[Gorefest]

Trazar, on 20 November 2017 - 08:51 PM, said:

That leads me in....I am surprised we did not see Nok.....or Did we?

Haven't finished the book yet, but it is mentioned that Amaron and 'Noc' are still on Nap at one point to try and gauge the feasibility of revolt/financial support for Sureth/Surly. I assumed that that 'Noc' was Admiral Nok.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 22 November 2017 - 03:20 PM

[Trazar]

Gorefest, on 22 November 2017 - 03:20 PM, said:

Trazar, on 20 November 2017 - 08:51 PM, said:

That leads me in....I am surprised we did not see Nok.....or Did we?

Haven't finished the book yet, but it is mentioned that Amaron and 'Noc' are still on Nap at one point to try and gauge the feasibility of revolt/financial support for Sureth/Surly. I assumed that that 'Noc' was Admiral Nok.

Gorefest great catch. I totally missed that in searching. Makes sense.

[Mirthmonkey]

I finished the book last night. Loved it. The only bad part is having to wait for the next one.

I think I missed a critical detail or two though, so maybe someone here can help. It's two different but related questions.

Spoiler

1) How does Kellanved know, or even suspect, that the Deadhouse will let he and Dancer come and go?
2) Why does the Deadhouse let them come and go when anyone else with power who tries to enter is attacked and captured by it?

IIRC, when they first manage to enter the Deadhouse, Kellanved says something to Dancer about how he took them through many pieces of Shadow to the front door and no one else could have done it. Dancer is skeptical, thinking maybe the Deadhouse just decided to let them in. More critically though, it lets them leave. Then it lets them apparently come and go as they please, and later other people with them (Dassem and Tayschrenn).

[nacht]

Mirthmonkey, on 22 November 2017 - 05:57 PM, said:

I finished the book last night. Loved it. The only bad part is having to wait for the next one.

I think I missed a critical detail or two though, so maybe someone here can help. It's two different but related questions.

Spoiler

1) How does Kellanved know, or even suspect, that the Deadhouse will let he and Dancer come and go?
2) Why does the Deadhouse let them come and go when anyone else with power who tries to enter is attacked and captured by it?

IIRC, when they first manage to enter the Deadhouse, Kellanved says something to Dancer about how he took them through many pieces of Shadow to the front door and no one else could have done it. Dancer is skeptical, thinking maybe the Deadhouse just decided to let them in. More critically though, it lets them leave. Then it lets them apparently come and go as they please, and later other people with them (Dassem and Tayschrenn).

Spoiler

The Azath houses don't always attack, especially if you stay on the path, off the grounds, control your power and knock politely.
In addition, in Dancers Lament, I suspect Gothos and Krul have some somehow blessed Kellanved and Dancer.

[Andorion]

nacht, on 22 November 2017 - 07:13 PM, said:

Mirthmonkey, on 22 November 2017 - 05:57 PM, said:

I finished the book last night. Loved it. The only bad part is having to wait for the next one.

I think I missed a critical detail or two though, so maybe someone here can help. It's two different but related questions.

Spoiler

1) How does Kellanved know, or even suspect, that the Deadhouse will let he and Dancer come and go?
2) Why does the Deadhouse let them come and go when anyone else with power who tries to enter is attacked and captured by it?

IIRC, when they first manage to enter the Deadhouse, Kellanved says something to Dancer about how he took them through many pieces of Shadow to the front door and no one else could have done it. Dancer is skeptical, thinking maybe the Deadhouse just decided to let them in. More critically though, it lets them leave. Then it lets them apparently come and go as they please, and later other people with them (Dassem and Tayschrenn).

Spoiler

The Azath houses don't always attack, especially if you stay on the path, off the grounds, control your power and knock politely.
In addition, in Dancers Lament, I suspect Gothos and Krul have some somehow blessed Kellanved and Dancer.

Spoiler

I am pretty sure that there is a very long game going on centring around the Elder Gods and Kel+Dancer. Right from the DL prologue to how Hood manipulated Dassem to go to Malaz, the Elder Gods are pushing them down a particular path.

[Yawron]

Great! That was a fast read. I'm a fan.

Spoiler

The third warren Kellanved used used when trapping the hounds was the future imperial warren right?

