[Kalse]

Here.

Welcome back to the game Estos!

Hmm. interesting that Osseric has not posted yet. Nice point about Hanas upthread as well.

[Kalse]

Ay Estos, on 07 December 2017 - 09:47 AM, said:

Anomandaris, on 07 December 2017 - 08:19 AM, said:

If we're going to get a lynch today then we need to coordinate soon.

Something I find summy about Kalse is that isntead of plying in real time they comment on things from way back effectively minimising their real-time interaction with other players. So they express their opinions but they don't give others much chance to interact with them because the stuff that they comment on have been already discussed from the most part

Hypocriteee

Also despite the amount of their posts I'm having a hard time getting a read on EP, that's suspicious but it's more of a gut kind of supicion

You, uh might want to look up the definition of hypocrite.

Also timezone differences.

[Ay Estos]

Anomandaris, on 07 December 2017 - 12:18 PM, said:

I will vote before timeout, at the moment I am happy to vote Aranatha or Eldat Pressen. That's what I get from my read up earlier.

What's the case on Eldat? Unless I missed something you barely mention him on D2

[Ay Estos]

Kalse, on 07 December 2017 - 12:45 PM, said:

Ay Estos, on 07 December 2017 - 09:47 AM, said:

Anomandaris, on 07 December 2017 - 08:19 AM, said:

If we're going to get a lynch today then we need to coordinate soon.

Something I find summy about Kalse is that isntead of plying in real time they comment on things from way back effectively minimising their real-time interaction with other players. So they express their opinions but they don't give others much chance to interact with them because the stuff that they comment on have been already discussed from the most part

Hypocriteee

You, uh might want to look up the definition of hypocrite.

I'm criticising you for something that I'm doing myself, does that not make one a hypocrite?

[Kalse]

Ay Estos, on 07 December 2017 - 12:49 PM, said:

Kalse, on 07 December 2017 - 12:45 PM, said:

Ay Estos, on 07 December 2017 - 09:47 AM, said:

Anomandaris, on 07 December 2017 - 08:19 AM, said:

If we're going to get a lynch today then we need to coordinate soon.

Something I find summy about Kalse is that isntead of plying in real time they comment on things from way back effectively minimising their real-time interaction with other players. So they express their opinions but they don't give others much chance to interact with them because the stuff that they comment on have been already discussed from the most part

Hypocriteee

You, uh might want to look up the definition of hypocrite.

I'm criticising you for something that I'm doing myself, does that not make one a hypocrite?

So you are the hypocrite? Whatever makes you happy I guess.

Now, Hanas.

Aranatha actually has a fair point. Unlike you, Estos, Tennes, Okaros or Osseric, Hanas has been moderately present. And he has commented. He has questioned the Yawn case, he was very curious about the uses of yawning in previous games, and he questioned the Ruse vote.

But he never voted.

This is all very good moderate town play that attracts no attention at all. And is thus extremely suspicious.

[Jalan]

Ay Estos, on 07 December 2017 - 12:06 PM, said:

Yeah, thought I posted this some time ago:

Path-Shaper, on 06 December 2017 - 06:15 PM, said:

It is Day 2. 19 hours and 50 minutes remaining

13 Players still alive: Anomandaris, Aranatha, Ay Estos, Eldat Pressen, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Okaros, Osseric, Ruse, Skintick, Tennes, Thyrllan

7 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Ay Estos ( Eldat Pressen )
1 Vote for Kalse ( Anomandaris )

Players not voted: Aranatha, Ay Estos, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Okaros, Osseric, Ruse, Skintick, Tennes, Thyrllan

2 hours 59 mins left?

What's your thoughts on Kalse Jalan?

Anyone care to maybe, uhm vote or something?

