[QuickTidal]

So I'm going to note something about this series that DOES bug me...the coincidental meetings and placement of characters.

Gabaldon suffers from the same authorly affliction as Ken Follet does....in that all kinds of characters criss cross in convenient ways over long periods of time.

It get's a BIT overly coincidental by book 4 and I find myself rolling my eyes. This book also brings another annoyance to the forefront...

big ass spoilers for book 4...

Spoiler

...that of the "misunderstanding" trope. I already hate the misunderstanding plot trope when it's used in other media. Like it works in a half hour sitcom because it's resolved quickly enough that you don't get annoyed by it...but jeezus, the ENTIRE plot lines of Brianna and Roger once they reach the past and sail to America are RIDDLED with bloody misunderstandings..and coupled with "coincidental meetings: the Mackenzie ancestor...Roger saving his own great grandfather from dying....Brianna meeting the Irish thief from earlier in the story who Jamie didn't kill once, but TWICE...AND he end sup raping Brianna...AND she becomes preggers probably by him...I mean jeezus. It was bad enough when Lord John and little Willie randomly showed up because his passed-away British wife just HAPPENED to have land in Wilmington...but with the rest of the above noted stuff....it's all become WAY over the top. I mean misunderstanding with regards to Roger leads to 100's of pages of criss-crossed lines...including the beating and selling of the very man Brianna has them looking for...

I'm not ready to chuck the book across the room mind you...but the back half of it is not nearly as compelling as the first half...

and learning that....spoilers

Spoiler

The American Revolution, which is GREAT fodder for these characters since the Rising is long done, is STILL two books off? I mean WTF Gabaldon?! I truly don't get this factor...the Revolution is the perfect setting for MULTIPLE books with lots of room for intrigue...not to mention I haven't a clue why she chose Fraser's Ridge to be in North Carolina instead of putting her characters smack dab in the middle of say Boston, or New England instead...where the fires of rebellion were stoked most early...I'm just not at all sure I understand A: why she's not chosen to get her characters closer to to the action....and B: why she didn't push the timeline to begin telling us about things further into the future to get closer to the revolution. I mean, do we need pages of homesteading, illnesses, criss-crossed story lines of misunderstanding, barely touching on native lives...and stemming whole plot lines from further south (the plantations, the bad British soldier, the slaves) in favour of boredom in the mountains? I mean FFS we spent more than one chapter with Jamie laid up with a bad back in the wilderness....and then we do the same with Claire not 25 pages later...I think Gabrielle, you are right...there is some SERIOUS bloat in book 4.

Oh, and though Fergus and Marsali are now on Fraser's Ridge....she's literally done NADA with Fergus in 100's of pages. With this and the death of Murtagh off-page back in book 3....I don't know if Gabaldon QUITE understands just which of her characters we care about and want to read about other than Claire and Jamie.

Oh, and Stephen Bonnet isn't HALF the villain that Black Jack Randall was. I'm not sure AT ALL why he's been set up as the big bad...he's not threatening in the slightest.

EDIT: Lastly, it would SEEM as if William is possibly being set up as a Mordred in this story. The Illegitimate child of a bad union...mother dead...and possibly being set up as a future villain to attack his own father Jamie who he might end up resenting? That's TOTALLY what he feels like as a character. If that happens I will be more than a little annoyed with Gabaldon. If that occurs, I might have to give up the series.

Annoyed.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 24 October 2016 - 12:43 PM

[Andorion]

My principal worry is that Goodreads lists the first 4 books as having between 780-850 pages which is fine.

But book 5 is apparently 1443 pages?

Almost double the previous ones?

[Gabriele]

QuickTidal, on 24 October 2016 - 12:32 PM, said:

So I'm going to note something about this series that DOES bug me...the coincidental meetings and placement of characters.

Gabaldon suffers from the same authorly affliction as Ken Follet does....in that all kinds of characters criss cross in convenient ways over long periods of time.

It get's a BIT overly coincidental by book 4 and I find myself rolling my eyes. This book also brings another annoyance to the forefront...

big ass spoilers for book 4...

