[Telas]

remove vote

For now, we have plenty of time. Will read after lunch, will be waiting on ma for an hour anyway

[Bendal Home]

Serc, on 21 October 2016 - 11:50 AM, said:

Bendal Home, on 20 October 2016 - 07:21 PM, said:

Telas, on 20 October 2016 - 07:19 PM, said:

Bendal, I'm sorry but you're going to have to string these quote together with some relevant text. That post was me voting arantha, a vote count, mockra voting lio, serc voting omtose, a vote count.Then a claim it all fits because gait and kesso found votes odd. which votes, how are they linked. What in under fuck are you actually trying to say here?

Telas i fucking plead you to go read with serc as symp and mockra as killer in mind. Look at their posts its obvious. Im saying on that one that your vote shook the tree a little and prompted scum to vote. Mockra on another alternative and serc to promote a lead candidate.

Bendal Home, on 20 October 2016 - 07:24 PM, said:

vote MockraWe have time ill continue later. Im going to play badminton. Im convinced.Im excited ive found the connection.

Serc, on 20 October 2016 - 07:27 PM, said:

Bendal Home, on 20 October 2016 - 07:24 PM, said:

vote MockraWe have time ill continue later. Im going to play badminton. Im convinced.Im excited ive found the connection.

this ones easyVote Mockra

Bendal Home, on 20 October 2016 - 07:35 PM, said:

remove voteTelas i am convinced Serc is Mockras sympI will vote either. Therefore i label you town. So i will vote for either serc or mockra. Up to you but please read up.

hmmmn...

Well it's out my hands but I actually missed this in all your mountains of post.

I think the contradiction in action to words says enough.

No contradiction if I believe you scum.

[Serc]

Bendal Home, on 21 October 2016 - 11:53 AM, said:

Serc, on 21 October 2016 - 11:50 AM, said:

Bendal Home, on 20 October 2016 - 07:21 PM, said:

Telas, on 20 October 2016 - 07:19 PM, said:

Bendal, I'm sorry but you're going to have to string these quote together with some relevant text. That post was me voting arantha, a vote count, mockra voting lio, serc voting omtose, a vote count.Then a claim it all fits because gait and kesso found votes odd. which votes, how are they linked. What in under fuck are you actually trying to say here?

Telas i fucking plead you to go read with serc as symp and mockra as killer in mind. Look at their posts its obvious. Im saying on that one that your vote shook the tree a little and prompted scum to vote. Mockra on another alternative and serc to promote a lead candidate.

Bendal Home, on 20 October 2016 - 07:24 PM, said:

vote MockraWe have time ill continue later. Im going to play badminton. Im convinced.Im excited ive found the connection.

Serc, on 20 October 2016 - 07:27 PM, said:

Bendal Home, on 20 October 2016 - 07:24 PM, said:

vote MockraWe have time ill continue later. Im going to play badminton. Im convinced.Im excited ive found the connection.

this ones easyVote Mockra

Bendal Home, on 20 October 2016 - 07:35 PM, said:

remove voteTelas i am convinced Serc is Mockras sympI will vote either. Therefore i label you town. So i will vote for either serc or mockra. Up to you but please read up.

hmmmn...

Well it's out my hands but I actually missed this in all your mountains of post.

I think the contradiction in action to words says enough.

No contradiction if I believe you scum.

Are you hunting me as symp or killer? seems like you're certain I'm both.

[Serc]

Bendal Home, on 21 October 2016 - 11:31 AM, said:

Serc, on 21 October 2016 - 11:28 AM, said:

Bendal Home, on 21 October 2016 - 11:26 AM, said:

Well I could see either Serc or Mockra to be the killer. Your case on Mockra is good, and is where I want to vote, but I still think Serc is scum too. I'd vote either of them tbh.

I am not a symp, so but don't expect you to take my word for it.

If the symp is dead, then either Serc or Mockra could be Aranatha's partner because they've both done things that sway away from Ara. The lack of anything from Mockra today sees me suspect him more, and I don't think Serc's vote should be looked at. Telas is wifoming himself over it.



If one thing you are certain of is I am not Aranatha's partner, which I am not, then as long as we lynch one of Serc/Mockra we should still have a tomorrow. My only worry is that we do, you or Gait get killed, and they choose me to be lynched tomorrow which wouldn't make sense but you could see happening.

If you decide Serc should be lynched I'll vote that way, but as I have said, I prefer Mockra today.