Okay, had a look at Kalse:

Gets involved in the potato roleplay, joke votes Ano early on (removed 12 hours later upon return), expresses doubts about Aranatha's idea that Merrid is signalling Eldat Pressen, but in the end doesn't vote anywhere, expresses a wish to look at people who hopped on midway on Fandy's train, highlights Tennes in particular but then almost immediately puts in a caveat to that suspicion ('Tennes is TOO lazy'). Then moves on to Ay Estos, whom they put in the same box as Tennes. After that they move on to Eldat and Aranatha (rows back on Aranatha), before eventually settling on Osseric. When called out on all the pointing around they've done today, Kalse says it's their normal day 2 practice.

So: Still no vote though as far as I saw despite the good amount of digging around they've done. Ultimately, however, I don't see much wrong in their day 2 play, I like that they've taken a look at several people, even if I disagree with some of the conclusions drawn. Having said that, I'd like to know where Kalse stands now, as it's difficult to tell where their suspicions actually lie after that (the lack of a vote, etc). Some things were picked up and then entirely dropped, like the Eldat/Aranatha bit.

Another thing I got from reading back on Kalse: Thyrllan is playing?

[Kalse]

Jalan, on 07 December 2017 - 12:57 PM, said:

Ay Estos, on 07 December 2017 - 12:06 PM, said:

Yeah, thought I posted this some time ago:

Path-Shaper, on 06 December 2017 - 06:15 PM, said:

It is Day 2. 19 hours and 50 minutes remaining

13 Players still alive: Anomandaris, Aranatha, Ay Estos, Eldat Pressen, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Okaros, Osseric, Ruse, Skintick, Tennes, Thyrllan

7 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Ay Estos ( Eldat Pressen )
1 Vote for Kalse ( Anomandaris )

Players not voted: Aranatha, Ay Estos, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Okaros, Osseric, Ruse, Skintick, Tennes, Thyrllan

2 hours 59 mins left?

What's your thoughts on Kalse Jalan?

Anyone care to maybe, uhm vote or something?

Okay, had a look at Kalse:

Gets involved in the potato roleplay, joke votes Ano early on (removed 12 hours later upon return), expresses doubts about Aranatha's idea that Merrid is signalling Eldat Pressen, but in the end doesn't vote anywhere, expresses a wish to look at people who hopped on midway on Fandy's train, highlights Tennes in particular but then almost immediately puts in a caveat to that suspicion ('Tennes is TOO lazy'). Then moves on to Ay Estos, whom they put in the same box as Tennes. After that they move on to Eldat and Aranatha (rows back on Aranatha), before eventually settling on Osseric. When called out on all the pointing around they've done today, Kalse says it's their normal day 2 practice.

So: Still no vote though as far as I saw despite the good amount of digging around they've done. Ultimately, however, I don't see much wrong in their day 2 play, I like that they've taken a look at several people, even if I disagree with some of the conclusions drawn. Having said that, I'd like to know where Kalse stands now, as it's difficult to tell where their suspicions actually lie after that (the lack of a vote, etc). Some things were picked up and then entirely dropped, like the Eldat/Aranatha bit.

Another thing I got from reading back on Kalse: Thyrllan is playing?

In answer to that my current suspicions are that there was at least one scum on the train and one outside playing the non entity.

Of those on the train, I am naturally suspicious of the drivebys, but for some reason Osseric is giving me a bad feeling. And I think Hanas is the scum outside the thread. I am unsure about Aranatha.

So there you have it. Unless something changes, I will vote either Hanas or Osseric

[Jalan]

So had a look at Osseric (didn't take long), and the only thing which *might* stand out to me is the post below. They say they have a different suspicion of Fanderay, but never elaborate on what it could be. Were they saving this in case the train on Fandy stalled? The scum as the 3rd or 4th voter bit as well...yeah, that's just lazy generalisation at that point.

Osseric, on 05 December 2017 - 07:52 PM, said:

We're in full form now, latching on to ... I'm not sure what, yet, apparently it's based on the use of punctuation ... to line up our Day One vote.

I had a different suspicion about Fanderay ... but there's definitely a pile-on that doesn't entirely make sense. I have a very strong feeling we're going to find scum in the range of the 3rd or 4th voter in the Day One train. Not casting my vote yet.

