[Tattersail_]

Tapper, on 31 July 2018 - 11:20 AM, said:

Tattersail_, on 31 July 2018 - 07:52 AM, said:

Free refresh

Tapper = Racial PN to be used once your strategy counters are used up.

I think these are very fair terms.

Anyone have any issues?

Damned right I have issues.

Let's go over to Jo (from Cobham) to explain it to you, sort of.

Hello mister alien, this is Jo from Cobham. I have been asked by the nice man of the ministry to explain to you all about costs. I says I don't know what costs, Reggie does me finances. He's a good boy, Reggie. And I was supposed to be renum'rated for this, Reggie says, not get costs. The nice man of the ministry, he says. Wants me to explain opp'tunity costs to you, he says. I asks, what are opp'tunity costs? He says you want some of our boys to help you out, he says. He says, guns and men are just one thing. Cheap, he says. 'bout a factory's worth. I says a factory isn't cheap. My Reginald, he worked in a factory and all those fancy robots are pretty expensive. Matter of perspective, the nice man says. He says, the Hacan won't care 'bout a factory. They swim in money except they gives most of it to the L1z1x. I never knew Lizzie was rich, I says. Her kneesocks have holes, I says. No, the L1z1x, he says. But they are not important. The Hacan are. Whose the Hacan, I asks? So I ask the computer. Feline desert dwellers organized in merchant houses, is what it says. I asks the computer does that really mean they're kitties? It says permutations across the universe do result in outcomes that match up with Japanese antropomorphic cartoon characters from the last decade of the twentieth century. I says I don't know what that means. Reggie says I shouldn't care and that it is not very dipl'matic to ask anyways, he says. So I won't. Anyway, the nice man of the ministry says, guns and men are cheap. But you need to spend serious effort in getting them from a dock to where you want them to go and that is where the price comes from. Galaxy's a big place. But Sol Special Forces are an outcome: they're everywhere already, he says, just need to be made official. Giving them a uniform or somesuch I gather, but that does not answer why a Hacan would use people like us instead of kitties like hisself. But I can ask you now you're here, mister Hacan. Why do you?

Or, to put it in a bullet list:

1. You mention you want to use my PN when I am out of Strategic tokens, BUT:
1a. You have 1 Tactical action and your Strategic. You will need to play that PN as a component action.
1b. I have 2 Tacticals plus my Strategic and I can play Strategics in between as a Tactical, meaning I will likely pass after you will.
1c. I also might want to save Strategic tokens to Orbital Drop later in the round to fortify gains made from my Tactical actions.
1d. You're not going to spend massive amounts of TGs on Influence for Leadership, considering Establish Trade Routes is up for grabs this turn.
--> Chances are you will have to either play the PN or pass while I still hold Strategic tokens.

2. If you pop the PN while I still have Strategic tokens, the cost to me is the same as a non-free refresh (a Strategic token).
2a. We have already established under 1) that there's a significant chance that I will still have Strategic tokens when you are on your last action. Are you then passing without using the PN?
--> if you do pas, what is the actual gain here for you? And if you play the PN and take my CT, what is the actual gain for me?

3. I can already score Establish Trade Routes and don't need a refresh to score it (unlike several others).
3a. From your PoV: the situation above makes me less likely to refresh commodities at any cost, what you ask me is still an asset even if it doesn't slurp up a CT.
3b. From my point of view, you also didn't negotiate, you made a demand.



Since I found 3 reasons why your offer sucks, I will give you 3 counter offers instead.

A. You just give me a free refresh.
--> Nothing gained, nothing lost, except that I will keep your largesse in mind and might make you a decent offer if/when you run into trouble.

B. You give me a free refresh and you pay me 3 TG in return for my Racial PN, and you can use the PN whenever you want, or trade it for all I care.
--> basically, you cover the cost of the Strategic token.

C. You give me a free refresh, your Trade Agreement PN and 3 TG, all on the turn this round in which you use TRADE. You get my Support for the Throne.
I promise to use your PN next round when you refresh commodities, making sure you can score Establish Trade Routes this round (if you currently hold your own Trade PN).

You made something I thought simple to look quite so complicated. My plans for this round have not changed, I didn't negotiate with IH to hold leadership for 1 turn to then mess up what I intended to do this round.

