[Abyss]

 Nevyn, on 02 January 2018 - 04:39 PM, said:

 Shiver, on 18 November 2017 - 07:33 PM, said:

Fair enough, but neither Toc the Elder or his son were ever described as having blue skin, though, which he'd have if he were Napan.

Then again Hawl also died in this book when she should've gone on to marry Nok and later die on Drift Avalii, so maybe there's just a bit of continuity mess-up going on.

I've been going back through text searches of the MBotF chasing down references.

And worth noting that when Nok and Gamet are talking with Tavore about the family, they actually mention Hawl among the losses of conquering Malaz.

So whatever weirdness goes on there, it seems to be by design. Although there are other inconsistensies.

The thing is, Dancer was surprised to find Hawl on Avalii in HoC, so the notion of her faking her own death is totally workable, but for that she was supposed to have married Nok first.
...unless that marriage already happened, but then i'm scratching my head why Hawl would bail at this stage rather than later when most of the Old Guard start faking their deaths.

....not to mention that Hawl ends up on Avalii with a bunch of Malazans and Dassem Ultor...


ICE YOU GOT SOME 'SPLAINING TO DO.

[Nevyn]

 Abyss, on 02 January 2018 - 07:03 PM, said:

The thing is, Dancer was surprised to find Hawl on Avalii in HoC, so the notion of her faking her own death is totally workable, but for that she was supposed to have married Nok first.
...unless that marriage already happened, but then i'm scratching my head why Hawl would bail at this stage rather than later when most of the Old Guard start faking their deaths.

....not to mention that Hawl ends up on Avalii with a bunch of Malazans and Dassem Ultor...


ICE YOU GOT SOME 'SPLAINING TO DO.

What is to say they aren't married already? Nok (Noc) is referred to already. Just because he did not leave Nap with her doesn't mean they are not married yet.

Reading back through HoC, the two biggest factual discrepancies seem to be what happened to Nap, and when Nok was there

Here is the quote, round about page 296 in the google ebook:

Quote

'Who were the first hirelings, Admiral?"
'Myself, Ameron, Dujek, a woman named Hawl - my wife. I had been First Mate to a corsair that worked the sea lanes around the Napan Isles - which had just been annexed by Unta and were providing a staging point for the Untan King's planned invasion of Kartool. We'd taken beating and had limped into Malaz Harbour, only to have the ship and its crew arrested by Mock, who was negotiating a trade of prisoners with Unta. Only Ameron and Hawl and I escaped. A lad named Dujek discovered where we were holed up and he delivered us to his new employers, Kellanved and Dancer.'
'Was this before they were granted entry into the Deadhouse?' Gamet asked.
'Aye, but only just. Our residency in the Deadhouse rewarded us with - as is now clearly evident - certain gifts. Longevity, immunity to most diseases, and ... other things. The Deadhouse also provided us with an unassailable base of operations. Dancer later bolstered our numbers by recruiting among the refugee Napans who'd fled the conquest: Cartheron Crust and his brother, Urko. And Surly - Laseen. Three more men were to follow shortly thereafter. Toc Elder, Dassem Ultor - who was, like Kellanved, of Dal Honese blood - and a renegade High Septarcg of the D'rek Cult, Tayschrenn. And finally, Duiker.' He half smiled at Tavore. ' The family. Which with Kellanved conquered Malaz Island. Swiftly done, with minimal losses ...'
Minimal ... 'Your wife' Gamet said.
'Yes, her'.

The conversation goes on, but I have to type and can't copy paste, so we'll end there. Discrepancies from Deadhouse Landing in bold, the part suggesting Hawl always died around the events of this book in red.

Which still doesn't explain how she ends up alive on Drift Avalii later, but suggests that that could be an as yet unexplained happening in the story and not an ICE error.

By the way, this is the same book where she appears on Drift Avalii talking about her dying back then.

Could be what the "Longevity, immunity to most diseases, and ... other things." refers to.


This book also suggested they all got into Deadhouse and used it as a base before taking over Malaz.

[Nevyn]

PS> Another thing I came in across while looking for references was a description (in Throatslitter POV) of the order of conquest which could predict the next book.

