[Gintokian]

Finally saw it last night so I can rejoin this thread. I have to say I really enjoyed it! I thought the story was good, the special effects were great, and for the most part the acting was decent. There were some parts where the acting was a little off but overall I really liked it.

Spoiler

The Darth Maul thing was great! Did not expect him to be running Crimson Dawn so that was really cool. I'm a little disappointed it didn't do so well in the box office because I'd really like to see another one!
Doing 3 separate movies that are interconnected is a neat idea too though, especially ending with Kenobi since we know from REBELS that he ended up killing Maul so if they referenced that or showed it would be interesting too. I'm starting to like these one-offs better than the episodic ones.

[QuickTidal]

Gintokian, on 31 May 2018 - 02:09 PM, said:

I'm starting to like these one-offs better than the episodic ones.

You and me both!

My ranking of Post-Disney are as follows:

ROGUE ONE
SOLO
TFA
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
TLJ, I guess.

[Gintokian]

QuickTidal, on 31 May 2018 - 02:22 PM, said:

You and me both!

My ranking of Post-Disney are as follows:

ROGUE ONE
SOLO
TFA
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
TLJ, I guess.

I mostly agree with your rankings although I would switch SOLO and TFA, or have them in the same spot.

It's a shame we're now going to have to wait all the way until next december to see the next star wars movie. But I suppose that will build some anticipation.
I really hope they don't ever start releasing more than 1 a year, don't want them to over saturate it like they've done with Marvel. I never don't want to be excited for a new star wars movie.

[Khellendros]

While I, like apparently quite a few here, had some big problems with TLJ (less in the characterisation, more with the actual plot beats), Colin Trevorrow is hardly one to be talking.

[QuickTidal]

Khellendros, on 31 May 2018 - 03:02 PM, said:

While I, like apparently quite a few here, had some big problems with TLJ (less in the characterisation, more with the actual plot beats), Colin Trevorrow is hardly one to be talking.

Why?

He's got two certified hits under his belt with SAFETY NOT GUARANTEED, and JURASSIC WORLD whether you liked them or not, and one stinker which he didn't write (BOOK OF HENRY) and only directed, and he has a documentary he made before those (REALITY SHOW) that was so on the nose and well made that it got the dirtbag who it was about, fired. And looking at JURASSIC WORLD (which I liked a LOT) it did exactly what SW new entry should do....honour the past, while pushing into the present. He literally stepped into an existing IP and made a super successful new entry for new audiences and old alike. And JW 2 is tracking to a sizeable opening as well (which he wrote, and is being directed by a wonderful Spanish director, JA Bayona).

I think he's arguably the perfect guy to comment on this situation since he's already done this exact thing once to critical and audience approval. TLJ holds no such distinction, and both BRICK and BROTHER'S BLOOM are middling works at best. The only real "hit" Rian can lay claim to is LOOPER (and even that movie is a plot-hole ridden mess).

I'll choose Trevorrow any day of the week to be honest.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 31 May 2018 - 03:57 PM

[Khellendros]

By that financial measurement, TLJ was also super successful.


Yeah, we're clearly just going to disagree on this, but:

Jurassic World was an awful film, in my opinion. For me, it did exactly the opposite of what you claim it did with that franchise. It was incredibly stupid (and I can enjoy stupid films, but that was dumb without seemingly realising it), and totally lost 1) the sentimental edge of the previous films (obviously, the first more than the other two), and 2) de-clawed (pun intended) the dinosaurs to a terrible degree, just look at the T-Rex and the Velociraptor, who, among other scenes, were practically high-fiving each other after that final awful fight.

I'm not defending Rian Johnson - I did not like Looper either - but for me Colin Trevorrow is in the same boat totally, and is clearly sore about being kicked off Episode IX (and while I'm happy for that, I sigh at JJ Abrams replacing him).

[QuickTidal]

Khellendros, on 31 May 2018 - 04:42 PM, said:

By that financial measurement, TLJ was also super successful.


