[Bendal Home]

Gait, on 21 October 2016 - 08:37 AM, said:

These were votes after Aranathas two fuckups and Telas voting for Aranatha and vice versa

Both vote elsewhere with questionable reasons

Although reading the back and forth between Mockra and Arrivenatha it doesn't much look like they were partners

Mockra, on 19 October 2016 - 10:56 PM, said:

Okay, it's almost time for me to go. I gotta vote before I go.

Gait got 2 votes
Aranatha is voting Telas, b/c Telas is voting Aranatha

Telas appears to be voting based on gut again. Keeping in mind how that worked out last game, I'd rather not follow his gut.

Aranatha is all over the place, and his vote is OMGUS everyone I talking about him, so i'm pencillin him as "symp at worst" column, but IGMEOY

Now, Gait vote is based on a case. One that implicates me, as it happens. I obviously don't agree with suggestion that I'm symp, but Bendal ties too many people together in that post for us to simply ignore.

So I'll

vote Gait

And if he CFs inno, i'll be taking a long hard look at Liosan (again)

Bendal Home, on 20 October 2016 - 08:24 AM, said:

Look at these three posts from Mockra today.

Mockra, on 19 October 2016 - 01:52 PM, said:

@ work, having gotten decent amount of sleep, and I can feel the blessed caffeine seeping through my system, getting shit in gear. Have to be productive fo work but should have some time to play.

having re-read the whole of 3 pages we have, really not liking Lio atm. He's posted 3 quotes by Aranatha,presenting them as "consecutive", omitting at least as many in his back and forth with Kesso. If that's not strawmanning, I don't know what is.

Couple that with his "signal-fishing" yesterday against me (pet peeve: I hate the "well, X feels scummy, but I don't know why" posts. In my experience, people tend to make those accusations for a few days, and then start screaming bloody murder that X is scum because they're too "smooth under all that pressure".), and he's looking quite shady in my books.

Mockra, on 19 October 2016 - 08:19 PM, said:

Gait, on 19 October 2016 - 07:19 PM, said:

I agree with most of what you say Bendal and, although I can see how, you've got to a wrong conclusion.

There's not much to Liosan for me. Mockra is there anything else aside from the signalling prod you don't like about them? Bendal, what did you not like about them and how did it change on reread?

Also I think you're leaning towards Telas being town too quickly. But it seems to be an error in my thinking too.

I already mentioned, his cherry-picking of Aranatha's quotes without context stinks of strawmanning.

Mockra, on 19 October 2016 - 08:36 PM, said:

Thinking on it, I actually like Bendal's kesso-Lio pairing for killers. Because Kesso DID actually do the about face switch that Lio accused Aranatha of (when it came to voting Omtose)

Kessobahn, on 18 October 2016 - 11:53 PM, said:

Three hours left and I don't see a lynch happening. I actually quite like Gait's pick up on Kadagar, though probably not quite enough to vote for it. I'm tempted to vote for the everpresent Omtose for giggles, but that wouldn't be mature. Aranatha I see as a symp at worst, in which case I should vote for Omtose over them, but that's also currently based on very little other than me poking them. Liosan's vote on Gait I don't really get - wasn't their beef with Mockra?

And their very next post:

Kessobahn, on 19 October 2016 - 12:15 AM, said:

Meh. I've seen worse reasons.

Vote Omtose

Mockra, on 19 October 2016 - 10:56 PM, said:

Okay, it's almost time for me to go. I gotta vote before I go.

Gait got 2 votes
Aranatha is voting Telas, b/c Telas is voting Aranatha

Telas appears to be voting based on gut again. Keeping in mind how that worked out last game, I'd rather not follow his gut.

Aranatha is all over the place, and his vote is OMGUS everyone I talking about him, so i'm pencillin him as "symp at worst" column, but IGMEOY

Now, Gait vote is based on a case. One that implicates me, as it happens. I obviously don't agree with suggestion that I'm symp, but Bendal ties too many people together in that post for us to simply ignore.

So I'll

vote Gait

And if he CFs inno, i'll be taking a long hard look at Liosan (again)

Er, what the actual fuck.


All day pointing his finger at Liosan and then votes Gait even though the case involves him signalling Gait. This to show or "prove" that Gait is not his master? Fuck, I really wanted to move away from Gait but I do not think I can or should.

Vote Gait

Mockra says he doesn't want to follow Tela's gut but Tela's vote had little to do with gut and Mockra later calls it a vote based on his proven scum "tell", that seems to be contradicting

Edit: posted first quote twice

I am just up to that part now, I won't over quote you, seem as you found it first.