Namely, it had the T'lan Imass overthrowing Heng before Kellanved had a navy or had conquered anywhere else in Quon Tali.

Which, if ice sticks with it could have the next book be Nap from the Napan's, KD finding the Imass throne, and then overthrowing the protectress.

Then any future books could be further empire building.

[Abyss]

oh fuckit the timeline is not important the timeline is not important the timeline is not important the timeline is not important the timeline is not important the timeline is not important
the timeline is not important the timeline is not important the timeline is not important the timeline is not important the timeline is not important the timeline is not important
the timeline is not important the timeline is not important the timeline is
not important the timeline is not important the timeline is not important the timeline is not important the timeline is not
important the timeline is not important the timeline is not important the timeline is not important the timeline is not important the
timeline is not important the timeline is not important
the timeline is not important the timeline is not important the timeline is not important the timeline is not important
the timeline is not important the timeline is not important the timeline is not important the timeline is not important the timeline is not important the timeline is not important
the timeline is not important the timeline is not important the timeline is not

[Nevyn]

Lol, also reading that HoC quote, it has to be Erikson's biggest exposition dump of all time.

[ArchieVist]

Gorefest said:

1510964079[/url]' post='1310081']

Lamora said:

1510796427[/url]' post='1309751']
Does anyone know when Graymane joined the group? I thought he was part of the Old Guard, but he doesn't seem to have appeared yet? Or did I miss him somewhere?

Greymane Old Guard? He is one of the commanders under Kellanved, but not during his early exploits. Greymane didnt rise to prominence until the Korelri invasion which is way, waaaaay later in the Malazan campaigns, if I recall correctly. So he should have no involvement in these early exploits, i dont think

Greymane's kicking around somewhere at this time. In Dancer's Lament, Buell tells Silk that not even Greymane himself could take on Ryllandaras.

[ArchieVist]

worry said:

1511511049[/url]' post='1310885']
Tattersail should have read her deck! Has ICE ever done a deck-reading scene?

One that comes to mind is the little boy, Hrath, in RotCG. He does a reading for Ereko that mentions the Queen of Dreams, Soldier of Light, Kallor, Death, etc.

[ArchieVist]

ICE talks about the future of the series here.

Quote

JSH: Path to Ascendancy is a trilogy, correct?
ICE: Currently, the Path to Ascendancy series stands as a trilogy (sort of). It may expand, but that will all depend upon its execution and reception. In other words, if it works and I enjoy it as much as the readers, then there is a chance it could expand.
JSH: What is your current tease for the third book in the Path to Ascendancy series?
ICE: Gah, I have no current tease. What I will say is that just as Deadhouse Landing picked up right after Dancer's Lament, so too will the next pick up, and that its current working title is Kellanved's Reach.

[Kellanveds_Herald]

I agree with SOOOOO much of what you said here. I know this book is supposed to be about Dancer, but I felt this book, even more so then Dancers Lament, REALLY shows the relationship that Dancer and Kellanved have with one another. I CAN'T WAIT until the next book. This was just such a fun ride! So many twists and turns!

Spoiler

Kellanved: I just wanna say I LOVEEEEE KELLANVED! His thirst for knowledge! His curiousity! His way of seeing things in the world that no one else sees. ADMIRAL?!!?!?! Then after he shows it, it just makes SOOO much sense. Of course, in true Kellanved fashion, he has to 'dress' it up a bit. I was DYING when they got into the Deadhouse and the guardian attacked them. Kellanved saying I have a plan and BOLTING for the door! Had me DYING!. Or his knowledge of the shells, not knowing what they are but knowing they have valuable and using that knowledge to then buy the Twisted! I just LOVE his audacity. Yeah, there is a gate, I'm going through it!

Him striking a deal with the HOUNDS?!?!? It makes SOOOOO much sense! The hounds being BORED?!?!? Just SOOOOO GENIUS! Did I go crazy here or did Kellanved use the future imperial warren to hold the Hounds in place? Kellanved learning that Shadow stretched everywhere and using that to his advantage. I LOVE how he chose his name!