Yeah, we're clearly just going to disagree on this, but:

Jurassic World was an awful film, in my opinion. For me, it did exactly the opposite of what you claim it did with that franchise. It was incredibly stupid (and I can enjoy stupid films, but that was dumb without seemingly realising it), and totally lost 1) the sentimental edge of the previous films (obviously, the first more than the other two), and 2) de-clawed (pun intended) the dinosaurs to a terrible degree, just look at the T-Rex and the Velociraptor, who, among other scenes, were practically high-fiving each other after that final awful fight.

I'm not defending Rian Johnson - I did not like Looper either - but for me Colin Trevorrow is in the same boat totally, and is clearly sore about being kicked off Episode IX (and while I'm happy for that, I sigh at JJ Abrams replacing him).

You're right. We'll probably just disagree. I loved JW, and I think Rian Johnson is right up his own ass.

[QuickTidal]

I'm wondering if KK will get the sack from Iger...and someone else will be put in charge of LFL....after which in the 1.5 years till IX we get another writer director on it? Possible. I don't think KK comes out ofTLJ and Solo unscathed. The House of Mouse does not like "flops".

[Gintokian]

QuickTidal, on 31 May 2018 - 05:43 PM, said:

I'm wondering if KK will get the sack from Iger...and someone else will be put in charge of LFL....after which in the 1.5 years till IX we get another writer director on it? Possible. I don't think KK comes out ofTLJ and Solo unscathed. The House of Mouse does not like "flops".

I definitely think it's possible KK gets canned in the near future. They may wait until after episode 9 though and try to do it a little quieter. Or they'll do it soon, if they do I just hope they find someone better.
I really don't think they'll switch writers/directors again, they know what they're getting with JJ and I imagine they'll be happy with what he does.

[QuickTidal]

I think the most viable option is Dave Filoni. The guy is GL's apprentice, and has lived and breathed SW for years now in Animation. If anyone can shepherd the series going forward, I think it's him.

[Gintokian]

QuickTidal, on 31 May 2018 - 05:56 PM, said:

I think the most viable option is Dave Filoni. The guy is GL's apprentice, and has lived and breathed SW for years now in Animation. If anyone can shepherd the series going forward, I think it's him.

I had a friend who suggested that. I think he would be good as well but it just depends on what the whole role entails. Like he's good at managing the stories and stuff for the animated shows but her job seems a lot higher level. He may not have the same managing skills for that type of role and basically running the whole thing. I'm not sure how much creative input she has either, just more organization and what not.

[QuickTidal]

Gintokian, on 31 May 2018 - 06:00 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 31 May 2018 - 05:56 PM, said:

I think the most viable option is Dave Filoni. The guy is GL's apprentice, and has lived and breathed SW for years now in Animation. If anyone can shepherd the series going forward, I think it's him.

I had a friend who suggested that. I think he would be good as well but it just depends on what the whole role entails. Like he's good at managing the stories and stuff for the animated shows but her job seems a lot higher level. He may not have the same managing skills for that type of role and basically running the whole thing. I'm not sure how much creative input she has either, just more organization and what not.

Not sure.

[Traveller]

I think Filoni is more on the 'creative' side, and would be happy to remain there.
KK is more manager material from my impression. Still may not save her though.
I love what Filoni does, hope he gets to produce more SWs without getting too caught up in the marketing side.

I actually hope they quietly ditch Rian. Just because out of all the SW films, series, books etc... tLJ is just not something I feel I want to just put in and watch for the fun of it. I dont really want to watch it again at all, really. I now get why it does what it does... but it was the wrong movie to do those things with.

(And, despite all the explanations I've read, not one makes me like Rose; there's been more likable, more emotionally invested characters among the clone soldiers in CWs episodes than we got from her entire performance.)

Jurassic World was fun, with some great nods to the original, but under any sort of scrutiny or even just a second viewing, it has so many flaws in the plot they just become impossible to ignore.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 31 May 2018 - 08:18 PM

[the broken]

Why is KK being blamed for everything? She's just the President, there's an entire board making all these calls, right?