The way I see it I will have either 4 or 5 turns this round before having to pass. So i'd play it on either my 5th or 6th turn or when you have ran out of SCT's

I am not looking at the trade routes VP this round.

So does the underlined still hold water?

The second underlined is why I put it in a list to begin with, because I get to trade with everyone I discuss it with everyone.

How does Orbital drop work? I am agreeing to only use your PN when you are out of strategic tokens, are you planning to pass with strategic tokens in your hand?

B and C are out of the question as I only wanted to drop infantry on a planet instead of carrying them, it'd be waaay to expensive to give you TG's and i'd prefer to keep the 6 tg's I get from trading commodities.

I

[Tattersail_]

Obviously in work, so a few posts went by before my response to Tapper. Honestly was toying with A anyway.

[Khellendros]

I will also keep your largesse in mind Tatts should you give me a free refresh

[Tattersail_]

Khellendros, on 31 July 2018 - 12:10 PM, said:

I will also keep your largesse in mind Tatts should you give me a free refresh

You're giving me 1 TG anyway aren't you for the wormhole, so i'll update accordingly

[Khellendros]

Tattersail_, on 31 July 2018 - 12:13 PM, said:

Khellendros, on 31 July 2018 - 12:10 PM, said:

I will also keep your largesse in mind Tatts should you give me a free refresh

You're giving me 1 TG anyway aren't you for the wormhole, so i'll update accordingly

Ah okay, cool.

[Tapper]

Tattersail_, on 31 July 2018 - 11:57 AM, said:

Tapper, on 31 July 2018 - 11:20 AM, said:

Tattersail_, on 31 July 2018 - 07:52 AM, said:

Free refresh

Tapper = Racial PN to be used once your strategy counters are used up.

I think these are very fair terms.

Anyone have any issues?

Damned right I have issues.

Let's go over to Jo (from Cobham) to explain it to you, sort of.

Hello mister alien, this is Jo from Cobham. I have been asked by the nice man of the ministry to explain to you all about costs. I says I don't know what costs, Reggie does me finances. He's a good boy, Reggie. And I was supposed to be renum'rated for this, Reggie says, not get costs. The nice man of the ministry, he says. Wants me to explain opp'tunity costs to you, he says. I asks, what are opp'tunity costs? He says you want some of our boys to help you out, he says. He says, guns and men are just one thing. Cheap, he says. 'bout a factory's worth. I says a factory isn't cheap. My Reginald, he worked in a factory and all those fancy robots are pretty expensive. Matter of perspective, the nice man says. He says, the Hacan won't care 'bout a factory. They swim in money except they gives most of it to the L1z1x. I never knew Lizzie was rich, I says. Her kneesocks have holes, I says. No, the L1z1x, he says. But they are not important. The Hacan are. Whose the Hacan, I asks? So I ask the computer. Feline desert dwellers organized in merchant houses, is what it says. I asks the computer does that really mean they're kitties? It says permutations across the universe do result in outcomes that match up with Japanese antropomorphic cartoon characters from the last decade of the twentieth century. I says I don't know what that means. Reggie says I shouldn't care and that it is not very dipl'matic to ask anyways, he says. So I won't. Anyway, the nice man of the ministry says, guns and men are cheap. But you need to spend serious effort in getting them from a dock to where you want them to go and that is where the price comes from. Galaxy's a big place. But Sol Special Forces are an outcome: they're everywhere already, he says, just need to be made official. Giving them a uniform or somesuch I gather, but that does not answer why a Hacan would use people like us instead of kitties like hisself. But I can ask you now you're here, mister Hacan. Why do you?

Or, to put it in a bullet list:

1. You mention you want to use my PN when I am out of Strategic tokens, BUT:
1a. You have 1 Tactical action and your Strategic. You will need to play that PN as a component action.
1b. I have 2 Tacticals plus my Strategic and I can play Strategics in between as a Tactical, meaning I will likely pass after you will.
1c. I also might want to save Strategic tokens to Orbital Drop later in the round to fortify gains made from my Tactical actions.
1d. You're not going to spend massive amounts of TGs on Influence for Leadership, considering Establish Trade Routes is up for grabs this turn.
--> Chances are you will have to either play the PN or pass while I still hold Strategic tokens.