Spoiler

...that of the "misunderstanding" trope. I already hate the misunderstanding plot trope when it's used in other media. Like it works in a half hour sitcom because it's resolved quickly enough that you don't get annoyed by it...but jeezus, the ENTIRE plot lines of Brianna and Roger once they reach the past and sail to America are RIDDLED with bloody misunderstandings..and coupled with "coincidental meetings: the Mackenzie ancestor...Roger saving his own great grandfather from dying....Brianna meeting the Irish thief from earlier in the story who Jamie didn't kill once, but TWICE...AND he end sup raping Brianna...AND she becomes preggers probably by him...I mean jeezus. It was bad enough when Lord John and little Willie randomly showed up because his passed-away British wife just HAPPENED to have land in Wilmington...but with the rest of the above noted stuff....it's all become WAY over the top. I mean misunderstanding with regards to Roger leads to 100's of pages of criss-crossed lines...including the beating and selling of the very man Brianna has them looking for...

I'm not ready to chuck the book across the room mind you...but the back half of it is not nearly as compelling as the first half...

and learning that....spoilers

Spoiler

The American Revolution, which is GREAT fodder for these characters since the Rising is long done, is STILL two books off? I mean WTF Gabaldon?! I truly don't get this factor...the Revolution is the perfect setting for MULTIPLE books with lots of room for intrigue...not to mention I haven't a clue why she chose Fraser's Ridge to be in North Carolina instead of putting her characters smack dab in the middle of say Boston, or New England instead...where the fires of rebellion were stoked most early...I'm just not at all sure I understand A: why she's not chosen to get her characters closer to to the action....and B: why she didn't push the timeline to begin telling us about things further into the future to get closer to the revolution. I mean, do we need pages of homesteading, illnesses, criss-crossed story lines of misunderstanding, barely touching on native lives...and stemming whole plot lines from further south (the plantations, the bad British soldier, the slaves) in favour of boredom in the mountains? I mean FFS we spent more than one chapter with Jamie laid up with a bad back in the wilderness....and then we do the same with Claire not 25 pages later...I think Gabrielle, you are right...there is some SERIOUS bloat in book 4.

Oh, and though Fergus and Marsali are now on Fraser's Ridge....she's literally done NADA with Fergus in 100's of pages. With this and the death of Murtagh off-page back in book 3....I don't know if Gabaldon QUITE understands just which of her characters we care about and want to read about other than Claire and Jamie.

Oh, and Stephen Bonnet isn't HALF the villain that Black Jack Randall was. I'm not sure AT ALL why he's been set up as the big bad...he's not threatening in the slightest.

EDIT: Lastly, it would SEEM as if William is possibly being set up as a Mordred in this story. The Illegitimate child of a bad union...mother dead...and possibly being set up as a future villain to attack his own father Jamie who he might end up resenting? That's TOTALLY what he feels like as a character. If that happens I will be more than a little annoyed with Gabaldon. If that occurs, I might have to give up the series.

Annoyed.

Spoiler

Yes, the Brianna-Roger misunderstanding felt contrived.

The criss-crossing bothered me a bit less. It's a tendency I have to watch out for in my own writing.

I don't mind a few pages of 'scenery' (including day to day dealings) now and then; it adds flesh to a novel if well done. But there's a bit much of that in book 4, and I remember even more in book 5, which is why I gave up on it. And frankly, I don't need that much J/C sex, either. It's nice to know they still enjoy it at the ripe old age of 40something but we don't need to know every time they do the deed.

I don't know American history as well as Scottish history, but I too got a feeling that she missed out on some fun. I can see why Jamie would prefer a farm to living in Boston, but you are right, Gabaldon could have moved their protagonists closer to where the fun is.

[Gabriele]

Andorion, on 24 October 2016 - 01:04 PM, said:

My principal worry is that Goodreads lists the first 4 books as having between 780-850 pages which is fine.

But book 5 is apparently 1443 pages?

