[JPK]

Traveller, on 14 March 2017 - 11:39 AM, said:

Can anyone enlighten me as to why the Countess in Rome is referred to as 'Countess G---?' Like her name is deliberately omitted?

It was covered inn one of the footnotes in my edition. She was apparently based on a real Countess. I'll find the footnote and share it when I get home tonight.

[JPK]

Quote

Countess G----: It is clear from the manuscript that Dumas is thinking of Lord Byron's mistress, Countess Teresa Guiccioli.

[Itwæs Nom]

JPK, on 15 March 2017 - 01:07 AM, said:

Quote

Countess G----: It is clear from the manuscript that Dumas is thinking of Lord Byron's mistress, Countess Teresa Guiccioli.

According to wikipedia it's also the same way that Byron referred to her in his journals

[Mentalist]

Been caught up with some life stuff, only finished this week's allotment around midnight last night.

Ando, re: what we were discussing:

Spoiler

I feel the "using the kids" is more nuanced than what you'd expect. In 2 cases, we have young girls viewed by their fathers (Danglar and Villefort) as assets, despite their own wishes (one wants to be a musician, the other wants to marry Morrel, and neither cares about money or status). If anything, helping the kids to thwart their parents would be most effective.

There's already evidence of this with the con that's being set up through Benedetto (though I suspect Kaderousse might become a spanner in the works), but I suspect the Morrel and Valentina situation will be more complicated (because the Count is un-aware of their love). I'm getting the impression he's pushing Villeforte's wife to poison both him and Valentina to have Edward inherit everything.

Albert is the one most vulnerable, but, otoh, the Count might be reluctant to hurt him, b/c that'd hurt Mercedes, and it seems he still has feelings for her.

But now with the revelation about Fernand's involvement in Albania, and Danglar digging into that, it's possible the Count will set Danglar up to be the one to use that dirt to bring Fernand down.

Getting pretty thick with the plots, secrets and plans here is now.

[Andorion]

Mentalist, on 20 March 2017 - 02:12 PM, said:

Been caught up with some life stuff, only finished this week's allotment around midnight last night.

Ando, re: what we were discussing:

Spoiler

I feel the "using the kids" is more nuanced than what you'd expect. In 2 cases, we have young girls viewed by their fathers (Danglar and Villefort) as assets, despite their own wishes (one wants to be a musician, the other wants to marry Morrel, and neither cares about money or status). If anything, helping the kids to thwart their parents would be most effective.

There's already evidence of this with the con that's being set up through Benedetto (though I suspect Kaderousse might become a spanner in the works), but I suspect the Morrel and Valentina situation will be more complicated (because the Count is un-aware of their love). I'm getting the impression he's pushing Villeforte's wife to poison both him and Valentina to have Edward inherit everything.

Albert is the one most vulnerable, but, otoh, the Count might be reluctant to hurt him, b/c that'd hurt Mercedes, and it seems he still has feelings for her.

But now with the revelation about Fernand's involvement in Albania, and Danglar digging into that, it's possible the Count will set Danglar up to be the one to use that dirt to bring Fernand down.

Getting pretty thick with the plots, secrets and plans here is now.

Yes, its all very manipulative.

He has found certain weaknesses, and certain past scandals, and now he is going to use their kids and families to rip them apart.

Fernand interests me the most, mainly because that is where he has a conflict of interest

[Andorion]

So I am the one lagging behind this week.

Chapter 73 so far.

Spoiler

And Valentine and Morrel are driving me crazy with their prevarication.

[JPK]

I started making some catch-up progress. I'm finally up to the start of this weeks assignment. Considering I was a week and a half behind, I'm considering that a victory. I should be up between 65 and 70 before the new assignment starts on monday.

[Andorion]

Spoilers upto chapter 75

Spoiler

Ok who poisoned the St Merans? Were they poisoned at all? Anyway, a break at last for Valentine and Morrel with that sudden reveal from Noirtier.

Also Danglars is making a lot of losses. I wonder if the Count is playing a background game of ruining him gradually. Also Danglars invests based on his wifes dreams? WTF?

