Malazan Empire: Weinstein Celebrity Dead Pool - Malazan Empire

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Weinstein Celebrity Dead Pool

#861 User is offline   Cause 

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Posted 25 June 2020 - 03:14 PM

So fantasy authors get more fan girls at conventions than I realize? I suppose fame corrupts.

Never really had fanboy tendencies but I suppose I could see how a few positive interactions with fawning fans could lead you to see it as your due and which in turn could lead to them crossing the line.

I remember once a friend of a friend won a competition to have dinner with some band. She was supposed to invite a few people. She didnít have enough people. So she invited my friend, my friend invited me. Except for the winner herself And one or two of her closest friends we didnít really know or care about the band. We were there to make up the numbers for dinner. They were famous but not necessarily mainstream. I remember how disappointed the band was that many of us were not fawning over them. Game and the attention it brings I think can be like a drug to some people.
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#862 User is online   QuickTidal 

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Posted 25 June 2020 - 03:17 PM

View PostCyphon, on 25 June 2020 - 02:10 PM, said:

https://twitter.com/...9735062528?s=19

Mark Lawrence now being named too.


I stared seeing him mentioned and I was like...oh no!... It's also, we should be clear, not REALLY fodder for this thread as none of it is sexual that I can see...but seeing as it's surfaced amongst all the other bad actor names today in the SFF industry, it's worth talking about it as a lot of us read his work.

Also, for some further reference beyond that, here are some tweet screenshots that seem to refer to Kel in Schwab's Shades of Magic series in what can only be called a derogatory way. Which is strictly an "optics" thing...but still.

It should also not escape attention that the FIRST other author who asks Schwab what book she's talking about in her 2014 "I didn't like this book and people came at me for it" tweet thread was...Sam Sykes.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 25 June 2020 - 04:26 PM

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#863 User is online   Briar King 

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Posted 25 June 2020 - 04:29 PM

My god we will all be forced into being fucking sheep one day soon.
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#864 User is offline   Cause 

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Posted 25 June 2020 - 04:35 PM

Perhaps off topic as you say because he is not accused of sexual harassment however after going through that thread the primary complaint seems to be that Mark Lawrence describes rape in his books. As early as our 19!

The synopsis of prince of thorns reads:
When he was nine, he watched as his mother and brother were killed before him. By the time he was thirteen, he was the leader of a band of bloodthirsty thugs. By fifteen, he intends to be king...

Itís time for Prince Honorous Jorg Ancrath to return to the castle he turned his back on, to take whatís rightfully his. Since the day he hung pinned on the thorns of a briar patch and watched Count Renarís men slaughter his mother and young brother, Jorg has been driven to vent his rage. Life and death are no more than a game to himóand he has nothing left to lose.

But treachery awaits him in his fatherís castle. Treachery and dark magic. No matter how fierce his will, can one young man conquer enemies with power beyond his imagining?


Saying you personally find the book distasteful or at least not to your taste is fine. Itís not proper literary criticism to say that rape makes it a bad book.

Canít speak to if he set his fans on her since after scrolling down a ways still didnít see the screenshots.
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#865 User is online   QuickTidal 

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Posted 25 June 2020 - 04:53 PM

View PostCause, on 25 June 2020 - 04:35 PM, said:

Perhaps off topic as you say because he is not accused of sexual harassment however after going through that thread the primary complaint seems to be that Mark Lawrence describes rape in his books. As early as our 19!

Saying you personally find the book distasteful or at least not to your taste is fine. Itís not proper literary criticism to say that rape makes it a bad book.

Canít speak to if he set his fans on her since after scrolling down a ways still didnít see the screenshots.


Actually it seems like the problem isn't what his books are about and how they are critiqued, but what Schwab says occurred to her when she mentioned out loud she didn't like it and the people who came at her for it, and how Lawrence supposedly retweeting her negative review, seems to have opened the floodgates for that to occur? That's what I got from it anyways. And then after that I believe came the comments about Kel being a "cross dressing pirate"? I don't know the timeline of events.

I think the conversation to be had here is whether it's a good idea for an author to retweet a bad review of their work (by another author in this case too) to his/her followers on a social medium like twitter (known to be a pretty rough cesspool on the best of days) due to the fact that some of those followers won't take it well and would certainly go after the tweeter in question. Is it therefore the responsibility of the Author to make sure they don't do that by either not retweeting the negativity to their fanbase at all, or specifying that she's entitled to that view of the book so let her be? Like why engage with the person who made a negative review at all?