Almost double the previous ones?

Yeah, and it sounds it would have been better at half the size. Book 6 is another 1400 page monster, book 7 clocks in at 1200, book 8 has 1150 pages.

[QuickTidal]

Andorion, on 24 October 2016 - 01:04 PM, said:

My principal worry is that Goodreads lists the first 4 books as having between 780-850 pages which is fine.

But book 5 is apparently 1443 pages?

Almost double the previous ones?

I'm nearly done book 4 and I have one word for you "Filler"

Where the first half of the book was engrossing and mostly filler-free...the back half of it is stuffed with filler. Like this book could safely have been 500pages TOTAL for the amount of plot-pushing. It makes me fear for what the next one will involve filler-wise. Fro what I hear....outlook not so good.

Sigh.

The first three books are so great! I'm bothered by how fast this went downhill.

Gabriele, on 24 October 2016 - 01:07 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 24 October 2016 - 12:32 PM, said:

So I'm going to note something about this series that DOES bug me...the coincidental meetings and placement of characters.

Gabaldon suffers from the same authorly affliction as Ken Follet does....in that all kinds of characters criss cross in convenient ways over long periods of time.

It get's a BIT overly coincidental by book 4 and I find myself rolling my eyes. This book also brings another annoyance to the forefront...

big ass spoilers for book 4...

Spoiler

...that of the "misunderstanding" trope. I already hate the misunderstanding plot trope when it's used in other media. Like it works in a half hour sitcom because it's resolved quickly enough that you don't get annoyed by it...but jeezus, the ENTIRE plot lines of Brianna and Roger once they reach the past and sail to America are RIDDLED with bloody misunderstandings..and coupled with "coincidental meetings: the Mackenzie ancestor...Roger saving his own great grandfather from dying....Brianna meeting the Irish thief from earlier in the story who Jamie didn't kill once, but TWICE...AND he end sup raping Brianna...AND she becomes preggers probably by him...I mean jeezus. It was bad enough when Lord John and little Willie randomly showed up because his passed-away British wife just HAPPENED to have land in Wilmington...but with the rest of the above noted stuff....it's all become WAY over the top. I mean misunderstanding with regards to Roger leads to 100's of pages of criss-crossed lines...including the beating and selling of the very man Brianna has them looking for...

I'm not ready to chuck the book across the room mind you...but the back half of it is not nearly as compelling as the first half...

and learning that....spoilers

Spoiler

The American Revolution, which is GREAT fodder for these characters since the Rising is long done, is STILL two books off? I mean WTF Gabaldon?! I truly don't get this factor...the Revolution is the perfect setting for MULTIPLE books with lots of room for intrigue...not to mention I haven't a clue why she chose Fraser's Ridge to be in North Carolina instead of putting her characters smack dab in the middle of say Boston, or New England instead...where the fires of rebellion were stoked most early...I'm just not at all sure I understand A: why she's not chosen to get her characters closer to to the action....and B: why she didn't push the timeline to begin telling us about things further into the future to get closer to the revolution. I mean, do we need pages of homesteading, illnesses, criss-crossed story lines of misunderstanding, barely touching on native lives...and stemming whole plot lines from further south (the plantations, the bad British soldier, the slaves) in favour of boredom in the mountains? I mean FFS we spent more than one chapter with Jamie laid up with a bad back in the wilderness....and then we do the same with Claire not 25 pages later...I think Gabrielle, you are right...there is some SERIOUS bloat in book 4.

Oh, and though Fergus and Marsali are now on Fraser's Ridge....she's literally done NADA with Fergus in 100's of pages. With this and the death of Murtagh off-page back in book 3....I don't know if Gabaldon QUITE understands just which of her characters we care about and want to read about other than Claire and Jamie.

Oh, and Stephen Bonnet isn't HALF the villain that Black Jack Randall was. I'm not sure AT ALL why he's been set up as the big bad...he's not threatening in the slightest.

