[twelve]

Tapper, on 01 May 2018 - 07:29 AM, said:

twelve, on 01 May 2018 - 01:49 AM, said:

Of the 2 I actually would like the plows hares to pass but since so many are against I'm abstaining. As for the disarement I placed my votes already

I must say, I like how you admit you bank on others doing their "civic duty" and vote the way you expect them to, while you freely vote where your profit lies.
Not sure if admitting that on thread was the very best way to handle it, though, because, as the Oracle Kkanye says:

Man, it is so hard not to act reckless
To whom much is given much is tested

And like any Oracle, many meanings can be found, but this is how the High Leader Kkim sees it:

On the one hand, it means that the Hacan's abilities bring them great riches and the opportunity to flog Speaker tokens, PNs and promises all over the board.
On the other hand, it means they are uniquely suited to be held ransom on issues like this, especially when they present a weakness and have money in their coffers.

And a weakness Hacan has: the removal of their Infantry at Thibah would cost them a turn before they can colonize Lodor.
As such, the Space Kitties have a stake in avoiding this particular scenario.

I am looking for (at the least) two other players willing to vote for Thibah, with 8 votes each.
Of course, no donkey walks when threatened with the stick: there should always be a carrot.

As such, the deal we offer Blend is the following: if Blend pays us a TG or PN each, we do not vote Thibah, but instead we vote whichever planet Twelve wants us to vote. From the profits, Twelve can (choose to) compensate Blend.
So, anyone else willing to commit at the least 8 votes on Thibah for the Compensated Disarmament?

Blend

Sounds like Tapper is trying to extort you.I have a vested interest in keeping him on the other side of the wormhole as well.we can stack our votes to avoid this.

[twelve]

Tattersail_, on 01 May 2018 - 08:11 AM, said:

Am I missing something Tapper? You are talking to Twelve about Blend.

The two agendas are:

Quote

COMPENSATED DISARMAMENT (DIRECTIVE) -- Elect a Planet
Destroy each ground force on the planet. For each unit destroyed, the player who controls that planet gains 1 trade good.

Would it not be better to vote for someone with low infantry on one planet rather than lots, because they'd be getting a lot of TG's. What are people asking here?

Quote

SWORDS TO PLOWSHARES (DIRECTIVE)FOR: Each player destroys half of their infantry (rounded up) on each planet. Each player gains a trade good for each unit they destroyed.

AGAINST: Each player gains 1 infantry on each planet they control.

Personally I'd be against this one because everyone gets a free GF.

Edit:
I only have 7 votes. So my opinion can only sway one agenda I think.

But you also need to look at invasion potential. This can slow down an immenent attack on you. No troops no loss of planets.

[Tattersail_]

twelve, on 01 May 2018 - 01:40 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 01 May 2018 - 08:11 AM, said:

Am I missing something Tapper? You are talking to Twelve about Blend.

The two agendas are:

Quote

COMPENSATED DISARMAMENT (DIRECTIVE) -- Elect a Planet
Destroy each ground force on the planet. For each unit destroyed, the player who controls that planet gains 1 trade good.

Would it not be better to vote for someone with low infantry on one planet rather than lots, because they'd be getting a lot of TG's. What are people asking here?

Quote

SWORDS TO PLOWSHARES (DIRECTIVE)FOR: Each player destroys half of their infantry (rounded up) on each planet. Each player gains a trade good for each unit they destroyed.

AGAINST: Each player gains 1 infantry on each planet they control.

Personally I'd be against this one because everyone gets a free GF.

Edit:
I only have 7 votes. So my opinion can only sway one agenda I think.

But you also need to look at invasion potential. This can slow down an immenent attack on you. No troops no loss of planets.

No production either?

[Tapper]

Blend, on 01 May 2018 - 01:26 PM, said:

Seriously though, all my votes are going for AGAINST plowshares. You can bank on that.

If you want to waste the votes to get rid of a measly 1 infantry, I highly encourage you to do so! I can always use the extra TG, and, frankly, I have other contingencies, not to mention Plowshares will most likely just undo your work anyway. I'm certainly not going to pay you to not do something that doesn't really affect me negatively.

