[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Down South, on 30 August 2017 - 05:17 AM, said:

I believe Bittersteel is long dead though at this point. They could use his name and Targ ancestry in show though to give GC a face I suppose.

Fairly sure he is dead along with his brother Blackfyre(sp). Blood Raven 3 Eyed Crow(in bks) is their brother.

Jon Connington certainly thinks so - sure he thinks something along the lines of him "dying alone in an alien land" at some point. To be honest by that point in ADWD I was past caring!

[Cause]

Yes all the blakcfyre pretenders are dead. Bittersteal decades and decades ago. The most recent and last blackfyre was malous the monstrous who was killed by selmy in the war of the ninepennykings back when he was younger. So also decades ago.

Still the books imply the entire company is essentially a collection of exiled westerosi knights and nobles who tried in five invasions or something to usurp power in Westeros and get their lands back. I really hope inviting them backfires on cersei

[Gorefest]

Not sure why they revealed the GC plan so quickly. It would have been far more interesting to assume Euron had fled and then for him to turn up again in the first episode of the final season with the GC. But I guess clever writing is currently taking a back seat.

I was wondering why Bronn walked out on the Dragon Pit meeting with Pod, but then I realised that in real life him and the actress who plays Cersei hate each other's guts and they have a contract stipulation that states that they will never be in the same scene. Made it look a bit dodgy though, almost as if they had a secret plan to blow up the whole Targaryen party.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 30 August 2017 - 11:50 AM

[Nevyn]

Gorefest, on 30 August 2017 - 11:50 AM, said:

Not sure why they revealed the GC plan so quickly. It would have been far more interesting to assume Euron had fled and then for him to turn up again in the first episode of the final season with the GC. But I guess clever writing is currently taking a back seat.

1) They need a reason for Jamie to start riding North.

2) We already had Cersei's conversation with Jamie in an earlier episode hinting that she was planning intrigue, and her conversation with the bank about the iron company.

3) Next season will be moving pretty fast.

AND

4) A Golden Company surprise works better when they are turning the tide of a battle or doing a surprise attack. But they are very likely to arrive with no opposition from the North or Dany. Even Dany won't be shocked by it as Jamie will tell her.

[Cause]

Gorefest, on 30 August 2017 - 11:50 AM, said:

Not sure why they revealed the GC plan so quickly. It would have been far more interesting to assume Euron had fled and then for him to turn up again in the first episode of the final season with the GC. But I guess clever writing is currently taking a back seat.

I was wondering why Bronn walked out on the Dragon Pit meeting with Pod, but then I realised that in real life him and the actress who plays Cersei hate each other's guts and they have a contract stipulation that states that they will never be in the same scene. Made it look a bit dodgy though, almost as if they had a secret plan to blow up the whole Targaryen party.

I had the same thought. I was like wildfire bomb! Interesting to hear the real world reason. Also fuxk actors. It's called doing your job. Why do they get away with this crap.

I was amazed that the targaryen party was willing to enter the pit before the lannisters party actually.shoukd have demanded at least one high ranking lannisters be present. Don't know why cwrsei didn't bomb it. Especially since the books imply that the wildfire is stored under the pit anyway.

[Gorefest]

Cause, on 30 August 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:

I had the same thought. I was like wildfire bomb! Interesting to hear the real world reason. Also fuxk actors. It's called doing your job. Why do they get away with this crap.

As far as I understand it, they used to be in a relationship, one of those on-off-on-off deals that ended very sour. So they are not on speaking terms anymore and they put in their contract that they wouldn't have to attend the same shoots.

[worry]

Unfortunately, the dude who plays Bran gave an enlightening interview where he relays the info that a scene was shot for the finale showing Sansa consulting him about killing Arya, thus confirming that this wasn't a trap set by them, it really was a last moment twist.
http://www.huffingto...kushpmg00000009

Anyway, the kid who plays Bran seems cool and charming, but that tidbit is a real slap-the-forehead disappointment for Benioff and Weiss.

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

Even if they had kept that scene, I still would have thought that plot line was stupid.

[worry]

Duh, Whisperzzzzzzz. Duhhhhhhhh!

That scene would have made it even worse/less ambiguous that they did it the dumbest possible way.

[Malankazooie]

I was listening the radio earlier, and they had the "entertainment minute" where they report on all things about the entertainment biz. One of the things they reported on is that season 8 of Game of Thrones will not air until 2019. So, if they go back to a spring programming schedule, that's like over a year and a half until new episodes air. What a bummer. On the positive side, maybe TWOW will be out by then. Also, the long break will allow all the hate for this season to simmer down and get people pumped to watch it again.

