[Andorion]

So I took Abyss' advice and made this. Maybe a good place to concentrate discussion?

I am in the last chapter. Thoughts later.

[Dolmen 2.0]

What is this Outlander of which you speak?

Is it another Dresden Files? because Abyss tends to deal in bookcrack.

[Gabriele]

Outlander is a series of epic doorstoppers by Diana Gabaldon which have been made into a TV series. It's the story of a woman who in 1946 gets catapulted into pre-Culloden Scotland, falls in love with a Scot and gets thrown right into the middle of the historical fun. The time travel aspect plays a role again in the second book (I don't think that is much of a spoiler). I read the first four books pretty much when they came out and I'm now rereading them because the books are all over the discussion sites due to the TV series.

This post has been edited by Gabriele: 09 October 2016 - 10:38 AM

[Andorion]

So, Outlander.

I finished it.

Yeesh, a lot happened, a lot more that I expected.

Spoiler

First, Dougal is scumbag.

Secondly, Claire took a lot of risks. Huge, huge risks

Third. cow rescue is in fact the best rescue.

Fourth, poor, poor Jamie. The kind of shit he went through.....

Fifth, Is Randall dead? Did Claire just eliminate the family of her husband? Or did he have a kid before?

Sixth, How did Claire get Jamie to snap out of it? Not entirely clear on this one.

Seventh, I really, really liked Claire's stint in the monastery. A few important points were brought up, and dealt with here.

Finally, Claire really will have to tackle the issue of the consequences of her actions now. I wonder if she actually changes history.

PS Murtagh is awesome

[QuickTidal]

Andorion, on 11 October 2016 - 03:33 PM, said:

So, Outlander.

I finished it.

Yeesh, a lot happened, a lot more that I expected.

Spoiler

First, Dougal is scumbag.

He is. He can also be heroic when he chooses to be...but yes he is every Mackenzie bad trait infused into one individual. Collum being an invalid has only allowed Dougal to be even MORE of a shitbag.

Secondly, Claire took a lot of risks. Huge, huge risks

She always does.

Third. cow rescue is in fact the best rescue.

Love that scene!

Fourth, poor, poor Jamie. The kind of shit he went through.....

Yuuuup. And he doesn't just get over it either.

Fifth, Is Randall dead? Did Claire just eliminate the family of her husband? Or did he have a kid before?

Sixth, How did Claire get Jamie to snap out of it? Not entirely clear on this one.

She hadn't yet, not really. What happened to him takes its toll...and it requires more than a little time and help to heal the wounds.

Seventh, I really, really liked Claire's stint in the monastery. A few important points were brought up, and dealt with here.

Finally, Claire really will have to tackle the issue of the consequences of her actions now. I wonder if she actually changes history.

PS Murtagh is awesome

He is indeed!

Answered the ones that I feel comfy answering without spoiling you in red.

[Gabriele]

Andorion, on 11 October 2016 - 03:33 PM, said:

So, Outlander.

I finished it.

Yeesh, a lot happened, a lot more that I expected.

Spoiler

First, Dougal is scumbag.

Secondly, Claire took a lot of risks. Huge, huge risks

Third. cow rescue is in fact the best rescue.

Fourth, poor, poor Jamie. The kind of shit he went through.....

Fifth, Is Randall dead? Did Claire just eliminate the family of her husband? Or did he have a kid before?

Sixth, How did Claire get Jamie to snap out of it? Not entirely clear on this one.

Seventh, I really, really liked Claire's stint in the monastery. A few important points were brought up, and dealt with here.

Finally, Claire really will have to tackle the issue of the consequences of her actions now. I wonder if she actually changes history.

PS Murtagh is awesome

Big evil spoiler for book 2. Clicking it will condemn your soul to the abyss.

Spoiler

Randal isn't dead. In the whole highland cattle brouhaha - and yes, that is the best rescue - things got a bit confusing and blurred, and the body dragged out from under the hooves wasn't his.

[Andorion]

QuickTidal, on 11 October 2016 - 04:08 PM, said:

Andorion, on 11 October 2016 - 03:33 PM, said:

So, Outlander.

I finished it.

Yeesh, a lot happened, a lot more that I expected.

Spoiler

First, Dougal is scumbag.