At least that's what I'm getting from it. I can't speak to it more than that...other than to say I like both these authors and both their works so I'm trying to find what the middle ground is here and navigating that as a reader of their work or not going forward.
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#866 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 25 June 2020 - 05:01 PM

I'm confused (genuinely) as to what has happened here.

Someone complained to Mark about a rape scene in the book and he syked superman's on them or someone complained about a rape scene and mark proceeded to mock them?

I've scrolled through the Twitter thread and looked at the screenshots and I'm still genuinely unsure in what is trying to be conveyed
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#867 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 25 June 2020 - 05:01 PM

Crosspost, and superman- super fan
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#868 User is online   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

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Posted 25 June 2020 - 05:09 PM

View PostQuickTidal, on 25 June 2020 - 04:53 PM, said:

View PostCause, on 25 June 2020 - 04:35 PM, said:

Perhaps off topic as you say because he is not accused of sexual harassment however after going through that thread the primary complaint seems to be that Mark Lawrence describes rape in his books. As early as our 19!

Saying you personally find the book distasteful or at least not to your taste is fine. It's not proper literary criticism to say that rape makes it a bad book.

Can't speak to if he set his fans on her since after scrolling down a ways still didn't see the screenshots.


Actually it seems like the problem isn't what his books are about and how they are critiqued, but what Schwab says occurred to her when she mentioned out loud she didn't like it and the people who came at her for it, and how Lawrence supposedly retweeting her negative review, seems to have opened the floodgates for that to occur? That's what I got from it anyways. And then after that I believe came the comments about Kel being a "cross dressing pirate"? I don't know the timeline of events.

I think the conversation to be had here is whether it's a good idea for an author to retweet a bad review of their work (by another author in this case too) to his/her followers on a social medium like twitter (known to be a pretty rough cesspool on the best of days) due to the fact that some of those followers won't take it well and would certainly go after the tweeter in question. Is it therefore the responsibility of the Author to make sure they don't do that by either not retweeting the negativity to their fanbase at all, or specifying that she's entitled to that view of the book so let her be? Like why engage with the person who made a negative review at all?

At least that's what I'm getting from it. I can't speak to it more than that...other than to say I like both these authors and both their works so I'm trying to find what the middle ground is here and navigating that as a reader of their work or not going forward.


When I first glanced at the Twitter thread, I thought this was referring to him: 'When I was 22, I asked a fellow male author if they wanted to trade manuscripts. He told me he'd send me his, but he didn't want mine because "pretty girls were meant for pictures" instead. That was my only value to him. His art. My body.'

In context, it's not.

I generally don't care (much) if authors are nice to people on the internet.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 25 June 2020 - 05:10 PM

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#869 User is online   QuickTidal 

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Posted 25 June 2020 - 05:26 PM

Like I said, I'm not trying to take a side in this one, but to understand the issue from all angles.

Though I'm not a fan of anything that incites online bullying, which is why this seemed to stand out to me as it seems to be what's at play here.
"When the last tree has fallen, and the rivers are poisoned, you cannot eat money, oh no." ~Aurora
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#870 User is offline   Cause 

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Posted 25 June 2020 - 06:02 PM

I dont think was refering to her as a cross dressing pirate (Dont know the author or the books so dont know if their is deep meaning hear). I think he was saying their criticism was that his work was not progressive enough and nothing he could write would satisfy that complaint. Which i think given what I have sometimes seen is a fair point in regards to these things.

The discussions have become so polarizing. Note that the poster fo the screenshots refers to the people asking for them as asshats for not just taking her word for it.

This post has been edited by Cause: 25 June 2020 - 06:03 PM

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#871 User is online   QuickTidal 

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Posted 25 June 2020 - 06:07 PM

Yes, I should be clear again I'm not taking sides here (I have everything that Lawrence has ever written, and I have only 2 Schwab books; 1 of which I haven't yet read), and I really can't find enough about Lawrence to make any judgements one way or the other...

The "cross dressing pirate" thing just rubbed me a bit wrong is all. I wasn't about to get rid of his books for it.

And oh man, and here's some sauce for the goddamn fire with Schwab being accused of doing exactly what she is accusing Mark of doing herself.