Hiding behind Kesso again.

Vote Serc


I cannot be arsed dilly dallying around. I like either option. Serc or Mockra, i'll switch if needed.

You know what? screw it.

I should have voted you first when I caught on to your attempt to push the lynch on me. I thought it meant more to disprove your attempt to lync me to whats clearly your symp.

Remove Vote

Vote Bendal Home

[Bendal Home]

First bit of reaction from you Serc at being voted. I'll take that.

[Telas]

Well now. Well now.

I really want to hear from Mockra now.

[Telas]

What's really bugging me now is Bendals insistence that mockra was the killer with serc as the symp.
With serc finally putting his money where his mouth is and voting Bendal that puts my symp theory in the gutter quite effectively. I'm going to go back and read the Arantha lynch again, I should have a half hour here now

[Telas]

Mockra, on 20 October 2016 - 01:06 PM, said:

Serc, on 20 October 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

Shit forgot there might be a symp. ok I'm not crazy about that 50% as I know I'm town and thats a loss for us.

Does anyone think we already hit symp?

the only player the town voted was Omtose who had one post.

Eloth (another one post wonder) was modkilled.

You're basically asking if Mess was symp. I wouldn't count on it. In fact, it'd be ridiculously dumb to count on it.

Further over thinking.
This is mockra telling serc his symp is still alive.

Grimm.

Again I'm likely guilty of over thinking, but serc has been central in nearly all my musings today. I think we still have a reasonable bit of time left.
Want to hear from Mockra before laying my final vote.

[Kessobahn]

Telas, on 21 October 2016 - 01:24 PM, said:

Mockra, on 20 October 2016 - 01:06 PM, said:

Serc, on 20 October 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

Shit forgot there might be a symp. ok I'm not crazy about that 50% as I know I'm town and thats a loss for us.

Does anyone think we already hit symp?

the only player the town voted was Omtose who had one post.

Eloth (another one post wonder) was modkilled.

You're basically asking if Mess was symp. I wouldn't count on it. In fact, it'd be ridiculously dumb to count on it.

Further over thinking.
This is mockra telling serc his symp is still alive.

Grimm.

Again I'm likely guilty of over thinking, but serc has been central in nearly all my musings today. I think we still have a reasonable bit of time left.
Want to hear from Mockra before laying my final vote.

What do you think about Serc's apparent ignorance? He's stated several errors about what's happened in the game which had to be corrected. The biggest example being not realising Liosan was dead. As someone who loves mistakes as tells, I was surprised you weren't all over that. Is it genuine or really laying it on thickly?

[Mockra]

Back. Eating. (Subway brekky sandwich with egg, cheese and bacon).

Gonna start catching up soon. Be warned: i'm on phone, so it's gonna be dkt-style, b/c multiquoutes with a touchscreen sucks giant elephant balls (did I mention I loathe touchscreens with a passion that transcends all reason?)

So, stay tuned

[Serc]

Kessobahn, on 21 October 2016 - 01:31 PM, said:

Telas, on 21 October 2016 - 01:24 PM, said:

Mockra, on 20 October 2016 - 01:06 PM, said:

Serc, on 20 October 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

Shit forgot there might be a symp. ok I'm not crazy about that 50% as I know I'm town and thats a loss for us.

Does anyone think we already hit symp?

the only player the town voted was Omtose who had one post.

Eloth (another one post wonder) was modkilled.

You're basically asking if Mess was symp. I wouldn't count on it. In fact, it'd be ridiculously dumb to count on it.

Further over thinking.
This is mockra telling serc his symp is still alive.

Grimm.

Again I'm likely guilty of over thinking, but serc has been central in nearly all my musings today. I think we still have a reasonable bit of time left.
Want to hear from Mockra before laying my final vote.

What do you think about Serc's apparent ignorance? He's stated several errors about what's happened in the game which had to be corrected. The biggest example being not realising Liosan was dead. As someone who loves mistakes as tells, I was surprised you weren't all over that. Is it genuine or really laying it on thickly?

How do you see it helping me as scum, being off the lynch train, missing the NA entirely then missing Bendals remove vote in the midst of the ton of comments, a miss telas himself missed aswell?

[Mockra]

Bendal Home, on 21 October 2016 - 08:03 AM, said:

Now here is the interesting part. You vote Aranatha.

Telas, on 18 October 2016 - 09:02 AM, said:

Doesn't wash General, there's been nothing but bullshit posted by anyone so far.

