[Tattersail_]

Nicodimas, on 01 May 2018 - 08:25 AM, said:

Yell at me tatts if your good for that deal of PN...

Otherwise on the vote I have lil sway so

Will find out what ya all are doing in the morning.

I haven't seen it yet. I'm sure it'll be okay

[Khellendros]

Tapper, on 01 May 2018 - 07:29 AM, said:

twelve, on 01 May 2018 - 01:49 AM, said:

Of the 2 I actually would like the plows hares to pass but since so many are against I'm abstaining. As for the disarement I placed my votes already

I must say, I like how you admit you bank on others doing their "civic duty" and vote the way you expect them to, while you freely vote where your profit lies.
Not sure if admitting that on thread was the very best way to handle it, though, because, as the Oracle Kkanye says:

Man, it is so hard not to act reckless
To whom much is given much is tested

And like any Oracle, many meanings can be found, but this is how the High Leader Kkim sees it:

On the one hand, it means that the Hacan's abilities bring them great riches and the opportunity to flog Speaker tokens, PNs and promises all over the board.
On the other hand, it means they are uniquely suited to be held ransom on issues like this, especially when they present a weakness and have money in their coffers.

And a weakness Hacan has: the removal of their Infantry at Thibah would cost them a turn before they can colonize Lodor.
As such, the Space Kitties have a stake in avoiding this particular scenario.

I am looking for (at the least) two other players willing to vote for Thibah, with 8 votes each.
Of course, no donkey walks when threatened with the stick: there should always be a carrot.

As such, the deal we offer Blend is the following: if Blend pays us a TG or PN each, we do not vote Thibah, but instead we vote whichever planet Twelve wants us to vote. From the profits, Twelve can (choose to) compensate Blend.
So, anyone else willing to commit at the least 8 votes on Thibah for the Compensated Disarmament?

I might be willing to vote for this, in exchange for a gentleman's agreement of peace between our two races next round.

[Tapper]

Tattersail_, on 01 May 2018 - 08:11 AM, said:

Am I missing something Tapper? You are talking to Twelve about Blend.

I don't think you get what I try to say. I am seizing Twelve's post to make an argument.
He is voting with up to 14 votes on his own planet, purely benefitting himself - because he reasons he has the most votes on Compensated Disarmament (14) and thus will get his way and receive a nice payday for all the Infantry he placed with his tech for free.
I set out an alternative that would hinder Blend, who has TG and who can give them away (basically an extortion).
For that to be a credible threat, I need more votes than Twelve's votes + Blend's votes.

Basically, the scheme consists of this:

1) if I can get a combined total of 22+ votes of people willing to vote for Thibah, Blend would lose a significant amount of tempo and the compensation would be a paltry 1 TG.
2a) Blend has money and can pay us to NOT do that.
2b) On top of that, if Blend will pay, we offer those votes unconditionally to Twelve - making Blend's monetary loss Twelve's monetary gain (and remember, if Blend does not pay, the votes are enough to make sure Twelve will also not see a penny).
3) It then becomes logical that the two of them negotiate to share the profit that Twelve makes out of Compensated Disarmament (or not, in which case, their little friendship might suffer).

This post has been edited by Tapper: 01 May 2018 - 08:54 AM

[Tapper]

Khellendros, on 01 May 2018 - 08:51 AM, said:

Tapper, on 01 May 2018 - 07:29 AM, said:

twelve, on 01 May 2018 - 01:49 AM, said:

Of the 2 I actually would like the plows hares to pass but since so many are against I'm abstaining. As for the disarement I placed my votes already

I must say, I like how you admit you bank on others doing their "civic duty" and vote the way you expect them to, while you freely vote where your profit lies.
Not sure if admitting that on thread was the very best way to handle it, though, because, as the Oracle Kkanye says:

Man, it is so hard not to act reckless
To whom much is given much is tested

And like any Oracle, many meanings can be found, but this is how the High Leader Kkim sees it:

On the one hand, it means that the Hacan's abilities bring them great riches and the opportunity to flog Speaker tokens, PNs and promises all over the board.
On the other hand, it means they are uniquely suited to be held ransom on issues like this, especially when they present a weakness and have money in their coffers.

And a weakness Hacan has: the removal of their Infantry at Thibah would cost them a turn before they can colonize Lodor.
As such, the Space Kitties have a stake in avoiding this particular scenario.

I am looking for (at the least) two other players willing to vote for Thibah, with 8 votes each.
Of course, no donkey walks when threatened with the stick: there should always be a carrot.

As such, the deal we offer Blend is the following: if Blend pays us a TG or PN each, we do not vote Thibah, but instead we vote whichever planet Twelve wants us to vote. From the profits, Twelve can (choose to) compensate Blend.
So, anyone else willing to commit at the least 8 votes on Thibah for the Compensated Disarmament?