2. If you pop the PN while I still have Strategic tokens, the cost to me is the same as a non-free refresh (a Strategic token).
2a. We have already established under 1) that there's a significant chance that I will still have Strategic tokens when you are on your last action. Are you then passing without using the PN?
--> if you do pas, what is the actual gain here for you? And if you play the PN and take my CT, what is the actual gain for me?

3. I can already score Establish Trade Routes and don't need a refresh to score it (unlike several others).
3a. From your PoV: the situation above makes me less likely to refresh commodities at any cost, what you ask me is still an asset even if it doesn't slurp up a CT.
3b. From my point of view, you also didn't negotiate, you made a demand.



Since I found 3 reasons why your offer sucks, I will give you 3 counter offers instead.

A. You just give me a free refresh.
--> Nothing gained, nothing lost, except that I will keep your largesse in mind and might make you a decent offer if/when you run into trouble.

B. You give me a free refresh and you pay me 3 TG in return for my Racial PN, and you can use the PN whenever you want, or trade it for all I care.
--> basically, you cover the cost of the Strategic token.

C. You give me a free refresh, your Trade Agreement PN and 3 TG, all on the turn this round in which you use TRADE. You get my Support for the Throne.
I promise to use your PN next round when you refresh commodities, making sure you can score Establish Trade Routes this round (if you currently hold your own Trade PN).

You made something I thought simple to look quite so complicated. My plans for this round have not changed, I didn't negotiate with IH to hold leadership for 1 turn to then mess up what I intended to do this round.

The way I see it I will have either 4 or 5 turns this round before having to pass. So i'd play it on either my 5th or 6th turn or when you have ran out of SCT's

I am not looking at the trade routes VP this round.

So does the underlined still hold water?

The second underlined is why I put it in a list to begin with, because I get to trade with everyone I discuss it with everyone.

How does Orbital drop work? I am agreeing to only use your PN when you are out of strategic tokens, are you planning to pass with strategic tokens in your hand?

B and C are out of the question as I only wanted to drop infantry on a planet instead of carrying them, it'd be waaay to expensive to give you TG's and i'd prefer to keep the 6 tg's I get from trading commodities.

I

If you plan it to be negotiations, don't call them 'terms'?

Perhaps the underlined under 1 still holds water, although I will admit I hadn't calculated on you using TG for Leadership.
With 1 CT gained from Leadership, I am looking at up to 4 actions now (reserving 1 Strategic for secondaries), excluding component actions.

The PN works that if I have a Strategic, it's consumed, whether I have passed or not.
Essentially, trading it means I need to burn through my Strategic CTs until I have zero (and/or the PN is played).

[Tattersail_]

So that's everyone with a free refresh then. Tapper remind me never to negotiate a deal with you

[Tattersail_]

Tapper, on 31 July 2018 - 12:16 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 31 July 2018 - 11:57 AM, said:

Tapper, on 31 July 2018 - 11:20 AM, said:

Tattersail_, on 31 July 2018 - 07:52 AM, said:

Free refresh

Tapper = Racial PN to be used once your strategy counters are used up.

I think these are very fair terms.

Anyone have any issues?

Damned right I have issues.

Let's go over to Jo (from Cobham) to explain it to you, sort of.

Hello mister alien, this is Jo from Cobham. I have been asked by the nice man of the ministry to explain to you all about costs. I says I don't know what costs, Reggie does me finances. He's a good boy, Reggie. And I was supposed to be renum'rated for this, Reggie says, not get costs. The nice man of the ministry, he says. Wants me to explain opp'tunity costs to you, he says. I asks, what are opp'tunity costs? He says you want some of our boys to help you out, he says. He says, guns and men are just one thing. Cheap, he says. 'bout a factory's worth. I says a factory isn't cheap. My Reginald, he worked in a factory and all those fancy robots are pretty expensive. Matter of perspective, the nice man says. He says, the Hacan won't care 'bout a factory. They swim in money except they gives most of it to the L1z1x. I never knew Lizzie was rich, I says. Her kneesocks have holes, I says. No, the L1z1x, he says. But they are not important. The Hacan are. Whose the Hacan, I asks? So I ask the computer. Feline desert dwellers organized in merchant houses, is what it says. I asks the computer does that really mean they're kitties? It says permutations across the universe do result in outcomes that match up with Japanese antropomorphic cartoon characters from the last decade of the twentieth century. I says I don't know what that means. Reggie says I shouldn't care and that it is not very dipl'matic to ask anyways, he says. So I won't. Anyway, the nice man of the ministry says, guns and men are cheap. But you need to spend serious effort in getting them from a dock to where you want them to go and that is where the price comes from. Galaxy's a big place. But Sol Special Forces are an outcome: they're everywhere already, he says, just need to be made official. Giving them a uniform or somesuch I gather, but that does not answer why a Hacan would use people like us instead of kitties like hisself. But I can ask you now you're here, mister Hacan. Why do you?