Think I'll have a look see at Hanas and Okaros next.

[Osseric]

Kalse, on 07 December 2017 - 12:44 PM, said:

Hmm. interesting that Osseric has not posted yet. Nice point about Hanas upthread as well.

Not in Day 2, I haven't. Yesterday in real life was a lost day for me, I don't even remember most of it.

Just trying to get caught up, and really wishing people would learn to edit their fucking posts - by the time I get to the bottom of some of them, I've forgotten who wrote it to begin with, because of the walls of quoted text.

[Kalse]

Aranatha, on 06 December 2017 - 10:21 PM, said:

I have a minute and this is what I see in the last few pages.

Jalan, on 06 December 2017 - 12:35 AM, said:

Why not just vote Merrid straight away?

Fandy has been quite calm and helpful ever since they were put on the chopping block.

First, that is an odd thing to say about Merrid. I realize you were responding to his comment, but he didn't vote Merrid. Merrid basically created the yawn case that consumed day 1, he wasn't really under suspicion. It is odd for you to suggest so casually that someone else vote for him, especially since he ended up being roled town.

Second, your position on Fandy makes you sound like a sociopath, but you don't mention voting him until your next post, where you add some waffling around so it doesn't look odd when you hammer him later. You even say you are going to vote Fandy - but you don't. It's a lot of bullshit padding like "I might be right, but maybe not!" Then you start to talk about me.

Jalan, on 06 December 2017 - 12:43 AM, said:

I think I like an Aranatha vote, but I'm not going to get that lynch so I will be voting for Fanderay. It is very rare that this kind of case actually obtains a positive result for town, but who knows, this could be that one time.

As for Aranatha, their play so far has felt...knowledgeable. They've doubted the Fanderay case and now have come out with an alternate who isn't around to respond or fight back. I don't think they're in cahoots with Fandy, but rather setting them up for a final vote push by coming out with a vote elsewhere and so looking like they're deflecting from Fandy - a defence of sorts, the final nail in the coffin for many a lynch.

I'll be around for a bit, but I think this train is set on Fandy. As I said, there is still potential there for it to be right. It's not what arouses my main suspicions at this moment, but then when have I ever been right anyway.

Ironic that this is about me but I really don't like the way the underlined above tries so hard to paint ANYONE as some kind of mastermind pulling strings on...day 1. Seriously? Way too much detail, you try really hard to be convincing by (for once) sounding suddenly very unsure about things. Sounds more like an accidental reveal than an accusation. Then at the end you say even though you suspect me the most, it's not really a big deal because "you're never right". You wouldn't want to vote off the train and look like you were deflecting, now would you? (Ahem.) Scum often try to project because they know more than everyone else, and this is enough to ping my scumdar.

20 minutes after Fandy is put at L-1 (with 3 hours left still), Jalan hammers:

Jalan, on 06 December 2017 - 01:26 AM, said:

Off to bed now, don't see much reason to delay this any further. Fingers crossed then.

Remove Vote

Vote Fanderay

Funny that Fandy said this:

Fanderay, on 06 December 2017 - 01:02 AM, said:

I hope not. Finding out who the hammer will be is information.

So, after all this, Fandy turns up RI. What do you know. Anyone who still thinks scum would so obviously deflect from an RI with 5 of 8 votes and only a few hours left on day 1 is a fucking moron.

In fact, that's pretty much all I have to say about Ruse, too. People are wondering why I voted for him, instead of why he wasn't modkilled after the 36 hour timer and no explanation from Ruse or P-S. You guys can do math, right? Ruse missed the timer. Fortunately, he wasn't modkilled for unknown reasons and that's good - modkills don't give a CF, even if Ruse isn't playing at all. Unfortunately, it makes me look like an asshole because even though I was right and Ruse didn't show, nothing happened. But this is all ancillary to Jalan.

Enough for a vote.