I might be willing to vote for this, in exchange for a gentleman's agreement of peace between our two races next round.

Such an agreement would benefit us both.

[Tattersail_]

Tapper, on 01 May 2018 - 08:54 AM, said:

Tattersail_, on 01 May 2018 - 08:11 AM, said:

Am I missing something Tapper? You are talking to Twelve about Blend.

I don't think you get what I try to say. I am seizing Twelve's post to make an argument.
He is voting with up to 14 votes on his own planet, purely benefitting himself - because he reasons he has the most votes on Compensated Disarmament (14) and thus will get his way and receive a nice payday for all the Infantry he placed with his tech for free.
I set out an alternative that would hinder Blend, who has TG and who can give them away (basically an extortion).
For that to be a credible threat, I need more votes than Twelve's votes + Blend's votes.

Basically, the scheme consists of this:

1) if I can get a combined total of 22+ votes of people willing to vote for Thibah, Blend would lose a significant amount of tempo and the compensation would be a paltry 1 TG.
2a) Blend has money and can pay us to NOT do that.
2b) On top of that, if Blend will pay, we offer those votes unconditionally to Twelve - making Blend's monetary loss Twelve's monetary gain (and remember, if Blend does not pay, the votes are enough to make sure Twelve will also not see a penny).
3) It then becomes logical that the two of them negotiate to share the profit that Twelve makes out of Compensated Disarmament (or not, in which case, their little friendship might suffer).

If we destroyed Blend's infantry on Thibah, he would gain one on the next agenda if we vote against. He would see that too.

[Imperial Historian]

Just so we are clear on the consequences of swords into ploughshares, it would mean that every planet with one infantry on it would then have 0 infantry on it if it passed, so Tatt's it would mean you have 0 infantry.

I'd be willing to throw some votes at compensated disarmament on mecatol rex which would make it a pretty tempting target if anyone was interested. Nico?

[Khellendros]

Tattersail_, on 01 May 2018 - 09:26 AM, said:

Tapper, on 01 May 2018 - 08:54 AM, said:

Tattersail_, on 01 May 2018 - 08:11 AM, said:

Am I missing something Tapper? You are talking to Twelve about Blend.

I don't think you get what I try to say. I am seizing Twelve's post to make an argument.
He is voting with up to 14 votes on his own planet, purely benefitting himself - because he reasons he has the most votes on Compensated Disarmament (14) and thus will get his way and receive a nice payday for all the Infantry he placed with his tech for free.
I set out an alternative that would hinder Blend, who has TG and who can give them away (basically an extortion).
For that to be a credible threat, I need more votes than Twelve's votes + Blend's votes.

Basically, the scheme consists of this:

1) if I can get a combined total of 22+ votes of people willing to vote for Thibah, Blend would lose a significant amount of tempo and the compensation would be a paltry 1 TG.
2a) Blend has money and can pay us to NOT do that.
2b) On top of that, if Blend will pay, we offer those votes unconditionally to Twelve - making Blend's monetary loss Twelve's monetary gain (and remember, if Blend does not pay, the votes are enough to make sure Twelve will also not see a penny).
3) It then becomes logical that the two of them negotiate to share the profit that Twelve makes out of Compensated Disarmament (or not, in which case, their little friendship might suffer).

If we destroyed Blend's infantry on Thibah, he would gain one on the next agenda if we vote against. He would see that too.

That's true. Unless twelve gives up on the first agenda and throws his considerable influence behind voting FOR the second agenda, as he said he would prefer to do (but most of the rest would not - however, if we use up all our influence on the first, then there might be little we can do to stop him).

[Tapper]

Tattersail_, on 01 May 2018 - 09:26 AM, said:

Tapper, on 01 May 2018 - 08:54 AM, said:

Tattersail_, on 01 May 2018 - 08:11 AM, said:

Am I missing something Tapper? You are talking to Twelve about Blend.

I don't think you get what I try to say. I am seizing Twelve's post to make an argument.
He is voting with up to 14 votes on his own planet, purely benefitting himself - because he reasons he has the most votes on Compensated Disarmament (14) and thus will get his way and receive a nice payday for all the Infantry he placed with his tech for free.
I set out an alternative that would hinder Blend, who has TG and who can give them away (basically an extortion).
For that to be a credible threat, I need more votes than Twelve's votes + Blend's votes.

Basically, the scheme consists of this:

1) if I can get a combined total of 22+ votes of people willing to vote for Thibah, Blend would lose a significant amount of tempo and the compensation would be a paltry 1 TG.
2a) Blend has money and can pay us to NOT do that.
2b) On top of that, if Blend will pay, we offer those votes unconditionally to Twelve - making Blend's monetary loss Twelve's monetary gain (and remember, if Blend does not pay, the votes are enough to make sure Twelve will also not see a penny).
3) It then becomes logical that the two of them negotiate to share the profit that Twelve makes out of Compensated Disarmament (or not, in which case, their little friendship might suffer).

