[Aptorian]

I'm seeing it this weekend with my parents.

[Morgoth]

Seeing it on saturday with some friends. Looking forwards to it!

[QuickTidal]

Seeing it as soon as i can. Heard it's tremendous, and a bit overlong.

Also, the latest trailer gave away the fact that

Spoiler

Edward James Olmos' character is in it!

[Macros]

Have to rewatch original

[Slow Ben]

Making the ole lady watch the original this weekend in preparation.

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 05 October 2017 - 01:12 PM, said:

Seeing it as soon as i can. Heard it's tremendous, and a bit overlong.

Also, the latest trailer gave away the fact that

Spoiler

Edward James Olmos' character is in it!

Or IS he?!?!!?!?

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 05 October 2017 - 03:17 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 05 October 2017 - 01:12 PM, said:

Seeing it as soon as i can. Heard it's tremendous, and a bit overlong.

Also, the latest trailer gave away the fact that

Spoiler

Edward James Olmos' character is in it!

Or IS he?!?!!?!?

Spoiler

Well this time he's MADE of Origami...soooo

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 05 October 2017 - 03:53 PM

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 05 October 2017 - 03:52 PM, said:

Abyss, on 05 October 2017 - 03:17 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 05 October 2017 - 01:12 PM, said:

Seeing it as soon as i can. Heard it's tremendous, and a bit overlong.

Also, the latest trailer gave away the fact that

Spoiler

Edward James Olmos' character is in it!

Or IS he?!?!!?!?

Spoiler

Well this time he's MADE of Origami...soooo

Exactly.
Why are you so certain of this QT?
Why????

Is it because

Spoiler

you didn't hold the tortoise down on its back? Is it?
IS IT YOU REPLICANT SCUM CONFESS
CONFESS GODAMMIT
CONFESSSS!!!!!!!!!!!

...ahem.

[Avatar]

Saturday, yaah!

[Itwæs Nom]

Just seen it

It's really good

I watched the original for the first time only today and I thought it was my favorite scifi movie, but I found 2049 even better. The visuals are stunning, and the story has more space to develop and not one of the 163 minutes feels like filler. Gosling's acting is no match for Harrison in original though.

[Grumble]

7 out of 10 for me.

War for the Planet of the Apes was better. 9/10

[Itwæs Nom]

Grumble, on 06 October 2017 - 06:04 AM, said:

War for the Planet of the Apes was better. 9/10

I thought WftPoftA was terrible

[Aptorian]

Okay I had 24 hours to digest the film. There's stuff I don't get about the plot/conclusion or just managed to forget in between the start and ending of the film.

Obviously don't look in here if you haven't seen the film.

SPOILERS

Spoiler

Right so Deckard (Harrison Ford) and Rachael (Female love interest from first film whom I have no idea who is) fuck and have a human replicant hybrid.

Rachael dies during child birth for some reason. (Why?)

Did they have two children or just one? Like twins or did she get pregenante twice?

As far as I understand the BOY dies and the GIRL lives? Yes.

K/Joe spends most of the film believing he is the boy but this is a false memory?

Boy died and girl lived and replicant woman with only one eye switched the kids files/doctored them somehow to throw off the corps trail.

The actual hybrid girl is memory maker woman who lives in a plastic room.

Okay but why the hell does K/Joe have the memories then? Memory woman/hybrid girl says that using real memories is forbidden or illegal. So why did K get them? Was she just being a naughty memory maker and sharing random memories with random replicants because hey fuck the system, or?

I can't believe that this was an intentional implant, since I can't see how any of the pieces that fell into place could have been manipulated to get the result that lead to the films story.

But then on the other hand I don't understand how Memory hybrid girl came to live in her plastic workshop bubble?

Hybrid girl was dropped off at the factory place before the blackout that wiped her history. So how does an orphan living in garbage world become Memory Woman? Did One Eyed Replicant come back, pick her up, wipe her old memory and make her believe she was abandoned/left behind by rich parents that fled off world? Or was hybrid memory girl woman's background story, that she told to K/Joe, just made up and she remembers her origin? Which is why she cried when she saw K/Joes memories from the foundry? If so... wouldn't she had said something different when K/Joe came to consult with her? She basically (intentionally?) solidified the belief that he was the hybrid boy.

Which then leads to the question of what the heck happens to K/Joe. He's not a normal Replicant. The new generation of hybrids obey. I assume there is more to this statement than just propaganda and indoctrination tests at Police HQ. So why was K/Joe different? Was it just the one memory implanted in him after he was grown that by a random throw of the dice started all this? Was he just a normal Blade Runner who was corrupted by one memory? Or is there more? Could he actually be the hybrid boy despite what One Eyed Replicant said? Or is there some third option?

Also do you think he died there on the stairs?

I don't really understand the third act. What is the point of interrogating/torturing Deckard? Just to learn if they added some secret sauce to make the replicant hybrid girl/boy? Why aren't these super scientists capable of replicating the hybrid pregnancy? They have Deckard and Rachaels DNA. Also what the fuck is preventing spooky grey eyed villain/Jared Letho from super-torturing Deckard on Earth? What the fuck kind of space technology exists off planet that they can't just cyber-water board Deckard on Earth?