EDIT: Lastly, it would SEEM as if William is possibly being set up as a Mordred in this story. The Illegitimate child of a bad union...mother dead...and possibly being set up as a future villain to attack his own father Jamie who he might end up resenting? That's TOTALLY what he feels like as a character. If that happens I will be more than a little annoyed with Gabaldon. If that occurs, I might have to give up the series.

Annoyed.

Spoiler

Yes, the Brianna-Roger misunderstanding felt contrived.

The criss-crossing bothered me a bit less. It's a tendency I have to watch out for in my own writing.

I don't mind a few pages of 'scenery' (including day to day dealings) now and then; it adds flesh to a novel if well done. But there's a bit much of that in book 4, and I remember even more in book 5, which is why I gave up on it. And frankly, I don't need that much J/C sex, either. It's nice to know they still enjoy it at the ripe old age of 40something but we don't need to know every time they do the deed.

I don't know American history as well as Scottish history, but I too got a feeling that she missed out on some fun. I can see why Jamie would prefer a farm to living in Boston, but you are right, Gabaldon could have moved their protagonists closer to where the fun is.

Spoiler

Also, Brianna is a complete moron. Nearly everything she did after she stepped back in time has been a mistake made of stupidity. And that includes walking into the cabin of a KNOWN pirate and expecting to come out unscathed. Ugh. Roger is only slightly better. But the biggest gripe has to be the whole Roger Wakefield/Mackenzie thing. I mean should Jamie have bothered to ask his first name...or Brianna told them he was also a Mackenzie...we could have avoided the entire back half of the book.

Also, was it me or did the important portions of the story feeling glossed over? Like Jamie meeting Brianna felt so slight and inconsequential...and it should have been so much more monumental.

Where I had though the series would go was that the fast-forward would get them all much closer to the American Revolution (as opposed to a decade out from 1776 that Gabaldon chose) like 2-3 years tops. I mean there are TONNES of Revolutionary war characters and plots and adventures to be had in and around that conflict. It practically writes itself. But for some reason Gabaldon chose to take her war-knowledgable characters and make Little House on the Prairie Mountain instead...just blech. Like I can honestly see Jamie as an aging, but supremely knowledgeable general for the Patriots side in the conflict, the English dragoons get to once again be the villains like Randall and his soldiers were, Since the French help out in the war too, that makes Fergus more than a little important, Brianna being scientifically minded can end up in conversations with the likes of Ben Franklin...I man it's literally all there for the telling....but Gabaldon stumbled with not one but apparently two books.

It KIND of makes me want to skip to the the ECHO IN BONE one as that's where the Revolution properly gets underway.

[Andorion]

I don't want to raise an alarm, but as a follow up to Gabriele's pagecount post:


Book 5: HC: 979 MMPB: 1443
Book 6: HC:1157 MMPB: 1439
Book 7: HC: 820 PB: 1149
Book 8: HC: 842 MMPB: 1117

Thats a pretty high average pagecount.

Taking into account QT's update about filler, that means around 600 pages of filler minimum

Yeah its worrying.

[Gabriele]

QuickTidal, on 24 October 2016 - 01:58 PM, said:

Andorion, on 24 October 2016 - 01:04 PM, said:

My principal worry is that Goodreads lists the first 4 books as having between 780-850 pages which is fine.

But book 5 is apparently 1443 pages?

Almost double the previous ones?

I'm nearly done book 4 and I have one word for you "Filler"

Where the first half of the book was engrossing and mostly filler-free...the back half of it is stuffed with filler. Like this book could safely have been 500pages TOTAL for the amount of plot-pushing. It makes me fear for what the next one will involve filler-wise. Fro what I hear....outlook not so good.

Sigh.

The first three books are so great! I'm bothered by how fast this went downhill.

Gabriele, on 24 October 2016 - 01:07 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 24 October 2016 - 12:32 PM, said:

So I'm going to note something about this series that DOES bug me...the coincidental meetings and placement of characters.

Gabaldon suffers from the same authorly affliction as Ken Follet does....in that all kinds of characters criss cross in convenient ways over long periods of time.

