[Tattersail_]

Twelve looking at the map that planetary system that Khell has mentioned is one of the only ones available to you.

If you move into that this turn then I have a Promissary note that may help you out going forward and looking at the board as a whole you'd benefit most from it.

What promissory notes do you have that can benefit me? If you want to exchange them and put me as one of the people who can use your secondary for free I'd be very grateful.

[D'rek]

Tatts is showing Twelve a promissory note

[Imperial Historian]

Thanks for that analysis tapper I had completely misunderstood how this game works and now realise I probably won't be able to do most of what I wanted to. Ah well should have read the rules more closely.

Anyhow...

Ummmm anyone want to trade?

Blend I'll probably be occupying the two planet system next to you so could feasibly trade with you?

I'm also planning to move to sylvan so would happily trade with anyone neighbouring said system.

Also since it doesn't particularly matter to me when I play warfare I'm open to agreements on when to play it.

[Tapper]

Tattersail_, on 16 April 2018 - 11:07 AM, said:

You took leadership didn't you? So you get 3 more tokens than the rest of us.

Once I pop it, yes, but the question is how I am best serves. And others can use the Secondary to flip Influence and Trade Goods for tokens, too.

Quote

What would happen if Twelve pops trade, IH pops Warfare and Khell pops Tech all in the same round? Would you be able to pick up any of them or just one?

Everyone would be able to activate a maximum number of these Secondaries equal to the number of CTs they have in their Strategic Pool (that's currently 2 for each of us).

Quote

Quote

Timing of Diplomacy
For Tatts (who refreshes a system, not planets: as such, it doesn't really matter if he picks Creuss or Star Point-New Albion, both give him 4 production and 2 influence) the preferred order is either Diplomacy --> Warfare for 8 resources to build with in Creuss (that build would likely include at the least a second Carrier that can then still move), or Technology/Warfare --> Diplomacy --> Warfare/Technology, using 4 production for a tech, refreshing a system and also spending 4 points to build with: a Carrier and maybe 2 Fighters?

regardless if I use Diplomacy next turn or at the end of the round I will have 8 resources to work with, it won't go up or down because that is the max I have in a system. I'm not sure both resource and influence get filled though. Say I refreshed Starpoint/New Albion, I only get to choose between resources/influence or green tech.

Well... You will have 8 resources to work with after you pop Diplomacy if you didn't spend the resources of Creuss on something else.
If (say) IH pops Warfare before you pop Diplomacy, you will have 4 resources available for Warfare. If you use those, then you will have (at maximum) 4 available again after you pop Diplomacy.
With regards to your second part: as I understood: when you refresh a planet, you turn its card face-up. Since the system of Starpoint-New Albion actually contains two planets, you would turn both face up, and could then flip New Albion for Green tech and Star Point for 3 resources, or Star Point for 3 resources and New Albion for 1 Influence, or both of them for 1 Influence each.

Quote

Quote

Basically, Tatts (and most of us) benefit the least if Technology and Warfare are played in the same round, and Diplomacy only in the round after that: he wants to use Diplomacy in between the other two. Trade being activated before Technology can possibly mitigate this, but it's a big maybe.

How does trade affect anything here? Replenish commodities are not your resources or influence, they are useless to you unless traded away but that still shouldn't affect diplomacy.

Once commodities are refreshed they can be traded to become Trade Goods, and it is Trade Goods that are worth resources or influence.
What I meant was, if Warfare and Technology are both activated before Diplomacy, some of us could perhaps build from Trade Goods (but you'd need quite a few to make it worthwhile spending a command token), while paying the 4 resources required for Secondary of Technology from our home systems.
Twelve (who gets 3 Trade Goods from the Trade SC) and Blend (who can trade with anyone) are the most likely ones to be able to do this.

[Tapper]

Imperial Historian, on 16 April 2018 - 12:25 PM, said:

Thanks for that analysis tapper I had completely misunderstood how this game works and now realise I probably won't be able to do most of what I wanted to. Ah well should have read the rules more closely.

Anyhow...

Ummmm anyone want to trade?

Blend I'll probably be occupying the two planet system next to you so could feasibly trade with you?

I'm also planning to move to sylvan so would happily trade with anyone neighbouring said system.

Also since it doesn't particularly matter to me when I play warfare I'm open to agreements on when to play it.

Well, only thank me if Morgoth, Nico or D'rek say my reasoning is mostly sound. I am as new to this game as you are

[D'rek]

Tapper's reasoning is sound

[twelve]

Tapper, on 16 April 2018 - 10:30 AM, said:

I already love this game. I am not sure my wife thinks it's a good thing that I am loving this game, though.