That said I'm more interested in Aranthas snappy reply about how he would have voted if he cared.

vote Arantha

Talk to me bitch

Before I see reactions from others, Gait pointed this out..

Aranatha, on 18 October 2016 - 12:48 PM, said:

Present.
"Bitch," is it?

I liked it better when I was the "loveable" Village Idiot.

So now that I'm channeling Mother Dark I'm a "bitch" to her inferiors.



All my replies are "snappy." Get used to it, Serc. <--Telas.

This could be that Serc is actually Ara's partner, that is why he has Serc on his mind when he replies to you. It is a possibility but rubbishes my symp reasoning above.

12 hours left in the day. One vote for Omtose and one for Aranatha (scum)

day one is always temperamental and it could sway any which way.

So, what do scum do? Well first..

Why this vote Telas?

Mockra, on 18 October 2016 - 02:52 PM, said:

Morning, all.

Still no Liosan? This is getting odd.

vote Liosan


Come out an play with us!

Liosan is facing modkill, and if he does come out, which he did, Mockra will just remove. I think he voted that way to put another option on the board.

Then Serc follows my Omtose vote. Now other people have already stated that they find my vote odd, so why would Serc follow it?


This was Tuesday, I do not think I returned for the rest of the day as it was my birthday and I was doing family stuff.

continued...

Right, here we go.

I ignored the bits about Serc answering 3 people in banter- I am not Serc's keeper, so if you feel that's something, go nuts. I will point out that the good old 90s were 20 years ago, and it's quite possible for the youn'uns not to know a 2ihit wonder. Especially I they don't have to listen to the Six Flags commercial a lot, being on a diff. Continent and all. But w/e.

Now, why I voted Liosan? Because I always like to give low posters a prod. Especially with 12 hours left in the day still. i'm not cagey with Day 1 votes, it's what Day 1 is for.

A ton of your "case" actually hinges on the fact that me and Aranatha spoke a lot about each other. No shit, by Day 2 we were the only North Americans left, and the other 2 (JPK and Bliss) contributed a sum total of 2 posts to the thread. So yes, I talked a bunch to the person who was on. And I voted at a similar times. Because that's how timezones and play/work schedules work.

[Mockra]

Bendal Home, on 21 October 2016 - 08:13 AM, said:

Known scum

Aranatha, on 18 October 2016 - 10:09 PM, said:

Omtose is getting railroaded. He/she may be IMPORTANT.

Not gonna join the monkeypile. I'll take the fall if I have to.

but he did join the monkeypile as he calls it.

Mockra, on 18 October 2016 - 10:31 PM, said:

Omtose got 3 votes for not playing.

As much as I always relish the prospect of removing dead weight early, the Aranatha and KF votes should be looked at more before doing that.

I should be able to vote later on the way home now, need to to look @ a house in 30 min.

Here Mockra states that we should look at the scum vote and KF vote before removing Omtose...

DOES HE DO THAT?

Mockra, on 19 October 2016 - 12:17 AM, said:

I've gotta leave in 10 mins and I won't be back till timeout.

vote Omtose.

At least we might get rid of dead weight.

Nope, he says he has to leave and adds to the Omtose vote.

This puts only one option on the table for the lynch.

Scummy hammer with an hour left to go

Aranatha, on 19 October 2016 - 12:20 AM, said:

Screw it. Let the chips fall where they may.

Vote Omtose

I did not influence the latter stages of the day, I was not around, Serc created Omtose as the forerunner because Aranatha also had a vote and the way some people were thinking it was dangerous to leave him as an option.

I do love it so when people start doing a case that's supposedly including all of the player's posts, but then "omit" a "useless" post that set context to what the player is doing.

You are doing a lovely job quoting my Tuesday posts. I love the caps "BUT DOES HE?", very dramatic.

Except your scummy ass "omitted" my post no 75, where I told Gait that I was basically half-asleep that entire day, trying to survive work, and that I'd try to play better tomorrow (Wednesday).

So, no, I didn't look at other Day 1 votes. I came on 2 hours before timeout and put a non-entity @ L-1. On Day 1. The horror

[Mockra]

Bendal Home, on 21 October 2016 - 08:18 AM, said:

Telas, on 21 October 2016 - 08:09 AM, said:

Bendal do us all a favour and just stop with requoting again and again, it is painful to read, give us a summary, bearing in mind serc is highly unlikely to be mockra's symp, given the second vote putting him in danger of a lover hammer, and the fact that there is an alternative train that he has acknowledged as viable but will not follow.

