[flea]

Although I was never fanatical enough to "learn" Elvish, I feel like I am a Tolkien fundamentalist, and I agree that this season could not be much worse. I am coming to care less about this series because I understand that this is what happens in this age of IP content. Still, my attachment to the books is very strong, 50+ years after I first read them. It is possible the storytelling will be strong, but I have little hope. Perhaps my low expectations will allow me to enjoy this, although I doubt it.

worry, on 15 May 2024 - 06:02 PM, said:

Abyss, on 15 May 2024 - 02:54 PM, said:

worry, on 14 May 2024 - 07:36 PM, said:

[ season 2 trailer ]

It's not like it could be much worse than S1.

K i take that back it absolutely could be much MUCH worse than S1, but the potential to be so much better is mostly sort of maybe there too. I hope.

That's where I'm at too. S1 was a dud more than a full-on disaster, but relative to its potential (and price tag) that's still pretty bad.
Here's a trailer breakdown (with speculation) from the Nerd of the Rings guy. If anything, it did make me a little more excited for Season 2, even if it's very cautious optimism. There are things to nerd out about in the trailer regardless.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Can't wait for them to try and convince us nobody who met Halbrand in the first series can recognise him now he has a blonde wig and is in Annatar mode...

Edit: I promised Mr NAB I would try series 2. I'll be surprised if I last more than one episode, but try I will!

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 22 May 2024 - 08:01 AM

[flea]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 22 May 2024 - 08:00 AM, said:

Can't wait for them to try and convince us nobody who met Halbrand in the first series can recognise him now he has a blonde wig and is in Annatar mode...

Edit: I promised Mr NAB I would try series 2. I'll be surprised if I last more than one episode, but try I will!

There is a lot to be said for a good hate-watch.

[worry]

We have a Tom Bombadil sighting. I repeat: We have a Tom Bombadil sighting.

https://www.theoneri...fair-exclusive/

[flea]

This is what happens when Amazon does not own rights to the Silmarillion.

[flea]

I am confused about the Stranger plot line. He looks like a wizard, and the show makes him look like Gandalf. I have read speculation that he is a blue wizard, or even Saruman. I feel like I keep missing something here. Isn't it canon that the wizards arrived during the Third Age?

[polishgenius]

Simple answer: the show isn't canon

[Abyss]

worry, on 29 May 2024 - 09:26 PM, said:

We have a Tom Bombadil sighting. I repeat: We have a Tom Bombadil sighting.

https://www.theoneri...fair-exclusive/

aaaaand i'm out.

...then again i haven't had a good hatewatch in years.

[flea]

polishgenius, on 30 May 2024 - 05:12 PM, said:

Simple answer: the show isn't canon

Agreed.

But am I correct in this detail?

[Tiste Simeon]

flea, on 30 May 2024 - 07:33 PM, said:

polishgenius, on 30 May 2024 - 05:12 PM, said:

Simple answer: the show isn't canon

Agreed.

But am I correct in this detail?

My understanding is that they don't have permission to use Gandalf so they can't obviously go "hi I'm Gandalf!" but they've made some pretty blatant hints that it's basically him.

So I suspect we'll never have an outright answer, just lots of nods and winks to it being Gandalf, without ever outright saying that this is who it is.

[Garak]

That's nuts, why don't they have permission?

[the broken]

Bombadil is in this? That's... absolutely baffling. Why?

[amphibian]

Garak, on 31 May 2024 - 09:05 AM, said:

That's nuts, why don't they have permission?

The LotR, Silmarillion, Appendixes, and whatever other stuff Tolkien worked on all have their mostly individual buckets of who has what rights to do something with them. There has always been a decent chunk of money involved in TV and/or movie rights because the books sold so well for so long, but the amounts of money involved exploded after the Jackson LotR movies.

Someone who has the rights to Bucket A and is making content from Bucket A can't use stuff from the other Buckets unless they have rights to do so.

So there's negotiations that are at least attempted to work with multiple buckets. They generally don't succeed because Christopher Tolkien mostly hated every adaptation or possible adaptation and the estate generally got screwed out of money enough that they took a very litigious attitude towards anything.

The new regime of the estate seems to be looser about things, but there's enough long term contracts in place that it's hard to do multi bucket stuff because it's both expensive and takes forever to negotiate.