Or, to put it in a bullet list:

1. You mention you want to use my PN when I am out of Strategic tokens, BUT:
1a. You have 1 Tactical action and your Strategic. You will need to play that PN as a component action.
1b. I have 2 Tacticals plus my Strategic and I can play Strategics in between as a Tactical, meaning I will likely pass after you will.
1c. I also might want to save Strategic tokens to Orbital Drop later in the round to fortify gains made from my Tactical actions.
1d. You're not going to spend massive amounts of TGs on Influence for Leadership, considering Establish Trade Routes is up for grabs this turn.
--> Chances are you will have to either play the PN or pass while I still hold Strategic tokens.

2. If you pop the PN while I still have Strategic tokens, the cost to me is the same as a non-free refresh (a Strategic token).
2a. We have already established under 1) that there's a significant chance that I will still have Strategic tokens when you are on your last action. Are you then passing without using the PN?
--> if you do pas, what is the actual gain here for you? And if you play the PN and take my CT, what is the actual gain for me?

3. I can already score Establish Trade Routes and don't need a refresh to score it (unlike several others).
3a. From your PoV: the situation above makes me less likely to refresh commodities at any cost, what you ask me is still an asset even if it doesn't slurp up a CT.
3b. From my point of view, you also didn't negotiate, you made a demand.



Since I found 3 reasons why your offer sucks, I will give you 3 counter offers instead.

A. You just give me a free refresh.
--> Nothing gained, nothing lost, except that I will keep your largesse in mind and might make you a decent offer if/when you run into trouble.

B. You give me a free refresh and you pay me 3 TG in return for my Racial PN, and you can use the PN whenever you want, or trade it for all I care.
--> basically, you cover the cost of the Strategic token.

C. You give me a free refresh, your Trade Agreement PN and 3 TG, all on the turn this round in which you use TRADE. You get my Support for the Throne.
I promise to use your PN next round when you refresh commodities, making sure you can score Establish Trade Routes this round (if you currently hold your own Trade PN).

You made something I thought simple to look quite so complicated. My plans for this round have not changed, I didn't negotiate with IH to hold leadership for 1 turn to then mess up what I intended to do this round.

The way I see it I will have either 4 or 5 turns this round before having to pass. So i'd play it on either my 5th or 6th turn or when you have ran out of SCT's

I am not looking at the trade routes VP this round.

So does the underlined still hold water?

The second underlined is why I put it in a list to begin with, because I get to trade with everyone I discuss it with everyone.

How does Orbital drop work? I am agreeing to only use your PN when you are out of strategic tokens, are you planning to pass with strategic tokens in your hand?

B and C are out of the question as I only wanted to drop infantry on a planet instead of carrying them, it'd be waaay to expensive to give you TG's and i'd prefer to keep the 6 tg's I get from trading commodities.

I

If you plan it to be negotiations, don't call them 'terms'?

Perhaps the underlined under 1 still holds water, although I will admit I hadn't calculated on you using TG for Leadership.
With 1 CT gained from Leadership, I am looking at up to 4 actions now (reserving 1 Strategic for secondaries), excluding component actions.

The PN works that if I have a Strategic, it's consumed, whether I have passed or not.
Essentially, trading it means I need to burn through my Strategic CTs until I have zero (and/or the PN is played).

Calculating my moves and what I need to do, those 2 infantry could come in handy next round you see, so using them late this round after you had exhausted your sct's and promising not to use it beforehand I thought would be ideal as you don't lose out. Can you orbital drop after you have passed?

This post has been edited by Tattersail_: 31 July 2018 - 12:24 PM

[Tapper]

Tattersail_, on 31 July 2018 - 12:23 PM, said:

Calculating my moves and what I need to do, those 2 infantry could come in handy next round you see, so using them late this round after you had exhausted your sct's and promising not to use it beforehand I thought would be ideal as you don't lose out. Can you orbital drop after you have passed?