It get's a BIT overly coincidental by book 4 and I find myself rolling my eyes. This book also brings another annoyance to the forefront...

big ass spoilers for book 4...

Spoiler

...that of the "misunderstanding" trope. I already hate the misunderstanding plot trope when it's used in other media. Like it works in a half hour sitcom because it's resolved quickly enough that you don't get annoyed by it...but jeezus, the ENTIRE plot lines of Brianna and Roger once they reach the past and sail to America are RIDDLED with bloody misunderstandings..and coupled with "coincidental meetings: the Mackenzie ancestor...Roger saving his own great grandfather from dying....Brianna meeting the Irish thief from earlier in the story who Jamie didn't kill once, but TWICE...AND he end sup raping Brianna...AND she becomes preggers probably by him...I mean jeezus. It was bad enough when Lord John and little Willie randomly showed up because his passed-away British wife just HAPPENED to have land in Wilmington...but with the rest of the above noted stuff....it's all become WAY over the top. I mean misunderstanding with regards to Roger leads to 100's of pages of criss-crossed lines...including the beating and selling of the very man Brianna has them looking for...

I'm not ready to chuck the book across the room mind you...but the back half of it is not nearly as compelling as the first half...

and learning that....spoilers

Spoiler

The American Revolution, which is GREAT fodder for these characters since the Rising is long done, is STILL two books off? I mean WTF Gabaldon?! I truly don't get this factor...the Revolution is the perfect setting for MULTIPLE books with lots of room for intrigue...not to mention I haven't a clue why she chose Fraser's Ridge to be in North Carolina instead of putting her characters smack dab in the middle of say Boston, or New England instead...where the fires of rebellion were stoked most early...I'm just not at all sure I understand A: why she's not chosen to get her characters closer to to the action....and B: why she didn't push the timeline to begin telling us about things further into the future to get closer to the revolution. I mean, do we need pages of homesteading, illnesses, criss-crossed story lines of misunderstanding, barely touching on native lives...and stemming whole plot lines from further south (the plantations, the bad British soldier, the slaves) in favour of boredom in the mountains? I mean FFS we spent more than one chapter with Jamie laid up with a bad back in the wilderness....and then we do the same with Claire not 25 pages later...I think Gabrielle, you are right...there is some SERIOUS bloat in book 4.

Oh, and though Fergus and Marsali are now on Fraser's Ridge....she's literally done NADA with Fergus in 100's of pages. With this and the death of Murtagh off-page back in book 3....I don't know if Gabaldon QUITE understands just which of her characters we care about and want to read about other than Claire and Jamie.

Oh, and Stephen Bonnet isn't HALF the villain that Black Jack Randall was. I'm not sure AT ALL why he's been set up as the big bad...he's not threatening in the slightest.

EDIT: Lastly, it would SEEM as if William is possibly being set up as a Mordred in this story. The Illegitimate child of a bad union...mother dead...and possibly being set up as a future villain to attack his own father Jamie who he might end up resenting? That's TOTALLY what he feels like as a character. If that happens I will be more than a little annoyed with Gabaldon. If that occurs, I might have to give up the series.

Annoyed.

Spoiler

Yes, the Brianna-Roger misunderstanding felt contrived.

The criss-crossing bothered me a bit less. It's a tendency I have to watch out for in my own writing.

I don't mind a few pages of 'scenery' (including day to day dealings) now and then; it adds flesh to a novel if well done. But there's a bit much of that in book 4, and I remember even more in book 5, which is why I gave up on it. And frankly, I don't need that much J/C sex, either. It's nice to know they still enjoy it at the ripe old age of 40something but we don't need to know every time they do the deed.

I don't know American history as well as Scottish history, but I too got a feeling that she missed out on some fun. I can see why Jamie would prefer a farm to living in Boston, but you are right, Gabaldon could have moved their protagonists closer to where the fun is.