He is. He can also be heroic when he chooses to be...but yes he is every Mackenzie bad trait infused into one individual. Collum being an invalid has only allowed Dougal to be even MORE of a shitbag.

Secondly, Claire took a lot of risks. Huge, huge risks

She always does.

Third. cow rescue is in fact the best rescue.

Love that scene!

Fourth, poor, poor Jamie. The kind of shit he went through.....

Yuuuup. And he doesn't just get over it either.

Fifth, Is Randall dead? Did Claire just eliminate the family of her husband? Or did he have a kid before?

Sixth, How did Claire get Jamie to snap out of it? Not entirely clear on this one.

She hadn't yet, not really. What happened to him takes its toll...and it requires more than a little time and help to heal the wounds.

Seventh, I really, really liked Claire's stint in the monastery. A few important points were brought up, and dealt with here.

Finally, Claire really will have to tackle the issue of the consequences of her actions now. I wonder if she actually changes history.

PS Murtagh is awesome

He is indeed!

Answered the ones that I feel comfy answering without spoiling you in red.

Spoiler

Yeah I really liked that the rape thing was shown to be permanently damaging to Jamie. I am still not sure what Claire did to get him out of his funk, he definitely gets better.

Also an unexpectedly poignant scene is when Jamie is crying over his hand and Claire is sad because she thinks its because she didn't fix it properly, while he is so happy that he still has a hand

[Andorion]

2 chapters into Outlander 2 and WTF people???

Spoiler

So its 1968, Claire is just nonchalantly wandering around, she has a daughter, who seems to have no clue about book1, she has lived with Frank for some time, who is now dead.....like WTF?? Did I miss a book in the middle?

Also the little orphan from book 1 is now grown up and very awkward....

Everything just seems so random

Claire wants to know about the survivors of Culloden... So Jamie fought there? Despite her telling him not to?

[QuickTidal]

Andorion, on 17 October 2016 - 05:20 PM, said:

2 chapters into Outlander 2 and WTF people???

Spoiler

So its 1968, Claire is just nonchalantly wandering around, she has a daughter, who seems to have no clue about book1, she has lived with Frank for some time, who is now dead.....like WTF?? Did I miss a book in the middle?

Also the little orphan from book 1 is now grown up and very awkward....

Everything just seems so random

Claire wants to know about the survivors of Culloden... So Jamie fought there? Despite her telling him not to?

HA! Welcome to the first big story-mindfuck of the series!

Spoiler

I recall the first time I read this too and I was reacted the same. It will be explained, Gabaldon just decided to bookend the volume with the revelations in that section. Not because they are unimportant, but because I think she wanted to hit us with a BIG twist out of the gate and then organically get there. When I first read it I wondered if it was a good idea for her to have done...but in the end it works better than the other option. Plus she IS skipping over some years on purpose. You'll see why that was a necessity later, but yeah, SUUUUUUPER jarring.

Re: Culloden, all will be come clear about that, but not till the second half of the book (not that the journey getting there is uninteresting mind you).

I forget how many chapters are in 1968 at the beginning. And she keeps coming back to it throughout the book, but I think you've not long to go now before you're back with Jamie and Claire on the way to Paris again where the last book left off.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 17 October 2016 - 05:40 PM

[Andorion]

QuickTidal, on 17 October 2016 - 05:38 PM, said:

Andorion, on 17 October 2016 - 05:20 PM, said:

2 chapters into Outlander 2 and WTF people???

Spoiler

So its 1968, Claire is just nonchalantly wandering around, she has a daughter, who seems to have no clue about book1, she has lived with Frank for some time, who is now dead.....like WTF?? Did I miss a book in the middle?

Also the little orphan from book 1 is now grown up and very awkward....

Everything just seems so random

Claire wants to know about the survivors of Culloden... So Jamie fought there? Despite her telling him not to?

HA! Welcome to the first big story-mindfuck of the series!

Spoiler

I recall the first time I read this too and I was reacted the same. It will be explained, Gabaldon just decided to bookend the volume with the revelations in that section. Not because they are unimportant, but because I think she wanted to hit us with a BIG twist out of the gate and then organically get there. When I first read it I wondered if it was a good idea for her to have done...but in the end it works better than the other option. Plus she IS skipping over some years on purpose. You'll see why that was a necessity later, but yeah, SUUUUUUPER jarring.