You are wrong. Your fucking wrong and its embarrassing. Two games in a row, at least your taking the time to think things through. Oh wait, you're not and you are not even trying. It's a scummy trait but I think I am right, and I am still looking through to see what went down.

He was never in danger of a lover hammer, because as you say, 4 fucking votes needed. 4, not 3.

What prompted him to vote Mockra? What went down for him to do that? How can he turn round and say that's easy and vote Mockra, because none of this is easy. Symp may be dead, but we are working off WCS and have to assume he is alive.

You out me as what, a killer? Aranatha's partner? then why did he snip at me day one, and why was I not around day end?

I am moving on to day 2, but day one is usually quite telling because they think they aren't going to die, and can mingle better amongst the banter and foolery.

If we are to believe you, Aranatha "snipped" at me Day 2, why not you Day 1?

As for why you weren't around end of Day: you told us, it was your b-day,

[Mockra]

Gait, on 21 October 2016 - 08:37 AM, said:

These were votes after Aranathas two fuckups and Telas voting for Aranatha and vice versa

Both vote elsewhere with questionable reasons

Although reading the back and forth between Mockra and Arrivenatha it doesn't much look like they were partners

Mockra, on 19 October 2016 - 10:56 PM, said:

Okay, it's almost time for me to go. I gotta vote before I go.

Gait got 2 votes
Aranatha is voting Telas, b/c Telas is voting Aranatha

Telas appears to be voting based on gut again. Keeping in mind how that worked out last game, I'd rather not follow his gut.

Aranatha is all over the place, and his vote is OMGUS everyone I talking about him, so i'm pencillin him as "symp at worst" column, but IGMEOY

Now, Gait vote is based on a case. One that implicates me, as it happens. I obviously don't agree with suggestion that I'm symp, but Bendal ties too many people together in that post for us to simply ignore.

So I'll

vote Gait

And if he CFs inno, i'll be taking a long hard look at Liosan (again)

Bendal Home, on 20 October 2016 - 08:24 AM, said:

Look at these three posts from Mockra today.

Mockra, on 19 October 2016 - 01:52 PM, said:

@ work, having gotten decent amount of sleep, and I can feel the blessed caffeine seeping through my system, getting shit in gear. Have to be productive fo work but should have some time to play.

having re-read the whole of 3 pages we have, really not liking Lio atm. He's posted 3 quotes by Aranatha,presenting them as "consecutive", omitting at least as many in his back and forth with Kesso. If that's not strawmanning, I don't know what is.

Couple that with his "signal-fishing" yesterday against me (pet peeve: I hate the "well, X feels scummy, but I don't know why" posts. In my experience, people tend to make those accusations for a few days, and then start screaming bloody murder that X is scum because they're too "smooth under all that pressure".), and he's looking quite shady in my books.

Mockra, on 19 October 2016 - 08:19 PM, said:

Gait, on 19 October 2016 - 07:19 PM, said:

I agree with most of what you say Bendal and, although I can see how, you've got to a wrong conclusion.

There's not much to Liosan for me. Mockra is there anything else aside from the signalling prod you don't like about them? Bendal, what did you not like about them and how did it change on reread?

Also I think you're leaning towards Telas being town too quickly. But it seems to be an error in my thinking too.

I already mentioned, his cherry-picking of Aranatha's quotes without context stinks of strawmanning.

Mockra, on 19 October 2016 - 08:36 PM, said:

Thinking on it, I actually like Bendal's kesso-Lio pairing for killers. Because Kesso DID actually do the about face switch that Lio accused Aranatha of (when it came to voting Omtose)

Kessobahn, on 18 October 2016 - 11:53 PM, said:

Three hours left and I don't see a lynch happening. I actually quite like Gait's pick up on Kadagar, though probably not quite enough to vote for it. I'm tempted to vote for the everpresent Omtose for giggles, but that wouldn't be mature. Aranatha I see as a symp at worst, in which case I should vote for Omtose over them, but that's also currently based on very little other than me poking them. Liosan's vote on Gait I don't really get - wasn't their beef with Mockra?

And their very next post:

Kessobahn, on 19 October 2016 - 12:15 AM, said:

Meh. I've seen worse reasons.