[Tsundoku]

So who would be the Targaryens in our world?

http://www.gq.com.au...he+series,51977

[Abyss]

All caught up, getting back into the thread...

Terez, on 21 August 2017 - 02:20 AM, said:

...
6. I still maintain that this expedition was ridiculous. They should never have expected to survive north of the Wall with so few men....

Just noting that historically the Wildlings were the main danger beyond the Wall and they're all zombies or on the other side. The expedition didn't actually know just where the NK's army was, just that it was coming and didn't need silly things like advance forces and provisions. So their 'expectations' weren't the problem.

Malankazooie, on 21 August 2017 - 02:42 AM, said:

I took the handing of that special dagger from Arya to Sansa as a foreshadowing that Sansa will kill Littlefinger and that Arya is a step ahead of him and so is pulling the strings ever so subtly to make sure that happens. I'm probably wrong though.

Tormand was the best thing about the episode (with the Hound a close second).

The opening dialog between Tormand and Jon was a laugh out loud interaction. The final kicker being: Jon: "You've never been down south" / Tormand: "I've been to Winterfell" / Jon: "That's the North" / Tormand: "pthhhhh".

That exchanges as they were walking was priceless. Gendry's 'these people are all crazy' face, Tormund 'bonding' with Clegane, Jorah and Thoros discussing the breach at Pyke... all of it was SO much fun.

Honey Cups, on 21 August 2017 - 02:54 AM, said:

Pretty pissed off about it actually. Would have been great seeing Dany on Black Jon on White and Tyrion on Green. Fuck

Wonder how books will handle this?

worry, on 21 August 2017 - 05:27 AM, said:

Yah, mostly this made me think GRRM's version of the same thing will be a lot more awesome.

Very wondering as well. Suppose we'll see.

Around 2027 when Brandon Sanderson has time to get around to finishing SIF.

amphibian, on 21 August 2017 - 12:34 PM, said:

Tormund's axe was dragon glass, as were the spears the Wildings had and the Hound's knives. Plus the noted knives of Jorah.

Nice catch, i did not spot that. Only Jon actually fought a Walker so i didn't give them much thought tho Jorah's knives were pretty damn cool.

QuickTidal, on 21 August 2017 - 01:55 PM, said:

... the wights being linked to the white walkers is just one more thing that GRRM cribbed from MS&T...wherein the barrow wights and giants are controlled by the Norns (pale-skinned dark elves with icy blue eyes...yeah, you can't make this stuff up) and used to attack the humans south of the great mountains of the North. This is up to and including the death of the head Norn (Ineluki, The Storm King = GRRM's Night King doesn't even have all that different of a name) causing the barrow wights and giants to be lost as well. But yeah, if Norn Singers are felled (magic users), their wights fall into dust too (and giants are freed)....

Yeah, the trope is even older than that, Lloyd Alexander did something similar in PRYDAIN iirc.

worry, on 21 August 2017 - 04:53 AM, said:

... as Abyss likes to say, the space-time continuum is not important. But some of the action was pretty awesome, and I liked the non-action scenes in the various spots (except maybe Dany vs Tyrion, which rang kinda false).

Terez, on 21 August 2017 - 05:15 AM, said:

I'm not mad either; there's no point getting mad about it, and I'm still reasonably entertained. It's just annoyingly dumb, that's all.

QuickTidal, on 21 August 2017 - 01:55 PM, said:

Meh, I thought it was fine. Sure there were a bunch of pretty crazy "test ones suspension of disbelief" moments...but damn they made up for it in style and entertainment. So no, I don't care much about the logistics of "why didn't they do this?" or "why didn't they do that?" when I'm entertained on the level I was.
...overall we thought this episdoe was great!

the space-time continuum is not important.the space-time continuum is not important.the space-time continuum is not important.the space-time continuum is not important.the space-time continuum is not important.the space-time continuum is not important.the space-time continuum is not important. That's where i fall as well... the shortcuts were obvious but not worth thinking about vs just enjoying the ride. This is the greatest fantasy show ever on tv and i'm not going to minimize the fun worrying about shortcomings that do not really detract from the story for me. Sure, John and co could have spent three days running away from the Walkers and zombies until Dany arrived, but we didn't need to see that. What we needed to see was dragons dropping fire on a huge-ass army of ice zombies, and then the Night King killing a dragon and brining it back as a zombie. THAT, i needed to see on tv.