Orbital drop is an active action, like playing a component action or taking a tactical. I can't do that after passing.

[Tattersail_]

Tapper, on 31 July 2018 - 12:31 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 31 July 2018 - 12:23 PM, said:

Calculating my moves and what I need to do, those 2 infantry could come in handy next round you see, so using them late this round after you had exhausted your sct's and promising not to use it beforehand I thought would be ideal as you don't lose out. Can you orbital drop after you have passed?

Orbital drop is an active action, like playing a component action or taking a tactical. I can't do that after passing.

So would you be amenable to giving me the PN later in the round when you see how your CT's are?

[D'rek]

Tattersail_, on 31 July 2018 - 12:21 PM, said:

So that's everyone with a free refresh then. Tapper remind me never to negotiate a deal with you

Except for Khell, right?

edit: just to make it abundantly clear, Khell has enough trade goods and influence planets to claim the custodians token, fulfill Establish Trade Routes, and park an even bigger fleet than he already has into Mecatol Rex this round. Giving him a free refresh makes that even easier for him to do all of.

What really needs to happen is that he does *not* get a free refresh and Tapper/Nom grab Wellon+Centauri/Gral right away, forcing Khell to spend his trade goods as influence for the custodians token and not the public objective, and also limiting his ability to buy more strategy CTs so he can't start up a second Space Dock or do too many other secondaries.

This post has been edited by D'rek: 31 July 2018 - 01:46 PM

[Tapper]

Tattersail_, on 31 July 2018 - 12:35 PM, said:

Tapper, on 31 July 2018 - 12:31 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 31 July 2018 - 12:23 PM, said:

Calculating my moves and what I need to do, those 2 infantry could come in handy next round you see, so using them late this round after you had exhausted your sct's and promising not to use it beforehand I thought would be ideal as you don't lose out. Can you orbital drop after you have passed?

Orbital drop is an active action, like playing a component action or taking a tactical. I can't do that after passing.

So would you be amenable to giving me the PN later in the round when you see how your CT's are?

Let me see how things go.

[Gnaw]

D, on 31 July 2018 - 01:27 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 31 July 2018 - 12:21 PM, said:

So that's everyone with a free refresh then. Tapper remind me never to negotiate a deal with you

Except for Khell, right?

*popcorn*

[Tattersail_]

D, on 31 July 2018 - 01:27 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 31 July 2018 - 12:21 PM, said:

So that's everyone with a free refresh then. Tapper remind me never to negotiate a deal with you

Except for Khell, right?

edit: just to make it abundantly clear, Khell has enough trade goods and influence planets to claim the custodians token, fulfill Establish Trade Routes, and park an even bigger fleet than he already has into Mecatol Rex this round. Giving him a free refresh makes that even easier for him to do all of.

What really needs to happen is that he does *not* get a free refresh and Tapper/Nom grab Wellon+Centauri/Gral right away, forcing Khell to spend his trade goods as influence for the custodians token and not the public objective, and also limiting his ability to buy more strategy CTs so he can't start up a second Space Dock or do too many other secondaries.

I think that's why Gnaw wants Tapper to play construction turn 1, to block Khell from building a second space docks. What you're describing is scary shit but that's going to happen if I give hima free refresh or not.

I think to keep you both happy I'll stick to charging him an additional 1 TG, the one from the wormhole and 1 from refresh, it's cheaper than him spending a CT and he's not getting it for nothing.

Khell, what are your thoughts on this?

D'rek would you be happy enough with that scenario?

Also he did not take Imperial so cannot double up on points like that this turn.

[twelve]

Imperial Historian, on 31 July 2018 - 07:07 AM, said:

twelve, on 30 July 2018 - 07:15 PM, said:

IH, looks like Tatts is going to charge you for my refresh. And Gnaw is stating once I'm gone he won't attack Tatts which leaves you and Khell (who I assume will be parked in the asteroid field next to Rex) as his likely targets. If you pop Leadership first I'll have the ability to pay for the refresh but I would like some additional things to go with it that would be mutually beneficial to you as well.

Nom, Khell how much will it cost me to get one or both of you to hit Gnaw's homeworld?