[Brecher]

Yawron, on 23 November 2017 - 09:30 AM, said:

Great! That was a fast read. I'm a fan.

Spoiler

The third warren Kellanved used used when trapping the hounds was the future imperial warren right?

Spoiler

I think so, yes. Even though it feels weird, because it's a lifeless, ashen waste that I never associated with having any special power that people could draw on.

[worry]

Overall, liked this a lot. Would put it on par with the first book.

So...the details.

Spoiler

The Wound is 100% the Imperial Warren. Kinda wish Kallor would have sensed its breach somehow.

Tattersail should have read her deck! Has ICE ever done a deck-reading scene?

Yah, I assume Noc is Nok too. It might even be spelled Noc in another (ICE?) book, that rings a bell to me.

Tocaras --> Toc. Still a maybe to me.
But I will say this: Toc the Younger is the son of Toc the Elder and a Crust sister -- as revealed in Assail I think it was. So she's still not on the scene. Either way, Toc the Younger is at least half Napan already.

The death of Grinner and especially Hawl are both nuts to me, and ICE is gonna have to do something about that, at least for Hawl (Grinner is probably already famous for his skill -- though what an unceremonious death!). There IS a way, of course, involving Dassem and Hood that would explain Hawl's return to the living world, but who knows. I was kind of hoping she would be revealed as Lee's transport during the epilogue, like the first "faked death" of the crew for a secret mission, as a call-forward to the later ones, but it never materialized. Maybe "Hawl" is just the "Jennifer" of the Napan Isles, and there's tons of em?

Not that I expected one since she's apparently young enough that Fiddler saw her as a baby, but no mention of Dunsparrow. Who knows if she's Whiskeyjack's literal half-sister though? Like, Whiskeyjack is a nickname. Dunsparrow must be one too. I don't know if anything we ever learned about her is true, actually. Maybe I'm just mad that ICE punted on her and never picked it back up.

No Jhenna in the Deadhouse.

Did we learn anything about Edgewalker we didn't know before? This is, by far, the biggest tease of the series.

I pictured the K'chain Nahruk or whatever it is in Shadow, the one who was in the first book and did a cameo, flying in a tiny flying saucer the way Calvin & Hobbes did.

I think maybe sticking Koro in a hole "for 100 years" is sign enough there's more than a trilogy on the horizon. Who's he working for? Tattered wings, but never described as undead. Maybe TCG?

[Nevyn]

I enjoyed it

Spoiler

The interesting thing with this book is a lot of the way through, I was really feeling it was not as good as Dancer's Lament.

That story focused more on K and D who are a lot of fun, and more focus drove the narrative.

This one was introducing so many old guard and giving them rather significant POV that it felt stretched, and I was worrying it would be a filler book setting up next ones.

Then, the convergence at the end really sneaks up on you. Tayschrenn story goes 0 to 100. Dassem finishes his journey in a hurry. And ish gets real.

Things I liked or loved:

• Kellanved doing some awesome and not merely tricky mage stuff near the end.
• Dassem calmly dispatching Napans.
• Tayschrenn getting roped into working for Kellanved and then underwhelmed and bemused by what the job seems to entail.
• A pirate captain laughing that he gets to pick the champion when his choices are Dassem, Dancer, Surly, Urko, and Opal.

Things I was less wild about:

• While Kallor stabby stabby was fun, it felt a bit unnecessary in a relatively small book being pulled in many directions.
• "Jack" literally burning a bridge was a little on the nose.
• Dancer really didn't to do much in this book. A little thuggery early. The Cowl fight late. But mostly just follow Kellanved and complain.
• The payoff at the end was great, but ICE did tread the line finally bringing all these characters together, then immediately having K and D disappear. Their departures becoming a running theme and near joke is a fun setup, but it was frustrating for the reader early.

Things I am wondering about:

• Really wondering how the Crimson Guard is going to shake out. In book 1 Shimmer wasn't part of it yet. Cowl appears to be freelance right now, but it felt like at the end of the book he was already realizing consequences of the vow. And then we have the first claw being Opal, who was CG in the main books. Also, thought Opal was a mage, not an assassin. Maybe a different Opal?
• I also really need to re-read NoK for more perspective on the native Malaz talents.
• I didn't think Toc was Napan?
• A little cold water got poured on some fun Tayschrenn theories.