[Kessobahn]

@ Bendal:

Yes, I thought about the same possibility of distancing voting when I read through it last night. It's a tricky one. It did throw more attention on both of them than they would have wanted IF it had been planned. Would they take that risk?

[Bendal Home]

Serc, on 20 October 2016 - 06:04 AM, said:

Reading through the thread I guess I can't look at every single vote as that's wishy washy.
Were I to focus on everyone I'd look like drunk town so I'm gonna try for a middle ground.

I'm settled on the Lio/Mockra/Gait situation being discussed today. I do think scum would be somewhere in this group. Looking at the case posed by Lio I can't argue with the Vote on Gait.
There might be something to the signalling case.

Liosan, on 19 October 2016 - 09:40 PM, said:

Okay, I'm here. Someone asked why did I check in so late: tech issues. My home internet has been really flaky. Still not great today but usable.

Now, back to the point. Hey Mockra, I was actually wondering if either you, Gait, or Aranatha will take my post about Aranatha's wobbliness and try to twist it around. And look, here you did it, thanks!

Mockra, on 19 October 2016 - 01:52 PM, said:

@ work, having gotten decent amount of sleep, and I can feel the blessed caffeine seeping through my system, getting shit in gear. Have to be productive fo work but should have some time to play.

having re-read the whole of 3 pages we have, really not liking Lio atm. He's posted 3 quotes by Aranatha,presenting them as "consecutive", omitting at least as many in his back and forth with Kesso. If that's not strawmanning, I don't know what is.

Couple that with his "signal-fishing" yesterday against me (pet peeve: I hate the "well, X feels scummy, but I don't know why" posts. In my experience, people tend to make those accusations for a few days, and then start screaming bloody murder that X is scum because they're too "smooth under all that pressure".), and he's looking quite shady in my books.

I never said the posts I were referring to were consecutive. I specifically wrote _ALMOST post after post_. It's easy enough to try to paint this as lying/half-truth/strawmanning, which you are doing right now. Funny how defensive you get over my slightest mention of suspicion about Gait or Aranatha. The only benefit of the doubt I give you is that I don't think it could be that obvious.

Apart from Mockra's trying to divert attention from Gait or Aranatha, one thing that caugh my eye on a reread was Serc's post that opened D2:

Serc, on 19 October 2016 - 04:50 AM, said:

Very weird. Guess LB hit some tech issues?

Speaking of which hey Lio, 'sup. Good to have you in on the game.


Well reading up I'm interested in several people.


Aranatha has had plenty of pressure day 1 but in general I'm not sure on what grounds. Sorting through a few posts there seems to be alot of different agendas there?

In one situation we had Kesso curious about Aranathas reaction to Omtose, something like "hey why is Aranatha defending Omtose?" Then Telas arguing Aranatha is scummy because he made a snappy reply when holding back a vote. Both Kesso and Telas riled Aranatha up, baiting.

I'm not seeing the substance to this. if anything I just see the two working together trying to see what sticks.

Then there's that vote on Gait. I got the case built up on Kadagar. I'd say we had lazier votes, mine wasn't exactly stellar but I see what Gait was driving at.
Liosan made some strange stretches on Gait. I was pretty sure Mockra made more sense but then Mockra explained it so...yeah.

Kesso, I'm surprised to see, was on the Omtose lynch train, Seemed negative when I was on, focused on the whole Aranatha bit. not really clear what changed his mind?

Well those are my thoughts, off to work. Might pop back in around lunch time.

Cheers.

If I were to point my finger to one thing here that stands out as scummy, I couldn't. But this is the type of post I love writing when I'm scum: lots of stuff, as many nicknames as possible squeezed in, vague suspicion and one-sentece summaries of people's play, but without any specific direction or anything to sink your teeth in. Smokescreen all the way. That said, I'm terrible at playing scum (and not much better town) so my playstyle preference might not be a great hint to follow

I'm online for a bit more today. Will be at work at timeout, but should be able to drop by at morning or lunch. Sadly new job leaves me much less space for Mafia in the office.

For now sticking to my guns, reinforced by Mockra's behavior.

vote Gait

This post has some good points but I don't put much stock in the "trap" you set on Mockra. It's the kind of thing I'd feel too premeditated for Town.

the other problem I have is how you just throw me into the fray. biased opinion I know, but first you look at Mockra and the possible signaling he might be leveling on Gait leading you to a Gait Vote but you then go out of your way to include me in the discussion before landing your Vote on Gait.

