[Malankazooie]

I was waiting for you guys to point out the ships with scorpions and bringing down Rhaegal. That was way more an egregious detachment from real world logic then the battle last week. At least the battle was created to give us eyegasms. This ambush and capture of Missandei on the sea by Euron was poorly constructed and executed solely to propel Dany into Mad Targaryen mode. The dragons could have flown circles around those ships and blasted them with dragon fire. This even happened in season 6 when the dragons roasted the ships on Slaver's Bay.

[Abyss]

I suppose we might say even if Dany saw the fleet she had no reason to think they had shiny new massive anti-dragon plot devices weapons ready to oh who am i kidding that was ridiculous.

Predictions:

Arya will take her shot at Cersei, it will fail, the Hound will end up fighting the Mountain to save her.

Jaime will take out Cersei, probably die in the process.

Jon fights Euron, finally wins a fight. Finally.

Dany and Jon fly off into the sunset on her last dragon because fuck Westeros, the Iron Throne, and all of these assholes anyways. Or not.

[Malankazooie]

At this point, with just two episodes left, just give us more eyegasms. And some how work this song into the mix as the battles commence.

Then I'll wait 10 years for GRRM to finally finish the books to see how it was all really meant to end.

[Nevyn]

Gorefest, on 06 May 2019 - 01:06 PM, said:

Jon sending Ghost away. The final nail to the book coffin. Gosh, this series has slipped its moorings. Just need to keep reminding myself to enjoy it in its own right. And I do. I do. But wow do they make it taxing.

Ghost has been a weak afterthought for rather a long time now. Shown just enough for the show to be able to say "see we didn't forget him"

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Nevyn, on 06 May 2019 - 05:45 PM, said:

Gorefest, on 06 May 2019 - 01:06 PM, said:

Jon sending Ghost away. The final nail to the book coffin. Gosh, this series has slipped its moorings. Just need to keep reminding myself to enjoy it in its own right. And I do. I do. But wow do they make it taxing.

Ghost has been a weak afterthought for rather a long time now. Shown just enough for the show to be able to say "see we didn't forget him"

'we are all Ghost: staring at our heroes in confusion, a little worse for wear, wondering what the hell everyone is thinking.'

[worry]

The big flaws in this episode for me were Sansa attributing her growth to her abusers, Tyrion being cruel to Brienne for no good reason, and Missandei being the only captive and getting fridged (instead of being one of many executed captives, if still the face of them, which alone would have mitigated that issue somewhat, as well as making more sense). The limited imaginations of the writing staff, particularly B&W, are still glaringly reflective of their limited perspectives. These are longer term issues rather than episode nitpicks though. The shortcuts in recent seasons are one thing, as like I said, I've made peace with the show becoming a soap opera. But it seems obvious any 'growth' they've done over the years, in response to valid criticism, has been reactive rather than truly self-reflective and absorbed. My guess is they still don't think they depicted a rape in that Jaime/Cersei scene post-Purple Wedding, for instance. So I gave up on B&W being smarter about that stuff a few seasons ago. I do seriously hope they never get to make that gross ass Civil War show they wanted though.

Going with the flow, I still enjoyed several of the character moments during the celebration. Brienne letting her guard down was neat, Tyrion's cruelty notwithstanding. The Bronn scene was great.Hound & Arya together is always a good thing. Cersei's been pretty cloistered, but Lena Headey is still giving it all she's got, while Dany & Sansa have done some of their best acting this ep, even if the writing has been subpar. Qyburn still rules. Don't care at all that the dog won't be on the show anymore, or that giant crossbows might not work like that IRL. And I like that Missandei's final word was Dracarys. Who hasn't, in their wildest dreams, imagined medieval England scoured by dragonfire so the world could have been quit of it once and for all? Actually made me want Dany to win going into next ep.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

The scorpion scene---and the show in general at this point---would be so much better if they'd followed the books more on Euron and magic. Even just a bit of hinting at it.

When the bolts tore through the ships like cardboard I was thinking 'okay it's obviously a dream sequence, wow what a surreal visual... I can forgive the cliche of them washing up on a desert isle (oh no please don't be Survivor: Unicorn Island)'....

[Malankazooie]

About the 'secret' and Dany imploring Jon to swear Bran and Sam to secrecy. I took that as 'code' that Jon would have to kill them. I mean, that's the only way Dany and Jon would ever be able to make sure it never got out. Well, sure, maybe weird Bran could be allowed to live. I mean, after all, he probably knows how it all plays out anyway, right? And he's sort of 'gone' and in his own reality anyway. But Sam, he'd have to die. And then Jon would have to kill Gilly and the child and clean up all the loose ends and then it would just snowball out of control from there.

And just an aside about Qyburn. Did any of you guys get the icy spine, creepy heebie-jeebies when he said - "no, it is not a pleasant sound" - about the screams of children burning alive. Like, this mad fuck has intimate experience knowing this sound.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

They should have just had Qyburn discover (how to use) gunpowder (or better)....