This post has been edited by Nevyn: 24 November 2017 - 03:06 PM

[Nevyn]

nacht, on 22 November 2017 - 07:13 PM, said:

Mirthmonkey, on 22 November 2017 - 05:57 PM, said:

I finished the book last night. Loved it. The only bad part is having to wait for the next one.

I think I missed a critical detail or two though, so maybe someone here can help. It's two different but related questions.

Spoiler

1) How does Kellanved know, or even suspect, that the Deadhouse will let he and Dancer come and go?
2) Why does the Deadhouse let them come and go when anyone else with power who tries to enter is attacked and captured by it?

IIRC, when they first manage to enter the Deadhouse, Kellanved says something to Dancer about how he took them through many pieces of Shadow to the front door and no one else could have done it. Dancer is skeptical, thinking maybe the Deadhouse just decided to let them in. More critically though, it lets them leave. Then it lets them apparently come and go as they please, and later other people with them (Dassem and Tayschrenn).

Spoiler

The Azath houses don't always attack, especially if you stay on the path, off the grounds, control your power and knock politely.
In addition, in Dancers Lament, I suspect Gothos and Krul have some somehow blessed Kellanved and Dancer.

Spoiler

This is where the Nightchill POV's come in.

They hint through her eyes at the Azath houses having their own will (she refers to them as cousins), and them being the ones pushing K and D forward. Namely, it is the houses which, with help from Gothos, give K the T'lan Imass 'compass' in the first book. And here they get allowed in and allowed to come and go.

Gothos may know what is going on but is not really driving it. K'rul has some involvement, but that seems to be more about Tay than KD.

Nightchill spends the books trying to figure out why the houses are using K and D

This post has been edited by Nevyn: 24 November 2017 - 03:02 PM

[Abyss]

Nevyn, on 24 November 2017 - 03:01 PM, said:

nacht, on 22 November 2017 - 07:13 PM, said:

Mirthmonkey, on 22 November 2017 - 05:57 PM, said:

I finished the book last night. Loved it. The only bad part is having to wait for the next one.

I think I missed a critical detail or two though, so maybe someone here can help. It's two different but related questions.

Spoiler

1) How does Kellanved know, or even suspect, that the Deadhouse will let he and Dancer come and go?
2) Why does the Deadhouse let them come and go when anyone else with power who tries to enter is attacked and captured by it?

IIRC, when they first manage to enter the Deadhouse, Kellanved says something to Dancer about how he took them through many pieces of Shadow to the front door and no one else could have done it. Dancer is skeptical, thinking maybe the Deadhouse just decided to let them in. More critically though, it lets them leave. Then it lets them apparently come and go as they please, and later other people with them (Dassem and Tayschrenn).

Spoiler

The Azath houses don't always attack, especially if you stay on the path, off the grounds, control your power and knock politely.
In addition, in Dancers Lament, I suspect Gothos and Krul have some somehow blessed Kellanved and Dancer.

Spoiler

This is where the Nightchill POV's come in.

They hint through her eyes at the Azath houses having their own will (she refers to them as cousins), and them being the ones pushing K and D forward. Namely, it is the houses which, with help from Gothos, give K the T'lan Imass 'compass' in the first book. And here they get allowed in and allowed to come and go.

Gothos may know what is going on but is not really driving it. K'rul has some involvement, but that seems to be more about Tay than KD.

Nightchill spends the books trying to figure out why the houses are using K and D

Kel had done some research on the Houses, but it's clear he's guessing much of the time.

Someone, i forget who, maybe Nightchill, makes the point that if you stick to the path and do not attempt to attack the House or take anything from it, it will not attack you.
As for access, back in DG the point was made that at times sheer desperation - or audacity - can work, and other times the House chooses whom to allow in.

[Abyss]

SPOILERS SPOILERS

UNBLOCKED SPOILERS

BELOW

YES UNBLOCKED 'FINISHED' IS RIGHT THERE IN THE THREAD TITLE

ALSO SURLY KICKS A KCHAIN CHEMALLE'S CHETESTICLES RIGHT OFF IN THIS BOOK

THERE YOURE FUCKING SPOILED

YOU HAD IT COMING

YOU WANT MORE SPOILERS? KEEP READING....

worry, on 24 November 2017 - 08:10 AM, said:

...The Wound is 100% the Imperial Warren. Kinda wish Kallor would have sensed its breach somehow.