Head spinning...need to look at all these secondary abilities you are talking about again especially warfare and dip.

[Blend]

Imperial Historian, on 16 April 2018 - 12:25 PM, said:

Thanks for that analysis tapper I had completely misunderstood how this game works and now realise I probably won't be able to do most of what I wanted to. Ah well should have read the rules more closely.

Anyhow...

Ummmm anyone want to trade?

Blend I'll probably be occupying the two planet system next to you so could feasibly trade with you?

I'm also planning to move to sylvan so would happily trade with anyone neighbouring said system.

Also since it doesn't particularly matter to me when I play warfare I'm open to agreements on when to play it.

I don't need to be neighbours to trade, I could trade right now if I wanted to and had stuff to trade with you!

I'm having a look at everything now, will have something submitted to D'rek soon!

That being said, let it be known that I'm willing to give the Speaker ship to whoever wants to give me the most money!

Want to go first next game round? Give me your commodities!

[Gnaw]

Tapper, on 16 April 2018 - 10:27 AM, said:

twelve, on 16 April 2018 - 07:14 AM, said:

I think I need to rethink my strategy for this rouND now

I had the same sinking feeling earlier on when I started thinking what I want to do, versus what I can afford.

With regard to building (I assume you want some Infantry to at the least claim both of your adjacent systems fully?): don't forget that the Second of Warfare allows you to build without activating your home system (and the token for it comes from your Strategy pool, though). Also, the Second of Diplomacy will at some point allow you to refresh 2 exhausted planets (whether your home system or colonized planets). Neither will remove Command Tokens, though.
The question is what order these cards will be played in.


I might be totally off (which would be a lot of fun), but:

Timing of Warfare
IH won't get the Warfare secondary, so he couldn't care less when it is activated for the purpose of building.
What he does care about, is that Warfare is a set-up action (+1 movement), so he needs at the least 1 Tactical CT available after playing it - with 3 Tactical CTs in his pool, this means at the latest when he has 1 left.
He also has 2 Carriers, so he's likely looking at Move ships --> use Warfare on Carrier --> Move ships or use Warfare on Carrier --> Move ships --> Move ships

If he wants to research, he also needs to have CT for that, and either have
a) Trade played (but not Diplomacy) and at the least 1 Trade Good (as his home system has only 3 production),
or have colonized a planet with 1 production and have Diplomacy played before Technology is activated.
If he wants to build (perhaps in addition to research, perhaps foregoing research) it means he needs to move all the ships out of his home system before he can activate it for the build, which means using Warfare and its move before activating the HS.
If he does not want to research but plans a build, then he might still want to have a system (Gwynan?) colonized before Diplomacy hits.

Timing of Diplomacy
For Tatts (who refreshes a system, not planets: as such, it doesn't really matter if he picks Creuss or Star Point-New Albion, both give him 4 production and 2 influence) the preferred order is either Diplomacy --> Warfare for 8 resources to build with in Creuss (that build would likely include at the least a second Carrier that can then still move), or Technology/Warfare --> Diplomacy --> Warfare/Technology, using 4 production for a tech, refreshing a system and also spending 4 points to build with: a Carrier and maybe 2 Fighters?
Basically, Tatts (and most of us) benefit the least if Technology and Warfare are played in the same round, and Diplomacy only in the round after that: he wants to use Diplomacy in between the other two. Trade being activated before Technology can possibly mitigate this, but it's a big maybe.

Timing of Research
Khell has the luxury of being able to see what IH does with Warfare before making his decision.
If Warfare is played immediately, he could use the Secondary of Warfare, then play Technology immediately. Everyone else (except you, as you use the Primary of Technology), would have to choose if we want to pay with production for the secondary of Warfare or the secondary of Technology, because the Secondary of Diplomacy would arrive after these.
In addition, if Trade is activated before Technology, Khell might (with 2 Trade Goods) even get 2 researches from the Primary, but he'd have to forego Warfare then.
Alternatively he can opt to use the Secondary of Warfare and play a Tactical first in order to colonize a planet on his first action, so that he has 2 planets to then refresh with Diplomacy, one of which is his home planet, after which he can probably still afford 2 technologies.