Kellanved & Dancer's relationship growth: I LOVE how by the end of the book, Dancer just trusts Kellanved. You see it when Dancer wanted to fight Guran instead of Lee and Kellanved, just holds his arms gently, enough to still Dancer. You also see this trust when Dacner is getting dressed before they go to the hold and just trust Kellanved when he says he doesn't think it will come to a fight for Dancer.

Dassem's stand: OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!! I was in AWE watching this one man hold off column after column of soldiers. In that same moment, the sadness and wastefulness that he feels is occurring. It was just such an AWESOME scene to watch. The same could be said for Dassem and Shear's nightly training. GOD, I was giving a sly and approving nod at the end of their final training session.... Also, the LOVE and DISREGARD for his own safety when the caravan was being set upon and they moved towards his wagon...My heart was THUMPING that nothing was going to happen

Tayschreen: I will admit, before this book, he was one of my least favorite characters. It was TOUGH to get over Pale and MOI. Anywho, to see him be so dedicated to his craft. His willingness to push aside any risks in the search of knowledge of the warrens. His naive view of the importance of the political system in the D'Rek cult. I found myself sympathizing with him GREATLY. I found it AWESOME how he held off over 100 D'Rek priests and priestness as they attacked him. His PRIDE with not running from the problems that were presented to him! Just LOVEEEEEEEE ITTTT!!!

Surly - Ok, her fight with Geffen...OMGGGGGGGGG!!!! No knife!!! Just barehanded! That was AMAZING to see. It was AMAZING to see her how REAL her love was for them. It was AMAZING to see how much loyalty her fellow Napans had for her. She TOTALLY owns her name Surly!!!! She's just a BEAST! It's kinda crazy how different I felt about her after seeing her in this light!

Miscellaneous: That Cowl and Dancer fight THOUGH!?!?!?!?!? OMGGGGGGGG!!! That was GREAT! I LOVE how ICE has shown the growth in Dancer but also shown the randominess, skill, luck and everything in between when he's fighting Cowl or anyone from Heng.

Did anyone see Shrift coming though?? I TOTALLY thought Cowl had killed Amiss. You got me on that one ICE!!! Dassem being trained by HOOD?!?!?!??!? Did Hood send Dassem to Malaz to setup with Kellanved and Dancer? Also, can someone tell me what D'Rek things Tayschreen is going to do? The same for what K'Rul think Dancer and Kellanved are going to do? Also, did Kellanved SNEAK into the Deadhouse or did it make a 'deal' with them and let them in?

All I can say, this book has made me a MAJOR Kellanved fan. It started in Dancer's Lament, but was on FULL display here. I can already see how Tayschreen and Kellanved are going to be GREAT friends, joined by their curiosity of the world and everything in between it. Those two meeting in Shadow?

Also, I was a bit disappointed that we don't know what transformation that Kellanved received from opening his warren on Otataral Island. I also wish we knew how Kellanved and Dancer went from being eaten by the ground in Shadow to back in Malaz???

Can't WAIT til the next book. I've been holding off on reading the ICE books, but Dancer's Lament and now Deadhouse Landing have me SOOOOO excited to go read the other books. It's just a marvel to stand back and appreciate what these two men have created!!!!

 Andorion, on 15 November 2017 - 01:19 PM, said:

So, that was a wild wild ride.

I feel as if all the promises ICE made in Dancer's Lament really came to fruition in this book. I am completely and utterly hooked into this series. Frankly I think it should be extended further, or another trilogy commissioned.

Spoiler

Kellanved We finally see his magery truly unleashed. He is far more comfortable in switching through warrens, Shadow is now a deadly weapon in his hands, and he has tamed the hounds! Also that entire episode on Otataral Island is extremely interesting. The type of transformation this caused in him is not really enlarged upon but probably played a huge part in shaping his future skill, particularly his multifaceted nature which makes him so hard to pin down. Also his crafting of Meanas and Emurlahn by which he leashed the Hounds - that is easily High Mage level capability. Also loved how randomly he chose his name!!

Dancer: I loved how unknown to himself Dancer is already a legend due to events of Deadhouse Landing. And we see how deadly he already is - normal thugs can't even begin to touch him. And the Cowl-Dancer fight was mouth watering.

