[Gorefest]

Right, as much as I was cheering on Leicester to win the championship last year, so badly I want them to relegate now. Absolutely disgusted. This is what happens when you get a bunch of uninterested foreign owners taking over a club. Wankers.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 23 February 2017 - 10:10 PM

[Macros]

Absolute disgrace.

[Tsundoku]

Macros, on 24 February 2017 - 10:45 PM, said:

Absolute disgrace.

Were you saying pretty much the same thing earlier today?

I mean What. The. Actual. Fuck? Where the hell was that a few days/weeks/months ago?

[Tiste Simeon]

Macros, on 24 February 2017 - 10:45 PM, said:

Absolute disgrace.

Are you referring to Leicester sacking Ranieri or Leicester sacking Liverpool last night??

[Macros]

Leicester players should be ashamed of themselves.
They covered more ground in the first half than any game this season. Thats is a real fact, not a rafa fact.
Every player was busting a gut, you could see vardy hunting everything from the first whistle.
Liverpool were abysmal, no arguments, but Claudio must have been throwing his TV out the fucking window watching that.

[Tiste Simeon]

Agreed. It's like "hey it's not that we're not playing for our manager or anything... He's gone you say? Right lads, let's smash it!"

[Tsundoku]

How come Liverpool are great against the other "Big 6" teams but suck against minnows? Can't lift?

[Macros]

It's incredibly frustrating. Consistency has been our problem for years

[Tattersail_]

It pisses me off, we need to win ugly against shit teams like Chelsea have been doing.

[Gorefest]

Macros, on 06 March 2017 - 10:14 AM, said:

It's incredibly frustrating. Consistency has been our problem for years

There's an additional issue as well, which is Klopp's chosen style of play. The man is all about Gegenpressung. High pressure on the pitch, compact play, and as many people into the box of the opponent as soon as you gain possession. Which is great against big opponents because they play high up the pitch themselves as well which means you have lots of space in the counterattack. However, as soon as the smaller teams sit back and force you to make play, these tactics flounder and you end up forever trying to poke holes in a tight defense, whereas you leave yourself open to counter attacks.

[Tattersail_]

Gorefest, on 06 March 2017 - 12:08 PM, said:

Macros, on 06 March 2017 - 10:14 AM, said:

It's incredibly frustrating. Consistency has been our problem for years

There's an additional issue as well, which is Klopp's chosen style of play. The man is all about Gegenpressung. High pressure on the pitch, compact play, and as many people into the box of the opponent as soon as you gain possession. Which is great against big opponents because they play high up the pitch themselves as well which means you have lots of space in the counterattack. However, as soon as the smaller teams sit back and force you to make play, these tactics flounder and you end up forever trying to poke holes in a tight defense, whereas you leave yourself open to counter attacks.

Surely with how big the club is, how much money is involved that those sort of things would come up in a conversation and they would plan accordingly.

[Macros]

I think he's learning though that small teams can sit back and pack the defence, and our problems at the back are the. Exposed by a quick counter.
Hopefully buy accordingly this summer and start working out a viable plan B

[Gorefest]

Tattersail_, on 06 March 2017 - 12:41 PM, said:

Surely with how big the club is, how much money is involved that those sort of things would come up in a conversation and they would plan accordingly.

It doesn't really matter how much money is involved. Sure you can buy better players, but the philosophy itself doesn't change. This is how Klopp likes to play. He did it with Maintz and with Dortmund and it is why Liverpool brought him in in the first place. When successful, it is a very attractive style of play. It is a great theoretical approach to the game and if executed well it looks fantastic. But it does demand full concentration and engagement from the team and great fitness/stamina. And inevitably it leaves you vulnerable to counterattacks. Sure, you can throw millions at superb defenders and midfield sweepers, but when they are drawn out of their comfort zones, it only takes a relatively modest striker with a bit of pace to break through. So if a team is happy to sit back and soak up the pressure, like a lot of lower-table PL teams are happy doing, you find yourself conceding and hemorrhaging points. Also, I imagine Klopp has a liking for attackers with pace and creativity, but when you hit a wall of defenders you also need a crowbar or a tank. It requires a differnet style of play and Klopp doesn't like to switch styles.

[polishgenius]

Gorefest, on 06 March 2017 - 01:30 PM, said:

Also, I imagine Klopp has a liking for attackers with pace and creativity, but when you hit a wall of defenders you also need a crowbar or a tank. It requires a differnet style of play and Klopp doesn't like to switch styles.[/size]

Yeah. Thing is that those players who can play such a system and be the crowbar do exist, but they're rare. Lewandowski was one, but how often are you going to find another Lewandowski? Especially in this day and age.

[Gorefest]

Yeah, Lewandowski is Klopp's wet dream. He came into the Dortmund squad as a typical '9', a deep striker, but Klopp moulded him into more of a creative shadow striker (an Ajax-style number 10). So Lewandowski has elements of both playing styles. But he's Bayern for life now.

[Tattersail_]

Gorefest, on 06 March 2017 - 01:30 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 06 March 2017 - 12:41 PM, said:

Surely with how big the club is, how much money is involved that those sort of things would come up in a conversation and they would plan accordingly.

It doesn't really matter how much money is involved. Sure you can buy better players, but the philosophy itself doesn't change. This is how Klopp likes to play. He did it with Maintz and with Dortmund and it is why Liverpool brought him in in the first place. When successful, it is a very attractive style of play. It is a great theoretical approach to the game and if executed well it looks fantastic. But it does demand full concentration and engagement from the team and great fitness/stamina. And inevitably it leaves you vulnerable to counterattacks. Sure, you can throw millions at superb defenders and midfield sweepers, but when they are drawn out of their comfort zones, it only takes a relatively modest striker with a bit of pace to break through. So if a team is happy to sit back and soak up the pressure, like a lot of lower-table PL teams are happy doing, you find yourself conceding and hemorrhaging points. Also, I imagine Klopp has a liking for attackers with pace and creativity, but when you hit a wall of defenders you also need a crowbar or a tank. It requires a differnet style of play and Klopp doesn't like to switch styles.

I didn't mean money to buy players, I meant from a business point of view. At the end of the day Liverpool football club is a business, and it is more profitable for the owners to be in the champions league and competing at the highest level. So if Joe Blogg can see why we fail against smaller clubs then surely there are people at Liverpool who see the same thing. Klopp's plan needs to be more versatile otherwise people will just have a game plan because they know how you play and can counter.

[Gorefest]

Well, there is a big difference between bloggers reviewing results and a coach working with a team on a day-to-day basis. Liverpool knew (hopefully) very well who they brought into the club when they chose for Klopp so you can either fire him for disappointing results or give him more time to work with the players. Klopp has a very clear philosophy and he is not going to change that, it's not in his character. Klopp will undoubtedly be working hard to fix the issues, but he is not going to fundamentally deviate from his philosophy and you cannot just get a few new players in at any point on a whim. You've only got two transfer windows in a season, and during the winter break there wasn't really that much to worry about yet. Liverpool just had a torrid run since January. If the players are not picking up on his instructions, there isn't much a few million pounds or a board of directors can do, other than fire Klopp.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 06 March 2017 - 04:07 PM

[Tiste Simeon]

All I know is that it is hilarious for every year to be "Liverpool's year" only for failure and sadness to hit again.

[Macros]

almost as funny as the last 5 years have been watching united fans wonder why they aren't winning anything after paying wayne rooney 300k a week

[Tiste Simeon]

Yes it is ridiculous. As is Pogba and his fee.

Obviously if he scores 100+ goals for us next season I shall ignore that I ever said that.