If Warfare is not played but Trade is played and he has 2 TG, he can gamble that Diplomacy will be used by Tatts to be able to profit from both Technology and Warfare, so he can play Technology and use his Home system and 2 TGs for 2 Technologies, then refresh through the Secondary of Diplomacy to allow him (and everyone else) to also use Warfare.

Fuck me.
Vote Tapper for Emperor
Can we play eclipse now?

[Tattersail_]

Gnaw, on 16 April 2018 - 01:48 PM, said:

Tapper, on 16 April 2018 - 10:27 AM, said:

twelve, on 16 April 2018 - 07:14 AM, said:

I think I need to rethink my strategy for this rouND now

I had the same sinking feeling earlier on when I started thinking what I want to do, versus what I can afford.

With regard to building (I assume you want some Infantry to at the least claim both of your adjacent systems fully?): don't forget that the Second of Warfare allows you to build without activating your home system (and the token for it comes from your Strategy pool, though). Also, the Second of Diplomacy will at some point allow you to refresh 2 exhausted planets (whether your home system or colonized planets). Neither will remove Command Tokens, though.
The question is what order these cards will be played in.


I might be totally off (which would be a lot of fun), but:

Timing of Warfare
IH won't get the Warfare secondary, so he couldn't care less when it is activated for the purpose of building.
What he does care about, is that Warfare is a set-up action (+1 movement), so he needs at the least 1 Tactical CT available after playing it - with 3 Tactical CTs in his pool, this means at the latest when he has 1 left.
He also has 2 Carriers, so he's likely looking at Move ships --> use Warfare on Carrier --> Move ships or use Warfare on Carrier --> Move ships --> Move ships

If he wants to research, he also needs to have CT for that, and either have
a) Trade played (but not Diplomacy) and at the least 1 Trade Good (as his home system has only 3 production),
or have colonized a planet with 1 production and have Diplomacy played before Technology is activated.
If he wants to build (perhaps in addition to research, perhaps foregoing research) it means he needs to move all the ships out of his home system before he can activate it for the build, which means using Warfare and its move before activating the HS.
If he does not want to research but plans a build, then he might still want to have a system (Gwynan?) colonized before Diplomacy hits.

Timing of Diplomacy
For Tatts (who refreshes a system, not planets: as such, it doesn't really matter if he picks Creuss or Star Point-New Albion, both give him 4 production and 2 influence) the preferred order is either Diplomacy --> Warfare for 8 resources to build with in Creuss (that build would likely include at the least a second Carrier that can then still move), or Technology/Warfare --> Diplomacy --> Warfare/Technology, using 4 production for a tech, refreshing a system and also spending 4 points to build with: a Carrier and maybe 2 Fighters?
Basically, Tatts (and most of us) benefit the least if Technology and Warfare are played in the same round, and Diplomacy only in the round after that: he wants to use Diplomacy in between the other two. Trade being activated before Technology can possibly mitigate this, but it's a big maybe.

Timing of Research
Khell has the luxury of being able to see what IH does with Warfare before making his decision.
If Warfare is played immediately, he could use the Secondary of Warfare, then play Technology immediately. Everyone else (except you, as you use the Primary of Technology), would have to choose if we want to pay with production for the secondary of Warfare or the secondary of Technology, because the Secondary of Diplomacy would arrive after these.
In addition, if Trade is activated before Technology, Khell might (with 2 Trade Goods) even get 2 researches from the Primary, but he'd have to forego Warfare then.
Alternatively he can opt to use the Secondary of Warfare and play a Tactical first in order to colonize a planet on his first action, so that he has 2 planets to then refresh with Diplomacy, one of which is his home planet, after which he can probably still afford 2 technologies.

If Warfare is not played but Trade is played and he has 2 TG, he can gamble that Diplomacy will be used by Tatts to be able to profit from both Technology and Warfare, so he can play Technology and use his Home system and 2 TGs for 2 Technologies, then refresh through the Secondary of Diplomacy to allow him (and everyone else) to also use Warfare.

Fuck me.
Vote Tapper for Emperor
Can we play eclipse now?

This is in quite a few of the "how to play" and strategy guides out there, why its important and what you can do.

[Blend]

Alright, action posted in Game Thread.


Reminder to everyone, I don't need to be your neighbour to trade with you. If you think I might be interested in making a deal with you for some reason, please, do bring it to the table! Know that I'll have 6 commodities as soon as I can activate the Trade secondary.

Another reminder to everyone - if you want to go first next round, all you need to do is buy the speaker chip from me! I don't mind going first next round, but I'm not married to the idea - I'd much rather give it to one of you, for a small fee, that is!