Vote Jalan

Jalan, on 07 December 2017 - 12:14 AM, said:

Nice of you to take that first post entirely out of the context, that he had gone on about Merrid but then voted elsewhere, so it's a simple question, why not just vote for Merrid straight off if that's where the suspicion for them lies?

Second, you've done a messy job of trying to misrepresent my posts before OMGUS voting for me - hit a nerve with you have I? A little panicky already? Don't think I've seen an OMGUS before a vote has even hit before. I knew I'd hit something with you, just had that strong feeling from the moment you started posting.

So, to take it apart:

- Yes, I said I would vote for Fandy, thus making my intentions clear. That is not waffling. Why not vote straight away? Because I knew my vote would be close to hammer if not the hammer itself, and I would be around for the next few hours, so I allowed the time for potential last-minute hijinks There weren't, so I laid down my vote just before going to bed. Seems absurdly sensible to me.

- The "I'm never right'" concerned the Fanderay case, not you, so that's a misreading on your part.

- What's fascinating here is that you're accusing me of EXACTLY what I've accused you of already, acting too knowledgeable. Interesting that you chose not to include that post of mine among the ones above. See, for example, your picking apart of the Fanderay case. And above you have the gall to say that my post has 'way too much detail'? You're talking about your own posts there mate.

- Are you actually citing a dead man's musings as evidence for my guilt? That's really weak reaching. But then I have a feeling you would have used that post to make a case on just about anyone who hammered.

- Yes, Fandy turns up RI. What do you know? Well, seems you knew, judging by your play.

- And finally, wow. Just wow about what you say at the end on Ruse. Talk about painting a target on their back. In fact, that is now the only thing holding me back from voting immediately for you, because that comes across as more sympish than killer. Let's see if we can't find your masters shall we?

Oookay. this little exchange has changed my mind. Aranatha does seem to be scrambling, and this reads like a scum on the defensive.

So if Jalan is right and Aranatha is a symp, we need to identify the killer, but I don't think it will be easy as the Symp may not have been trying to shield a killer but simply force a town lynch.

On the other hand this makes me less certain about Hanas.

[Osseric]

Jalan, on 07 December 2017 - 01:08 PM, said:

So had a look at Osseric (didn't take long), and the only thing which *might* stand out to me is the post below. They say they have a different suspicion of Fanderay, but never elaborate on what it could be. Were they saving this in case the train on Fandy stalled? The scum as the 3rd or 4th voter bit as well...yeah, that's just lazy generalisation at that point.

My suspicions were for a couple of people - Fanderay and Skintick - who seemed to have taken the early part of Day One to run up their post count quick and early, so they'd stay high in the rankings in later days, even if their participation dropped.

And yes, it was a lazy generalization, but that's the best I could come up with on Day One. And I don't think it's inaccurate, as I don't think scum would be too hot to start bad-case trains this early in the game. They don't need to, because there's all sorts of stupid flying around they can wait and then jump in with, once it gets momentum.

[Anomandaris]

I keep going back to why would EP fake symp Fanderay like that.

[Jalan]

Osseric, on 07 December 2017 - 01:12 PM, said:

Jalan, on 07 December 2017 - 01:08 PM, said:

So had a look at Osseric (didn't take long), and the only thing which *might* stand out to me is the post below. They say they have a different suspicion of Fanderay, but never elaborate on what it could be. Were they saving this in case the train on Fandy stalled? The scum as the 3rd or 4th voter bit as well...yeah, that's just lazy generalisation at that point.

My suspicions were for a couple of people - Fanderay and Skintick - who seemed to have taken the early part of Day One to run up their post count quick and early, so they'd stay high in the rankings in later days, even if their participation dropped.

And yes, it was a lazy generalization, but that's the best I could come up with on Day One. And I don't think it's inaccurate, as I don't think scum would be too hot to start bad-case trains this early in the game. They don't need to, because there's all sorts of stupid flying around they can wait and then jump in with, once it gets momentum.

