[Vengeance]

D, on 29 August 2016 - 07:30 PM, said:

Vengeance, on 29 August 2016 - 02:31 AM, said:

Malaclypse, on 29 August 2016 - 01:46 AM, said:

Abyss, on 28 August 2016 - 04:20 PM, said:

Vengeance, on 28 August 2016 - 01:15 AM, said:

D, on 27 August 2016 - 11:27 PM, said:

Urquart, on 26 August 2016 - 02:04 AM, said:

but I still think you're a bunch of insufferable cunthammers generally.

So... same as before? We've always been that

I don't get it Mal, if Americans ruined Malazan fandom why would you choose to setup a bed-and-breakfast in America, then?!

In mals voice

I didn't. I went to the last vestige of the empire to set it up. Someplace where civilized people would be found. Some place where ideas abound and people are actually able to put two thoughts together....


Canada....

Oh hey that reminds me.... Mal, when you have five minutes some friends of mine from CBSA and CIC would like a word with you. Bring comfortable clothes, an overnight bag, your passport, and lube.

Oh really? You mean they would like a word with Hetan surely? I was born here. Her immigration status has been a terrible burden for both of us since we discovered how hostile the immigration process is. So we've been living in desperate uncertainty with regard to her status here, unable to get healthcare or a proper driver's license, having been forced to surrender her UK driving license for the dubious privilege of getting a two- month, then a three-month, then a two-month temporary driving license and then at some point having to apply for special permission to get another temporary driving license - not knowing how long the immigration process was going to take - 113 page long application, designed to be impossible to complete 100% correctly so they can judge you purely on your bank account and find a technicality to reject you on without seeming exclusionary - typical Conservative bullshit. You will notice that the Liberals retook power shortly after my return, btw. In any case, she has her permanent residency so take your empty threat and shove it up your well-used ass (not that there's anything wrong with that

Obviously you should have reached out to abyss ages ago. Think about how much effort could have been saved.

The whole thing could have been completed in 3 months using the special 25 page form.

See what hostility got you..the 113 page form.

They should have just moved to Canada, instead of AMURRICAAAAA. Then they wouldn't have needed a driver's license because they could just ride their complimentary polar bear everywhere (no license required and the application is only 2 maple-syrup-soaked pages long in English and 13 poutine pages in French).

All that paperwork and you can't even ride a bald eagle...



Speaking of which, I saw a bald eagle last week! First time ever for me, they don't normally emigrate to these whereabouts. Seems he is roosting in an old abandoned fire tower. I saw him perched on some trees and got a great view of him swooping over a lake. It was pretty cool.

Sniff... Poor guy got lost.... Well at least you know what you will see all the time once you become American states.

[Nicodimas]

Vengeance, on 25 August 2016 - 04:23 PM, said:

Nicodimas, on 25 August 2016 - 05:53 AM, said:

Defeat is how people that like the government think...ya know?

Says the man who drives on roads that the government built. Responding on a computer that is powered by electricity (Tax subsidies).

Roads really? Totally the most dissapointing argument. The govt basically has a monopoly on this with disasterous results. It could have been different and allowed society to pass this to the corporations.

Now calm down and carefully consider the impact of private roads. Government roads are responsible for 50k traffic deaths, never-ending resurfacing costs, traffic jams and I could go on. Now if you went in with a open mind about the changes corporations would have made it would be they would be better planned, less traffic death and a solution for the roadway problems would have been decided sometime ago. Each city would have a much more advanced rail system because the costs would have been driven far lower and not accelerated out of control.

Simply give corporations more eminent domain laws that would have aided their favor. Cities would have been far better planned and different looking on consideration. Could you imagine how much safer? A more efficient society would look like?

On power: the complete deregulation of the power industry, especially nuclear would have been a great step for the corporations. We would have easily established thorium based nuke plants (6th and 7th generation) and had Mr fusions potentially at this point. When I state this is corporations could drop these into third world countries and solved energy independence.

See what I mean government adds to costs to society, by manipulating the people to believe they are the only option and slowing advancement. Government is not the only solution we have at our fingertips.. Nothing wrong with a healthy dose of competition..

It's the American way.

This post has been edited by Nicodimas: 29 August 2016 - 09:56 PM

[worry]

Are you sure?

[Gnaw]

Nicodimas, on 29 August 2016 - 09:51 PM, said:

Vengeance, on 25 August 2016 - 04:23 PM, said:

Nicodimas, on 25 August 2016 - 05:53 AM, said:

Defeat is how people that like the government think...ya know?

Says the man who drives on roads that the government built. Responding on a computer that is powered by electricity (Tax subsidies).

Roads really? Totally the most dissapointing argument. The govt basically has a monopoly on this with disasterous results. It could have been different and allowed society to pass this to the corporations.

Now calm down and carefully consider the impact of private roads. Government roads are responsible for 50k traffic deaths, never-ending resurfacing costs, traffic jams and I could go on. Now if you went in with a open mind about the changes corporations would have made it would be they would be better planned, less traffic death and a solution for the roadway problems would have been decided sometime ago. Each city would have a much more advanced rail system because the costs would have been driven far lower and not accelerated out of control.