Vote Omtose

Mockra, on 19 October 2016 - 10:56 PM, said:

Okay, it's almost time for me to go. I gotta vote before I go.

Gait got 2 votes
Aranatha is voting Telas, b/c Telas is voting Aranatha

Telas appears to be voting based on gut again. Keeping in mind how that worked out last game, I'd rather not follow his gut.

Aranatha is all over the place, and his vote is OMGUS everyone I talking about him, so i'm pencillin him as "symp at worst" column, but IGMEOY

Now, Gait vote is based on a case. One that implicates me, as it happens. I obviously don't agree with suggestion that I'm symp, but Bendal ties too many people together in that post for us to simply ignore.

So I'll

vote Gait

And if he CFs inno, i'll be taking a long hard look at Liosan (again)

Er, what the actual fuck.


All day pointing his finger at Liosan and then votes Gait even though the case involves him signalling Gait. This to show or "prove" that Gait is not his master? Fuck, I really wanted to move away from Gait but I do not think I can or should.

Vote Gait

Mockra says he doesn't want to follow Tela's gut but Tela's vote had little to do with gut and Mockra later calls it a vote based on his proven scum "tell", that seems to be contradicting

Edit: posted first quote twice

Re: Telas. He calls it "gut", but he gives the same reason every time "the tell".

I don't happen to agree with him. I feel his method is flawed, b/c town players make mistakes and admit them just as often as scum.

Nevertheless, when it comes to meta-play, it's a reliable indicator of Telas' consistency.
Hope I cleared that up for you.

[Kessobahn]

Serc, on 21 October 2016 - 01:41 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 21 October 2016 - 01:31 PM, said:

Telas, on 21 October 2016 - 01:24 PM, said:

Mockra, on 20 October 2016 - 01:06 PM, said:

Serc, on 20 October 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

Shit forgot there might be a symp. ok I'm not crazy about that 50% as I know I'm town and thats a loss for us.

Does anyone think we already hit symp?

the only player the town voted was Omtose who had one post.

Eloth (another one post wonder) was modkilled.

You're basically asking if Mess was symp. I wouldn't count on it. In fact, it'd be ridiculously dumb to count on it.

Further over thinking.
This is mockra telling serc his symp is still alive.

Grimm.

Again I'm likely guilty of over thinking, but serc has been central in nearly all my musings today. I think we still have a reasonable bit of time left.
Want to hear from Mockra before laying my final vote.

What do you think about Serc's apparent ignorance? He's stated several errors about what's happened in the game which had to be corrected. The biggest example being not realising Liosan was dead. As someone who loves mistakes as tells, I was surprised you weren't all over that. Is it genuine or really laying it on thickly?

How do you see it helping me as scum, being off the lynch train, missing the NA entirely then missing Bendals remove vote in the midst of the ton of comments, a miss telas himself missed aswell?

I don't.

[Mockra]

Bendal Home, on 21 October 2016 - 08:44 AM, said:

Start of day 2. Serc's partner or Master is his first breath.

Serc, on 19 October 2016 - 04:50 AM, said:

Very weird. Guess LB hit some tech issues?

Speaking of which hey Lio, 'sup. Good to have you in on the game.


Well reading up I'm interested in several people.


Aranatha has had plenty of pressure day 1 but in general I'm not sure on what grounds. Sorting through a few posts there seems to be alot of different agendas there?

In one situation we had Kesso curious about Aranathas reaction to Omtose, something like "hey why is Aranatha defending Omtose?" Then Telas arguing Aranatha is scummy because he made a snappy reply when holding back a vote. Both Kesso and Telas riled Aranatha up, baiting.

I'm not seeing the substance to this. if anything I just see the two working together trying to see what sticks.

Then there's that vote on Gait. I got the case built up on Kadagar. I'd say we had lazier votes, mine wasn't exactly stellar but I see what Gait was driving at.
Liosan made some strange stretches on Gait. I was pretty sure Mockra made more sense but then Mockra explained it so...yeah.

Kesso, I'm surprised to see, was on the Omtose lynch train, Seemed negative when I was on, focused on the whole Aranatha bit. not really clear what changed his mind?

Well those are my thoughts, off to work. Might pop back in around lunch time.

Cheers.

This is scummy, given that Aranatha was scum.

Now at this stage, what did I think, well in my PM I said...

I am paraphrasing instead of quoting but I said this...

