[QuickTidal]

Tiste Simeon, on 18 September 2023 - 05:51 PM, said:

Like voting changes anything over here, QT!

So the same as over here. Country run by Pervy old Boomers who don't like the status quo changed.

Tiste Simeon, on 18 September 2023 - 05:51 PM, said:

I'm surprised and a little upset by Fielding, he's been a long time favourite of mine, I was a student at the right time for the Mighty Boosh to come out.

Apparently the Pixie Geldof thing with him was an open secret in your papers?....never quite confirmed but there are tonnes of photos of them together ect...and Brand was dating Peaches Geldof...and apparently this is why Bob Geldof called Brand a C*** at some award show where he presented him an award in like '06?

[QuickTidal]

Oh and Richard Aoyade....fuck me this one hurts...has a quote on the cover of the 'King of Transphobes' Graham Linehan's new "I was cancelled woe is me" book calling it "brilliant and brave"...so....yeah....I could understand if this was a long time ago, but people know who Linehan is now and have done for a long time...the guy lost his whole family due to his transphobia and his 70+ tweets per day attacking everyone over it....How Aoyade could even come close to endorsing the mans work...just dude. Hurts.

full quote:

'Graham Linehan has long been one of my favourite writers – and this book shows that his brilliance in prose is the equal to his brilliance as a screenwriter. It unfolds with the urgency of a Sam Fuller film: that of a man who has been through something that few have experienced but has managed to return, undaunted, to tell us the tale’

FFS, the book is about how the guy threw his whole ass life away personally and professionally (I mean, the guy had like three hit comedy shows and now he has nothing) and wonders why he was cancelled...like we are talking Linehan was initially kicked off twitter for threatening to kill three female comedians, and most recently called David Tennant (a trans ally with a non-binary kid) a Pedo for wearing a badge that reads "You are safe with me"...he's a virulent piece of work who flushed his whole life down the tubes for hatred (kids and wife won't associate within)...so for Aoyade to write an endorsement where he basically makes it seem like some noble misunderstood quest?

Bruv. I can't.

And after having very PUBLIC twitter fights with his equally virulent POS brother-in-law Laurence fox....you'd think that he'd know better.

Anyways, hopefully Chris O'Dowd, and Katharine Parkinson are good people?

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 18 September 2023 - 06:51 PM

[Tiste Simeon]

Did not know Aoyade and Fox were related - Laurence Fox is the worst.

[polishgenius]

It should be noted that (1) while they were seen together in public it was never confirmed they were dating and Pixie Geldof later claimed it was a joke and (2) being Brand's mate is a bad look but should have known and did know are two different things. Basically I'd wait until actual specific allegations come out about Fielding before really losing sleep over it, because to date the sum of the matter seems to be 'may or may not have dated a 16 year old, as reported by tabloids', which is creepy but not nearly on the level of the allegations against Brand. It wouldn't be shocking if there was something given that they are mates, but even as far as whispers on the grapevine go it's a much sketchier case than others.


Walliams is a bit different because there have apparently been more concrete in-industry stories of the 'don't share a dressing room with him' type about him for years.



I did think Aoyade was far better than to give a quote to that fucking tosser Linehan but I'm not quite sure it's one for an abusers thread tbh.

[Maark Abbott]

QuickTidal, on 18 September 2023 - 05:18 PM, said:

Also, I only just found out through all this that the age of consent in the UK is INEXPLICABLY 16...WTF is wrong with you guys over there man? That's fucked up. Can you not vote to change that?

Do you want angry chavs yelling 'brap' at you? Because raising the AOC is how you have angry chavs yelling 'brap' at you.

I dunno it's just kind of a normal thing here. I think there's another adjacent law that raises it if one party is over a certain age but that might be an urban myth.

Aoyade can get in the bin. He has given his support to a massive fucking bigot and that's kind of a bottom line.

[polishgenius]

Maark Abbott, on 19 September 2023 - 07:04 AM, said:

I dunno it's just kind of a normal thing here. I think there's another adjacent law that raises it if one party is over a certain age but that might be an urban myth.

There's a law that over-18-year-olds can't sleep with under-18-year-olds if they hold a 'position of trust' over them. Essentially, teachers can't fuck sixth-formers. I thought there was a law that extended that for a few years after the age of 18 in that situation (so teachers can't start fucking their 18 year old students the moment they leave school) but it seems that part was an urban myth.