[Mentalist]

Been crazy busy this weekend, and spending extra time w/ grandparents because they're leaving next week.

I'll catch up by next weekend, probably gonna just read what's left of the book in one sitting.

[Andorion]

Mentalist, on 27 March 2017 - 03:54 AM, said:

Been crazy busy this weekend, and spending extra time w/ grandparents because they're leaving next week.

I'll catch up by next weekend, probably gonna just read what's left of the book in one sitting.

I.....may have done this already.

[Traveller]

I'm just reading any time I can. Like at work.

Just hit chapter 68. I really like the way the threads are being pulled, but I'm still finding it difficult to reconcile the Count with Edmond Dantes.

[JPK]

Traveller, on 28 March 2017 - 04:36 PM, said:

I'm just reading any time I can. Like at work.

Just hit chapter 68. I really like the way the threads are being pulled, but I'm still finding it difficult to reconcile the Count with Edmond Dantes.

Agreed. I think we lose a lot of the transition of Dantes with the time jump where he's apparently in Greece finding Haydee and exploring asian culture.

I'm finally working on the current weeks chapters! I should be able to catch up to finish on time even!

I think my favorite bits of the story involve his complete manipulation of Villefort's entire family.

[JPK]

Andorion, on 26 March 2017 - 03:41 AM, said:

Spoilers upto chapter 75

Spoiler

Ok who poisoned the St Merans? Were they poisoned at all? Anyway, a break at last for Valentine and Morrel with that sudden reveal from Noirtier.

Also Danglars is making a lot of losses. I wonder if the Count is playing a background game of ruining him gradually. Also Danglars invests based on his wifes dreams? WTF?

Spoiler

I feel it was pretty clear that he was referring to information that she "dreamed" while she was being fed information from her lover. Danglar was just being coy about being their situation.

[Mentalist]

Got up to Pt 6 (so....finished Ch 97, I think). Things are pretty much as expected.

Spoiler

So Dantes at this point got 2.5 of the four (since Danglars isn't officially bankrupt yet, but that's inevitable).

So the only question is, how are they gonna pin the murders on Villefort's wife

[Traveller]

Just finished.

What an ending.

Spoiler

The whole Villefort finale was really disturbing. Dantes whole avenging angel scheme went right off the rails at the death of Edward - at least he acknowledged it immediately, but crap, bankrupting and humiliating is one thing, killing children or leading others to do so is something else.

His extent he was willing to go to get revenge started to show when it seems he was quite happy to kill Albert in a duel. If Mercedes hadn't intervened, he would have - even after acting as a close friend. Valentine too would have died had Morrel not told Monte Cristo of his love.

It's interesting to think of all the other ways he could have avenged himself on the three, without harming anyone else along the way. He could have done it so many other ways with his resources.

Really enjoyed revisiting this book. Good ending too, it seemed more convincing having him leave

Spoiler

with Haidee rather than having a joyful reunion with Mercedes. He pretty much broke everyone on his rampage, including himself; which I guess is the whole theme of the book.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 05 April 2017 - 09:02 PM

[JPK]

Traveller, on 05 April 2017 - 08:56 PM, said:

Just finished.

What an ending.

Spoiler

The whole Villefort finale was really disturbing. Dantes whole avenging angel scheme went right off the rails at the death of Edward - at least he acknowledged it immediately, but crap, bankrupting and humiliating is one thing, killing children or leading others to do so is something else.

His extent he was willing to go to get revenge started to show when it seems he was quite happy to kill Albert in a duel. If Mercedes hadn't intervened, he would have - even after acting as a close friend. Valentine too would have died had Morrel not told Monte Cristo of his love.

It's interesting to think of all the other ways he could have avenged himself on the three, without harming anyone else along the way. He could have done it so many other ways with his resources.

Really enjoyed revisiting this book. Good ending too, it seemed more convincing having him leave

Spoiler

with Haidee rather than having a joyful reunion with Mercedes. He pretty much broke everyone on his rampage, including himself; which I guess is the whole theme of the book.

In regards to the first spoiler:

Spoiler

I think that a large part of him was set on taking out the entire families and that it wasn't a case of him just not caring about bystanders. There is a bit during the setup for the dual against Albert where he makes this rather clear.