Why? Kallor's never shown any sensitivity to the Impy warren before.
That said it's not entirely clear what he sensed that sent him on his journey... it seems likely it was Meanas 'awakening' because of Kel n Dancer's probes, but not entirely clear.
I am guessing he sense that and figured anything involving Shadow would draw Nightchill.

Quote

Tattersail should have read her deck! Has ICE ever done a deck-reading scene?

While she mentions owning a Deck, i goit the sense she is not nearly the adept she will be by GotM.

Quote

Yah, I assume Noc is Nok too. It might even be spelled Noc in another (ICE?) book, that rings a bell to me.

Tocaras --> Toc. Still a maybe to me.
But I will say this: Toc the Younger is the son of Toc the Elder and a Crust sister -- as revealed in Assail I think it was. So she's still not on the scene. Either way, Toc the Younger is at least half Napan already.

Quote

The death of Grinner and especially Hawl are both nuts to me, and ICE is gonna have to do something about that, at least for Hawl (Grinner is probably already famous for his skill -- though what an unceremonious death!). There IS a way, of course, involving Dassem and Hood that would explain Hawl's return to the living world, but who knows. I was kind of hoping she would be revealed as Lee's transport during the epilogue, like the first "faked death" of the crew for a secret mission, as a call-forward to the later ones, but it never materialized. Maybe "Hawl" is just the "Jennifer" of the Napan Isles, and there's tons of em?

Not that I expected one since she's apparently young enough that Fiddler saw her as a baby, but no mention of Dunsparrow. Who knows if she's Whiskeyjack's literal half-sister though? Like, Whiskeyjack is a nickname. Dunsparrow must be one too. I don't know if anything we ever learned about her is true, actually. Maybe I'm just mad that ICE punted on her and never picked it back up.

All plausible, but Hawl's death leaves me wondering how tight to the rest of the Old Guard history we think we know this will hold. I vaguely recalled somewhere a mention that Mock had been taken out by Dancer, but that didn't happen either.
Of course, all ICE needs to do is intro a new lady mage and have her take on the name Hawl and we're good.

Quote

No Jhenna in the Deadhouse.

Nope, but we have like 100 years to go for that to happen.

Quote

Did we learn anything about Edgewalker we didn't know before? This is, by far, the biggest tease of the series.

The notion that he was looking for a successor was new.

Quote

I pictured the K'chain Nahruk or whatever it is in Shadow, the one who was in the first book and did a cameo, flying in a tiny flying saucer the way Calvin & Hobbes did.

Same. ...heh...

Quote

I think maybe sticking Koro in a hole "for 100 years" is sign enough there's more than a trilogy on the horizon. Who's he working for? Tattered wings, but never described as undead. Maybe TCG?

I think we'll see him/it again before then.

Nevyn, on 24 November 2017 - 02:42 PM, said:

...
Things I liked or loved:

• Kellanved doing some awesome and not merely tricky mage stuff near the end.

yah, between the otataral exposure and then his merge into Shadow, coming out with control over Meanas, KE and apparently Chaos, Kel took a serious level in badass this book in an entirely Malazan-plausible way.

Quote

Dassem calmly dispatching Napans.

I enjoyed that. None of it was ever in doubt but it firmly establishes just how skilled Dassem is and why between then, Kell, Dancer and Das could forge an empire.

Quote

Tayschrenn getting roped into working for Kellanved and then underwhelmed and bemused by what the job seems to entail.

But at the same time amazed by Kel's Meanas illusions and access to the Deadhouse. Despite his obvious feelings about 'working for criminals', you could see Tays was wondering at everything else going on on the magic side.

Quote

A pirate captain laughing that he gets to pick the champion when his choices are Dassem, Dancer, Surly, Urko, and Opal.

Yeah, but we didn't know Leee was Opal at that point, even if it was fairly obvious what was about to happen. i REALLY liked how ICE wrote that knife fight. The bit at the end with them toe-to-toe was vivid awesome.