The case again is on me playing wishy washy on thread. If I recall correctly we have quite a few players diving one way then the next, Kesso and Arathan come to mind straight off the bat.

I feel like you're either baiting me of setting me up for the inevitable "Oh hey that Gait thing didn't work so what about that Serc character I mentioned earlier? what's up with him?"

Nope. I don't trust it.

Vote Liosan

So out of the LIO/Gait/Mockra situation Serc is the one to vote Lio, and says he set a trap on Mockra. Good choice of words there. You cannot trap town, but you can trap scum.

[Bendal Home]

Kessobahn, on 21 October 2016 - 08:50 AM, said:

@ Bendal:

Yes, I thought about the same possibility of distancing voting when I read through it last night. It's a tricky one. It did throw more attention on both of them than they would have wanted IF it had been planned. Would they take that risk?

Aranatha says it himself, that last sentence, he will tell us after the game, a weak case and a reason for doing it. Why would scum create a weak case with a reason behind it? So no one else does I think. No one else votes Mockra after the Ara vote, or for that reason.

[Gait]

Bendal Home, on 21 October 2016 - 08:52 AM, said:

Kessobahn, on 21 October 2016 - 08:50 AM, said:

@ Bendal:

Yes, I thought about the same possibility of distancing voting when I read through it last night. It's a tricky one. It did throw more attention on both of them than they would have wanted IF it had been planned. Would they take that risk?

Aranatha says it himself, that last sentence, he will tell us after the game, a weak case and a reason for doing it. Why would scum create a weak case with a reason behind it? So no one else does I think. No one else votes Mockra after the Ara vote, or for that reason.

Except it's not a weak case but nonsense omgus-inducing case

[Kessobahn]

@ Gait:

I'm not sure that it is particularly contradictory. Telas himself at various points talks about following his gut AND about going for Aranatha because they muddled themselves, i.e. the tell.

[Bendal Home]

Bendal Home, on 20 October 2016 - 10:10 AM, said:

The way they have been behaving I had pegged Telas and Aranatha as lovers. Fuck. This changes a whole lot of point of view.

See, I admit it here, that I thought Telas/Aranatha were lovers. I was wrong obviosuly, but it confirms what I was thinking.

[Telas]

Ok bend I am reading what you're throwing out.

But it stumbles, Massively stumbles, on your insistence that serc is mockra's symp. Not possible, came in hard after your vote with a follow up vote left him hanging for 2 quick fire votes to drop him. I was around, one if the lovers could easily have been there. Bam mockra dead, serc loses.
Absolutely no sale.
However I did like your pick of the mockra voting after serc and Arantha voted. That would be symp play, that brings me back to a possible situation. Of mockra symping serc.
Again serc is the common denominator. Need to get on laptop.

[Bendal Home]

Serc, on 20 October 2016 - 10:51 AM, said:

Ok well looks like curtains for me then.

Too bad, thought I was onto something with the Mockra/Gait/Lio mix.

Then things got confusing, Lovers included. Town still seem to have a good springboard. will cheer for you guys from SH. Hope my CF helps you zero in on scum. the Bendal flip is a bit of a surprise to me so I'd start there.

Telas, here is suicidal Serc wanting people to look at me upon his CF.

[Kessobahn]

Yes, it's almost like Serc is not Mockra's symp or Bendal'a symp...or indeed, any kind of symp at all.

[Bendal Home]

Telas, on 21 October 2016 - 08:57 AM, said:

Ok bend I am reading what you're throwing out.

But it stumbles, Massively stumbles, on your insistence that serc is mockra's symp. Not possible, came in hard after your vote with a follow up vote left him hanging for 2 quick fire votes to drop him. I was around, one if the lovers could easily have been there. Bam mockra dead, serc loses.
Absolutely no sale.
However I did like your pick of the mockra voting after serc and Arantha voted. That would be symp play, that brings me back to a possible situation. Of mockra symping serc.
Again serc is the common denominator. Need to get on laptop.

The problem I have with what you are saying is that you are looking at current plays. Scum has been outed so scum will want to convince you somehow, what better way than to confuse you. Look at his wording in the post. I can just see him say let's fuck with Telas' head.

That's why going back and reading with the knowledge of Ara's CF is better for us. You can see places were there is defence of ara. Serc could be Ara's partner, I haven't discounted that, all it does is rubbish those 2 quoted posts at the beginning of day one. Serc's first posts.

