying loyalty to the Second Amendment of the US Constitution by stating that the December 2012 massacre at Sandy Hook school was a hoax (while, on some level, assuming that it really did happen). Such a "belief" – being largely performative – rarely translates into action. It remains what Mercier calls a reflective belief, with no consequences on one's behaviour, as opposed to an intuitive belief, which guides decisions and actions. Sometimes a false belief can cross over, from a mere signal to a basis for real-world decision and action, and that's when we see the dangerous collateral effects of belief- signalling. While some hoaxers stopped at simply voicing their "theory" about Sandy Hook, in Florida, in June 2017, Lucy Richards was convicted of threatening the father of the six-year-old Noah Pozner, one of the twenty-seven victims (including the shooter's own mother) of the massacre. Richards said that the boy never existed and that his parents were actors who deserved death for perpetrating a lie.

[...] But in competition with the marketplace of ideas is a “market for justifications”, says Hugo Mercier. Again, the order of sequence is incorrect, he suggests: often, we are not seeking truths to help us figure out what we should believe, but rather seeking statements to justify existing beliefs.'

https://www.the-tls....judices-review/


"...he suggests: often, we are not seeking truths to help us figure out what we should believe, but rather seeking statements to justify existing beliefs.'"


Hasn't this been well known for a while? Selective bias, reinforcement bias, etc. Surely this isn't being trotted out as something new?
Trouble arrives when the opponents to such a system institute its extreme opposite, where individualism becomes godlike and sacrosanct, and no greater service to any other ideal (including community) is possible. In such a system rapacious greed thrives behind the guise of freedom, and the worst aspects of human nature come to the fore....
0

#69 User is offline   Mentalist 

  • Martyr of High House Mafia
  • Group: High House Mafia
  • Posts: 8,319
  • Joined: 06-June 07
  • Location:'sauga/GTA, City of the Lion
  • Interests:Soccer, Chess, swimming, books, misc
  • Junior Mafia Mod

Posted 24 July 2020 - 02:17 PM

View PostHoosierDaddy, on 24 July 2020 - 06:13 AM, said:

View PostAzath Vitr (D, on 24 July 2020 - 02:37 AM, said:

'Opponents of Brexit and Donald Trump not only found those victories intolerable, but many refused to believe them to be legitimate, instead supposing that lies had swayed a docile population. This idea of a gullible, pliable populace is, of course, nothing new. Voltaire said, "those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities". But no, says [cognitive scientist] Mercier, Voltaire had it backwards: "It is wanting to commit atrocities that makes you believe absurdities".

[...] It might sound naive to say that people aren't that gullible, given what circulates on the internet: 9/11 was an inside job, Sandy Hook was a hoax, Barack Obama is a Muslim. But how many people truly believe these things? In Knowledge Resistance, the sociologist Mikael Klintman argues that it is the act of publicly stating a belief – as opposed to actually holding it – that serves the crucial evolutionarily grounded function of social signalling. If someone says Obama is a Muslim, their primary reason may be to indicate that they are a member of the group of people who co-ordinate around that statement. When a social belief and a true belief are in conflict, Klintman says, people will opt for the belief that best signals their social identity – even if it means lying to themselves. You could, for example, signal your deep distrust of big government and undying loyalty to the Second Amendment of the US Constitution by stating that the December 2012 massacre at Sandy Hook school was a hoax (while, on some level, assuming that it really did happen). Such a "belief" – being largely performative – rarely translates into action. It remains what Mercier calls a reflective belief, with no consequences on one's behaviour, as opposed to an intuitive belief, which guides decisions and actions. Sometimes a false belief can cross over, from a mere signal to a basis for real-world decision and action, and that's when we see the dangerous collateral effects of belief- signalling. While some hoaxers stopped at simply voicing their "theory" about Sandy Hook, in Florida, in June 2017, Lucy Richards was convicted of threatening the father of the six-year-old Noah Pozner, one of the twenty-seven victims (including the shooter's own mother) of the massacre. Richards said that the boy never existed and that his parents were actors who deserved death for perpetrating a lie.

[...] But in competition with the marketplace of ideas is a “market for justifications”, says Hugo Mercier. Again, the order of sequence is incorrect, he suggests: often, we are not seeking truths to help us figure out what we should believe, but rather seeking statements to justify existing beliefs.'

https://www.the-tls....judices-review/


"...he suggests: often, we are not seeking truths to help us figure out what we should believe, but rather seeking statements to justify existing beliefs.'"


Hasn't this been well known for a while? Selective bias, reinforcement bias, etc. Surely this isn't being trotted out as something new?

I'm getting the impression that a lot of basic paradigms are going to be reviewed and revised in the coming years. It feels like social media has become a major factor in both disseminating and molding social beliefs. It kind of makes sense: if before the 2000s you were (largely) limited to your immediate surrounding circle and had to absorb most ideas through face-to-face communication, now -10-15 years later anyone can make a post and have it validated (via likes) by random all over the country/globe. And due to the ability to see who likes what you write, it facilitates engaging in conversation and reinforcement of ideas. And inevitably, the more divisive ideas resonate the strongest, leading to a polarization within society.

It's interesting to see, and although the underlying principles seem to be largely the same, the sheer new scope would probably require a new model.
The problem with the gene pool is that there's no lifeguard
THE CONTESTtm WINNER--чемпіон самоконтролю

View PostJump Around, on 23 October 2011 - 11:04 AM, said:

And I want to state that Ment has out-weaseled me by far in this game.
0

#70 User is offline   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

  • Mortal Sword
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 1,010
  • Joined: 07-February 16

Posted 24 July 2020 - 04:39 PM

View PostHoosierDaddy, on 24 July 2020 - 06:13 AM, said:

View PostAzath Vitr (D, on 24 July 2020 - 02:37 AM, said:

'Opponents of Brexit and Donald Trump not only found those victories intolerable, but many refused to believe them to be legitimate, instead supposing that lies had swayed a docile population. This idea of a gullible, pliable populace is, of course, nothing new. Voltaire said, "those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities". But no, says [cognitive scientist] Mercier, Voltaire had it backwards: "It is wanting to commit atrocities that makes you believe absurdities".