What is this underground Replicant armies endgame? If we believe that One Eyed Replicant woman intentionally moved hybrid girl to her plastic bubble, what comes next? Was she just put there to protect her? What is the next step? Just wait 10,000 years and hope hybrid girl has lot of children who all inherit the hybrid making gene and the replicant human hybrid ability slow spreads throughout the human civilization? Or are they going to take her DNA and gene-enhance existing replicants? If so what's the point? Replicant Corp will get the ability eventually.

Also... I find the whole "We can't build enough Replicants" plot point sort of preposterous. I don't know what exactly goes into the replicant baking formula but I suspect that it's a lot faster and cheaper than impregnating existing replicants.

Also just as an aside, if you can make fake humans you should be able to make synthetic plants pretty fucking easy but hey, I know they're going by the lore of an ancient Sci-fi novel.

This post has been edited by Alternative Goose: 08 October 2017 - 06:41 PM

[polishgenius]

Big spoilers. Some answers to apt and thoughts of my own.

Spoiler

Quote

Right so Deckard (Harrison Ford) and Rachael (Female love interest from first film whom I have no idea who is) fuck and have a human replicant hybrid.

Or a replicant-replicant child since the film (wisely) never clears up whether Deckard is one or not.

Quote

Rachael dies during child birth for some reason. (Why?)

Well, people just do sometimes, but in any case she was probably the old four-year-lifespan model who'd have been coming to the end of her time.

Quote

Did they have two children or just one? Like twins or did she get pregenante twice?

As far as I understand the BOY dies and the GIRL lives? Yes.

There was no boy. His records were mocked up, in-narrative to blur the trail but in reality to make us open to the idea that K is the kid.

Quote

Okay but why the hell does K/Joe have the memories then? Memory woman/hybrid girl says that using real memories is forbidden or illegal. So why did K get them? Was she just being a naughty memory maker and sharing random memories with random replicants because hey fuck the system, or?

Yes. He's not the only one- check Mariette (the prostitute who Joi hires to pretend to be her) reacting to seeing the horse on his bedside table.

Quote

Or was hybrid memory girl woman's background story, that she told to K/Joe, just made up and she remembers her origin? Which is why she cried when she saw K/Joes memories from the foundry? If so... wouldn't she had said something different when K/Joe came to consult with her?

I'm assuming she knows. She doesn't react to K initially because she has no idea he's one of the ones with her memory (there's no reason she has to divvy them out individually or ever see the replicants), but look how devastated she is when she realises what she's done to him. But heck, she doesn't have to know, she doesn't have to remember that the memory is from the orphanage- K doesn't.

Quote

The new generation of hybrids obey. I assume there is more to this statement than just propaganda and indoctrination tests at Police HQ. So why was K/Joe different?

He's not. You meet a whole posse of new generation hybrids who aren't obeying at the end. It's implied that finding out about the child and imagining it might be then is what causes the break, but it's entirely possible that the programming/conditioning just isn't as good as the makers thought it was. Even Luv shows signs of pushing against hers.

Quote

Also do you think he died there on the stairs?

I think that was the intention- like tears... in snow...- but I don't actually think it's terribly important to the film whether he does or not.

Quote

What is the point of interrogating/torturing Deckard?

To find out what he knows about where the child is.





Anyway, I liked it, and there's plenty to chat about, but I didn't love the original and I don't love this. What it makes up for in more concrete plot, it loses in being a lot more conventional and less weird and darkly whimsical. In fact I think to some extent the more concrete plotting might have worked against it, as it sort of drowned out the quieter moments that made the first one so memorable. In fact the most memorable moments for me will probably end up being the subplot between K and Joi, which did have that vague drifty lack of hurry to it.

And speaking of drowning out, I found the soundtrack overwhelming at points, and I've spoken to at least one other person who found the same so I don't think it was just my cinema. Way too much emphasis on the bass and drums in the sound mix- but also the soundtrack itself was too insistent and dragged your attention to it in ways the first one didn't.

[Avatar]

I thought it was brilliant. Best sci fi I have seen in many years. Story, depth, interesting philosophical and ethical themes (what is authentic, which lives are worth protecting), visuals. 9,5/10 for me.

[Aptorian]

Good points

Spoiler

polishgenius, on 08 October 2017 - 07:22 PM, said:

Big spoilers. Some answers to apt and thoughts of my own.

Quote

Right so Deckard (Harrison Ford) and Rachael (Female love interest from first film whom I have no idea who is) fuck and have a human replicant hybrid.

Or a replicant-replicant child since the film (wisely) never clears up whether Deckard is one or not.

I actually think they sort of teased this during Deckards meeting with Jared Letho. I can't quite recall the way it was phrased but I got the impression that Letho believed Deckard was a replicant and Deckard might believe so as well.

polishgenius, on 08 October 2017 - 07:22 PM, said:

Quote

Rachael dies during child birth for some reason. (Why?)

Well, people just do sometimes, but in any case she was probably the old four-year-lifespan model who'd have been coming to the end of her time.