[Gait]

Bendal Home, on 21 October 2016 - 09:01 AM, said:

Serc, on 20 October 2016 - 10:51 AM, said:

Ok well looks like curtains for me then.

Too bad, thought I was onto something with the Mockra/Gait/Lio mix.

Then things got confusing, Lovers included. Town still seem to have a good springboard. will cheer for you guys from SH. Hope my CF helps you zero in on scum. the Bendal flip is a bit of a surprise to me so I'd start there.

Telas, here is suicidal Serc wanting people to look at me upon his CF.

The problem ofcourse was that it was possible D-day so possibly no tomorrow so we couldn't just lynch them because of clearing thread up

[Bendal Home]

I find this interesting, the interaction betwen Serc, Mockra and I, and how they are speaking.

Bendal Home, on 20 October 2016 - 11:41 AM, said:

Okay correct me if I am wrong on Mockra.

He quotes Gait
He quotes Kessobahn
He quotes Me
He votes Liosan, then removes
Votes Omtose
Suspects Lio
Quotes Aranatha
Labels Aranatha a possible symp
mentions Telas voting based on Gut.


No where at all has he interacted with Serc based on "finding his content".

Bendal Home, on 20 October 2016 - 11:46 AM, said:

Serc quotes Mockra, Aranatha, Me, Omtose and Kessobahn but only has Liosan as a suspect. Ie Votes for Liosan, and suspects him, although he did cast a tiny bit of shade on Aranatha and Kesso for seemingly changing direction often.

Here Mockra on Ara

Mockra, on 20 October 2016 - 12:06 PM, said:

Bendal Home, on 20 October 2016 - 11:58 AM, said:

Other than that first quote by Serc on Mockra which is talking about Canals there is little to no interaction between them. Aranatha has been unusually quiet today, scum holding their breath? I'll be back after lunch, in an hour. Pondering things.

Aranatha's posting times suggest he's in NA. It's barely 8 Am here.

Trying to get a read on this before I hit the subway andlose signal. I ought to be I for the last 30 mins before timeout at least

Don't see the need for him to defend Ara's posting time.

Mockra, on 20 October 2016 - 12:08 PM, said:

My honest feeling about Serc yesterday was "hmm. A list. Scum love lists". But that did not seem strong enough to warrant a vote.

Would Mockra as a symp say this about his master? But flip it and he could

Mockra, on 20 October 2016 - 12:16 PM, said:

yes, I can see that. My eyebrow is raised quizzically upon his sudden verbiage as well.

The above was my response to his post implying I was distancing from you.

So Mockra was touchy about this.

[Bendal Home]

Serc, on 20 October 2016 - 12:55 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 20 October 2016 - 12:46 PM, said:

Partway through reading and I think I have my list of suspects cut in half (including myself and Gait). I get (mostly) town vibes from Telas' posting, and I see Bendal as a symp at worst. I think the two killers are within: Aranatha, Liosan, Mockra, and Serc. So 50% chance of hitting killer by lynching one of them. Gonna try to narrow it down further.

Edit: deleted "don't" from 'I get mostly town vibes...'

this I can agree with. If we vote me out that gives you a 60% chance on the remaining.

I can get behind this thinking.

Edit: Check on my maths 66.6 % percent chance. either way good odds to play.

Suicidal Serc strikes again, what's the idea of him trying to be a sacrifice?

[Bendal Home]

Liosan, on 20 October 2016 - 01:30 PM, said:

Okay, that was a very quick read. There was no counter on the reveal and that would be ballsy/insane to bet on that if scum, so I trust Kesso and Gait are lovers. This leaves Aranatha and Mockra as the most scummy people on my list, I'm okay with vote of any of those, leaning towards Aranatha myself.

Serc also appeared on my radar. As said previously, nothing particular, but the general posting style reeks of coasting dressed up as contributing. But that's weaksauce. I had Bendal on my PI list, but the amount of WIFOMING he's been delivering this day is way over the top. Symp or scum?

That said, I need to get back to work :| Will put my vote on Aranatha and will be checking the thread, but can't really post much. What's the vote count and timer?

vote Aranatha

Pinch of salt but Lio was bang on with Ara.

Mockra, on 20 October 2016 - 01:35 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 20 October 2016 - 01:31 PM, said:

Mockra, on 20 October 2016 - 01:27 PM, said:

Telas taking the obstinate view worries me, tbh. With 8 people around, it'd take everyone minus scum to lynch. WCS still 3 scum, so Telas refusing to budge from Aranatha could be a subtle symp hint maybe? Gah, i'm getting paranoid.