[...] It might sound naive to say that people aren't that gullible, given what circulates on the internet: 9/11 was an inside job, Sandy Hook was a hoax, Barack Obama is a Muslim. But how many people truly believe these things? In Knowledge Resistance, the sociologist Mikael Klintman argues that it is the act of publicly stating a belief – as opposed to actually holding it – that serves the crucial evolutionarily grounded function of social signalling. If someone says Obama is a Muslim, their primary reason may be to indicate that they are a member of the group of people who co-ordinate around that statement. When a social belief and a true belief are in conflict, Klintman says, people will opt for the belief that best signals their social identity – even if it means lying to themselves. You could, for example, signal your deep distrust of big government and undying loyalty to the Second Amendment of the US Constitution by stating that the December 2012 massacre at Sandy Hook school was a hoax (while, on some level, assuming that it really did happen). Such a "belief" – being largely performative – rarely translates into action. It remains what Mercier calls a reflective belief, with no consequences on one's behaviour, as opposed to an intuitive belief, which guides decisions and actions. Sometimes a false belief can cross over, from a mere signal to a basis for real-world decision and action, and that's when we see the dangerous collateral effects of belief- signalling. While some hoaxers stopped at simply voicing their "theory" about Sandy Hook, in Florida, in June 2017, Lucy Richards was convicted of threatening the father of the six-year-old Noah Pozner, one of the twenty-seven victims (including the shooter's own mother) of the massacre. Richards said that the boy never existed and that his parents were actors who deserved death for perpetrating a lie.

[...] But in competition with the marketplace of ideas is a "market for justifications", says Hugo Mercier. Again, the order of sequence is incorrect, he suggests: often, we are not seeking truths to help us figure out what we should believe, but rather seeking statements to justify existing beliefs.'

https://www.the-tls....judices-review/


"...he suggests: often, we are not seeking truths to help us figure out what we should believe, but rather seeking statements to justify existing beliefs.'"

Hasn't this been well known for a while? Selective bias, reinforcement bias, etc. Surely this isn't being trotted out as something new?


It's a question of extent, evidence, and context.

The research on this in the last decade has been contentious.

You can read the full article, or fuller reviews, for more details (open in new incognito window if there's a paywall issue).

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 24 July 2020 - 05:08 PM

0

#71 User is offline   Malankazooie 

  • God
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 4,552
  • Joined: 21-June 16

Posted 25 August 2020 - 06:24 PM

How have we missed this headline - Kim Jong Un in coma.

It's all just more fuckery by the hermit kingdom, yeah? If it is true, does that mean his sister is in charge? And she will take over permanently if he doesn't come out of it?

BTW, I find the sister attractive. Does that make me a horrible person? I became aware of her during the last Winter Olympics. She catches the eye, imo.
0

#72 User is offline   Tsundoku 

  • Make the Empire Great Again
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 3,464
  • Joined: 06-January 03
  • Location:Maison de merde

Posted 17 October 2020 - 08:51 AM

Holy fush and chups, Bitman!

At the moment it looks like Unnzudd may get a Labour majority in their own right. At one stage an hour or so ago it looked like they were tracking for fufty point sux percint of the vote and suxty-sux seats!
At the moment that has come back slightly to 49.3 percint and suxty-four seats. With a one hundred and twinty seat parliament all they need is suxty-one.

Better break out the chully buns!

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 17 October 2020 - 08:58 AM

"Fortune favors the bold, though statistics favor the cautious." - Indomitable Courteous (Icy) Fist, The Palace Job - Patrick Weekes

"Well well well ... if it ain't The Invisible C**t." - Billy Butcher, The Boys

"I have strong views about not tempting providence and, as a wise man once said, the difference between luck and a wheelbarrow is, luck doesn’t work if you push it." - Colonel Orhan, Sixteen Ways to Defend a Walled City - KJ Parker
0

#73 User is offline   Aptorian 

  • How you doin?
  • Group: The Wheelchairs of War
  • Posts: 23,275
  • Joined: 22-May 06

Posted 17 October 2020 - 09:02 AM

What language is that?
0

#74 User is offline   Tsundoku 

  • Make the Empire Great Again
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 3,464
  • Joined: 06-January 03
  • Location:Maison de merde

Posted 17 October 2020 - 09:11 AM

Kiwi, bro.
"Fortune favors the bold, though statistics favor the cautious." - Indomitable Courteous (Icy) Fist, The Palace Job - Patrick Weekes

"Well well well ... if it ain't The Invisible C**t." - Billy Butcher, The Boys

"I have strong views about not tempting providence and, as a wise man once said, the difference between luck and a wheelbarrow is, luck doesn’t work if you push it." - Colonel Orhan, Sixteen Ways to Defend a Walled City - KJ Parker
0

#75 User is offline   Tiste Simeon 

  • Faith, Heavy Metal & Bacon
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 10,413
  • Joined: 08-October 04
  • Location:T'North

Posted 17 October 2020 - 12:37 PM

And it's finally some good news. Wish we had a competent and vibrant leadership over here.
A Haunting Poem
I Scream
You Scream
We all Scream
For I Scream.
0

Share this topic:


  • 4 Pages +
  • « First
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users