If we destroyed Blend's infantry on Thibah, he would gain one on the next agenda if we vote against. He would see that too.

Which is exactly why I am looking for multiple players for 6-8 votes each, instead of just one other player for all their votes on Compensated Disarmament.
The threat has to be credible that leftover votes would be enough to also sway Swords and Plowshares.

EDIT: I have 12 votes, for example - so I'd 4 left to vote on Swords to Plowshares.

This post has been edited by Tapper: 01 May 2018 - 09:37 AM

[Tattersail_]

Swords to Plowshares is more important to me to vote against. As IH has mentioned up above.

[Khellendros]

If I put 8 into disarmament, I'd have up to 4 (depending on what else I decide to do this round - yes I know it's my turn, when I get to a computer I will post) left to vote for the second agenda.


Edit: Tatts' point remains, however, that the threat to Blend is not credible in the scenario of Thibah and Against, because he would get one infantry back and not lose tempo.


Edit edit: Unless of course Blend hopes to end the round with two infantry on there, and not just one.

This post has been edited by Khellendros: 01 May 2018 - 09:59 AM

[Khellendros]

Morgoth, on 01 May 2018 - 07:15 AM, said:

Sure Khel, what do you want for it?

What do you want to offer? Don't think we should bother with trade agreements, as I'm unlikely to be able to give you many/any goods. I don't particularly want all that much for the PN materially-speaking, I'm thinking probably more in terms of coordinating so we don't get in each other's way if at all possible.


By the way, seeing as you can't vote in the agenda phase, what is it that the Nekro do with all their influence?

[Morgoth]

Khellendros, on 01 May 2018 - 11:42 AM, said:

Morgoth, on 01 May 2018 - 07:15 AM, said:

Sure Khel, what do you want for it?

What do you want to offer? Don't think we should bother with trade agreements, as I'm unlikely to be able to give you many/any goods. I don't particularly want all that much for the PN materially-speaking, I'm thinking probably more in terms of coordinating so we don't get in each other's way if at all possible.


By the way, seeing as you can't vote in the agenda phase, what is it that the Nekro do with all their influence?

Yeah, that's something I can agree to. And nothing much unfortunately. Influence has very little use for me other than for tokens.

[Khellendros]

Morgoth, on 01 May 2018 - 11:50 AM, said:

Khellendros, on 01 May 2018 - 11:42 AM, said:

Morgoth, on 01 May 2018 - 07:15 AM, said:

Sure Khel, what do you want for it?

What do you want to offer? Don't think we should bother with trade agreements, as I'm unlikely to be able to give you many/any goods. I don't particularly want all that much for the PN materially-speaking, I'm thinking probably more in terms of coordinating so we don't get in each other's way if at all possible.


By the way, seeing as you can't vote in the agenda phase, what is it that the Nekro do with all their influence?

Yeah, that's something I can agree to. And nothing much unfortunately. Influence has very little use for me other than for tokens.

Coolsville. If we're agreed, then I'll trade you the PN on my go now, and we can sort out coordination as and when it becomes necessary.

[Morgoth]

Khellendros, on 01 May 2018 - 11:54 AM, said:

Morgoth, on 01 May 2018 - 11:50 AM, said:

Khellendros, on 01 May 2018 - 11:42 AM, said:

Morgoth, on 01 May 2018 - 07:15 AM, said:

Sure Khel, what do you want for it?

What do you want to offer? Don't think we should bother with trade agreements, as I'm unlikely to be able to give you many/any goods. I don't particularly want all that much for the PN materially-speaking, I'm thinking probably more in terms of coordinating so we don't get in each other's way if at all possible.


By the way, seeing as you can't vote in the agenda phase, what is it that the Nekro do with all their influence?

Yeah, that's something I can agree to. And nothing much unfortunately. Influence has very little use for me other than for tokens.

Coolsville. If we're agreed, then I'll trade you the PN on my go now, and we can sort out coordination as and when it becomes necessary.

Let us press our lubricated orifices together in agreement

[Blend]

Tapper, on 01 May 2018 - 07:29 AM, said:

twelve, on 01 May 2018 - 01:49 AM, said:

Of the 2 I actually would like the plows hares to pass but since so many are against I'm abstaining. As for the disarement I placed my votes already

I must say, I like how you admit you bank on others doing their "civic duty" and vote the way you expect them to, while you freely vote where your profit lies.
Not sure if admitting that on thread was the very best way to handle it, though, because, as the Oracle Kkanye says:

Man, it is so hard not to act reckless
To whom much is given much is tested

And like any Oracle, many meanings can be found, but this is how the High Leader Kkim sees it:

On the one hand, it means that the Hacan's abilities bring them great riches and the opportunity to flog Speaker tokens, PNs and promises all over the board.
On the other hand, it means they are uniquely suited to be held ransom on issues like this, especially when they present a weakness and have money in their coffers.