Spoiler

Also, Brianna is a complete moron. Nearly everything she did after she stepped back in time has been a mistake made of stupidity. And that includes walking into the cabin of a KNOWN pirate and expecting to come out unscathed. Ugh. Roger is only slightly better. But the biggest gripe has to be the whole Roger Wakefield/Mackenzie thing. I mean should Jamie have bothered to ask his first name...or Brianna told them he was also a Mackenzie...we could have avoided the entire back half of the book.

Also, was it me or did the important portions of the story feeling glossed over? Like Jamie meeting Brianna felt so slight and inconsequential...and it should have been so much more monumental.

Where I had though the series would go was that the fast-forward would get them all much closer to the American Revolution (as opposed to a decade out from 1776 that Gabaldon chose) like 2-3 years tops. I mean there are TONNES of Revolutionary war characters and plots and adventures to be had in and around that conflict. It practically writes itself. But for some reason Gabaldon chose to take her war-knowledgable characters and make Little House on the Prairie Mountain instead...just blech. Like I can honestly see Jamie as an aging, but supremely knowledgeable general for the Patriots side in the conflict, the English dragoons get to once again be the villains like Randall and his soldiers were, Since the French help out in the war too, that makes Fergus more than a little important, Brianna being scientifically minded can end up in conversations with the likes of Ben Franklin...I man it's literally all there for the telling....but Gabaldon stumbled with not one but apparently two books.

It KIND of makes me want to skip to the the ECHO IN BONE one as that's where the Revolution properly gets underway.

Spoiler

Brianna is definitely worse than her mother, who only wanted to go back to the stone circle despite it being near the English. Which shows that researching history doesn't mean you'll actually survive in that time - going into the cabin is such a 20th century move, and heck, even then rape could have happened.

I agree, the meeting between Jamie and Brianna was too short and matter of fact. Oh hey, I'm your daughter. Cool, welcome. I'd have expected the emotions of a Verdi duet at least.

I don't know how well the names of the generals were known. It would be difficult to replace a known one with the fictive Jamie, but there should have been ways to get him a position in the army in some historical black spot. I write historical fiction and I know that can be done (though I am glad for the insufficient record keeping of Varus' army ). Interaction with real historical characters is almost always possbible; few of them kept a day to day diary where they'd mention every minor encounter.

Now I need to read up on the American Revolution. It sounds like fun (if you consider battles, intrigues and conflicting loyalties fun, which I do)

.

[QuickTidal]

Andorion, on 24 October 2016 - 02:09 PM, said:

I don't want to raise an alarm, but as a follow up to Gabriele's pagecount post:


Book 5: HC: 979 MMPB: 1443
Book 6: HC:1157 MMPB: 1439
Book 7: HC: 820 PB: 1149
Book 8: HC: 842 MMPB: 1117

Thats a pretty high average pagecount.

Taking into account QT's update about filler, that means around 600 pages of filler minimum

Yeah its worrying.

I'm going to take a longish break before busting into Book5 to be honest. Book 4 started out great, but took nosedive in the second half...like off a cliff.

Anyways, you still have book 3 ahead of you which is a finale-of-sorts to the initial story lines and is wonderful throughout...and if you choose to stop there, you won't be worse for the wear.

I feel like book 4 soured me enough to question moving on...I probability will still read book 5 and possibly 6...but it's not going to be for a while yet as I feel quite burned by this one.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 24 October 2016 - 03:04 PM

[Gabriele]

I had some "you know that place" reaction when I saw Castle Leoch in the series. No wonder, it's the real Doune Castle near Stirling which already served as Winterfell in the never aired pilot of Game of Thrones. I had been there in 2009. Outlander makes better use of the place.

So I'll drag out an old blogpost about Doune and rewrite it a bit. And I should finally get around to post about the history of the castle as well (I usually have a post or two about the history, and another one about the architecture). High time that. I got too many photos of historical sites, and since I do some research for the history posts, they keep lining up.

[QuickTidal]

I Got Crabs, on 24 October 2016 - 04:04 PM, said:

The reviews are so numerous and high on Amazon though.....Well that sucks to hear. & yah ididnt really look at my new bks the other day but they felt massive as fuck and I just looked at pg count. My hands are Gonna spaz the fuck out.