Ah I don't really remember much about the replicants from the first Blade Runner. This would be a clever spin. However if this was true, you'd wonder if her expiration date might be transfered genetically.

Speaking of Replicant design. I thought they were part machine but all the replicants in BR 2049 seem to just be clone humans. This is sort of a departure from the tougher military/mining replicants from the first film who didn't need to breath and was resistant to temperatures and physical trauma. Seems like a strange design choice in for example a Blade Runner.

On the other hand I loved the heaviness of David Batista's character. He walked heavy and when he fell it sounded like a building falling over.

polishgenius, on 08 October 2017 - 07:22 PM, said:

Quote

Did they have two children or just one? Like twins or did she get pregenante twice?

As far as I understand the BOY dies and the GIRL lives? Yes.

There was no boy. His records were mocked up, in-narrative to blur the trail but in reality to make us open to the idea that K is the kid.

Ah of course, I didn't walk that plot point far enough back.

polishgenius, on 08 October 2017 - 07:22 PM, said:

Quote

Okay but why the hell does K/Joe have the memories then? Memory woman/hybrid girl says that using real memories is forbidden or illegal. So why did K get them? Was she just being a naughty memory maker and sharing random memories with random replicants because hey fuck the system, or?

Yes. He's not the only one- check Mariette (the prostitute who Joi hires to pretend to be her) reacting to seeing the horse on his bedside table.

polishgenius, on 08 October 2017 - 07:22 PM, said:

Quote

The new generation of hybrids obey. I assume there is more to this statement than just propaganda and indoctrination tests at Police HQ. So why was K/Joe different?

He's not. You meet a whole posse of new generation hybrids who aren't obeying at the end. It's implied that finding out about the child and imagining it might be then is what causes the break, but it's entirely possible that the programming/conditioning just isn't as good as the makers thought it was. Even Luv shows signs of pushing against hers.

Well, I actually assumed that the other rogue replicants were just different, older models. Or replicants that had been "hacked".

K/Joes "fall" was an organic break down. I feel like it's inconsistent, considering the opening scroll claiming that the new replicants don't rebel. It feels sort of lazy to then turn around and show that this is just propaganda.

polishgenius, on 08 October 2017 - 07:22 PM, said:

Anyway, I liked it, and there's plenty to chat about, but I didn't love the original and I don't love this. What it makes up for in more concrete plot, it loses in being a lot more conventional and less weird and darkly whimsical. In fact I think to some extent the more concrete plotting might have worked against it, as it sort of drowned out the quieter moments that made the first one so memorable. In fact the most memorable moments for me will probably end up being the subplot between K and Joi, which did have that vague drifty lack of hurry to it.

I really loved the love story between K and Joi. They were so sweet together. And I loved how sci-fi they went with her holographic presence. Very impressive CGI.

polishgenius, on 08 October 2017 - 07:22 PM, said:

And speaking of drowning out, I found the soundtrack overwhelming at points, and I've spoken to at least one other person who found the same so I don't think it was just my cinema. Way too much emphasis on the bass and drums in the sound mix- but also the soundtrack itself was too insistent and dragged your attention to it in ways the first one didn't.

I was wondering if this was just our cinema messing up the settings. The music/sound effects were incredibly uncomfortabe to the point I was wondering whether you could get hearing damage from watching this film.

On the other hand things like gun fire and fist fights sounded incredible.

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

I thought the sound design and scoring were very immersive, especially with the IMAX sound system. I loved how powerful they were.

Spoiler

I was also confused by the Replicants seeming to be fully organic in this film. I could have sworn they were more robot than human in the first movie.

This post has been edited by Whisperzzzzzzz: 09 October 2017 - 10:34 AM

[polishgenius]

Spoiler

If the replicants in 1 were more robot than human, you wouldn't need the question tests to figure them out, surely? They're just some mega kind of organic-looking synthetic human. The same was true here- it's not made as big a deal of, but remember the moment when Deckard goes to all the effort of locking the garage door behind him and K just casually smashes through the wall next to it. And he's hardly the strongest replicant in the film, that being Luv (because she's the 'best angel').

This post has been edited by polishgenius: 09 October 2017 - 06:02 PM

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

polishgenius, on 09 October 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

Spoiler

If the replicants in 1 were more robot than human, you wouldn't need the question tests to figure them out, surely? They're just some mega kind of organic-looking synthetic human. The same was true here- it's not made as big a deal of, but remember the moment when Deckard goes to all the effort of locking the garage door behind him and K just casually smashes through the wall next to it. And he's hardly the strongest replicant in the film, that being Luv (because she's the 'best angel'.

I think I had also assumed that there were non-Replicant cyborgs in the BR universe, so just testing for mechanical parts wouldn't be enough. I don't know why I assumed that though.

EDIT: I feel like we can go open spoilers in this thread now.

This post has been edited by Whisperzzzzzzz: 09 October 2017 - 09:48 PM

[D'rek]

Yeah, the movie's been out for over a week now in most of the world and it's a discrete discussion thread. I think open spoilers will be fine.

MOD NOTICE OF OPEN SPOILERS FROM HERE ONWARDS. READ AT YOUR OWN DISCRETION!