Dassem: In my opinion he is still the most enigmatic. Did he learn his sword skills from an Imass? Also Dassem's comment about being "inspired" does he draw on Hood for some of his skill? Also we see how Nara ends up in the Deadhouse, but Dassem has not yet turned his back on Hood, so what is the breaking point?



Tayschrenn: It will be interesting to see how fast Tay grows out of his standoffish arrogance. He received quite a jolt. Also I foresee a showdown against Kartool. Nice little reference to his finding out about K'rul, especially given his eventual destiny.

Surly and the Napans What I find extremely interesting is that the Napans at this stage defer to Surly. When will this change and how is very interesting, because once she breaks with Kellanved, they desert her. Also Urko wrestled a Hound and was relatively unscathed! Sweet little claw/talon tidbit at the end.

Tattersail: I really wish she had met Dancer or Kellanved before she left. She didn't really do much. I hope she makes a comeback.

Apart from all of this there were a lot of very cool moments in the book

We see a lot of Nedurian who was only mentioned in GotM

Ammanas and Cotillion are mentioned by Shadow demons!

I audibly cheered when Dujek introduced "Jack"

Hounds of Shadow have killed Azathenai? Yet Rake killed two Hounds without expending a lot of effort. Which says a lot about Rake.

I love how some of the character essentials got nailed down early - Surly's fighting style for instance.

What exactly is Nightchill searching for? Also Kallor is as murderous as ever. Also cool to see the Fisher who dies in NoK.

Now a couple of thoughts about the long game -

The Old Guard is so clear now - Surly and her cabal of Napans, the embryonic mage cadre with Tay and Nedurian, the strategic group of Dassem, Dujek and Jack, and of course Dancer who so often has to protect and restrain Kellanved. More to be added of course - the Talon children of Li Heng, Toc of the Seti, the rest of the mages.

The next book is probably going to be about the conquest of Nap and the refinding of the T'lan Imass.


Also I think I sense a very long game. Did Hood manipulate Dassem into going to Malaz island so he can team up with Kellanved and Dancer? Does the shadowy alliance of Hood and other Elder Gods already exist? Do they want the retaking of Shadow?

[nacht]

 Kellanveds_Herald, on 15 January 2018 - 01:30 AM, said:

I agree with SOOOOO much of what you said here. I know this book is supposed to be about Dancer, but I felt this book, even more so then Dancers Lament, REALLY shows the relationship that Dancer and Kellanved have with one another. I CAN'T WAIT until the next book. This was just such a fun ride! So many twists and turns!

Spoiler

Kellanved: I just wanna say I LOVEEEEE KELLANVED! His thirst for knowledge! His curiousity! His way of seeing things in the world that no one else sees. ADMIRAL?!!?!?! Then after he shows it, it just makes SOOO much sense. Of course, in true Kellanved fashion, he has to 'dress' it up a bit. I was DYING when they got into the Deadhouse and the guardian attacked them. Kellanved saying I have a plan and BOLTING for the door! Had me DYING!. Or his knowledge of the shells, not knowing what they are but knowing they have valuable and using that knowledge to then buy the Twisted! I just LOVE his audacity. Yeah, there is a gate, I'm going through it!

Him striking a deal with the HOUNDS?!?!? It makes SOOOOO much sense! The hounds being BORED?!?!? Just SOOOOO GENIUS! Did I go crazy here or did Kellanved use the future imperial warren to hold the Hounds in place? Kellanved learning that Shadow stretched everywhere and using that to his advantage. I LOVE how he chose his name!

Kellanved & Dancer's relationship growth: I LOVE how by the end of the book, Dancer just trusts Kellanved. You see it when Dancer wanted to fight Guran instead of Lee and Kellanved, just holds his arms gently, enough to still Dancer. You also see this trust when Dacner is getting dressed before they go to the hold and just trust Kellanved when he says he doesn't think it will come to a fight for Dancer.