Anyway, the age of consent is 16 in almost all of Europe, and lower than that in more places than it's older. The intent basically seems to be to recognise that teenagers fuck and shouldn't be punished by law for that. Though the existence of laws to stop older people taking advantage of those teenagers does vary wildly.

[Tiste Simeon]

It gets especially tricky when you've got a 16 year old and 15 year old I'm a relationship, bumping uglies, and technically one of them is committing child sex offences.

I did loads of work as part of a safeguarding/really intervention team when I was a police officer. Sexual exploitation of children is rife and so much of it can be - if not completely - prevented by education and support. But the government doesn't want to putoney into that.

Honestly my work on OCAIT (Online Child Abuse Investigation Team) and the CSE team were some of the toughest and yet most rewarding parts of that job, which had so few of them overall. But yeah it's a subject I'm quite passionate about. I don't think raising the minimum age of consent is necessarily the right way to go.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Not that surprising in retrospect:

Quote

[Sound of Freedom right-wing child sex trafficking film 'real-life' inspiration] Tim Ballard's Departure From Operation Underground Railroad Followed Sexual Misconduct Investigation

[...] the self-styled anti-slavery activist, who appears to be preparing for a Senate run, invited women to act as his "wife" on undercover overseas missions ostensibly aimed at rescuing victims of sex trafficking. He would then allegedly coerce those women into sharing a bed or showering together, claiming that it was necessary to fool traffickers. [...] sent at least one woman a photo of himself in his underwear, festooned with fake tattoos, and to have asked another "how far she was willing to go," in the words of a source, to save children. These sources requested anonymity because they fear retaliation.

[...] "O.U.R. is dedicated to combatting sexual abuse, and does not tolerate sexual harassment or discrimination by anyone in its organization,"

Tim Ballard's Departure From Operation Underground Railroad Followed Sexual Misconduct Investigation (vice.com)

This next one is a bit surprising, but probably shouldn't be. He's a comedian after all, and they're all monsters, right? (Who could laugh and not be a monster in a world like this?... Aside from Trump, that sweet angelic baby / forged to wet-nurse the tree of Liberty....)

Includes abuse and gender harassment but apparently no sexual harassment at least:

Quote

renowned Indian American comedian Hasan Minhaj[...] considered the front-runner to be the next host of The Daily Show. [...] Minhaj, as he himself confessed to Malone, has bent the truth—to the point of just lying, some might say—when recounting personal stories in his stand-up comedy. The second, Malone reports, relates to allegations that Minhaj had fostered a hostile workplace for staffers of his former Netflix talk show, the critically acclaimed Patriot Act. The article paints a picture of Minhaj as a teller of "emotional truths," referring to his habit of building off random real-world incidents to craft elaborate yarns of facing persecution as a brown Muslim American, and then pitching these as confessions that resonated with countless members of the South Asian diaspora. Meanwhile, women of color who worked on his show (including South Asian American women) allegedly suffered while helping build his platform as a comedic truth-teller. When Patriot Act was canceled in 2020, some of its former staffers publicly shared their mixed feelings on having made such a unique show—an Indian American–hosted talk show centered around confrontational interviews and taboo topics like the murder of Jamal Khashoggi—while allegedly facing mistreatment behind the scenes. That alleged mistreatment, Malone reports, included gender-based workplace discrimination, harassment, and retaliation, to the point where three women had threatened to sue Patriot Act.

[...] he had centered a [...] stand-up special around a false story regarding a white high-school classmate who had rejected him, consigning her to years of doxing and digital harassment from his fans. [...]

[...] Whether tacitly or explicitly, Minhaj all but encouraged the wider perception that he was an upfront and blunt truth-teller with a haunting past, that he understood the travails afflicting brown Americans because he knew them firsthand. [...] as opposed to stand-up greats like Richard Pryor who supplemented their commentary with clearly exaggerated alter egos, Minhaj never even hinted that he was doing a character, or giving voice to stories he'd heard from others, or gesturing toward the broader landscape of Muslim Americans. Minhaj took what real, everyday brown folks were going through and led those people to believe that he'd also been there—earning his fame and plaudits from that very trust, as well as the trust that engendered among those who wished to understand brown Americans.

Hasan Minhaj meant something to brown Americans. Was it all an act? (slate.com)

[Maark Abbott]

polishgenius, on 19 September 2023 - 08:18 AM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 19 September 2023 - 07:04 AM, said:

I dunno it's just kind of a normal thing here. I think there's another adjacent law that raises it if one party is over a certain age but that might be an urban myth.