I'm actually kind of tempted to follow Telas' instincts on that - that misread by Aranatha was pretty odd.

I have a general policy of not trusting Telas' gut. It (the gut, not the policy) has led me astray waaay too many times.

Mockra, on 20 October 2016 - 01:42 PM, said:

MY gut is screaming "Liosan". But I admit I might be biased since responding to his "sanity-checking" is what started this whole issue.

yet he does vote Ara in the end.

Mockra, on 20 October 2016 - 01:46 PM, said:

Bendal Home, on 20 October 2016 - 01:44 PM, said:

remove vote

how many votes on him?

4 now.

I don't like it, but thinking on it, I doubt Serc is killer.

I didn't mention Serc to Mockra. I Wasn't even thinking Serc, I wanted Mockra lynched...

Bendal Home, on 20 October 2016 - 01:46 PM, said:

left it late in the day, too late I think.

Personally would've liked Mockra lynched.

[Serc]

Bendal Home, on 21 October 2016 - 09:14 AM, said:

Serc, on 20 October 2016 - 12:55 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 20 October 2016 - 12:46 PM, said:

Partway through reading and I think I have my list of suspects cut in half (including myself and Gait). I get (mostly) town vibes from Telas' posting, and I see Bendal as a symp at worst. I think the two killers are within: Aranatha, Liosan, Mockra, and Serc. So 50% chance of hitting killer by lynching one of them. Gonna try to narrow it down further.

Edit: deleted "don't" from 'I get mostly town vibes...'

this I can agree with. If we vote me out that gives you a 60% chance on the remaining.

I can get behind this thinking.

Edit: Check on my maths 66.6 % percent chance. either way good odds to play.

Suicidal Serc strikes again, what's the idea of him trying to be a sacrifice?

Clarity.

[Bendal Home]

I have to start working, i'll come back, I cannot decide out of Mockra and Serc who I like more for the killer. They both have their merits. I am going to think more on the game as a whole.

[Telas]

Kessobahn, on 21 October 2016 - 09:02 AM, said:

Yes, it's almost like Serc is not Mockra's symp or Bendal'a symp...or indeed, any kind of symp at all.

I've been circling this idea since going to bed last night. given that serc's tied into both mine and bendals suspicions, I'd like to hear Mockra's take on them this morning.
Bendal's verbal diarrhea is not helpful in any shape or form and it hinges on serc symping mockra, which doesn't fly in any direction for me. Sympage in the other direction is entirely possible I'll admit, but that flops again on the mockra voting Arantha. A symp wouldn't make that play.
We're into WIFOM territory again but to me it falls as thus.
Serc didn't vote Arantha - couldn't
Serc won't vote Bendal - can't
Serc possible symp

Serc and Bendal chasing mockra - clearly not mockra's symp candidate.

I think the symp is alive, so in the 3 we have a killer and a symp. Doesn't add up to a mockra killer whatever way I bend it.
If the symp is dead, this isn't D-Day, Sercs suspicions of Bendal without ever following with a vote makes no sense.

Plus Bendals spewing all over the thread. I'm keeping my vote, but will swing to a serc if that is the consensus.

/out for an hour or 2, errands to run

[Gait]

There was a lot of symp talk before Serc voted and thread was in general assuming symp being alive, if Mockra was the killer then the symp, if alive, would have to be either you Telas, which is not likely untrue, or the symp is their symp is voting them, which is also unlikely if were talking general but it created this situation where the scenarios of Mockra the killer is just unlikely so we probably would not vote that way

But what Kesso said, we shouldn't assume symp to be dead but neither to be alive

[Gait]

Serc, on 21 October 2016 - 09:23 AM, said:

Bendal Home, on 21 October 2016 - 09:14 AM, said:

Serc, on 20 October 2016 - 12:55 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 20 October 2016 - 12:46 PM, said:

Partway through reading and I think I have my list of suspects cut in half (including myself and Gait). I get (mostly) town vibes from Telas' posting, and I see Bendal as a symp at worst. I think the two killers are within: Aranatha, Liosan, Mockra, and Serc. So 50% chance of hitting killer by lynching one of them. Gonna try to narrow it down further.

Edit: deleted "don't" from 'I get mostly town vibes...'

this I can agree with. If we vote me out that gives you a 60% chance on the remaining.

I can get behind this thinking.

Edit: Check on my maths 66.6 % percent chance. either way good odds to play.

Suicidal Serc strikes again, what's the idea of him trying to be a sacrifice?

Clarity.

Did the D-day not bother you?