[Gorefest]

It's Jon. Heathen. The H is non-existent as opposed to silent.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 01 September 2017 - 02:18 PM

[Abyss]

Malankazooie, on 22 August 2017 - 08:17 PM, said:

Hey guys, the season finale is titled "The Dragon and the Wolf". You know what that means, don't you?

worry, on 22 August 2017 - 08:22 PM, said:

It means they have finally settled contract disputes with Ghost.

FINALLY!!!!!!

*watches ep*

Oh godsdammit.

Gorefest, on 23 August 2017 - 12:08 PM, said:

Malankazooie, on 23 August 2017 - 05:44 AM, said:

Uh,so, does Gendry have a legitimate claim to the Iron Throne? He's still alive and now he is out and about from pounding hot metal. Will he be reunited with Melisandre? Will Sansa be reunited with lemon cakes? Will Jon and Arya be reunited and continue their big (bastard) brother and little sister relationship? I dunno. You experts weigh in, please?

Gendry is a bastard, so no. He never was formally recognised, which in Westeros means you have no rights.

As someone mentioned upthread, a father can legit recognize a bastard (Older Bolton did this for Ramsey), and when they made Jon King o da North, he didn't even have that.

Honey Cups, on 28 August 2017 - 03:08 AM, said:

Perfect wasted moment/place to have Clegane Bowl. They are in a fucking arena...

AGreed, but the Hound's smacktalking to Gregor was still pretty awesome.

Quote

No Bronn rescue of Sexy Sand. Will probably be dropped altogether. Not enough ep left to fit that in.

Pretty sure the KL dungeon was the last we'll see of anyone named Sand, possibly even anyone from Dorne.

Quote

Not sure if that was blue fire or ice? Ice breath on Ice Wall doesn't make much sense but ice is their element. this interests me.

Terez, on 28 August 2017 - 12:05 PM, said:

I don't think it was ice. It's blue fire. It's hot enough to skip the melty process and go straight to vapor, and considering that only a streak at a time is being vaporized, that would cause the wall to crumble. Could be wrong, though.

I'm going with white/blue fire. The wall looked like it was melting and steaming at points.

Terez, on 28 August 2017 - 04:14 AM, said:

Content-wise, I'm happy; everything went as hoped and expected. Delivery was pretty hamhanded all around, though. Just my opinion.

Yes and yes. Agreed.

Terez, on 28 August 2017 - 05:42 AM, said:

... The Littlefinger trap was not written in such a way that makes it believable. Sure, it's believable on its face that Arya and Sansa would plot against him, but the way they went about it was deceptive rather than clever. They took the easy way out; anyone can write A and then make a hard, nonsensical shift to B. Writing B so that people think it's A takes more effort and creativity.

I could go on and on about this episode but there's no point really.

Yeah, for me this was the low point. Super manipulative evil six steps ahead of everyone Littlefinger gets caught utterly by surprise in a room full of enemies. FFS, he flat out states he's the Lord Protectoir of the Vail and he didn't bring a few knights along? Meh.
But at least they tied up a bunch of murder-plots.

Malankazooie, on 28 August 2017 - 08:03 AM, said:

Okay, I'm calling it right now. First episode of next season begins with Arya using that face she just acquired and doing some STABBA! STABBA!

They may save it til a bit further into the season, maybe send Arya to bring the Vale to the party, but yeah, pretty sure we'll see this.

- Coltaine -, on 28 August 2017 - 02:15 PM, said:

Terez, on 28 August 2017 - 01:28 PM, said:

- Coltaine -, on 28 August 2017 - 01:22 PM, said:

Tormund and Beric got saved by their plot armor, right?

I don't think so. They were on the Wall when it fell, and you could see the light of the dragonfire on Tormund's face the last time you saw him. They should have done a better job of making their deaths dramatic, because you're not the only one who thinks this, but I can't see how they could have survived that, and we had hints from the showrunners that Tormund wasn't going to survive this season (hence everyone being extra-surprised when he survived the expedition north of the Wall).

Just rewatched the scene. Last time he is shown he looks at the part of the wall that is crumbling behind him. So I thought that he would still be at the top of the wall, as he was running to the west and the wall collapsed from the west to the east. But if they hinted it ...