Quote

Things I was less wild about:

• While Kallor stabby stabby was fun, it felt a bit unnecessary in a relatively small book being pulled in many directions.

Yeah, i enjoyed everythig about Kallor's storyline except how it ended. Of course, futility is a thing with Kallor.

Quote

"Jack" literally burning a bridge was a little on the nose.

I still laughed.

Quote

Dancer really didn't to do much in this book. A little thuggery early. The Cowl fight late. But mostly just follow Kellanved and complain.

Protected Kell against the Hounds (i was sort of hoping he was going to have to try the 'bull-jump' trick); kept him alive through Otataral island and then took out the guards to get them out; took down a dozen thugs with some sticks; helped hold the bridge; fought Cowl. ...not quite 'didnt do much'. Maybe nothing on the scale of his major assassination at the end of LAMENT, but even so.

Quote

The payoff at the end was great, but ICE did tread the line finally bringing all these characters together, then immediately having K and D disappear. Their departures becoming a running theme and near joke is a fun setup, but it was frustrating for the reader early.

I took this as a key point... for Kel the budding Empire is merely a tool towards the bigger jump. The ongoing runs into the warrens will ultimately be both problem and solution.

Quote

Things I am wondering about:

• Really wondering how the Crimson Guard is going to shake out. In book 1 Shimmer wasn't part of it yet. Cowl appears to be freelance right now, but it felt like at the end of the book he was already realizing consequences of the vow. And then we have the first claw being Opal, who was CG in the main books. Also, thought Opal was a mage, not an assassin. Maybe a different Opal?

I don't the Vow has happened yet. Cowl was still alive because he was a mage and a badass, but not Avowed, yet

I'm blanking... Wasn't there another Opal in NoK who was one of the Claw who tried to take down Dassem and Ferrule in the tent at Yghatan?

Quote

A little cold water got poured on some fun Tayschrenn theories.

Which? Given his mysterious origin - being found by the Demidrek on the streets of Kartool as a child with no memory of how he got there - i would say most things are still open.

[Nevyn]

Abyss, on 27 November 2017 - 03:09 PM, said:

I'm blanking... Wasn't there another Opal in NoK who was one of the Claw who tried to take down Dassem and Ferrule in the tent at Yghatan?

According to wiki, that was Jade. Wrong rock.

Quote

Yeah, i enjoyed everythig about Kallor's storyline except how it ended. Of course, futility is a thing with Kallor.

Actually, I thought the whole storyline could go. Not that it wasn't fun, just that the book had a lot of fun storylines and all were crying out for more time and attention.


The Kallor stuff seems fun but gratuitous, as it does not appear to have advanced any of the story.

Quote

Protected Kell against the Hounds (i was sort of hoping he was going to have to try the 'bull-jump' trick); kept him alive through Otataral island and then took out the guards to get them out; took down a dozen thugs with some sticks; helped hold the bridge; fought Cowl. ...not quite 'didnt do much'. Maybe nothing on the scale of his major assassination at the end of LAMENT, but even so.

Protecting against hounds was mainly holding knives up and planning last stands only to get shifted away just in time.


For every time Dancer did something cool, there were 3 times it looked like he'd have to and then nothing happened. I mean, Dancer is meant to end up with this legendary reputation, but no one saw him fight Cowl or knows who that is. Because of the Cowl fight he barely had a role vs the Napans. And even the Otataral stuff was low level thugs, and unwitnessed by the old guard.


Be honest, did you really picture the Kell and Dancer takeover of Malaz to not feature Dancer killing anybody?

Quote

I don't the Vow has happened yet. Cowl was still alive because he was a mage and a badass, but not Avowed, yet

I agree. But the way that had him waking up and laughing seemed to me to be him having some sort of realization he was undead (especially given how he behaves with Shimmer through the other books). But it could be just a crazy guy laughing at being alive I guess.

Quote

Which? Given his mysterious origin - being found by the Demidrek on the streets of Kartool as a child with no memory of how he got there - i would say most things are still open.

Well, the theories aren't impossible. But if they have to play memory games where he does not know who he was, and reverted to childhood, and later remembers enough to start using a variant of his old name as an alias, that would feel kinda cheap anyway.