Simply give corporations more eminent domain laws that would have aided their favor. Cities would have been far better planned and different looking on consideration. Could you imagine how much safer? A more efficient society would look like?

On power: the complete deregulation of the power industry, especially nuclear would have been a great step for the corporations. We would have easily established thorium based nuke plants (6th and 7th generation) and had Mr fusions potentially at this point. When I state this is corporations could drop these into third world countries and solved energy independence.

See what I mean government adds to costs to society, by manipulating the people to believe they are the only option and slowing advancement. Government is not the only solution we have at our fingertips.. Nothing wrong with a healthy dose of competition..

It's the American way.

You're smoking Atlas Shrugged books again I see. Those things kill brain cells faster than PCP.
😏

[Nicodimas]

Gnaw, on 29 August 2016 - 09:58 PM, said:

Nicodimas, on 29 August 2016 - 09:51 PM, said:

Vengeance, on 25 August 2016 - 04:23 PM, said:

Nicodimas, on 25 August 2016 - 05:53 AM, said:

Defeat is how people that like the government think...ya know?

Says the man who drives on roads that the government built. Responding on a computer that is powered by electricity (Tax subsidies).

Roads really? Totally the most dissapointing argument. The govt basically has a monopoly on this with disasterous results. It could have been different and allowed society to pass this to the corporations.

Now calm down and carefully consider the impact of private roads. Government roads are responsible for 50k traffic deaths, never-ending resurfacing costs, traffic jams and I could go on. Now if you went in with a open mind about the changes corporations would have made it would be they would be better planned, less traffic death and a solution for the roadway problems would have been decided sometime ago. Each city would have a much more advanced rail system because the costs would have been driven far lower and not accelerated out of control.

Simply give corporations more eminent domain laws that would have aided their favor. Cities would have been far better planned and different looking on consideration. Could you imagine how much safer? A more efficient society would look like?

On power: the complete deregulation of the power industry, especially nuclear would have been a great step for the corporations. We would have easily established thorium based nuke plants (6th and 7th generation) and had Mr fusions potentially at this point. When I state this is corporations could drop these into third world countries and solved energy independence.

See what I mean government adds to costs to society, by manipulating the people to believe they are the only option and slowing advancement. Government is not the only solution we have at our fingertips.. Nothing wrong with a healthy dose of competition..

It's the American way.

You're smoking Atlas Shrugged books again I see. Those things kill brain cells faster than PCP.
��

Not at all think about it..it's a win win. You all are jut really used to the way it is...think progressively on it:

We just implant sensors on car's that accrue and charge you for using Apple Highway 1. The profits from the road's would be fully profit shared to workers inside Apple Corporation. You could tax these profit's at a certain percent to pay for government programs. Consider.

Corporations would be forced to find better way's to mitigate cost's involved to increase profit. How would they do this? Better and longer lasting roads? People dieing on their roads. They could be Sued!! They would figure out ways to lower death. See what I am saying?

This post has been edited by Nicodimas: 29 August 2016 - 10:03 PM

[Vengeance]

Nico that is a nice theory.

Pray tell what would drive the long term investment of corporations. Share price or concern of fellow citizens? It would be share price. Which means cost savings. Which means with no regulation the bare minimum effort that would allow them the maximum amount of effort.

As for your theory on nuclear power. With no regulation we wouldnot even have nuclear power. We would have coal power and child labor. With no regulations we would have 2 Great Lakes that are dead zones of life. We would be like China but 1000 times worse. With no government we would have strip mining in Yellowstone and the dead lands. Our forests would be a distant memory. Your utopian dream of corporations that care have never existed not nor would it ever exist. As for completion to build roads there is. The government says we are going to build this road. Companies submit bids to build the road. There bids are examined and the one that fits all of the regulatory requirements and is best price is chosen. The government doesn't own the construction companies but it does pay them to build the road. No company could have afforded to build the national highway system. Nobody but the federal government.

Go play at breitbart.

[worry]

Vengeance, on 29 August 2016 - 11:19 PM, said:

Go play at breitbart.

Let's not say anything we can never take back!

[Nicodimas]

Vengeance, on 29 August 2016 - 11:19 PM, said:

Nico that is a nice theory.

Pray tell what would drive the long term investment of corporations. Share price or concern of fellow citizens? It would be share price. Which means cost savings. Which means with no regulation the bare minimum effort that would allow them the maximum amount of effort.

As for your theory on nuclear power. With no regulation we wouldnot even have nuclear power. We would have coal power and child labor. With no regulations we would have 2 Great Lakes that are dead zones of life. We would be like China but 1000 times worse. With no government we would have strip mining in Yellowstone and the dead lands. Our forests would be a distant memory. Your utopian dream of corporations that care have never existed not nor would it ever exist. As for completion to build roads there is. The government says we are going to build this road. Companies submit bids to build the road. There bids are examined and the one that fits all of the regulatory requirements and is best price is chosen. The government doesn't own the construction companies but it does pay them to build the road. No company could have afforded to build the national highway system. Nobody but the federal government.