"Today I want to lynch kesso

Telas and Aranatha are lovers and is why I am not looking at them

One of Mockra, Lio or Gait is scum (fucking 2 out of 3 were roled so something must have ticked)

kesso, Mockra, Lio and gait on my scum read so far

I need a cf for further clues"

Bendal Home, on 19 October 2016 - 08:15 AM, said:

Had a busy day yesterday, after my last post I did not log in until now. Not surprised we lynched but I am surprised there was nothing from Omtose in return. Going to do a little read up of day one and see if anything jumps out. Most probably not at this stage.

This is my first post of day 2. Yet my second post is a case, throwing a few people into the mix, I also asked Aranatha why the need for self preservation?

Now what about Mockra's, did he look further into the Aranatha vote like he said he would? No. Who is he not liking?

Lio, Lio who not only dislikes Aranatha but also pointed out Mockra's "now you know" post.

Mockra, on 19 October 2016 - 01:52 PM, said:

@ work, having gotten decent amount of sleep, and I can feel the blessed caffeine seeping through my system, getting shit in gear. Have to be productive fo work but should have some time to play.

having re-read the whole of 3 pages we have, really not liking Lio atm. He's posted 3 quotes by Aranatha,presenting them as "consecutive", omitting at least as many in his back and forth with Kesso. If that's not strawmanning, I don't know what is.

Couple that with his "signal-fishing" yesterday against me (pet peeve: I hate the "well, X feels scummy, but I don't know why" posts. In my experience, people tend to make those accusations for a few days, and then start screaming bloody murder that X is scum because they're too "smooth under all that pressure".), and he's looking quite shady in my books.

Aranatha votes Mockra. Out of the blue. For a possible signal, because Mockra said it was a signal. Which in turn asks us to ask the question why the signallee over the master, it also gets us looking at Mockra as a potential symp over a killer, and certainly distances Aranatha from Mockra.

Aranatha, on 19 October 2016 - 07:50 PM, said:

Mockra, on 18 October 2016 - 10:28 PM, said:

Liosan, on 18 October 2016 - 09:04 PM, said:

Mockra, on 17 October 2016 - 03:17 PM, said:

Gait, on 17 October 2016 - 03:11 PM, said:

Me not really either. And I understand why have canals when you can have roads just a few miles farther in the first place.

According to Age of Empires II, Venice was founded by refugees from a Roman city (that started with "A") that was sacked by Attila, who were desperate to find a secure and defensible place to live.

...And now you know...

Am I the only one whose spidey sense is tingling when they read something like AND NOW YOU KNOW at the end of the post?

If you want to accuse me of signalling or something how about you just do that, rather doing the smoke and mirrors and "this is SOMEHOW SUSPICIOUS!!!1" bit?

remove vote

Since you bothered to show up.

Kessobahn, on 19 October 2016 - 04:47 PM, said:

Yes, I too am feeling let down. Everyone else should post more and better!

@ Bendal: Regarding your case...it's about possible signalling, which I never have the hots for, simply because I'd never do it myself.

I don't do it either, but the fact remains that some people are doing it all the time. I don't know how often they're caught doing it, but I'd pretty much expect to be caught if I did do it. So I don't.


}Now you know" seems particularly cryptic to be taken for a signal, but Liosan never said he read it as a signal, just something that made his "spidey Senses tingle." Mockra said Liosan was seeing a signal that wasn't there. So just maybe - it was.

Vote Mockra

It isn't because Mockra is jittery either, because Gaot makes him explain his vote...

Aranatha, on 19 October 2016 - 08:21 PM, said:

Gait, on 19 October 2016 - 08:12 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 19 October 2016 - 08:05 PM, said:

Well, you've run rings around me logically, there...

I'll wait on Mokra's predictably vehement reply.

What I'm getting at is the only role to feel to need to make signals is symp signalling to his masters. Hence if you believe it might be a signal you will logically vote the one the presumed signal was aimed at because he is likely one of the presumed symp's masters. So I'm asking why are you voting presumed symp over a presumed master?

Because I'm not assuming that the signal (if it's a signal) is necessarily directed at the player (you) to whom Mockra replied to.

He is painting Mockra as a symp and we never lynch a symp suspect over a killer.

Mockra, on 19 October 2016 - 08:26 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 19 October 2016 - 07:58 PM, said:

I'm voting Mockra because he was so forceful in denying a specific accusation that was never even made.