This post has been edited by Nevyn: 27 November 2017 - 03:56 PM

[One Eye]

You would think he would be at least a little sensitivity to the Imp. Warren since it was he old Empire. i agree with you 100% Abyss that he sensed the convergence happening on Malaz cause of Meanas, but ive always wondered why he never goes into/ after the Imp. Warren

[Nevyn]

I got the sense that he sensed Nightchill, not Meanas, but would have to re-read.

He seems completely disinterested in anything but revenge on her.

[One Eye]

Was wondering if Path to Ascendacy Still a trilogy? i feel like there is still so much to cover( like 100 years or so) before they ascend and unless there is a huge time jump in Book 3 i don't see how it can be finished.( i loved these 2 books and i wouldn't mind 5 more covering this period with the Old Guard)

This post has been edited by One Eye: 27 November 2017 - 03:50 PM

[Nevyn]

One Eye, on 27 November 2017 - 03:50 PM, said:

Was wondering if Path to Ascendacy Still a trilogy? i feel like there is still so much to cover( like 100 years or so) before they ascend and unless there is a huge time jump in Book 3 i don't see how it can be finished.( i loved these 2 books and i wouldn't mind 5 more covering this period with the Old Guard)

They ascend in NoK.

I very much doubt the series is going right up to that moment. This is more the formation of the empire, plus the hints as to how K and D started down the road to planning to take over Shadow.

I'd expect book 3 to culminate in a return to Li Heng with the Imass. Getting a sense of the tensions among the rising empire, the inception of the Crimson Guard, and how the Azath and other big players fit in.

I mean, he could draw out the series as much as he wants, but I very much doubt we'll see the start of the Genabackis campaign, nor the slaughter at Aren or the Bridgeburners pursuit into Raraku. I think we'll see conquest of QT, the evolution of the armies and the Claw and Talon, the start of the Imass, and then probably a lot more of K and D taking off to explore.

[One Eye]

Nevyn, on 27 November 2017 - 04:09 PM, said:

One Eye, on 27 November 2017 - 03:50 PM, said:

Was wondering if Path to Ascendacy Still a trilogy? i feel like there is still so much to cover( like 100 years or so) before they ascend and unless there is a huge time jump in Book 3 i don't see how it can be finished.( i loved these 2 books and i wouldn't mind 5 more covering this period with the Old Guard)

They ascend in NoK.

I very much doubt the series is going right up to that moment. This is more the formation of the empire, plus the hints as to how K and D started down the road to planning to take over Shadow.

I'd expect book 3 to culminate in a return to Li Heng with the Imass. Getting a sense of the tensions among the rising empire, the inception of the Crimson Guard, and how the Azath and other big players fit in.

I mean, he could draw out the series as much as he wants, but I very much doubt we'll see the start of the Genabackis campaign, nor the slaughter at Aren or the Bridgeburners pursuit into Raraku. I think we'll see conquest of QT, the evolution of the armies and the Claw and Talon, the start of the Imass, and then probably a lot more of K and D taking off to explore.

Yep we saw the ascension in NoK. I guess in my heart I figured Wed never get to see all the Malazan conquest stuff....just would be awesome to see alot of it in books

This post has been edited by One Eye: 27 November 2017 - 04:58 PM

[Abyss]

Nevyn, on 27 November 2017 - 03:35 PM, said:

Abyss, on 27 November 2017 - 03:09 PM, said:

I'm blanking... Wasn't there another Opal in NoK who was one of the Claw who tried to take down Dassem and Ferrule in the tent at Yghatan?

According to wiki, that was Jade. Wrong rock.

Oh right... k, tnx. Stoopid rocks....

Quote

Quote

Yeah, i enjoyed everythig about Kallor's storyline except how it ended. Of course, futility is a thing with Kallor.

Actually, I thought the whole storyline could go. Not that it wasn't fun, just that the book had a lot of fun storylines and all were crying out for more time and attention.

The Kallor stuff seems fun but gratuitous, as it does not appear to have advanced any of the story.

Same could be said of Nightchill's involvement, but asides to the main story are a pretty common part of these books.

Quote

Quote

Protected Kell against the Hounds (i was sort of hoping he was going to have to try the 'bull-jump' trick); kept him alive through Otataral island and then took out the guards to get them out; took down a dozen thugs with some sticks; helped hold the bridge; fought Cowl. ...not quite 'didnt do much'. Maybe nothing on the scale of his major assassination at the end of LAMENT, but even so.