So based on this I take it that your suspects are Anomandaris and Tennes then (the 3rd and 4th players on Fandy's train)?

[Jalan]

Hanas likes to say things like 'to be fair' and 'to be honest', is the first thing I notice. Gets quite involved in the 'yawn' discussion, seemingly trying to work out if one player has a habit of saying it. Gets called out by Eldat on it, and rows back a bit ("not digging, just curious" - post #132). Has quite a bit of interaction with Anomandaris. Is not a fan of Ara's vote on Ruse. Call out Eldat's 'I should be lynched next' post as scummy behaviour.

Yeah, so a fair number of short posts, that commenting but not commenting thing that a few others I think have raised already. More involved in the game on day 1 than today. There's nothing there that jumps out or sticks, but that in itself could be a sign of course. As with Kalse previously, I have no idea which way their suspicions currently blow according to their posts. Eldat was the last one they independently singled out, and they vaguely agreed with me on Aranatha's Ruse vote.

[Jalan]

Kalse, on 07 December 2017 - 01:10 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 06 December 2017 - 10:21 PM, said:

I have a minute and this is what I see in the last few pages.

Jalan, on 06 December 2017 - 12:35 AM, said:

Why not just vote Merrid straight away?

Fandy has been quite calm and helpful ever since they were put on the chopping block.

First, that is an odd thing to say about Merrid. I realize you were responding to his comment, but he didn't vote Merrid. Merrid basically created the yawn case that consumed day 1, he wasn't really under suspicion. It is odd for you to suggest so casually that someone else vote for him, especially since he ended up being roled town.

Second, your position on Fandy makes you sound like a sociopath, but you don't mention voting him until your next post, where you add some waffling around so it doesn't look odd when you hammer him later. You even say you are going to vote Fandy - but you don't. It's a lot of bullshit padding like "I might be right, but maybe not!" Then you start to talk about me.

Jalan, on 06 December 2017 - 12:43 AM, said:

I think I like an Aranatha vote, but I'm not going to get that lynch so I will be voting for Fanderay. It is very rare that this kind of case actually obtains a positive result for town, but who knows, this could be that one time.

As for Aranatha, their play so far has felt...knowledgeable. They've doubted the Fanderay case and now have come out with an alternate who isn't around to respond or fight back. I don't think they're in cahoots with Fandy, but rather setting them up for a final vote push by coming out with a vote elsewhere and so looking like they're deflecting from Fandy - a defence of sorts, the final nail in the coffin for many a lynch.

I'll be around for a bit, but I think this train is set on Fandy. As I said, there is still potential there for it to be right. It's not what arouses my main suspicions at this moment, but then when have I ever been right anyway.

Ironic that this is about me but I really don't like the way the underlined above tries so hard to paint ANYONE as some kind of mastermind pulling strings on...day 1. Seriously? Way too much detail, you try really hard to be convincing by (for once) sounding suddenly very unsure about things. Sounds more like an accidental reveal than an accusation. Then at the end you say even though you suspect me the most, it's not really a big deal because "you're never right". You wouldn't want to vote off the train and look like you were deflecting, now would you? (Ahem.) Scum often try to project because they know more than everyone else, and this is enough to ping my scumdar.

20 minutes after Fandy is put at L-1 (with 3 hours left still), Jalan hammers:

Jalan, on 06 December 2017 - 01:26 AM, said:

Off to bed now, don't see much reason to delay this any further. Fingers crossed then.

Remove Vote

Vote Fanderay

Funny that Fandy said this:

Fanderay, on 06 December 2017 - 01:02 AM, said:

I hope not. Finding out who the hammer will be is information.

So, after all this, Fandy turns up RI. What do you know. Anyone who still thinks scum would so obviously deflect from an RI with 5 of 8 votes and only a few hours left on day 1 is a fucking moron.