There's a law that over-18-year-olds can't sleep with under-18-year-olds if they hold a 'position of trust' over them. Essentially, teachers can't fuck sixth-formers. I thought there was a law that extended that for a few years after the age of 18 in that situation (so teachers can't start fucking their 18 year old students the moment they leave school) but it seems that part was an urban myth.



Anyway, the age of consent is 16 in almost all of Europe, and lower than that in more places than it's older. The intent basically seems to be to recognise that teenagers fuck and shouldn't be punished by law for that. Though the existence of laws to stop older people taking advantage of those teenagers does vary wildly.

Ah, gotcha. I wasn't wildly off at least. Probably worth noting that even outside of a position of trust, someone more than 4 years older than a 16 year old being with them will often cop an unsavoury reputation, so if it's not -technically- illegal then it's at least considered socially unacceptable.

And yes that's always seemed the intent to me - teenagers fuck, teenagers drink. By and large, the worst thing you can try and do with a teenager is coddle them because the chances are they start rebelling against that. Education is the way.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Tiste Simeon, on 18 September 2023 - 08:11 PM, said:

Did not know Aoyade and Fox were related - Laurence Fox is the worst.

I did, and given Aoyade's clear lack of tolerance for Fox and the fact they've clashed before, I'm really surprised he's throwing support behind someone like Linehan.

I agree with polishgenius though - it's disappointing but doesn't put him in and amongst Weinstein, Brand etc.

The number of people who seem to have happily jumped on the idea that Brand is a poor lost puppy being targeted by the nasty government for speaking truth to power is... well, baffling is the polite way to put it. Sachsgate showed the type of man he is, and the loathsome little troll has given beyond creepy vibes forever.

I do wonder if he's the comedian Katherine Ryan spoke about confronting for predatory behaviour (as far as I'm aware, she's never given the name because she's said it isn't her story to tell) but I remember it being a male comedian she described as powerful.

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 26 September 2023 - 09:06 AM

[worry]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 26 September 2023 - 08:58 AM, said:

I do wonder if he's the comedian Katherine Ryan spoke about confronting for predatory behaviour (as far as I'm aware, she's never given the name because she's said it isn't her story to tell) but I remember it being a male comedian she described as powerful.

Yeah, with near certainty: https://deadline.com...yan-1235549112/

[Tiste Simeon]

I hate the term that gets thrown around a lot in scenarios like this - it's an "open secret"

So why the fnark is nothing done about it?

Yes I'm aware of the power imbalance and all the other factors in play, but if it was that much of an "open secret" why hasn't someone who is not a victim and also has clout in the industry not spoken up?

[QuickTidal]

Tiste Simeon, on 26 September 2023 - 02:06 PM, said:

I hate the term that gets thrown around a lot in scenarios like this - it's an "open secret"

So why the fnark is nothing done about it?

Yes I'm aware of the power imbalance and all the other factors in play, but if it was that much of an "open secret" why hasn't someone who is not a victim and also has clout in the industry not spoken up?

The last time I heard that was when Jian Gomeshi (former band member of Cdn 90's band Moxy Fruvous, and host of a really popular CBC radio show for years) was accused of seuxal assault by multiuple women, and people like Jann Arden were like "yeah, we knew"....I think generally without actual proof, like legal hard evidence of the behaviour it's not entirely smart to come out about it in any way, as that person can sue you for defamation. So until someone steps forward who either wants to tell their story, or has receipts of the accusation...letting people know the "open secret" is legally dangerous. I think it's actually Kat Ryan who said this in an interview and said she could not name them aloud for fear of legal reprisal.

Some people do shit behind the scenes, like Brad Pitt physically threatening Harvey Weinstein after he tried to get at Gwyneth Paltrow when they were dating...he reportedly told Harvey that if he ever went near Paltrow again he would put him in the street.

So I think it comes down to legality. With people like Weinstein and Cosby there were enough victims sharing notes that they were able to mount a legally sound case against them...but if you are just a music artist or comedian who hears about someone behaving badly in some way but can't prove it? In these situations, so often there is so little proof that would hold up in court.

[Tiste Simeon]

Yes good point. I think it's more the phrase Open Secret that gets to me. If it is so widely known then surely more can be done (good for Brad Pitt!)