Protecting against hounds was mainly holding knives up and planning last stands only to get shifted away just in time.

For every time Dancer did something cool, there were 3 times it looked like he'd have to and then nothing happened. I mean, Dancer is meant to end up with this legendary reputation, but no one saw him fight Cowl or knows who that is. Because of the Cowl fight he barely had a role vs the Napans. And even the Otataral stuff was low level thugs, and unwitnessed by the old guard.

Be honest, did you really picture the Kell and Dancer takeover of Malaz to not feature Dancer killing anybody?

I did not picture it being simple as 'Kel n Dancer show up, stab Mock, take over', and i enjoyed how the rest of the Old Guard were actually the main actors in most of it, but ultimately Kellanved still drove the show.
A big part of the two books has been Dancer finding different uses for his superior assassin skills rather than just sneaking around murdering people.

Quote

Quote

I don't the Vow has happened yet. Cowl was still alive because he was a mage and a badass, but not Avowed, yet

I agree. But the way that had him waking up and laughing seemed to me to be him having some sort of realization he was undead (especially given how he behaves with Shimmer through the other books). But it could be just a crazy guy laughing at being alive I guess.

I'd go with crazy.

Quote

Quote

Which? Given his mysterious origin - being found by the Demidrek on the streets of Kartool as a child with no memory of how he got there - i would say most things are still open.

Well, the theories aren't impossible. But if they have to play memory games where he does not know who he was, and reverted to childhood, and later remembers enough to start using a variant of his old name as an alias, that would feel kinda cheap anyway.

Hard to say... given his eventual exposure to the Vitr and ascension, i took it more as foreshadowing.

Nevyn, on 27 November 2017 - 03:42 PM, said:

I got the sense that he sensed Nightchill, not Meanas, but would have to re-read.

He seems completely disinterested in anything but revenge on her.

I still go with him sensing the warren and knowing it would draw her. He's shown sensitivity to magic elsewhere, but not to individuals.

Nevyn, on 27 November 2017 - 04:09 PM, said:

One Eye, on 27 November 2017 - 03:50 PM, said:

Was wondering if Path to Ascendacy Still a trilogy? i feel like there is still so much to cover( like 100 years or so) before they ascend and unless there is a huge time jump in Book 3 i don't see how it can be finished.( i loved these 2 books and i wouldn't mind 5 more covering this period with the Old Guard)

They ascend in NoK.

I very much doubt the series is going right up to that moment. This is more the formation of the empire, plus the hints as to how K and D started down the road to planning to take over Shadow.

I'd expect book 3 to culminate in a return to Li Heng with the Imass. Getting a sense of the tensions among the rising empire, the inception of the Crimson Guard, and how the Azath and other big players fit in.

I mean, he could draw out the series as much as he wants, but I very much doubt we'll see the start of the Genabackis campaign, nor the slaughter at Aren or the Bridgeburners pursuit into Raraku. I think we'll see conquest of QT, the evolution of the armies and the Claw and Talon, the start of the Imass, and then probably a lot more of K and D taking off to explore.

There is certainly enough to work with... if PtA is just the buildup, there is plenty of mid-Empire stuff for ICE to work with if he cares to... Nap, Unta, Seven Cities round one, Dancer and Kell's further trips through the warrens and Azath, the early Bridgeburner missions (Mott Wood!), Graymane's Korelri campaign, Dancer building the Talon, Surly building the Claw, the sorcery clash at Kartool, early contact and trade with the Moranth leading to the use of munitions, the Wickan wars...

[Nevyn]

Abyss, on 27 November 2017 - 04:22 PM, said:

Same could be said of Nightchill's involvement, but asides to the main story are a pretty common part of these books.

Nightchill is more than an aside, though.

Because a fascinating part of this series is showing the plotting of other powers, including the Azath houses themselves, into the formation of the empire, what becomes of Shadow, and by extension, all that happens in the main series. Nightchill is our window into that, through both her POV and her conversations with other ascendants.

And because Nightchill at some point becomes an imperial High Mage. They almost have to tie her in. Kallor only needs a tie in if the story is going to extend all the way to him signing on with Brood.