Re: Culloden, all will be come clear about that, but not till the second half of the book (not that the journey getting there is uninteresting mind you).

I forget how many chapters are in 1968 at the beginning. And she keeps coming back to it throughout the book, but I think you've not long to go now before you're back with Jamie and Claire on the way to Paris again where the last book left off.

Hmm ok, so the book explains why the book begins the way the book begins, right?

Spoiler

Sigh, now I will be wondering about the time travel thing again. Cue time travel headache.

Also, I am finding Roger annoying. This is worrying as he may become a PoV. (I fervently hope not)

[QuickTidal]

Andorion, on 17 October 2016 - 05:44 PM, said:

Hmm ok, so the book explains why the book begins the way the book begins, right?

Spoiler

Sigh, now I will be wondering about the time travel thing again. Cue time travel headache.

Also, I am finding Roger annoying. This is worrying as he may become a PoV. (I fervently hope not)

It does explain why VIA the story you're missing right now. You'll see, not to worry.

Spoiler

Roger is a bit oddly bookish and COMPLETELY awkward in Book 2 for the sections he's in....I think until later on. He improves as Gabaldon figures out how to write him. The less said about him at this point the better as I would not want to spoil anything for you. Sufficed to say that sometimes it takes Gabaldon to settle into writing a character and giving them a personality. Think of Claire in book 1 for a huge chunk at the beginning where she feels a tad cardboard. She settles in later on. Same thing here.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 17 October 2016 - 05:59 PM

[QuickTidal]

I Got Crabs, on 18 October 2016 - 12:33 AM, said:

Is the part I said what you had trouble with in bk3 QT?

Actually no, I wasn't too fussed by that bit...it's the trip they take that got a bit tedious for me. The journey itself gets boring...but picks up when they get where the are going.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 18 October 2016 - 01:02 AM

[Andorion]

Further comments on Chapter 2, Outlander 2

Spoiler

1. So a couple of months after the end of Book 1 something happened that determined that Jamie would fight at Culloden and Claire would have to flee through time? Also she seems extremely sure that he is dead, which is odd.

2. This Roger guy is a walking facepalm. He has met Brianna 2-3 times and has decided he is going to marry her? What is he? 14?

3. I wonder how Claire's marriage to Frank went after her return. Amnesia as an excuse is all well and good, but I bet that the baby was pretty awkward. Also what was Frank upto in the meantime? Did he have someone else?

[QuickTidal]

Andorion, on 18 October 2016 - 08:27 AM, said:

Further comments on Chapter 2, Outlander 2

Spoiler

1. So a couple of months after the end of Book 1 something happened that determined that Jamie would fight at Culloden and Claire would have to flee through time? Also she seems extremely sure that he is dead, which is odd.

2. This Roger guy is a walking facepalm. He has met Brianna 2-3 times and has decided he is going to marry her? What is he? 14?

3. I wonder how Claire's marriage to Frank went after her return. Amnesia as an excuse is all well and good, but I bet that the baby was pretty awkward. Also what was Frank upto in the meantime? Did he have someone else?

Spoiler

1. It was always clear after the Mackenzie's were found to be Stuart supporters in Book 1 that Jamie would probably fight at Culloden, as there would be no real way for him to avoid the Rising...even though Claire wanted him to. She's convinced he is dead because she KNEW he'd fight at Culloden and she knew that most of the Higlanders were either slaughtered there, or captured...and the captured were recorded...so she is convinced he died since she can't find mention of him in the annals of British history.

2. Roger is an odd duck. He's basically this bookworm as he grows up and has little-to-no contact with a lot of people raised by his uncle in a dusty, and lonely mansion in the Scottish highlands. So his initial machinations and feelings are what you'd expect of say...the home-schooled. I won't be giving too much away if I note that he DOES change and become far more interesting. He's still bookish and nerdy...but he also grows up a lot in the intervening years.

3. This will be revealed in text. You'll get some of it in Book 2 through the 1968 chapters...but most of it comes in Book 3. You'll see.

As for me, I'm back into DRUMS OF AUTUMN now, and enjoying.

[Gabriele]

Andorion, on 17 October 2016 - 05:20 PM, said:

2 chapters into Outlander 2 and WTF people???

Spoiler

Claire wants to know about the survivors of Culloden... So Jamie fought there? Despite her telling him not to?