Oh, I am aware that the Plowshares is making this an unlikely play - unless everyone does a Twelve and assumes someone else will stop it, in which case, it becomes unsure which way the whole structure topples - but since you, Tatts and Gnaw seem vehemently anti-Plowshares, the against vote seems almost a certainty.

Like I said, my whole suggestion is/was shenanigans for the sake of shenanigans, rather than a serious kidnapping.
After all, if everyone who does not spend all their votes on Plowshares votes their own way on Disarmament, the player with the most votes (Twelve) will win it, end of story, and everyone else just stands by and lets it happen. Boooooring.
Not to mention Twelve is also the guy who will get the largest haul out of winning the Disarmament directive if he targets his own planet (although he has to pass a TG to Nico).

[Khellendros]

Yes, I think this move is more attractive if advertised as a way to stop twelve getting a load of TGs, rather than doing something negative to Blend.

[Tapper]

twelve, on 01 May 2018 - 01:37 PM, said:

Tapper, on 01 May 2018 - 07:29 AM, said:

twelve, on 01 May 2018 - 01:49 AM, said:

Of the 2 I actually would like the plows hares to pass but since so many are against I'm abstaining. As for the disarement I placed my votes already

I must say, I like how you admit you bank on others doing their "civic duty" and vote the way you expect them to, while you freely vote where your profit lies.
Not sure if admitting that on thread was the very best way to handle it, though, because, as the Oracle Kkanye says:

Man, it is so hard not to act reckless
To whom much is given much is tested

And like any Oracle, many meanings can be found, but this is how the High Leader Kkim sees it:

On the one hand, it means that the Hacan's abilities bring them great riches and the opportunity to flog Speaker tokens, PNs and promises all over the board.
On the other hand, it means they are uniquely suited to be held ransom on issues like this, especially when they present a weakness and have money in their coffers.

And a weakness Hacan has: the removal of their Infantry at Thibah would cost them a turn before they can colonize Lodor.
As such, the Space Kitties have a stake in avoiding this particular scenario.

I am looking for (at the least) two other players willing to vote for Thibah, with 8 votes each.
Of course, no donkey walks when threatened with the stick: there should always be a carrot.

As such, the deal we offer Blend is the following: if Blend pays us a TG or PN each, we do not vote Thibah, but instead we vote whichever planet Twelve wants us to vote. From the profits, Twelve can (choose to) compensate Blend.
So, anyone else willing to commit at the least 8 votes on Thibah for the Compensated Disarmament?

Blend

Sounds like Tapper is trying to extort you.I have a vested interest in keeping him on the other side of the wormhole as well.we can stack our votes to avoid this.

Who mentions anything about coming out of the wormhole? Not me. I have done my very best to mention why I have no vested interests in doing that. Let me do it again:

Last I checked, Blend has 2 Cruisers in Lodor. Your PDS on Zohbat covers Lodor as well.
Essentially, even if I would capture Lodor, I would lose a TG a turn to Nico plus would have to replace roughly a ship a turn to PDS-pot shots. Not what I call a sound investment.

Where I am on Mallice, I can open trade with Khell (and Tatts, once he researches the Wormhole Generator) and with whomever holds Lodor (less of a concern, since Blend can trade with anyone, anyway).
The extra opening to get PN and TGs from trade with players other than Gnaw and Morgoth is worth moving to Mallice. I stand to gain nothing like that by moving on Lodor without an invitation to do so.

So, essentially, I have vast interests in staying put in Mallice.

[Gnaw]

Tapper, on 01 May 2018 - 08:54 AM, said:

Tattersail_, on 01 May 2018 - 08:11 AM, said:

Am I missing something Tapper? You are talking to Twelve about Blend.

I don't think you get what I try to say. I am seizing Twelve's post to make an argument.
He is voting with up to 14 votes on his own planet, purely benefitting himself - because he reasons he has the most votes on Compensated Disarmament (14) and thus will get his way and receive a nice payday for all the Infantry he placed with his tech for free.
I set out an alternative that would hinder Blend, who has TG and who can give them away (basically an extortion).
For that to be a credible threat, I need more votes than Twelve's votes + Blend's votes.