"When the last tree has fallen, and the rivers are poisoned, you cannot eat money, oh no." ~Aurora
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#872 User is offline   Cyphon 

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Posted 25 June 2020 - 06:27 PM

https://twitter.com/...6530194432?s=19

This isn't pleasant reading for Myke Cole.
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#873 User is offline   Cause 

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Posted 25 June 2020 - 06:31 PM

These peoples minds donít work right. The tweet where she set off her followers on a queer brown girl was literally just saying that in a fantasy book set 200 hundred years in the past relationships between 17 and 20 year olds are not that wierd.

I mean if nutjobs than choose to attack her based on that Iím not sure we can blame the author and if the girl in question happens to be brown and queer that seems irrelevant to the original post.
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#874 User is offline   Morgoth 

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Posted 25 June 2020 - 06:32 PM

View PostCyphon, on 25 June 2020 - 06:27 PM, said:

https://twitter.com/...6530194432?s=19

This isn't pleasant reading for Myke Cole.


Uuugh. I quite enjoyed his twitter, and his banter with Sykes.
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#875 User is online   QuickTidal 

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Posted 25 June 2020 - 06:34 PM

View PostCyphon, on 25 June 2020 - 06:27 PM, said:

https://twitter.com/...6530194432?s=19

This isn't pleasant reading for Myke Cole.


Yeah, I caught that too, and this doesn't just make the stuff he apologized for in 2018 seem worse, it actively paints him as a drunken, sexist, racist, transphobic jerk who has not learned anything in his regular ass life.

And it looks like he noped off twitter a few minutes ago too as a result.
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#876 User is offline   Cause 

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Posted 25 June 2020 - 06:34 PM

I confess I have never heard of Myke cole or the other one. Have they written anything particularly notable?
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#877 User is online   QuickTidal 

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Posted 25 June 2020 - 06:44 PM

View PostCause, on 25 June 2020 - 06:31 PM, said:

These peoples minds donít work right. The tweet where she set off her followers on a queer brown girl was literally just saying that in a fantasy book set 200 hundred years in the past relationships between 17 and 20 year olds are not that wierd.

I mean if nutjobs than choose to attack her based on that Iím not sure we can blame the author and if the girl in question happens to be brown and queer that seems irrelevant to the original post.


Right, but I think the point is that Mark didn't "Send" his followers after her either. From what I can glean, he retweeted her tweet about PoT to them, and they did the nasty stuff on their own. We can argue about the optics of that retweeting all day, but if she wants him held responsible for the subsequent behaviour of those followers, then she must follow suit when her followers descend on someone. I think they are just pointing out the hypocrisy of it calling it out.

There are also others on that thread who say that they've have poor interactions with her at Cons...
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#878 User is online   QuickTidal 

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Posted 25 June 2020 - 06:47 PM

View PostCause, on 25 June 2020 - 06:34 PM, said:

I confess I have never heard of Myke cole or the other one. Have they written anything particularly notable?


Cole's first books were military urban fantasy I think (I only read one of them)...they were fine, not brilliant. They featured a POC lead (which makes the racism Kate accuses him of sting worse). I think he wrote more epic fantasy after that but I never read it.

Sam Sykes writes grim Fantasy with a bunch of humour, and is also notably the son of Outlander series author Diana Gabaldon. I've read one Sykes book. It was fine. Nothing special.
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#879 User is offline   Cyphon 

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Posted 25 June 2020 - 06:50 PM

View PostCause, on 25 June 2020 - 06:34 PM, said:

I confess I have never heard of Myke cole or the other one. Have they written anything particularly notable?


I have one of Sykes books but unread.

Myke Cole's stuff appeared on radar a few times but until his latest book nothing intriguing enough to make me go for it.

I got the impression they were fledgling writers who were improving their art. I know them more from being engaging, funny and reasonable human beings on twitter. Sadly it seems their demons have won out in the past.

This post has been edited by Cyphon: 25 June 2020 - 06:51 PM

Para todos todo, para nosotros nada.

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#880 User is offline   Primateus 

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Posted 25 June 2020 - 06:53 PM

View PostCause, on 25 June 2020 - 06:34 PM, said:

I confess I have never heard of Myke cole or the other one. Have they written anything particularly notable?


Cole has written some fair to decent urban fantasy novels. Nothing special at all, but by no means unreadable. I am not familiar with the other one.
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