This post has been edited by amphibian: 31 May 2024 - 07:20 PM

[flea]

amphibian, on 31 May 2024 - 07:18 PM, said:

Garak, on 31 May 2024 - 09:05 AM, said:

That's nuts, why don't they have permission?

The LotR, Silmarillion, Appendixes, and whatever other stuff Tolkien worked on all have their mostly individual buckets of who has what rights to do something with them. There has always been a decent chunk of money involved in TV and/or movie rights because the books sold so well for so long, but the amounts of money involved exploded after the Jackson LotR movies.

Someone who has the rights to Bucket A and is making content from Bucket A can't use stuff from the other Buckets unless they have rights to do so.

So there's negotiations that are at least attempted to work with multiple buckets. They generally don't succeed because Christopher Tolkien mostly hated every adaptation or possible adaptation and the estate generally got screwed out of money enough that they took a very litigious attitude towards anything.

The new regime of the estate seems to be looser about things, but there's enough long term contracts in place that it's hard to do multi bucket stuff because it's both expensive and takes forever to negotiate.

So the real question is: What rights did Amazon buy? Second Age is in Appendix II, the Akallabêth in the Silmarilliion, and there is a separate volume which is a collection of Second Age material.

[flea]

This article: https://www.cultures...he-silmarillion says that Amazon has the rights to the trilogy and appendices, which means Gandalf. I don't remember if the blue wizards are mentioned.

[Tsundoku]

So ... season 2 article and trailer. This seems a bit bigger than the previous trailer.

https://www.news.com...84954e9925ba876

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 27 July 2024 - 12:46 AM

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Watched the first couple of episodes.

It's a bit prettier than series 1, but so far it's exactly the same brand of idiocy that seems to be a thing in a lot of TV series now i.e. most of the cast have to be terminally stupid in order for the plot to work.

The actor playing Sauron is still decent, and Elrond and Cirdan are doing a fair bit of heavy lifting.

Most of the abandonment of the source material I get - if you ran with how these characters are actually written to have behaved around the elven rings then there'd be no conflict and very little story so it's all fairly inevitable.

Overall, not quite bad enough to stop watching, but definitely a long way short of "good".

[champ]

I've quite enjoyed this season so far. It's not amazing but not as bad as a lot of people seem to claim. I think it's entered that realm where people just love to hate on it.


Looking forward to watching the new ep tonight.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

champ, on 12 September 2024 - 01:00 PM, said:

I've quite enjoyed this season so far. It's not amazing but not as bad as a lot of people seem to claim. I think it's entered that realm where people just love to hate on it.


Looking forward to watching the new ep tonight.

Probably fair.

I was really pleasantly surprised by (from Episode 4 - I think the casting was announced but spoilers just in case)

Spoiler

Tom Bombadil

I expected them to best case irritating/ worst case dreadful and instead their interactions with The Stranger ended up being my favourite scenes of this series so far.

Episode 4 was definitely a pretty significant uptick for me, I'd be happy if it continued at that level.

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 12 September 2024 - 02:28 PM

[champ]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 12 September 2024 - 02:26 PM, said:

champ, on 12 September 2024 - 01:00 PM, said:

I've quite enjoyed this season so far. It's not amazing but not as bad as a lot of people seem to claim. I think it's entered that realm where people just love to hate on it.


Looking forward to watching the new ep tonight.

Probably fair.

I was really pleasantly surprised by (from Episode 4 - I think the casting was announced but spoilers just in case)

Spoiler

Tom Bombadil

I expected them to best case irritating/ worst case dreadful and instead their interactions with The Stranger ended up being my favourite scenes of this series so far.

Episode 4 was definitely a pretty significant uptick for me, I'd be happy if it continued at that level.

Agreed 100%.


When I learnt...

Spoiler

Ole Tom

Was going to be featured in the show, I was seriously pessimistic but same as you, I thought it turned out to be a great scene.


The one thing that does leave me frustrated is the way they portray the orcs as sympathetic, the whole "grey" that Hollywood likes to investigate at the minute. When they shown the orc family that did take me out the show for a second.


I also liked that we got to see one of the...

Spoiler

Entwives

That was a nice surprise.


What are your thoughts on The Stranger? Do you think they are going to spin it as...

Spoiler

Gandalf the Blue?