I assumed that was the accusation. I am giving Lio the benefit of the doubt that he actually had a reason to point me out, rather than shoot the shit, or, as he ended up putting it, "genuinely sanity-checking" himself. I was wrong, I forgot Rule 1: Assume everyone else playing is an idiot.

And now you're voting me, because... I purposefully drew attention to the fact I'm signalling? Is that it?

I don't think that even merits on OMGUs at this point

Mockra is very calm here, probably knowing his partner won't push. Also no vote back.

What is very interesting here is this

Aranatha, on 19 October 2016 - 08:38 PM, said:

Mockra, on 19 October 2016 - 08:28 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 19 October 2016 - 08:21 PM, said:

Gait, on 19 October 2016 - 08:12 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 19 October 2016 - 08:05 PM, said:

Well, you've run rings around me logically, there...

I'll wait on Mokra's predictably vehement reply.

What I'm getting at is the only role to feel to need to make signals is symp signalling to his masters. Hence if you believe it might be a signal you will logically vote the one the presumed signal was aimed at because he is likely one of the presumed symp's masters. So I'm asking why are you voting presumed symp over a presumed master?

Because I'm not assuming that the signal (if it's a signal) is necessarily directed at the player (you) to whom Mockra replied to.

Now you're just WIFOMing for the sake of WIFOMing. ONLy merit to making a symp case is if you ca point at the master (and vote the master). There's no way proving anyone's a symp, b/c they'll CF RI anyways.

It's not like a weak case is unheard of around here, is it? I have an excuse for my stupidity which I'll gladly share at the end of the game.

Remove Vote

There you go, he says it himself. Out of scum's mouth

So what we establish here is...

*drum roll*





I don't like BS cases. Yes, okay, I don't. I don't give a toss who it's on, a BS case hurts town, by making us rely on false assumptions.

Lio did omit Aranatha's posts in his quote. He did do the I-still-don't-know-what-the-fuck-it-was "sanity-checking" thing, and then jumped like a bloodhound on my confused response. I didn't like how Lio played, and I will stand by that assertion, regardless of his CF.

The other thing you are accusing me of is not throwing a tantrum after Aranatha made a BS case and put one vote on me. Out of 5 needed.

I'm sorry, I'm not Vengy. I don't get tantrums, I prefer to use sarcasm to take BS cases apart. It's a stylistic preference, sorry if I don't live up to your lofty expectations.

[Mockra]

Bendal Home, on 21 October 2016 - 08:51 AM, said:

Serc, on 20 October 2016 - 06:04 AM, said:

Reading through the thread I guess I can't look at every single vote as that's wishy washy.
Were I to focus on everyone I'd look like drunk town so I'm gonna try for a middle ground.

I'm settled on the Lio/Mockra/Gait situation being discussed today. I do think scum would be somewhere in this group. Looking at the case posed by Lio I can't argue with the Vote on Gait.
There might be something to the signalling case.

Liosan, on 19 October 2016 - 09:40 PM, said:

Okay, I'm here. Someone asked why did I check in so late: tech issues. My home internet has been really flaky. Still not great today but usable.

Now, back to the point. Hey Mockra, I was actually wondering if either you, Gait, or Aranatha will take my post about Aranatha's wobbliness and try to twist it around. And look, here you did it, thanks!

Mockra, on 19 October 2016 - 01:52 PM, said:

@ work, having gotten decent amount of sleep, and I can feel the blessed caffeine seeping through my system, getting shit in gear. Have to be productive fo work but should have some time to play.

having re-read the whole of 3 pages we have, really not liking Lio atm. He's posted 3 quotes by Aranatha,presenting them as "consecutive", omitting at least as many in his back and forth with Kesso. If that's not strawmanning, I don't know what is.

Couple that with his "signal-fishing" yesterday against me (pet peeve: I hate the "well, X feels scummy, but I don't know why" posts. In my experience, people tend to make those accusations for a few days, and then start screaming bloody murder that X is scum because they're too "smooth under all that pressure".), and he's looking quite shady in my books.

I never said the posts I were referring to were consecutive. I specifically wrote _ALMOST post after post_. It's easy enough to try to paint this as lying/half-truth/strawmanning, which you are doing right now. Funny how defensive you get over my slightest mention of suspicion about Gait or Aranatha. The only benefit of the doubt I give you is that I don't think it could be that obvious.

Apart from Mockra's trying to divert attention from Gait or Aranatha, one thing that caugh my eye on a reread was Serc's post that opened D2:

Serc, on 19 October 2016 - 04:50 AM, said:

Very weird. Guess LB hit some tech issues?