[QuickTidal]

worry, on 06 May 2019 - 05:54 PM, said:

The big flaws in this episode for me were Sansa attributing her growth to her abusers

I can see what you're saying here, but honestly...this is very much "I went through all this shit so I could become the best at seeing it, and routing it out in future and leading on my own". Her growth can still be her own...while acknowledging that without having gone through all that abusive crap, she might still be the "little bird", the vapid princess from Winterfell who cared only about princes, and dresses, ect. I don't think that's attributing her growth to her abusers, but instead is illustrating how going through shit often makes you ten times stronger.

worry, on 06 May 2019 - 05:54 PM, said:

Tyrion being cruel to Brienne for no good reason,

Sorry, cruel? You mean his question while they openly and drunkenly played the Westeros version of "I never"? I mean, that game is exactly what Tyrion did. It would be like playing Truth or Dare and being offput by the dare...that's the whole point.

worry, on 06 May 2019 - 05:54 PM, said:

and Missandei being the only captive and getting fridge

I don't think it's fridging when it's the female best friend...being driven over the edge by the death. Missandei herself loved that she went out as she did. I feel it's unfair to always bring out that term when it's only really revenant in certain circumstances, and if we call it out on every death made to make a person "react" fridging, then we won't be left with much drama.

worry, on 06 May 2019 - 05:54 PM, said:

The limited imaginations of the writing staff, particularly B&W, are still glaringly reflective of their limited perspectives. These are longer term issues rather than episode nitpicks though. The shortcuts in recent seasons are one thing, as like I said, I've made peace with the show becoming a soap opera. But it seems obvious any 'growth' they've done over the years, in response to valid criticism, has been reactive rather than truly self-reflective and absorbed. My guess is they still don't think they depicted a rape in that Jaime/Cersei scene post-Purple Wedding, for instance. So I gave up on B&W being smarter about that stuff a few seasons ago. I do seriously hope they never get to make that gross ass Civil War show they wanted though.

Buckle up, they are making a Star Wars trilogy.

worry, on 06 May 2019 - 05:54 PM, said:

Brienne letting her guard down was neat, Tyrion's cruelty notwithstanding.

This scene is a bunch of knights drunkenly playing "I Never" with each other, uncomfortable questions and answers and all...the minute you move her into a position of "victim" because a question hit close to home, you steal her agency as a knight and equal of these people. Don't do that.

worry, on 06 May 2019 - 05:54 PM, said:

Sansa have done some of their best acting this ep, even if the writing has been subpar.

I love Sansa...but Sophie Turner cannot act. She's one-note. This is evidenced in her multi-film, terrible portrayal of young Jean Grey.

[nacht]

Andorion, on 06 May 2019 - 12:09 PM, said:

Welp, this was utter shit
Scorpions/ballistas do not work that way. They are not that accurate, especially from a ship. And they definitely cannot wreck other ships. They simply do not work like that.

Scouting is a thing. There is no way Dany could not have seen Euron's navy on the crystal clear day.

Why did Dany not kill the grossly outnumbered Unsullied and Dany who were so conveniently standing well within bowshot?
Why has no one asked super-assassin world-saviour Arya to kill Cersei, especially given that she is on her list?
Jon just kicks Ghost out. Infuriating.

This season is just bad. There are no excuses to be made here.

There is a significant chance that Dany is going to nuke KL. Jaimie and Jon might both die in the process. I think the twist ending will be Gendry being King, now that he has been legitimized.

Come to think of it a dragon rider is a great scout.

[nacht]

Nevyn, on 06 May 2019 - 05:45 PM, said:

Gorefest, on 06 May 2019 - 01:06 PM, said:

Jon sending Ghost away. The final nail to the book coffin. Gosh, this series has slipped its moorings. Just need to keep reminding myself to enjoy it in its own right. And I do. I do. But wow do they make it taxing.

Ghost has been a weak afterthought for rather a long time now. Shown just enough for the show to be able to say "see we didn't forget him"

How did Jon survive? It had something to do with Ghost.
With the warg magic, ghost basically held his soul while Jon's body recovered. (sort of like a coma)

[Cause]

nacht, on 06 May 2019 - 06:43 PM, said:

Nevyn, on 06 May 2019 - 05:45 PM, said:

Gorefest, on 06 May 2019 - 01:06 PM, said:

Jon sending Ghost away. The final nail to the book coffin. Gosh, this series has slipped its moorings. Just need to keep reminding myself to enjoy it in its own right. And I do. I do. But wow do they make it taxing.

Ghost has been a weak afterthought for rather a long time now. Shown just enough for the show to be able to say "see we didn't forget him"

How did Jon survive? It had something to do with Ghost.
With the warg magic, ghost basically held his soul while Jon's body recovered. (sort of like a coma)

Everytime beric id resurrected in the books he is less himself. Ghost protecting jond soul is a book idea. The show has forgotteb the wolves matter since season 1.