Dassem's stand: OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!! I was in AWE watching this one man hold off column after column of soldiers. In that same moment, the sadness and wastefulness that he feels is occurring. It was just such an AWESOME scene to watch. The same could be said for Dassem and Shear's nightly training. GOD, I was giving a sly and approving nod at the end of their final training session.... Also, the LOVE and DISREGARD for his own safety when the caravan was being set upon and they moved towards his wagon...My heart was THUMPING that nothing was going to happen

Tayschreen: I will admit, before this book, he was one of my least favorite characters. It was TOUGH to get over Pale and MOI. Anywho, to see him be so dedicated to his craft. His willingness to push aside any risks in the search of knowledge of the warrens. His naive view of the importance of the political system in the D'Rek cult. I found myself sympathizing with him GREATLY. I found it AWESOME how he held off over 100 D'Rek priests and priestness as they attacked him. His PRIDE with not running from the problems that were presented to him! Just LOVEEEEEEEE ITTTT!!!

Surly - Ok, her fight with Geffen...OMGGGGGGGGG!!!! No knife!!! Just barehanded! That was AMAZING to see. It was AMAZING to see her how REAL her love was for them. It was AMAZING to see how much loyalty her fellow Napans had for her. She TOTALLY owns her name Surly!!!! She's just a BEAST! It's kinda crazy how different I felt about her after seeing her in this light!

Miscellaneous: That Cowl and Dancer fight THOUGH!?!?!?!?!? OMGGGGGGGG!!! That was GREAT! I LOVE how ICE has shown the growth in Dancer but also shown the randominess, skill, luck and everything in between when he's fighting Cowl or anyone from Heng.

Did anyone see Shrift coming though?? I TOTALLY thought Cowl had killed Amiss. You got me on that one ICE!!! Dassem being trained by HOOD?!?!?!??!? Did Hood send Dassem to Malaz to setup with Kellanved and Dancer? Also, can someone tell me what D'Rek things Tayschreen is going to do? The same for what K'Rul think Dancer and Kellanved are going to do? Also, did Kellanved SNEAK into the Deadhouse or did it make a 'deal' with them and let them in?

All I can say, this book has made me a MAJOR Kellanved fan. It started in Dancer's Lament, but was on FULL display here. I can already see how Tayschreen and Kellanved are going to be GREAT friends, joined by their curiosity of the world and everything in between it. Those two meeting in Shadow?

Also, I was a bit disappointed that we don't know what transformation that Kellanved received from opening his warren on Otataral Island. I also wish we knew how Kellanved and Dancer went from being eaten by the ground in Shadow to back in Malaz???

Can't WAIT til the next book. I've been holding off on reading the ICE books, but Dancer's Lament and now Deadhouse Landing have me SOOOOO excited to go read the other books. It's just a marvel to stand back and appreciate what these two men have created!!!!

 Andorion, on 15 November 2017 - 01:19 PM, said:

So, that was a wild wild ride.

I feel as if all the promises ICE made in Dancer's Lament really came to fruition in this book. I am completely and utterly hooked into this series. Frankly I think it should be extended further, or another trilogy commissioned.

Spoiler

Kellanved We finally see his magery truly unleashed. He is far more comfortable in switching through warrens, Shadow is now a deadly weapon in his hands, and he has tamed the hounds! Also that entire episode on Otataral Island is extremely interesting. The type of transformation this caused in him is not really enlarged upon but probably played a huge part in shaping his future skill, particularly his multifaceted nature which makes him so hard to pin down. Also his crafting of Meanas and Emurlahn by which he leashed the Hounds - that is easily High Mage level capability. Also loved how randomly he chose his name!!

Dancer: I loved how unknown to himself Dancer is already a legend due to events of Deadhouse Landing. And we see how deadly he already is - normal thugs can't even begin to touch him. And the Cowl-Dancer fight was mouth watering.

Dassem: In my opinion he is still the most enigmatic. Did he learn his sword skills from an Imass? Also Dassem's comment about being "inspired" does he draw on Hood for some of his skill? Also we see how Nara ends up in the Deadhouse, but Dassem has not yet turned his back on Hood, so what is the breaking point?



Tayschrenn: It will be interesting to see how fast Tay grows out of his standoffish arrogance. He received quite a jolt. Also I foresee a showdown against Kartool. Nice little reference to his finding out about K'rul, especially given his eventual destiny.