Basically, the scheme consists of this:

1) if I can get a combined total of 22+ votes of people willing to vote for Thibah, Blend would lose a significant amount of tempo and the compensation would be a paltry 1 TG.
2a) Blend has money and can pay us to NOT do that.
2b) On top of that, if Blend will pay, we offer those votes unconditionally to Twelve - making Blend's monetary loss Twelve's monetary gain (and remember, if Blend does not pay, the votes are enough to make sure Twelve will also not see a penny).
3) It then becomes logical that the two of them negotiate to share the profit that Twelve makes out of Compensated Disarmament (or not, in which case, their little friendship might suffer).

Oh. I likes the way you think.
Can we be friends forever? Cause you’re the scary neighbor next door.

[twelve]

Tapper, on 01 May 2018 - 08:54 AM, said:

Tattersail_, on 01 May 2018 - 08:11 AM, said:

Am I missing something Tapper? You are talking to Twelve about Blend.

I don't think you get what I try to say. I am seizing Twelve's post to make an argument.
He is voting with up to 14 votes on his own planet, purely benefitting himself - because he reasons he has the most votes on Compensated Disarmament (14) and thus will get his way and receive a nice payday for all the Infantry he placed with his tech for free.
I set out an alternative that would hinder Blend, who has TG and who can give them away (basically an extortion).
For that to be a credible threat, I need more votes than Twelve's votes + Blend's votes.

Basically, the scheme consists of this:

1) if I can get a combined total of 22+ votes of people willing to vote for Thibah, Blend would lose a significant amount of tempo and the compensation would be a paltry 1 TG.
2a) Blend has money and can pay us to NOT do that.
2b) On top of that, if Blend will pay, we offer those votes unconditionally to Twelve - making Blend's monetary loss Twelve's monetary gain (and remember, if Blend does not pay, the votes are enough to make sure Twelve will also not see a penny).
3) It then becomes logical that the two of them negotiate to share the profit that Twelve makes out of Compensated Disarmament (or not, in which case, their little friendship might suffer).

Tapper I actually want the plowshares to pass. I want less troops all across the board but with so many expressing they are against it and my unwillingness to bribe people to vote my way the only option I had was to try and serve my own self interest. Are there anyone else that would like to see less troops across the board? I'm willing to put my votes to passing plowshares if there are anyone else interested in seeing it pass? If that is the case I'm willing to place votes on compensated as long it's not one of my own planets at that point.

[Tattersail_]

D'rek has Nico shown me a PN?

[D'rek]

Tattersail_, on 01 May 2018 - 02:13 PM, said:

D'rek has Nico shown me a PN?

He hasn't asked me to, nope.

[Tattersail_]

Nicodimas, on 01 May 2018 - 12:54 AM, said:

I guess I forgot to do this over here.

Shows tatts PN.

[twelve]

Tapper, on 01 May 2018 - 01:46 PM, said:

Blend, on 01 May 2018 - 01:26 PM, said:

Seriously though, all my votes are going for AGAINST plowshares. You can bank on that.

If you want to waste the votes to get rid of a measly 1 infantry, I highly encourage you to do so! I can always use the extra TG, and, frankly, I have other contingencies, not to mention Plowshares will most likely just undo your work anyway. I'm certainly not going to pay you to not do something that doesn't really affect me negatively.

Oh, I am aware that the Plowshares is making this an unlikely play - unless everyone does a Twelve and assumes someone else will stop it, in which case, it becomes unsure which way the whole structure topples - but since you, Tatts and Gnaw seem vehemently anti-Plowshares, the against vote seems almost a certainty.

Like I said, my whole suggestion is/was shenanigans for the sake of shenanigans, rather than a serious kidnapping.
After all, if everyone who does not spend all their votes on Plowshares votes their own way on Disarmament, the player with the most votes (Twelve) will win it, end of story, and everyone else just stands by and lets it happen. Boooooring.
Not to mention Twelve is also the guy who will get the largest haul out of winning the Disarmament directive if he targets his own planet (although he has to pass a TG to Nico).

Do I have to pass to nico? It's a directive not a transaction.

[Gnaw]

I need to see a new map before I fully decide what to do.