Beric (and his 'we're back frm the dead thing w Jon) is a dangling plot ref'd in the second to last ep, and there is no way in all of tvland that the show won't give fans a few more moments of Tormund panting after Brienne... that (improved, btw) bit was wholly too loved by the fans not to get more play.

Malankazooie, on 28 August 2017 - 02:41 PM, said:

Okay. A couple more things:

1) Qyburn was quite creepy when it came to the wight. I was all like nooooo don't let that weirdo near it and learn anything about them!
Who knows what it takes to kill FrakenMountain currently, if Qyburn was able to imbue him with wight magic you'd probably have to dice him up into little pieces to destroy him (or use fire or one of them shiny black knives ).

It would be wholly appropriate for Sandor to end Gregor with fire.

Quote

2) From what I remember from the books, The Golden Company are baaaaaaaadasses!

Yeah, but the book version had a very, very different plot purpose. I'm pretty sure here they are just being used as a device to get Cersei more troops who can be as badass as the plot needs them to be, with a little nod to the books for the fans. We may get commander Connington but I seriously doubt we'll see his pet (fake) Aegon Targaryen.

Terez, on 28 August 2017 - 02:52 PM, said:

...
It wasn't the type of sex that made it boring. Their facial expressions were dull; there didn't seem to be any real emotion or passion there at all.

Call that for most of their scenes together. On a show with generally decent to awesome performances, Clarke and Harrington are not selling this.
Tho if the gossip from a year or two ago is true, they had a thing and it ended ugly.

End of Disc One, on 28 August 2017 - 03:03 PM, said:

If Bronn can carry Jaime in armor half a mile underwater downstream, Tormund and Berric can run to the side and survive.

....on a giant wall of ice being blasted by an undead dragon being ridden by a millnia old ice lich. So, yes, exactly.

[Abyss]

Alternative Goose, on 28 August 2017 - 03:09 PM, said:

...Where the hell are they going to have their last stands now? Winterfell? That shitpile couldn't hold out against a bunch of wildlings, let alone all those dead people.

I would guess that the fall of Winterfell (hee) wil happen by the second ep of next season, massive drama, lots of fleeing, etc etc.

Quote

Also, if I was the night king I would blah blah blah nerd nerd nerd blah blah

ftfy

amphibian, on 28 August 2017 - 03:12 PM, said:

The geography of the show seems to suggest an initial fight at Winterfell. The war probably moves all the way down to Kings Landing.

I call the Valonqar to be Arya pretending to be Jaime and killing Cersei before the wild fire is blown up.

Agreed on the King's Landing finale (hence that last scene with snow falling everywhere as Jaime rode north).

I wonder whether the dragonfire may not come into play against the dead, but narrative wise it would make far more sense for Jaime to have to kill Cersei to prevent the same thing his killed Aerys to prevent.

Honey Cups, on 28 August 2017 - 03:43 PM, said:

We knew it was going to happen but I was expecting to say goodbye to Castle Black. Eastwatch makes sense though.

It does, and we've already had one big fight there.
Also, at a guess, in the book we'll see Castle Black fall, so they went with something different here.

Nevyn, on 28 August 2017 - 03:55 PM, said:

Anyone else notice the weird concerned look on Tyrion's face at the Targaryen love fest?

That could become interesting. Concerned over losing influence? Knows or has figured out more about Jon? Harboured dreams of getting in there himself? (Probably not the last ... Jon isn't his type)

Good question. My go-to was that he planned a strategic marriage for Dany and Jon wasn't it.

End of Disc One, on 28 August 2017 - 04:03 PM, said:

Wasn't Jon born before baby Aegon and his sister were killed? If so, isn't that a massive dick move to annul his marriage and bastardize his two other children?

Nevyn, on 28 August 2017 - 05:54 PM, said:

End of Disc One, on 28 August 2017 - 04:03 PM, said:

Wasn't Jon born before baby Aegon and his sister were killed? If so, isn't that a massive dick move to annul his marriage and bastardize his two other children?

The two kids dont become retroactive bastards. They are still legitimate.

But yeah, dick move.

Have you met the Targaryens?

Terez, on 28 August 2017 - 05:13 PM, said:

Whisperzzzzzzz, on 28 August 2017 - 05:02 PM, said:

polishgenius, on 28 August 2017 - 04:59 PM, said:

So how is Danaerys going to react when she realises that Tyrion knew full well that Cersei had no intention of sticking to her word?

Why do you think Tyrion knows?