Yeah, it's disappointing, but I can't complain about booked 1-3, and even the first half of 4 is great.

I have hopes that somewhere down the line things improve.

[Gabriele]

I Got Crabs, on 24 October 2016 - 04:04 PM, said:

The reviews are so numerous and high on Amazon though.....Well that sucks to hear. & yah ididnt really look at my new bks the other day but they felt massive as fuck and I just looked at pg count. My hands are Gonna spaz the fuck out.

The reviews on Amazon.de are a more mixed bunch with quite a number of 1 star ones, and those usually mention bloat and too little action.

[QuickTidal]

The goodreads reviews are also somewhat mixed.

[Gabriele]

There we go: A Virtual Tour through Castle Leoch Doune Castle:

http://lostfort.blogspot.com/

[QuickTidal]

Finished DRUMS.

Ack, it didn't even END strongly.

Spoiler

The whole plot line with Roger and Brianna wondering if they are going to stay married is SO HORRIBLY BORING AND TEDIOUS! It's also irritating to see Jamie...who should be KISSING ROGERS ASS after having beaten him to a pulp and sold him into slavery because he was too stupid to ask his first name...be such a reprehensible dickhole to Roger after the fact when he's come to live on Fraser's Ridge. Gods, so irritating. And Claire acts like this know-all biznatch who has to inform Roger about the "ways of women" and that he doesn't understand of course because "he's a bloody man"....and I'm like okay...maybe Roger of a few years ago was more socially inept....but after all he's been through, I'll wager he knows more than Claire seems inclined to believe...and she just acts like jerk ti him.

Anyways, at least now the Fraser's Ridge posse is settled, River's Run is settled, and everyone is in place to move forward with the coming American Revolution...but fuck me that was a boring ass 600-odd pages to achieve it.

Looks like book 5 THE FIERY CROSS does go into events I want to see...so hopefully that helps.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 25 October 2016 - 12:29 PM

[Gabriele]

QuickTidal, on 25 October 2016 - 12:28 PM, said:

Finished DRUMS.

Ack, it didn't even END strongly.

Spoiler

The whole plot line with Roger and Brianna wondering if they are going to stay married is SO HORRIBLY BORING AND TEDIOUS! It's also irritating to see Jamie...who should be KISSING ROGERS ASS after having beaten him to a pulp and sold him into slavery because he was too stupid to ask his first name...be such a reprehensible dickhole to Roger after the fact when he's come to live on Fraser's Ridge. Gods, so irritating. And Claire acts like this know-all biznatch who has to inform Roger about the "ways of women" and that he doesn't understand of course because "he's a bloody man"....and I'm like okay...maybe Roger of a few years ago was more socially inept....but after all he's been through, I'll wager he knows more than Claire seems inclined to believe...and she just acts like jerk ti him.

Anyways, at least now the Fraser's Ridge posse is settled, River's Run is settled, and everyone is in place to move forward with the coming American Revolution...but fuck me that was a boring ass 600-odd pages to achieve it.

Looks like book 5 THE FIERY CROSS does go into events I want to see...so hopefully that helps.

Spoiler

Jamie as daddy who's daughter is OMG having sex is worse than Jamie as husband whose wife got him out of prison by using her charms. And he's acting without thinking again.

It may be a realistic portrayal of a man from that time, but he's not exactly my dream prince to swoon over.

[QuickTidal]

Gabriele, on 25 October 2016 - 03:38 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 25 October 2016 - 12:28 PM, said:

Finished DRUMS.

Ack, it didn't even END strongly.