And a weakness Hacan has: the removal of their Infantry at Thibah would cost them a turn before they can colonize Lodor.
As such, the Space Kitties have a stake in avoiding this particular scenario.

I am looking for (at the least) two other players willing to vote for Thibah, with 8 votes each.
Of course, no donkey walks when threatened with the stick: there should always be a carrot.

As such, the deal we offer Blend is the following: if Blend pays us a TG or PN each, we do not vote Thibah, but instead we vote whichever planet Twelve wants us to vote. From the profits, Twelve can (choose to) compensate Blend.
So, anyone else willing to commit at the least 8 votes on Thibah for the Compensated Disarmament?

The Hacan will not be held hostage by your admittedly not very scary threats. Go ahead, take that Infantry, waste your votes!

[Imperial Historian]

I think Itwaesgnaw has to pass as he's used all his tacticals so it's back to you Khell.

[Khellendros]

Imperial Historian, on 01 May 2018 - 12:39 PM, said:

I think Itwaesgnaw has to pass as he's used all his tacticals so it's back to you Khell.

Am I the only one who hasn't passed?

[Tapper]

Blend, on 01 May 2018 - 12:10 PM, said:

Tapper, on 01 May 2018 - 07:29 AM, said:

twelve, on 01 May 2018 - 01:49 AM, said:

Of the 2 I actually would like the plows hares to pass but since so many are against I'm abstaining. As for the disarement I placed my votes already

I must say, I like how you admit you bank on others doing their "civic duty" and vote the way you expect them to, while you freely vote where your profit lies.
Not sure if admitting that on thread was the very best way to handle it, though, because, as the Oracle Kkanye says:

Man, it is so hard not to act reckless
To whom much is given much is tested

And like any Oracle, many meanings can be found, but this is how the High Leader Kkim sees it:

On the one hand, it means that the Hacan's abilities bring them great riches and the opportunity to flog Speaker tokens, PNs and promises all over the board.
On the other hand, it means they are uniquely suited to be held ransom on issues like this, especially when they present a weakness and have money in their coffers.

And a weakness Hacan has: the removal of their Infantry at Thibah would cost them a turn before they can colonize Lodor.
As such, the Space Kitties have a stake in avoiding this particular scenario.

I am looking for (at the least) two other players willing to vote for Thibah, with 8 votes each.
Of course, no donkey walks when threatened with the stick: there should always be a carrot.

As such, the deal we offer Blend is the following: if Blend pays us a TG or PN each, we do not vote Thibah, but instead we vote whichever planet Twelve wants us to vote. From the profits, Twelve can (choose to) compensate Blend.
So, anyone else willing to commit at the least 8 votes on Thibah for the Compensated Disarmament?

The Hacan will not be held hostage by your admittedly not very scary threats. Go ahead, take that Infantry, waste your votes!

Oh, boohoo There is, in either case, no productive use of votes for the vast majority of us - so I wanted to try something fun.

Because, with the first agenda: either someone gets rich or someone gets shafted (if we choose Mecatol, for example).
My whole reason for these shenanigans are that I'd prefer to increase the standard of living of as many as possible of us over making one person much richer without much change to the status quo. Call me a communist (or more accurately, a well-to-do person who is in favor of a little more, but not total, economic egality).

With the second agenda: either we all get extra Infantry and the balance of power still doesn't significantly change, or we all lose quite a few Infantry and get rich from it, with the caveat that those who have lots of ground troops in backwaters that they don't feel they need to replace, are really the ones to profit.

[Blend]

Seriously though, all my votes are going for AGAINST plowshares. You can bank on that.

If you want to waste the votes to get rid of a measly 1 infantry, I highly encourage you to do so! I can always use the extra TG, and, frankly, I have other contingencies, not to mention Plowshares will most likely just undo your work anyway. I'm certainly not going to pay you to not do something that doesn't really affect me negatively.

[D'rek]

Imperial Historian, on 01 May 2018 - 12:39 PM, said:

I think Itwaesgnaw has to pass as he's used all his tacticals so it's back to you Khell.

Khellendros, on 01 May 2018 - 12:48 PM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 01 May 2018 - 12:39 PM, said:

I think Itwaesgnaw has to pass as he's used all his tacticals so it's back to you Khell.

Am I the only one who hasn't passed?

ItGnaws could still do a component action, if they have one available. Either way it is their turn to pass or take an action. Then it's Khell.