Really, he should know. But it does appear that Cersei played him rather well with the pregnancy thing, and her going back on her word makes me suspect again that she's not really pregnant. I wonder if that's her way of trying to make people reluctant to kill her.

I want to think Cersei is lying about the pregnancy, but there was that brief chat with Qyburn where he offered her 'something'....

worry, on 28 August 2017 - 07:37 PM, said:

... I think this episode confirms the dead direwolf = dead Stark thing. Sansa passes the sentence but doesn't wield the execution blade herself. She's a goner.
...

Nah. Dead direwolves are plot devices... Lady was a victim to prompt the split between Sansa and Ned / Arya. Grey Wind was a victim of Robb's idiocy. Summer and Shaggydog died for dramatic effect.

Sansa has never been a killer and Arya make the kill solidified their respective roles. I remain of the view that Sansa will end up with Tyrion.

worry, on 28 August 2017 - 09:49 PM, said:

Alternative Goose, on 28 August 2017 - 08:45 PM, said:

In the case of Snow and Daenerys, they can't have children, so you don't even have to worry about their offspring.

Did an ob/gyn tell her this? Cuz otherwise I don't think it's a given.

Yeah, the show was pretty damn clear on opening this subject back up.

QuickTidal, on 29 August 2017 - 01:32 AM, said:

...
The wall falling was pretty cool. I guess my only question is that if MOST of the wall is still unmanned...why break through at Eastwatch and not some other random point?

Magic!
Also, Eastwatch was closest.

Quote

Jon being an Aegon is fine. I see no reason why not reuse a name that's already been used in the past. It's not like anyone is going to call him Aegon much who knows him intimately.

Yeah, it's not like the Tarygaryens don't haeve ae long traedition of reusing the saeme naemes ovaer and ovaer aegaein.

Quote

Also, can Theon be called Theon the Cockless now as his like "pirate name"? Because that scene was funny, and I can't imagine that his men (or rather Yara's men) don't utlize it in some way.

While some part of me felt that entire scene was pointless filler because they needed to fill some minutes without fx, it was still a nice touch.

Quote

And I feel like Worry's point is furthered by Jon's "Who told you this?" "The witch who..." "don't you think maybe they aren't the best judge" convo. There is really no other point to that conversation from a narrative standpoint.

Yep.

Gorefest, on 30 August 2017 - 02:58 PM, said:

Cause, on 30 August 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:

I had the same thought. I was like wildfire bomb! Interesting to hear the real world reason. Also fuxk actors. It's called doing your job. Why do they get away with this crap.

As far as I understand it, they used to be in a relationship, one of those on-off-on-off deals that ended very sour. So they are not on speaking terms anymore and they put in their contract that they wouldn't have to attend the same shoots.

Seriously, those two and Clarke / Harrington... honestly people you're getting paid stupid money for this, get over it and then go slam the other person in the trash mags like everyone else!

[Abyss]

Gorefest, on 01 September 2017 - 02:17 PM, said:

It's Jon. Heathen. The H is non-existent as opposed to silent.

So's yo momma.

[worry]

Nope, Sansa and Bran are goners! You heard it here first.

[Malankazooie]

Awwww. They are legitimately buddies off screen. Man, I wish I was a member of the "Brotherhood without Banjos", hanging out in a dusky tavern, drinking beers with them and spinning yarn after yarn of amazing adventures, and striking up a tune when the inspiration hits us.

[Malankazooie]

Hey guys, do you guys think if Dany and Jon make it as far as they can the small folk will be disgusted with the knowledge that they are related? And so reject their claim to the Iron Throne?

I mean incest has been one of the over arching themes of ASoIaF. Remember, all of this kicked off when Bran witnessed sexy time between Cersei and Jaime and Jamie shoved Bran out the window because they didn't want the Seven Kingdoms to receive the knowledge that sister and brother were having sex. Also, there was the small detail that Cersei was married to the King at the time (Robert Baratheon), so that was probably a factor as well.

I was thinking too, if incest was a common practice with House Targaryen through the ages, how come we don't see more of the diseases/genetic disorders that become common from generations of incest reproduction?

I look forward to ( and respect ) any and and all opinions. No judgment here, kay? So fire away.

[Nevyn]

Incest has been suggested as helping lead to madness among Targaryen

But it won't give people in Western the ewss

Cersei and Jamie was a big deal because it was also adultery and meant the heirs weren't the Kings children and thus not heirs. The king would have killed them.