What do you want? I think gnaw will probably turtle after this but you might be right. Since tatts is trying to extort me now though...

This is what I'm thinking. You Attack Gnaws Homeworld as your first action. That will force Gnaw to pop his ceasefire card. or lose one of his homeworlds I plop Diplomacy on the Meer system trapping his fleet there. For your second action you play leadership which still fulfills Tatts requirement for your deal for his hazhaard planet (see you are hedging your bets here). I attack Everra. And Then depending what Gnaw does you can attack Daemon to gain the Public objectiive and my sftt card. or if it's too much of a risk you complete your deal with tTatts.. The longer Gnaw has to deal with me the longer it takes before he can bear his flagship to cause trouble for you or Khell. This plan also has the chance of actually destroying this flagship too. which also is a good thing for his neighbors.

[D'rek]

Tattersail_, on 31 July 2018 - 02:04 PM, said:

Also he did not take Imperial so cannot double up on points like that this turn.

Custodians token and one PO can absolutely be doubled up.

Plus your and Gnaw's talk of how you're going to play POLITICS, if implemented, gives Khell a middle-of-the-order Strategy Card pick next round - probably setting up for an easy grab of IMPERIAL.

Tattersail_, on 31 July 2018 - 02:04 PM, said:

I think that's why Gnaw wants Tapper to play construction turn 1, to block Khell from building a second space docks. What you're describing is scary shit but that's going to happen if I give hima free refresh or not.

Which is very unlikely to happen since Tapper has nowhere useful to build a new dock at the moment.

Tattersail_, on 31 July 2018 - 02:04 PM, said:

I think to keep you both happy I'll stick to charging him an additional 1 TG, the one from the wormhole and 1 from refresh, it's cheaper than him spending a CT and he's not getting it for nothing.

When you know for a fact that the free refresh will enable someone to take the custodians token and likely an IMPERIAL+MR play next round (and also a PO this round, too), you shouldn't be so concerned with "keeping them happy" and offering the same price as everyone else.

Tattersail_, on 31 July 2018 - 02:04 PM, said:

D'rek would you be happy enough with that scenario?

No.

[Gnaw]

twelve, on 31 July 2018 - 02:19 PM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 31 July 2018 - 07:07 AM, said:

twelve, on 30 July 2018 - 07:15 PM, said:

IH, looks like Tatts is going to charge you for my refresh. And Gnaw is stating once I'm gone he won't attack Tatts which leaves you and Khell (who I assume will be parked in the asteroid field next to Rex) as his likely targets. If you pop Leadership first I'll have the ability to pay for the refresh but I would like some additional things to go with it that would be mutually beneficial to you as well.

Nom, Khell how much will it cost me to get one or both of you to hit Gnaw's homeworld?

What do you want? I think gnaw will probably turtle after this but you might be right. Since tatts is trying to extort me now though...

This is what I'm thinking. You Attack Gnaws Homeworld as your first action. That will force Gnaw to pop his ceasefire card. or lose one of his homeworlds I plop Diplomacy on the Meer system trapping his fleet there. For your second action you play leadership which still fulfills Tatts requirement for your deal for his hazhaard planet (see you are hedging your bets here). I attack Everra. And Then depending what Gnaw does you can attack Daemon to gain the Public objectiive and my sftt card. or if it's too much of a risk you complete your deal with tTatts.. The longer Gnaw has to deal with me the longer it takes before he can bear his flagship to cause trouble for you or Khell. This plan also has the chance of actually destroying this flagship too. which also is a good thing for his neighbors.

He's already made his first action.
It’s your turn.

This post has been edited by Gnaw: 31 July 2018 - 02:28 PM

[Tattersail_]

D, on 31 July 2018 - 02:20 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 31 July 2018 - 02:04 PM, said:

Also he did not take Imperial so cannot double up on points like that this turn.

Custodians token and one PO can absolutely be doubled up.

Plus your and Gnaw's talk of how you're going to play POLITICS, if implemented, gives Khell a middle-of-the-order Strategy Card pick next round - probably setting up for an easy grab of IMPERIAL.

Tattersail_, on 31 July 2018 - 02:04 PM, said:

I think that's why Gnaw wants Tapper to play construction turn 1, to block Khell from building a second space docks. What you're describing is scary shit but that's going to happen if I give hima free refresh or not.