Speaking of which hey Lio, 'sup. Good to have you in on the game.


Well reading up I'm interested in several people.


Aranatha has had plenty of pressure day 1 but in general I'm not sure on what grounds. Sorting through a few posts there seems to be alot of different agendas there?

In one situation we had Kesso curious about Aranathas reaction to Omtose, something like "hey why is Aranatha defending Omtose?" Then Telas arguing Aranatha is scummy because he made a snappy reply when holding back a vote. Both Kesso and Telas riled Aranatha up, baiting.

I'm not seeing the substance to this. if anything I just see the two working together trying to see what sticks.

Then there's that vote on Gait. I got the case built up on Kadagar. I'd say we had lazier votes, mine wasn't exactly stellar but I see what Gait was driving at.
Liosan made some strange stretches on Gait. I was pretty sure Mockra made more sense but then Mockra explained it so...yeah.

Kesso, I'm surprised to see, was on the Omtose lynch train, Seemed negative when I was on, focused on the whole Aranatha bit. not really clear what changed his mind?

Well those are my thoughts, off to work. Might pop back in around lunch time.

Cheers.

If I were to point my finger to one thing here that stands out as scummy, I couldn't. But this is the type of post I love writing when I'm scum: lots of stuff, as many nicknames as possible squeezed in, vague suspicion and one-sentece summaries of people's play, but without any specific direction or anything to sink your teeth in. Smokescreen all the way. That said, I'm terrible at playing scum (and not much better town) so my playstyle preference might not be a great hint to follow

I'm online for a bit more today. Will be at work at timeout, but should be able to drop by at morning or lunch. Sadly new job leaves me much less space for Mafia in the office.

For now sticking to my guns, reinforced by Mockra's behavior.

vote Gait

This post has some good points but I don't put much stock in the "trap" you set on Mockra. It's the kind of thing I'd feel too premeditated for Town.

the other problem I have is how you just throw me into the fray. biased opinion I know, but first you look at Mockra and the possible signaling he might be leveling on Gait leading you to a Gait Vote but you then go out of your way to include me in the discussion before landing your Vote on Gait.

The case again is on me playing wishy washy on thread. If I recall correctly we have quite a few players diving one way then the next, Kesso and Arathan come to mind straight off the bat.

I feel like you're either baiting me of setting me up for the inevitable "Oh hey that Gait thing didn't work so what about that Serc character I mentioned earlier? what's up with him?"

Nope. I don't trust it.

Vote Liosan

So out of the LIO/Gait/Mockra situation Serc is the one to vote Lio, and says he set a trap on Mockra. Good choice of words there. You cannot trap town, but you can trap scum.

I guess you never heard of crooked cops and entrapment. Good for you.

[Mockra]

Kessobahn, on 21 October 2016 - 09:02 AM, said:

Yes, it's almost like Serc is not Mockra's symp or Bendal'a symp...or indeed, any kind of symp at all.

We have to assume there's a symp to play WCS. But no, the way the conversation is going, it's highly questionable if there still is one.

[Mockra]

Bendal Home, on 21 October 2016 - 09:05 AM, said:

Telas, on 21 October 2016 - 08:57 AM, said:

Ok bend I am reading what you're throwing out.

But it stumbles, Massively stumbles, on your insistence that serc is mockra's symp. Not possible, came in hard after your vote with a follow up vote left him hanging for 2 quick fire votes to drop him. I was around, one if the lovers could easily have been there. Bam mockra dead, serc loses.
Absolutely no sale.
However I did like your pick of the mockra voting after serc and Arantha voted. That would be symp play, that brings me back to a possible situation. Of mockra symping serc.
Again serc is the common denominator. Need to get on laptop.

The problem I have with what you are saying is that you are looking at current plays. Scum has been outed so scum will want to convince you somehow, what better way than to confuse you. Look at his wording in the post. I can just see him say let's fuck with Telas' head.

That's why going back and reading with the knowledge of Ara's CF is better for us. You can see places were there is defence of ara. Serc could be Ara's partner, I haven't discounted that, all it does is rubbish those 2 quoted posts at the beginning of day one. Serc's first posts.

You make some sense, but about 3/4 of your "case" are based not on what I said, but what Serc is saying, and how you interpret that about me. Which makes your case flawed, as I can't tell you what' what' inside another player's head.