Spoiler

You don't expect a stubborn Fraser to actually listen to that.
He wanted to die after he sent Claire back to her own time. But I think after he survived Culloden, the will to live did come back eventually. There's more in book 3, if I remember correctly (need to reread faster).

[Gabriele]

Andorion, on 18 October 2016 - 08:27 AM, said:

Further comments on Chapter 2, Outlander 2

Spoiler

2. This Roger guy is a walking facepalm. He has met Brianna 2-3 times and has decided he is going to marry her? What is he? 14?

3. I wonder how Claire's marriage to Frank went after her return. Amnesia as an excuse is all well and good, but I bet that the baby was pretty awkward. Also what was Frank upto in the meantime? Did he have someone else?

Spoiler

I've met types like Roger in real life. *sigh* At least he improves, which can't be said about that one guy who proposed after the first meeting and kept going .... we were in the same courses at University and it took me several months to convince him that I a) was not a goddess, and b ) would not marry him. He seems to have gotten the second point eventually, but never the first, I suspect.

Frank had a collection of mistresses even after she came back. It was not a dream marriage, but they sorta got on with each other because of Brianna.

This post has been edited by Gabriele: 18 October 2016 - 03:38 PM

[Andorion]

Gabriele, on 18 October 2016 - 03:38 PM, said:

Andorion, on 18 October 2016 - 08:27 AM, said:

Further comments on Chapter 2, Outlander 2

Spoiler

2. This Roger guy is a walking facepalm. He has met Brianna 2-3 times and has decided he is going to marry her? What is he? 14?

3. I wonder how Claire's marriage to Frank went after her return. Amnesia as an excuse is all well and good, but I bet that the baby was pretty awkward. Also what was Frank upto in the meantime? Did he have someone else?

Spoiler

I've met types like Roger in real life. *sigh* At least he improves, which can't be said about that one guy who proposed after the first meeting and kept going .... we were in the same courses at University and it took me several months to convince him that I a) was not a goddess, and b ) would not marry him. He seems to have gotten the second point eventually, but never the first, I suspect.

Frank had a collection of mistresses even after she came back. It was not a dream marriage, but they sorta got on with each other because of Brianna.

Taking QT's point about general social ineptness combined with this... hero-worship? (Is that the applicable term?) it just makes Roger look sad.

LoL you must have had a few interesting months. Bet it was extremely annoying)

Regarding Frank, yeah I suspected something of the sort.

[Andorion]

Outlander 2, chapters 3&4

Yeah yeah I am moving slowly. I will pick up the pace later..

Spoiler

So I am feeling a teensy bit sympathetic about Roger due to all the historical investigation stuff, me being in the same discipline and all, but so far his research is not very systematic.

Brianna seems to like him, though I am not sure if its in a non-platonic way.

Claire made this random off hand comment about plastic tech not being that advanced yet, which has me wondering whether she has jumped forward in time once. Or maybe its just me being paranoid. I hate time travel. It makes me insecure.

I think Claire was just woken by Jamie's ghost. This is probably a throwback to that Highlander apparition in the early chapters of Outlander 1.

[Gabriele]

Andorion, on 18 October 2016 - 04:22 PM, said:

Outlander 2, chapters 3&4

Yeah yeah I am moving slowly. I will pick up the pace later..

Spoiler

I hate time travel. It makes me insecure.

I would like to go back in time and have a nice chat with some historical characters. But I wouldn't want to pull a Claire, esp. considering that my times of choice are the Roman Imperium and the 10th century. I do a lot of research for my blog and my novels, but that's putting dedication a bit far.

[Andorion]

Gabriele, on 18 October 2016 - 04:33 PM, said:

Andorion, on 18 October 2016 - 04:22 PM, said:

Outlander 2, chapters 3&4

Yeah yeah I am moving slowly. I will pick up the pace later..

Spoiler

I hate time travel. It makes me insecure.

I would like to go back in time and have a nice chat with some historical characters. But I wouldn't want to pull a Claire, esp. considering that my times of choice are the Roman Imperium and the 10th century. I do a lot of research for my blog and my novels, but that's putting dedication a bit far.

Yeah, an exploration/academic time travel would be cool. Imagine talking with Augustus or Marcus Aurelius...

For me its the time travel event conintuity and causation paradoxes that are the chief sources of bother.