In fact, that's pretty much all I have to say about Ruse, too. People are wondering why I voted for him, instead of why he wasn't modkilled after the 36 hour timer and no explanation from Ruse or P-S. You guys can do math, right? Ruse missed the timer. Fortunately, he wasn't modkilled for unknown reasons and that's good - modkills don't give a CF, even if Ruse isn't playing at all. Unfortunately, it makes me look like an asshole because even though I was right and Ruse didn't show, nothing happened. But this is all ancillary to Jalan.

Enough for a vote.

Vote Jalan

Jalan, on 07 December 2017 - 12:14 AM, said:

Nice of you to take that first post entirely out of the context, that he had gone on about Merrid but then voted elsewhere, so it's a simple question, why not just vote for Merrid straight off if that's where the suspicion for them lies?

Second, you've done a messy job of trying to misrepresent my posts before OMGUS voting for me - hit a nerve with you have I? A little panicky already? Don't think I've seen an OMGUS before a vote has even hit before. I knew I'd hit something with you, just had that strong feeling from the moment you started posting.

So, to take it apart:

- Yes, I said I would vote for Fandy, thus making my intentions clear. That is not waffling. Why not vote straight away? Because I knew my vote would be close to hammer if not the hammer itself, and I would be around for the next few hours, so I allowed the time for potential last-minute hijinks There weren't, so I laid down my vote just before going to bed. Seems absurdly sensible to me.

- The "I'm never right'" concerned the Fanderay case, not you, so that's a misreading on your part.

- What's fascinating here is that you're accusing me of EXACTLY what I've accused you of already, acting too knowledgeable. Interesting that you chose not to include that post of mine among the ones above. See, for example, your picking apart of the Fanderay case. And above you have the gall to say that my post has 'way too much detail'? You're talking about your own posts there mate.

- Are you actually citing a dead man's musings as evidence for my guilt? That's really weak reaching. But then I have a feeling you would have used that post to make a case on just about anyone who hammered.

- Yes, Fandy turns up RI. What do you know? Well, seems you knew, judging by your play.

- And finally, wow. Just wow about what you say at the end on Ruse. Talk about painting a target on their back. In fact, that is now the only thing holding me back from voting immediately for you, because that comes across as more sympish than killer. Let's see if we can't find your masters shall we?

Oookay. this little exchange has changed my mind. Aranatha does seem to be scrambling, and this reads like a scum on the defensive.

So if Jalan is right and Aranatha is a symp, we need to identify the killer, but I don't think it will be easy as the Symp may not have been trying to shield a killer but simply force a town lynch.

On the other hand this makes me less certain about Hanas.

Yeah, having read through Hanas, this is the main sticking point with me too. There's nothing you can particularly accuse Hanas of (which is either scummy or they need to get involved more directly in the game), but one thing you probably can't do is link Aranatha and Hanas together after Aranatha's vote.

[Kalse]

So at the moment, I think Aranatha is the best candidate for a lynch

2 major reasons - that Ruse vote is pretty suspicious and his subsequent engagement with Jalan rang all the wrong bells for me.

The other reason is that a lot of people are suspicious about the Ruse vote, it will be brought up again, and frankly I like to get these things out of the way early.


Vote Aranatha

[Kalse]

To me, the only other option is Hanas and the fact that he has flown below the radar.

I am NOT dismissing him, too many times the typical Hanas-analogue has been scum, but I honestly don't think we will be able to lynch him in the time remaining.

And I can't really pin anything on EP.

[Jalan]

I still see Aranatha as a symp. Notably no one thus far even coming out with a semblance of a defence or deflection - although I guess there aren't exactly many votes down yet. What do we have, like an hour left?

[Kalse]

Jalan, on 07 December 2017 - 02:01 PM, said:

I still see Aranatha as a symp. Notably no one thus far even coming out with a semblance of a defence or deflection - although I guess there aren't exactly many votes down yet. What do we have, like an hour left?

The lack of votes and general involvement worries me.

You maybe right and Aranatha could be a symp, but would a symp get so defensive?

[Anomandaris]

Can we get an update PS?