I remember when Katherine Ryan said this and there was a lot of speculation, Russell Brand was a name that got thrown around a lot (as was David Walliams and, yeah I can sort of get that too!)

[QuickTidal]

Tiste Simeon, on 26 September 2023 - 02:53 PM, said:

(good for Brad Pitt!)

Stories like that always make me smile. Like some of the people in Hollywood aren't letting shit slide.

My other two faves are:

On the set of THREE KINGS, well-known asshole director David O. Russell was haranguing an extra to the point that he had her in tears, and George Clooney saw it happen, and walked over and told him to stop and when he didn't, Clooney reportedly punched him in the face and knocked him out. Which makes me love Clooney more.

The other one is about Andy Dick, who it is known was the one who gave Phil Hartman's wife (who was deep into recovery for drug addiction, and had been sober for a few months) the drugs that she took that caused her to disassociate with reality and kill Hartman and then herself...Dick reportedly coaxed her into doing the cocaine....which caused the argument she had with Hartman over it when she got home that night, so later on she shot him. So in a roundabout way Andy Dick is responsible for the death of Phil Hartman. Well Jon Lovitz accused him of this, and Dick reportedly told him when he saw him at a bar one night that he was putting "The Phil HArtman hex on him"...and so Lovitz slammed his head off the bar and knocked him out.

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 26 September 2023 - 02:34 PM, said:

... Jian Gomeshi (former band member of Cdn 90's band Moxy Fruvous, and host of a really popular CBC radio show for years) was accused of seuxal assault by multiuple women, and people like Jann Arden were like "yeah, we knew"....I think generally without actual proof, like legal hard evidence of the behaviour it's not entirely smart to come out about it in any way, as that person can sue you for defamation. ...so often there is so little proof that would hold up in court.

This seemed to be exactly the problem. When pressed, his accusers (and the 'yeah we knew' people who were willing to engage) could not draw a clear line between 'he enjoys consensual rough sex' and 'he actively abuses women'.

QuickTidal, on 26 September 2023 - 03:08 PM, said:

... about Andy Dick... he was putting "The Phil HArtman hex on him"...and so Lovitz slammed his head off the bar and knocked him out.

I may never know if this is a true story or just a legend, but i love it for everyone involved.

[amphibian]

That variant of the Andy Dick story is not how it happened. Lovitz said it happened over several years in three different interactions and involved him just shoving a belligerent Andy up against the wall a few times. It's a sad topic for Lovitz to talk about because he was really good friends with Phil Hartman for a long time.

[Abyss]

amphibian, on 26 September 2023 - 05:43 PM, said:

That variant of the Andy Dick story is not how it happened. Lovitz said it happened over several years in three different interactions and involved him just shoving a belligerent Andy up against the wall a few times. It's a sad topic for Lovitz to talk about because he was really good friends with Phil Hartman for a long time.

I figured it couldn't be true, if only because Dick is so scrawny that would probably kill him, but Lovitz throwing hands of vengeance at a known jerk is just glorious.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Perhaps there should be autonomous vigilante drones going around doing this everywhere... like ancient Chinese ghosts come to life.

But inflicting pain instead of brain damage (if only because brain damage might not be great for impulse control...).

Or perhaps not... would it be more humane to consign abusers to virtual zoos in which they can abuse to their heart's (or other parts') content? While being put to use somehow---perhaps as test subjects... or biotechnologically enhanced organ farms.

[polishgenius]

The most infuriating 'open secret' situation, at least so far as celebrities go, is and will probably always be Jimmy Saville. Because yes, the same issues that QT talked about applied- people 'knew' in the sense that 'someone told them a rumour- but a lot of the people who 'heard something' were people in a direct position to find out. Like, either people in positions of power at the BBC and hospitals, or journalists. Like Ian Hislop did a bit of commentary on exactly that subject on Have I Got News For You a few years back, about how everyone heard but nobody knew... but it was like Ian you are not only a journalist you are by the nature of your job one of the least destructible journalists in the country. And, clearly, you have long-running connections at the BBC. There were very few people who were in a better position to actually get answers than you were.

Andrew Neill also, he was in the Netflix documentary and it was pretty much the same thing, and it was like you of all people could have found out. There's also a clip in that documentary of him interviewing Saville back in the day, making a joke that had Saville basically admitting it all, and you can see the realisation and disgust dawn- but then he never did anything.

The fact that Saville spent decades telling everyone what he was doing pretending it was a joke makes it all the more angering.