Surly and the Napans What I find extremely interesting is that the Napans at this stage defer to Surly. When will this change and how is very interesting, because once she breaks with Kellanved, they desert her. Also Urko wrestled a Hound and was relatively unscathed! Sweet little claw/talon tidbit at the end.

Tattersail: I really wish she had met Dancer or Kellanved before she left. She didn't really do much. I hope she makes a comeback.

Apart from all of this there were a lot of very cool moments in the book

We see a lot of Nedurian who was only mentioned in GotM

Ammanas and Cotillion are mentioned by Shadow demons!

I audibly cheered when Dujek introduced "Jack"

Hounds of Shadow have killed Azathenai? Yet Rake killed two Hounds without expending a lot of effort. Which says a lot about Rake.

I love how some of the character essentials got nailed down early - Surly's fighting style for instance.

What exactly is Nightchill searching for? Also Kallor is as murderous as ever. Also cool to see the Fisher who dies in NoK.

Now a couple of thoughts about the long game -

The Old Guard is so clear now - Surly and her cabal of Napans, the embryonic mage cadre with Tay and Nedurian, the strategic group of Dassem, Dujek and Jack, and of course Dancer who so often has to protect and restrain Kellanved. More to be added of course - the Talon children of Li Heng, Toc of the Seti, the rest of the mages.

The next book is probably going to be about the conquest of Nap and the refinding of the T'lan Imass.


Also I think I sense a very long game. Did Hood manipulate Dassem into going to Malaz island so he can team up with Kellanved and Dancer? Does the shadowy alliance of Hood and other Elder Gods already exist? Do they want the retaking of Shadow?

Kellanved is basically a Tanno Spiritiwalker among others . Just realized this.

[nacht]

For some reason I have a feeling that Dassem is a reborn ascendant and that he is connected to this description below in Midnight Tides

Quote

It seemed that the night would never end during the war with the Sar Trell. Before the appearance of our Great Emperor, Dessimbelackis, our legions were thrown back on the field of battle, again and again. Our sons and daughters wept blood on the green ground, and the wagon-drums of the enemy came forth in thunder. But no stains could hold upon our faith, and it shone ever fierce, ever defiant. We drew our ranks tall, overlapped shield polished and bright as the red sun, and the one among us who was needed, who was destined to grasp the splashed grip of the First Empire's truthful sword, gave his voice and his strength to lead us in answer to well-throated rumble of the Sar Trell warcries, th estone-tremble of their wagon-drums. Victory was destined, in the forge-lit eyes of He of the Seven Holy cities, the fever-charge of his will, and on that day, the Nineteenth in the Month of Leth-ara in the year of Arenbal, the Sar Trell army was broken on the plain south of Yath-Ghatan, and with their bones was laid the foundation, and with their skulls the cobbles of Empire's road.

[Gorefest]

 nacht, on 18 January 2018 - 08:55 AM, said:

For some reason I have a feeling that Dassem is a reborn ascendant and that he is connected to this description below in Midnight Tides

That refers to Dessimbelackis though, and he is the Deragoth and as such still sort of around. Can't be reborn if your predecessor isn't technically dead yet.

[Tattersail_]

Finished this this week. Just thoroughly entertaining.

[nacht]

From Assail, memories of Jute of Delass

Quote

Was this the Cartheron Crust, one-time companion to the old ogre emperor and his killer and usurper, Laseen? victor, with Nok, of the battle of Fenn Bay, where the combined Falaran navy was scattered in a rout? His grandfather had fought at that battle and told stories of the sorcery unleashed.

Looking forward to this battle in the next battle, and about the Jhistal cult.
I don;t think we learned much about Falar in the previous books.

[Gorefest]

We'll probably find that his grandfather was telling porkies and there was no battle of Fenn Bay, just two rowing boats attacking each other with oars and planks-with-a-splinter-in, after which Kellanved's familiar peed on the Falar rower's head and they stormed off in a sulk.

[nacht]

Should we remind ICE that at some point, Kellanved must meet up with the Moranth, and the first Malazan sapper comes out hiding (hopefully it is not Crump :-)

This post has been edited by nacht: 19 January 2018 - 06:48 PM

[Kremson]

 Andorion, on 15 November 2017 - 01:19 PM, said:

So, that was a wild wild ride.