[D'rek]

twelve, on 01 May 2018 - 02:30 PM, said:

Tapper, on 01 May 2018 - 01:46 PM, said:

Blend, on 01 May 2018 - 01:26 PM, said:

Seriously though, all my votes are going for AGAINST plowshares. You can bank on that.

If you want to waste the votes to get rid of a measly 1 infantry, I highly encourage you to do so! I can always use the extra TG, and, frankly, I have other contingencies, not to mention Plowshares will most likely just undo your work anyway. I'm certainly not going to pay you to not do something that doesn't really affect me negatively.

Oh, I am aware that the Plowshares is making this an unlikely play - unless everyone does a Twelve and assumes someone else will stop it, in which case, it becomes unsure which way the whole structure topples - but since you, Tatts and Gnaw seem vehemently anti-Plowshares, the against vote seems almost a certainty.

Like I said, my whole suggestion is/was shenanigans for the sake of shenanigans, rather than a serious kidnapping.
After all, if everyone who does not spend all their votes on Plowshares votes their own way on Disarmament, the player with the most votes (Twelve) will win it, end of story, and everyone else just stands by and lets it happen. Boooooring.
Not to mention Twelve is also the guy who will get the largest haul out of winning the Disarmament directive if he targets his own planet (although he has to pass a TG to Nico).

Do I have to pass to nico? It's a directive not a transaction.

"After one of your neighbours gains trade goods or resolves a transaction..."

So yes. Though Nico doesn't *have* to pillage from you - he can choose not to.

[twelve]

Well I can't get fully caught up. Have a crazy busy day at work today so wont be able to oarticipate more. I really enjoyed Tappers shenanigans. I would really like to get plows hares to pass. Tapper with your 12 and my 14 if you can get anyone else on board I'd be willing to switch my voting power in that dirrection.

[D'rek]

Gnaw, on 01 May 2018 - 02:33 PM, said:

I need to see a new map before I fully decide what to do.

I'll post a new one after Khell passes. Not much point in doing one now when Khell might do an orbital drop and I have to make yet another map with just that tiny change for the start of status phase.

[Gnaw]

Practical

[D'rek]

Or just lazy

[Tapper]

twelve, on 01 May 2018 - 02:13 PM, said:

Tapper, on 01 May 2018 - 08:54 AM, said:

Tattersail_, on 01 May 2018 - 08:11 AM, said:

Am I missing something Tapper? You are talking to Twelve about Blend.

I don't think you get what I try to say. I am seizing Twelve's post to make an argument.
He is voting with up to 14 votes on his own planet, purely benefitting himself - because he reasons he has the most votes on Compensated Disarmament (14) and thus will get his way and receive a nice payday for all the Infantry he placed with his tech for free.
I set out an alternative that would hinder Blend, who has TG and who can give them away (basically an extortion).
For that to be a credible threat, I need more votes than Twelve's votes + Blend's votes.

Basically, the scheme consists of this:

1) if I can get a combined total of 22+ votes of people willing to vote for Thibah, Blend would lose a significant amount of tempo and the compensation would be a paltry 1 TG.
2a) Blend has money and can pay us to NOT do that.
2b) On top of that, if Blend will pay, we offer those votes unconditionally to Twelve - making Blend's monetary loss Twelve's monetary gain (and remember, if Blend does not pay, the votes are enough to make sure Twelve will also not see a penny).
3) It then becomes logical that the two of them negotiate to share the profit that Twelve makes out of Compensated Disarmament (or not, in which case, their little friendship might suffer).

Tapper I actually want the plowshares to pass. I want less troops all across the board but with so many expressing they are against it and my unwillingness to bribe people to vote my way the only option I had was to try and serve my own self interest. Are there anyone else that would like to see less troops across the board? I'm willing to put my votes to passing plowshares if there are anyone else interested in seeing it pass? If that is the case I'm willing to place votes on compensated as long it's not one of my own planets at that point.

I have very little preference either way. The TGs I'd get from For Swords to Plowshares would make my life easier in some ways, while having extra Infantry (from the Against) where I already have a Carrier would also benefit me.
If I were looking towards what would be the biggest game changer, it would be the Plowshares, as many more seem determined to oppose it.

[twelve]

Nico. If plows hares passes think of how many people you get to steal from since you now border so many races now.