Note to Twelve - I would appreciate if you would stay on your side of the empty space south of Lodd Eru. Willing to trade a promissory note, in addition to the straight up commodities trading that we've already discussed, in exchange for peace with the Jol'Narr.

[Khellendros]

Come on, everyone, relax! Let's just consider this our free hit, practice game, and we'll be all super-tactical seriousness in Malazan TI2.

Unless of course I happen to win, in which case this was all for reals.

[twelve]

I can't see the map names very well on the phone and I'm off to work so KHell, Tatts I need wait until after work today to really look over what you are proposing. Tatts my promissory notes likely wouldn't benefit you but would be good trading fodder for someone else.

I am seriously thinking of using my trade action first action in anticipation of other moves though which would only allow me to trade with blend but I will do my due diligence and look over the other proposals when I get a chance.

[Gnaw]

Blend, you up for a 1:1 commodity trade? We’ll throw in a PN on our side.

[Blend]

Gnaw, on 16 April 2018 - 02:20 PM, said:

Blend, you up for a 1:1 commodity trade? We’ll throw in a PN on our side.

I'd certainly like to see the PN before I agree to anything, given you're right on the other side of that Wormhole that's right next to my piece of space, and that worries me a bit.

Lodor is a planet that interests me in the long-term - what are your thoughts about it?

[Khellendros]

twelve, on 16 April 2018 - 02:18 PM, said:

I can't see the map names very well on the phone and I'm off to work so KHell, Tatts I need wait until after work today to really look over what you are proposing. Tatts my promissory notes likely wouldn't benefit you but would be good trading fodder for someone else.

I am seriously thinking of using my trade action first action in anticipation of other moves though which would only allow me to trade with blend but I will do my due diligence and look over the other proposals when I get a chance.

Well, all I'd say is there's probably a reason why no one has done their strategic action first.

[Tattersail_]

Blend, on 16 April 2018 - 02:16 PM, said:

Another reminder to everyone - if you want to go first next round, all you need to do is buy the speaker chip from me! I don't mind going first next round, but I'm not married to the idea - I'd much rather give it to one of you, for a small fee, that is!

You have to assign the speaker chip anyway and it benefits you to go near the start.

I think that if Nico connects to me then we can trade 2:2 he'll possibly want to trade 1:1 with IH or vise versa, so if you can open trade with me that'd be cool.

I can trade 1:1 or 2:2 depending on what suits you.

[Tattersail_]

Khellendros, on 16 April 2018 - 02:23 PM, said:

twelve, on 16 April 2018 - 02:18 PM, said:

I can't see the map names very well on the phone and I'm off to work so KHell, Tatts I need wait until after work today to really look over what you are proposing. Tatts my promissory notes likely wouldn't benefit you but would be good trading fodder for someone else.

I am seriously thinking of using my trade action first action in anticipation of other moves though which would only allow me to trade with blend but I will do my due diligence and look over the other proposals when I get a chance.

Well, all I'd say is there's probably a reason why no one has done their strategic action first.

I may have done if I had something different.

[D'rek]

Blend shows Twelve two Promissory notes

[Blend]

Tattersail_, on 16 April 2018 - 02:50 PM, said:

Blend, on 16 April 2018 - 02:16 PM, said:

Another reminder to everyone - if you want to go first next round, all you need to do is buy the speaker chip from me! I don't mind going first next round, but I'm not married to the idea - I'd much rather give it to one of you, for a small fee, that is!

You have to assign the speaker chip anyway and it benefits you to go near the start.

I think that if Nico connects to me then we can trade 2:2 he'll possibly want to trade 1:1 with IH or vise versa, so if you can open trade with me that'd be cool.

I can trade 1:1 or 2:2 depending on what suits you.

Honestly, I don't really care what order I get to choose my strategy card in. I'd rather sell it to the highest bidder.

At the moment, I've got potential agreements for a 1:1 trade with IH, a 1:1 with Twelve, and a 1:1 with ItWasGnaw - that's 3 of my 6 commodities. I'm not saying I'd be against doing a 1:1 with you, but you're not an immediate threat to me at the moment, I don't think. I'm much more invested in keeping my neighbours happy, so they can shield me from the rest of the alien scum in this galaxy.

To that end, Tapper, what are you plans for that wormhole? You thinking of staying on your side of it? Are you interested in the Hacan's purple sheep?

That being said, should ItWasGnaw get out of hand, I'd certainly help fund you in shoving a nice little fleet up his backside.