I feel as if all the promises ICE made in Dancer's Lament really came to fruition in this book. I am completely and utterly hooked into this series. Frankly I think it should be extended further, or another trilogy commissioned.

Spoiler

Kellanved We finally see his magery truly unleashed. He is far more comfortable in switching through warrens, Shadow is now a deadly weapon in his hands, and he has tamed the hounds! Also that entire episode on Otataral Island is extremely interesting. The type of transformation this caused in him is not really enlarged upon but probably played a huge part in shaping his future skill, particularly his multifaceted nature which makes him so hard to pin down. Also his crafting of Meanas and Emurlahn by which he leashed the Hounds - that is easily High Mage level capability. Also loved how randomly he chose his name!!

Dancer: I loved how unknown to himself Dancer is already a legend due to events of Deadhouse Landing. And we see how deadly he already is - normal thugs can't even begin to touch him. And the Cowl-Dancer fight was mouth watering.

Dassem: In my opinion he is still the most enigmatic. Did he learn his sword skills from an Imass? Also Dassem's comment about being "inspired" does he draw on Hood for some of his skill? Also we see how Nara ends up in the Deadhouse, but Dassem has not yet turned his back on Hood, so what is the breaking point?



Tayschrenn: It will be interesting to see how fast Tay grows out of his standoffish arrogance. He received quite a jolt. Also I foresee a showdown against Kartool. Nice little reference to his finding out about K'rul, especially given his eventual destiny.

Surly and the Napans What I find extremely interesting is that the Napans at this stage defer to Surly. When will this change and how is very interesting, because once she breaks with Kellanved, they desert her. Also Urko wrestled a Hound and was relatively unscathed! Sweet little claw/talon tidbit at the end.

Tattersail: I really wish she had met Dancer or Kellanved before she left. She didn't really do much. I hope she makes a comeback.

Apart from all of this there were a lot of very cool moments in the book

We see a lot of Nedurian who was only mentioned in GotM

Ammanas and Cotillion are mentioned by Shadow demons!

I audibly cheered when Dujek introduced "Jack"

Hounds of Shadow have killed Azathenai? Yet Rake killed two Hounds without expending a lot of effort. Which says a lot about Rake.

I love how some of the character essentials got nailed down early - Surly's fighting style for instance.

What exactly is Nightchill searching for? Also Kallor is as murderous as ever. Also cool to see the Fisher who dies in NoK.

Now a couple of thoughts about the long game -

The Old Guard is so clear now - Surly and her cabal of Napans, the embryonic mage cadre with Tay and Nedurian, the strategic group of Dassem, Dujek and Jack, and of course Dancer who so often has to protect and restrain Kellanved. More to be added of course - the Talon children of Li Heng, Toc of the Seti, the rest of the mages.

The next book is probably going to be about the conquest of Nap and the refinding of the T'lan Imass.


Also I think I sense a very long game. Did Hood manipulate Dassem into going to Malaz island so he can team up with Kellanved and Dancer? Does the shadowy alliance of Hood and other Elder Gods already exist? Do they want the retaking of Shadow?

[Kremson]

So can anyone tell me who the Fisher is at the end of the book. I liked the whole story and dl and this we're my first ice books. Really good honestly but as has been pointed out there are some continuity issues.also like others I hope he continues past the third story. It would appear as if there are around 90 years of the empire or so before the Ascension that's place. Would also love to see both authors do something together.

This post has been edited by Kremson: 28 January 2018 - 08:06 PM

[worry]

Read Night of Knives and you'll figure out who he is.

[WhiskeyJohn]

 Nevyn, on 02 January 2018 - 04:39 PM, said:

And worth noting that when Nok and Gamet are talking with Tavore about the family, they actually mention Hawl among the losses of conquering Malaz.

So whatever weirdness goes on there, it seems to be by design. Although there are other inconsistensies.

I think this is part where the refer to most of old guard as dead (drowned). Toc Elder resurfaces and Hawl was trained by Cotillion himself, so did escape.