[Morgoth]

I am surprised that people are surprised Solo is tanking. Even if it is good, how could anyone think a prequel movie about Han Solo would generate much enthusiasm? Who cares about his backstory? There's no mystery there. No great unanswered questions. No interesting speculation about how he became the rogue archetype of the original trilogy. Maybe if they'd let the Lego Movie guys do the whole thing the result might have been interesting enough it would have drawn people through word of mouth alone.

Like many, I will watch it at some point, but quite probably not at the cinema.

[Traveller]

the broken, on 31 May 2018 - 11:06 PM, said:

Why is KK being blamed for everything? She's just the President, there's an entire board making all these calls, right?

I expect it's just a case of people finding out one name and then just using it instead of blaming 'Disney' like it's a person, which also happens with alarming frequency.

[champ]

Traveller, on 01 June 2018 - 07:03 AM, said:

the broken, on 31 May 2018 - 11:06 PM, said:

Why is KK being blamed for everything? She's just the President, there's an entire board making all these calls, right?

I expect it's just a case of people finding out one name and then just using it instead of blaming 'Disney' like it's a person, which also happens with alarming frequency.

There's a few YouTube channels out there calling for her head constantly due to her bringing politics into the mix and adding in the social justice warrior themes. It's quite funny at how angry they get, I don't get it personally.

They are also the ones saying she hates white males and called for a boycott of solo.

Now that the box office has been poor they claim that their campaign is working.

Geeks and Gamers is one such channel

[Traveller]

I particularly liked the tweeted picture of a nearly empty theatre on opening day, with the comment, 'look, it's nearly empty, our boycott is working!'

These people are not smart.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 01 June 2018 - 08:26 AM

[Gintokian]

the broken, on 31 May 2018 - 11:06 PM, said:

Why is KK being blamed for everything? She's just the President, there's an entire board making all these calls, right?

Even if she's not directly responsible for it all that's how these things go, someone has to be the scapegoat when things go wrong. Like Dwayne Casey being fired from the Raptors even as he wins coach of the year. They have to look like they're doing something to fix the situation just to save face. It's a shame but it happens. And I imagine she does have a considerable amount of control over these things but ultimately it's the writers and directors who are making these movies so they are the ones who should be responsible for any flops.

[QuickTidal]

the broken, on 31 May 2018 - 11:06 PM, said:

Why is KK being blamed for everything? She's just the President, there's an entire board making all these calls, right?

This is a little misguided as far as how things are being run.

There's no "board" making final calls at Lucasfilm. They have a team, but everyone answers to KK.

The creatives (directors, writers, ect.) also all answer only to Kennedy. This is how Lucasfilm was always run (when GL was in charge, it was his word VS everyone else). Nothing has changed when it moved to be under the umbrella of Disney.

Kennedy is the president, but is also (in Disney's eyes) the showrunner/Kevin Feige (President of Marvel Studios) of Lucasfilm. And Lucasfilm, though under the Disney umbrella is still a distinct company. So Disney CEO Bob Iger, and chairman Alan Horn, allow Kennedy to run LFL as she sees fit, and would continue to do so as long as she's producing hits and the brand stays relevant.

In comparison, Kevin Feige, has his fingers in all the MCU pies for each film and has made calls on a few behind the scenes fiascos, like Edgar Wright leaving ANT-MAN, and Patty Jenkins walking off THOR 2. He holds all the major cards and decisions.

Kennedy is no different, and has had her fingers in all the SW pies thus far...but to a much greater detriment of the brand compared to Feige. Up till now her decisions have amounted to hiring auteur or fresh young directors...

Josh Trank - Boba-Fett
Gareth Edwards - Rogue One
Michael Arndt (writer) & JJ Abrams (director) - TFA
Rian Jonhson - TLJ (writer and director) & IX (as writer only)
Phil Lord & Chris Miller - Solo
Colin Trevorrow - Episode IX

Fast forward and each of these products has either massively changed, or has affected the brand.

Boba-Fett - Trank fired before he had really begun to plan...film taken entirely off the LFL slate....only to JUST be brought back a week or so ago with veteran, major success writer/Director James Mangold.