[worry]

QT, I get what they were going for, and I believe it was the general thrust of the scene (she mentions feeding Ramsey to the dogs, which was nice). It just sucks they deflated it with a very dude-bro, very tropey suffering-builds-women's-character framing that centered the abusers as necessary catalysts, rather than her survival of them, in that parting line. There's a difference between acknowledging how what you've been through has shaped you and giving yourself credit for it, and thanking your abusers like an Oscar winner thanks her agent. I think the scene was mostly going for the former, and through laziness or whatever ended on the latter. If you think I'm drawing too fine a line, I probably can't convince you, but the otherwise good scene landed with a thud for me.


On the Tyrion thing, we're much farther apart. It seemed like Tyrion very deliberately turned the fun game into a pointed remark in order to hit Brienne in a sore spot. He knew that would be her reaction and did it anyway. That has nothing to do with her knighthood or her agency, it's a matter of the writers making Tyrion a mean-spirited chud to move the plot along. I'm sure the rationalization was that he was just mentioning the elephant in the room, but it very much read like him deliberately 'negging' Brienne for the benefit of his brother, being a good 'wing man.' In other words, it was mean and out of character (maybe something Tyrion in S1 would do, but S8 Tyrion should have had no part in that kind of thing), and brutishly retrograde male writing once again. That it 'worked' I'm willing to chalk up to Brienne & Jaime heading in that direction anyway and not really needing Tyrion's prodding.




I have no problem with B&W doing Star Wars. I'm not throwing the baby out with the bathwater here. They've written good, bad, & ugly. And at least with Star Wars, we can be assured that their first drafts won't be what makes it to the screen.

[Traveller]

Regarding Jaime and Brienne - I didn't read that parting scene in any other way other than conveying his intent to go and kill her. He didn't specify to Brienne on purpose, to stop her from following, and because he's likely going to die taking her down, which he sees as justice for the crimes he committed in her name.

All kind of predictable this ep - I called that dragon bolt about two seconds before it happened. The fact that Jon wasn't flying it was a giveaway. Dumb way to take it out of the picture though; range, accuracy, power, none of those things would have been good enough to bring a dragon down in that world as they've built it.

[polishgenius]

I had that thought about that scene but then a couple hours later I read this interview with Shane Meadows about abuse he suffered as a youngster and he says that if given the chance he wouldn't change it because it's what made him the person he is, so they seem to have somewhat captured something. Obviously he has a lot more space to talk about how much it hurt and how much work it was to overcome it but given the constraints of the scene I don't think that was ultimately handled too badly, though it could have taken a minute or two more maybe to make it a bit more clear what they were aiming for.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Bit of a mess punctuated with some good moments. The "pressing fast forward" is showing badly now for me.

I've really tried to suspend disbelief with the details, tactics etc.... but the scorpions destroying the ships tipped me past that and threw me right out of the episode.

Rhaegal going down with barely any fanfare was just... meh. Mad Dany has been coming though and it's good that they seemingly finally committed to it.

I like Jaime and Brienne. Tyrion's niggling felt a bit too suddenly on the nose but that may have been poor writing or deliberate, I can't really tell. Hopefully the interpretation given is correct and Jaime is off to kill Cersei, and was preventing Brienne from following him/trying to talk him out of it. But with how messy the writing has been I'm just not sure.

I liked Sandor and Arya heading out together. The return of Bronn was also pretty good.

Ghost..... meh. Felt sorry for him being left but he's been such an after thought throughout it's not surprising.

Poor Missandei though. So much about it was wrong/silly but Tyrion's speech was good (wonder what Euron may think of why he already knew about Cersei being pregnant, if he does think about it?) and I did enjoy her as a character.

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 06 May 2019 - 08:46 PM

[Mezla PigDog]

Yes, this one was meh. The best thing about it is that it has made me want to get the rest of the books and read them all again. Previous episodes have made me want to start the tv series from scratch but now I'm craving smart writing again.

I like how dumb Jon is. He may not be Ned's son but by god, he's as stupid as him. No wonder Varys is going to make a play for him, he'll be so much easier to manipulate.

I hope Jaime is on his way back to be with Cersei proper. Although actually I was about to type that killing her and proving he's good will be too dull but I realised he will have to kill his own unborn child so I guess he will be damned either way.

[Tiste Simeon]

Yeah this felt a bit filler which I usually don't mind cos hey not every episode can be action packed and intense as last week's one, but when you've only got 6 episodes to wrap up arguably the biggest TV show of the past however many years, is filler really the way to go? Everything was just a set up for something else only there's not much "else" left to come...

Loved the Bronn scene. Loved everything Arya and the Hound. Will miss Tormund if this truly is goodbye.

Why the heck Cersei didn't take out Dany with one of those Ballistae, I really don't know. We know how far they can travel... 🙄

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Briar King, on 06 May 2019 - 08:25 PM, said:

I'd love a new Civil War show. Been itching to read or watch something new this past week.

It was going to be an alternate history in which the South either won or successfully seceded and (iirc) where the Confederacy and US (de jure) slavery (outside of prison) still exist today(-ish). Outcry was (mostly) that people didn't think they'd be able to handle it well... they haven't improved their case.

[Edit: Forced labor is still legal in US prisons; the 13th amendment has an exception for people convicted of a crime, though the wording refers to it as 'involuntary labor' instead of 'slavery'....]

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 06 May 2019 - 10:37 PM