Spoiler

The whole plot line with Roger and Brianna wondering if they are going to stay married is SO HORRIBLY BORING AND TEDIOUS! It's also irritating to see Jamie...who should be KISSING ROGERS ASS after having beaten him to a pulp and sold him into slavery because he was too stupid to ask his first name...be such a reprehensible dickhole to Roger after the fact when he's come to live on Fraser's Ridge. Gods, so irritating. And Claire acts like this know-all biznatch who has to inform Roger about the "ways of women" and that he doesn't understand of course because "he's a bloody man"....and I'm like okay...maybe Roger of a few years ago was more socially inept....but after all he's been through, I'll wager he knows more than Claire seems inclined to believe...and she just acts like jerk ti him.

Anyways, at least now the Fraser's Ridge posse is settled, River's Run is settled, and everyone is in place to move forward with the coming American Revolution...but fuck me that was a boring ass 600-odd pages to achieve it.

Looks like book 5 THE FIERY CROSS does go into events I want to see...so hopefully that helps.

Spoiler

Jamie as daddy who's daughter is OMG having sex is worse than Jamie as husband whose wife got him out of prison by using her charms. And he's acting without thinking again.

It may be a realistic portrayal of a man from that time, but he's not exactly my dream prince to swoon over.

Well said, you've hit the nail on the head there. LOL

[QuickTidal]

I Got Crabs, on 25 October 2016 - 09:59 PM, said:

WHAT??!! Holy shit that's pretty nuts! Bk 3 pgs 930ish.

Spoiler

Gellis is alive and in fucking Jamaica. What??!! Also I think the serial killer from Edinburgh is among the crew of Artimis but I don't think it's Willoughby just yet. We will see. Holy shit though Gellis! If you don't see a body they ain't dead huh..

Spoiler

Yah, the Geillis reveal was nutters. When they reintroduced her in Book 3 in the future (1960's) and Claire yelled as she crossed through the stones...I wondered if that tipped her off to the fact that Claire would figure into something important in her life in the past....giving Geillis the wherewithal to prevent her own burning as a witch. It was chilling to find out that she thought that she had to kill a person to cross the stones...and she offed her own husband...man, that's creepy.

But yeah, her showing up as a plantation muckety-muck in Jamaica was insane!

[QuickTidal]

I Got Crabs, on 27 October 2016 - 05:22 AM, said:

Jeezussssss

Total time for me to read bk 3 was over 3 fucking months!! Sure I also read most of Safehold 3, all DL 1, half of DL2 & 2/3 of Safehold 4 during that time. Ha

Oh & that cover blurb for 4 has me fucking stoked!

Indeed, having read that book 4 blurb, and knowing the year it takes place in....can you tell what it's headed towards?

[QuickTidal]

I Got Crabs, on 27 October 2016 - 03:21 PM, said:

I didn't see a yr. just read cover. I just suspected we going to move during bk3 to

Spoiler

the beginnings of Rev war

or not?

Spoiler

That IS the conflict they are headed towards....but it doesn't happen in book 4 like I thought it did. It does get there though apparently.

[Andorion]

Outlander 3: Voyager - Chapters 1-21. In the middle of Chapter 22

Would have been more, but some things came up

So a few things that struck me:

Spoiler

A significant percentage of the English authority figures Jamie has interacted with are gay. Its a strange pattern

Jamie going to the treasure hiding place because he thought that he would get some sign of Claire was terribly sad for me. Its heartbreaking really. He sent her away, it was the correct decision, he was ready to die and now he has to live.

I am not entirely sure how I feel about the Jamie-Geneva segment. She was being a horribly entitled little shit by blackmailing him into sex, in fact I am pretty sure that this qualifies as rape. On the other hand Jamie's attitude did change a bit towards the end I think.... but I am not sure.

The section with his son was so poignant. I think that for the first time after Claire left, he truly has some reason to live. He will probably never be able to be a father to the boy but I think that the boy basically existing is a huge plus point for him.

So Jamie ends up going to America? Hmmmm...

As for Claire, I was so happy when they found her signature on that document. Concrete proof at last!

Also the snapshots into her life with Frank were very interesting. I feel for them both. His death was untimely and I think that in the long run Brianna lost the most by it.

And so Claire will go back. Lets hope she doesn't bump into some bunch of hooligans, but knowing her, she will