Rogue One - Edwards replaced LATE in the production when his film was mostly unwatchable (according to the guy who took over) with veteran Hollywood elite writer director Tony Gilroy (who got a screenwriting credit in arbitration easily...which means he had basically turned it into a totally different movie from what Edwards originally shot)

TFA - Michael Arndt was fired off TFA and KK apparently begged Lawrence Kasdan to come back and help JJ Abrams with the script. They produce a solid SW film that a significant amount of people, even those that like it..called a rehash of ANH.

TLJ - Rian Johnson is given freer reign on his movie than anyone has yet, and in turn he produces the most divisive SW film to date. For some reason he is taken out of the listing as "writer" of Episode IX (not sure at what point this change occurred), and they coax JJ Abrams back into the slot for director and ask Chris Terrio (JUSTICE LEAGUE, ARGO) to write it. Choosing JJ is a strange one since insider info says a lot of people at Lucasfilm itself either openly, or quietly HATE TFA, especially the LFL Story Group head Pablo Hidalgo who was not shy about his hatred of it on twitter initially (he's toned it down since then).

IX - Trevorrow either was fired, or walked off production of IX. Rumour has it that Rian showed him what he was doing, and Trevorrow went to KK about how off script from JJ's plans Jonhson was heading, and KK decided to side with Rian, and let Trevorrow walk/fire him (from what I understand he'd written a treatment based off TFA characters and actions that both Hamill & JJ agreed with as a direction, but when Rian told him what he was doing, Trevorrow was furious...and then when Carrie died, so did Trevorrow's plans for IX). After a short search, JJ is coaxed back for IX with Terrio on writer duties (but we are still 1.5 years out so that could change...)

Solo - Miller & Lord hire Alden Ehrenreich instead of Anthony Ingruber (their first major mistake)m, and proceed to shoot the film the way they shoot their comedies, with multiple takes and often going of script to try to get the most laugh for their buck...Kasdan (writer) complains how often they are fucking with his script, and KK comes on set and sees them wasting tonnes of time by shooting every scene with 30 takes (this may be an exaggeration, but it was a lot) and it's not going the was she and Kasdan feel it should. She unceremoniously fires them with only two weeks of principle photography to go...brings in veteran writer/director (and personal friend) Ron Howard who then spends the summer reshooting nearly the entire thing (rumour has it that only portions of the Kessel Run cockpit dialogue and the Han Meets Chewie mud planet scene are in any way still Miller & Lord's work) at a cost of doubling the production budget to around 300millon not including marketing, the most expensive SW movie to date as far as I'm aware? And it bombs at the box office. Whatever the reason for the bombing (I believe there are multiple factors...one of which YES is TLJ backlash wether people buy that or not).

Now, imagine you're Bob Iger or Alan Horn. You run Disney and answer to shareholders. Over on your left you have Kevin Feige running the MCU and 19 films in a decade with only MILD behind the scenes snafus and mostly successful box office runs with no signs of fatigue....and on your right you have Lucasfilm and Kat Kennedy who in just over two years have made 4 SW films ALL of which have had some kind of behind the scenes shenanigans, one of which has divided the fanbase (while it still made $$$, such a thing still affects the brand), and one of which is an outright bomb at the box office and that one is the one you've WAY overspent on as well.

You're not going to be happy. And since KK makes all the final decisions regarding SW...there is no one else's feet to lay the blame.

Now, I'm not getting on KK's case. She's a SPECTACULAR producer, and always has been. She's helped make most of the films that define my childhood. But she is NOT "creative" in any way, but as show runner is being asked to shepherd these films through the creatives she hires. At that job, she is not exactly humming along. Yeah, TFA, RO, and TLJ have all been box office successes, but CEO's and shareholders don't look at just "what this made now" they look at "brand staying power" and for SW franchise to begin to flag at the 4th film...is a bad situation.

TL;DR: KK is a great producer, but a piss poor showrunner.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 01 June 2018 - 01:07 PM