Quote

Chapter 89 - Night
'Mercedes,' Monte Cristo repeated. 'Mercedes! Ah, yes, you are right, this name is still sweet to me when I speak it, and this is the first time for many years that it has sounded so clear as it left my lips. Oh, Mercedes, I have spoken your name with sighs of melancholy, with groans of pain and the croak of despair. I have spoken it frozen with cold, huddled on the straw of my dungeon. I have spoken it raging with heat and rolling around on the stone floor of my prison. Mercedes, I must have my revenge, because for fourteen years I suffered, fourteen years I wept and cursed. Now, I say to you, I must have my revenge!' And, fearful that he might give way to the prayers of the woman whom he had loved so much, the count summoned up his memories in the service of his hatred.

'Take your revenge, Edmond,' the poor woman said. 'But take it on those that are guilty. Be avenged on him, on me, but not on my son!'

'It is written in the Holy Book that the sins of the fathers shall be visited upon the children even unto the third and fourth generation,' Monte Cristo replied. 'Since God dictated those very words to his prophet, why should I be better than God?' And he gave a sigh that was like a roar, and clasped his fine hair in his hands."

I think that this passage lays it out rather clear that the horrors that he inflicted upon the families of the men that condemned him were very premeditated. I also think that, in the end, it comes down to the fate of his father due to the imprisonment caused by these men. If he had not starved, alone, he would have been satisfied with only revenging himself on the men themselves.

[Mentalist]

Finished last night.

I can see why I loved this when I first read it in my teen years.

Now I'm more critical of the ending. The count's penchant for dram with

Spoiler

Valentina pulling a Juliet

irked me, because it was so predictable.

Likewise, Edmon's philosophizing about God and destiny in the end... it felt a bit much.

Still, glad I read it.

[JPK]

I'm at chapter 111 now and expect to finish it tonight.

Am I the last one?

[Itwæs Nom]

JPK, on 11 April 2017 - 10:44 PM, said:

I'm at chapter 111 now and expect to finish it tonight.

Am I the last one?

If the book has 118 chapters I should be at chapter 109, not finishing today though. I'm also not sure how did I get here because two weeks ago I was almost three weeks behind and had lost any hope of finishing in time.

[JPK]

I made it halfway through chapter 115 and then I fell asleep last night. I was pissed off about it too because the final chapters involving

Spoiler

Danglars' capture and imprisonment by Luigi Vampa

are a couple of my favorites.

One of my favorite passages in the entire work comes from the final chapter though:

Spoiler

It's a bit from the conversation between The Count and Maximilien, starting with the latter:

Quote

'I believe whatever you tell me, without trying to elucidate its meaning, Count. The proof is that you told me to live, and I have lived. You told me to hope, and I almost hoped. So I shall dare to ask you, as if you had already died once before: Count, does it hurt very much?'

Monte Cristo looked at Morrel with an infinite expression of tenderness. 'Yes,' he said. 'Yes, no doubt, it does hurt if you brutally shatter the mortal envelope when it is crying out to live. If you make your flesh scream under the imperceptible teeth of a dagger; if you drive an insensitive bullet, always ready to meander on its way, through your brain - which suffers from the merest jolt; yes, indeed you will suffer and leave life in the most horrifying way, in a desperate agony that will make you ready to think it better than rest bought at such a price.'

'I understand,' said Morrel. 'Death has its secrets of pain and pleasure, like life; it is just a question of knowing what they are.'

'Precisely, Maximilien: you have hit the nail on the head. Death, according to the care we take to be on good or bad terms with it, is either a friend which will rock us as gently as a nursing mother or an enemy which will savagely tear apart body and soul. One day, when our world has lived another thousand years, when people have mastered all the destructive forces of nature and harnessed them to the general good of mankind, and when, as you just said, men have learnt the secrets of death, then death will be as sweet and voluptuous as sleep in a lover's arms.'

I agree that there are points in which his writing shows signs of edging dangerously close to shades of purple prose, but there are so many moments like this one that just shine for me.

I will be rather surprised if this is the last time that I read this book.