Which is very unlikely to happen since Tapper has nowhere useful to build a new dock at the moment.

Tattersail_, on 31 July 2018 - 02:04 PM, said:

I think to keep you both happy I'll stick to charging him an additional 1 TG, the one from the wormhole and 1 from refresh, it's cheaper than him spending a CT and he's not getting it for nothing.

When you know for a fact that the free refresh will enable someone to take the custodians token and likely an IMPERIAL+MR play next round (and also a PO this round, too), you shouldn't be so concerned with "keeping them happy" and offering the same price as everyone else.

Tattersail_, on 31 July 2018 - 02:04 PM, said:

D'rek would you be happy enough with that scenario?

No.

Thanks D'rek.

[Gnaw]

Gnaw, on 31 July 2018 - 02:27 PM, said:

twelve, on 31 July 2018 - 02:19 PM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 31 July 2018 - 07:07 AM, said:

twelve, on 30 July 2018 - 07:15 PM, said:

IH, looks like Tatts is going to charge you for my refresh. And Gnaw is stating once I'm gone he won't attack Tatts which leaves you and Khell (who I assume will be parked in the asteroid field next to Rex) as his likely targets. If you pop Leadership first I'll have the ability to pay for the refresh but I would like some additional things to go with it that would be mutually beneficial to you as well.

Nom, Khell how much will it cost me to get one or both of you to hit Gnaw's homeworld?

What do you want? I think gnaw will probably turtle after this but you might be right. Since tatts is trying to extort me now though...

This is what I'm thinking. You Attack Gnaws Homeworld as your first action. That will force Gnaw to pop his ceasefire card. or lose one of his homeworlds I plop Diplomacy on the Meer system trapping his fleet there. For your second action you play leadership which still fulfills Tatts requirement for your deal for his hazhaard planet (see you are hedging your bets here). I attack Everra. And Then depending what Gnaw does you can attack Daemon to gain the Public objectiive and my sftt card. or if it's too much of a risk you complete your deal with tTatts.. The longer Gnaw has to deal with me the longer it takes before he can bear his flagship to cause trouble for you or Khell. This plan also has the chance of actually destroying this flagship too. which also is a good thing for his neighbors.

He's already made his first action.
It's your turn.

And now we wait for IH to come on, see Twelve's proposal, reply that he's already taken his turn, then Twelve to say something to the effect of "but it's still your turn you can change your mind", etc etc.

[Tattersail_]

Gnaw, on 31 July 2018 - 02:44 PM, said:

Gnaw, on 31 July 2018 - 02:27 PM, said:

twelve, on 31 July 2018 - 02:19 PM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 31 July 2018 - 07:07 AM, said:

twelve, on 30 July 2018 - 07:15 PM, said:

IH, looks like Tatts is going to charge you for my refresh. And Gnaw is stating once I'm gone he won't attack Tatts which leaves you and Khell (who I assume will be parked in the asteroid field next to Rex) as his likely targets. If you pop Leadership first I'll have the ability to pay for the refresh but I would like some additional things to go with it that would be mutually beneficial to you as well.

Nom, Khell how much will it cost me to get one or both of you to hit Gnaw's homeworld?

What do you want? I think gnaw will probably turtle after this but you might be right. Since tatts is trying to extort me now though...

This is what I'm thinking. You Attack Gnaws Homeworld as your first action. That will force Gnaw to pop his ceasefire card. or lose one of his homeworlds I plop Diplomacy on the Meer system trapping his fleet there. For your second action you play leadership which still fulfills Tatts requirement for your deal for his hazhaard planet (see you are hedging your bets here). I attack Everra. And Then depending what Gnaw does you can attack Daemon to gain the Public objectiive and my sftt card. or if it's too much of a risk you complete your deal with tTatts.. The longer Gnaw has to deal with me the longer it takes before he can bear his flagship to cause trouble for you or Khell. This plan also has the chance of actually destroying this flagship too. which also is a good thing for his neighbors.

He's already made his first action.
It's your turn.

And now we wait for IH to come on, see Twelve's proposal, reply that he's already taken his turn, then Twelve to say something to the effect of "but it's still your turn you can change your mind", etc etc.

He's not changing his turn now and tbh I don't see IH agreeing to that deal anyway when you've had a good relationship with him.