Go play at breitbart.

I have never suggested no government in the above, I suggested for the government to impart the reaping of the profits to private corporations. You see the distinction.

Government would still be able to place law's for the good will of the people, of course, to protect them. That would never change.

I don't know let's logically figure out a path to make this work, a thought game. Private road's could be sold, or leased to these corporations on the expectation that they fulfill societies goodwill. They would pass their direct profits to profit sharing remember. The corporation would be able to use it's own subsidiaries in creating the road's for instance. It would create a company people would want to work for, by shift gain from shareholder/stakeholders to the people themselves. This could even be taxed to fund all sorts of programs for benefit of those same people.

[Nicodimas]

Vengeance, on 29 August 2016 - 11:19 PM, said:

As for your theory on nuclear power. With no regulation we wouldnot even have nuclear power. We would have coal power and child labor. With no regulations we would have 2 Great Lakes that are dead zones of life. We would be like China but 1000 times worse. With no government we would have strip mining in Yellowstone and the dead lands. Our forests would be a distant memory. Your utopian dream of corporations that care have never existed not nor would it ever exist. As for completion to build roads there is. The government says we are going to build this road. Companies submit bids to build the road. There bids are examined and the one that fits all of the regulatory requirements and is best price is chosen. The government doesn't own the construction companies but it does pay them to build the road. No company could have afforded to build the national highway system. Nobody but the federal government.

Go play at breitbart.

I did state "complete" deregulation, when I should have stated corporate-government collaborative based deregulation, this would be the system of using the best part of corporations to enhance the current system's to fast track technology systems that are available now.

For instance:
The forest's would be enhanced in this process! We could privatize forest systems, this way logging could get in there and minimize forest fires. This is a problem if your in the know. The money from logging would go to replanting sustainable agriculture system's that would be master planned.

It's not a utopia, by any mean's it's just a greater way for systems to work together, then by placing so many scenarios as lose lose. Enhanced co-operate collaborative programs

Quote

No company could have afforded to build the national highway system

No company was allowed to try. Who built the railroads again?

[Silencer]

Nicodimas, on 29 August 2016 - 11:53 PM, said:

Vengeance, on 29 August 2016 - 11:19 PM, said:

Nico that is a nice theory.

Pray tell what would drive the long term investment of corporations. Share price or concern of fellow citizens? It would be share price. Which means cost savings. Which means with no regulation the bare minimum effort that would allow them the maximum amount of effort.

As for your theory on nuclear power. With no regulation we wouldnot even have nuclear power. We would have coal power and child labor. With no regulations we would have 2 Great Lakes that are dead zones of life. We would be like China but 1000 times worse. With no government we would have strip mining in Yellowstone and the dead lands. Our forests would be a distant memory. Your utopian dream of corporations that care have never existed not nor would it ever exist. As for completion to build roads there is. The government says we are going to build this road. Companies submit bids to build the road. There bids are examined and the one that fits all of the regulatory requirements and is best price is chosen. The government doesn't own the construction companies but it does pay them to build the road. No company could have afforded to build the national highway system. Nobody but the federal government.

Go play at breitbart.

I have never suggested no government in the above, I suggested for the government to impart the reaping of the profits to private corporations. You see the distinction.

Government would still be able to place law's for the good will of the people, of course, to protect them. That would never change.

I don't know let's logically figure out a path to make this work, a thought game. Private road's could be sold, or leased to these corporations on the expectation that they fulfill societies goodwill. They would pass their direct profits to profit sharing remember. The corporation would be able to use it's own subsidiaries in creating the road's for instance. It would create a company people would want to work for, by shift gain from shareholder/stakeholders to the people themselves. This could even be taxed to fund all sorts of programs for benefit of those same people.

Ever since New Zealand started putting Road works out to tender the quality has dropped noticeably (from materials, to process, to complaints response). So you see, Nico, it didn't work and is objectively worse than the government option. In fact, I'd wager that's exactly what happened in the US and is why your roads are shot now too. (not increasing the gas tax / revenue gathering to fund infrastructure repair is at fault too, of course).

[Nicodimas]

Silencer, on 30 August 2016 - 12:16 AM, said:

Nicodimas, on 29 August 2016 - 11:53 PM, said:

Vengeance, on 29 August 2016 - 11:19 PM, said:

Nico that is a nice theory.

Pray tell what would drive the long term investment of corporations. Share price or concern of fellow citizens? It would be share price. Which means cost savings. Which means with no regulation the bare minimum effort that would allow them the maximum amount of effort.

As for your theory on nuclear power. With no regulation we wouldnot even have nuclear power. We would have coal power and child labor. With no regulations we would have 2 Great Lakes that are dead zones of life. We would be like China but 1000 times worse. With no government we would have strip mining in Yellowstone and the dead lands. Our forests would be a distant memory. Your utopian dream of corporations that care have never existed not nor would it ever exist. As for completion to build roads there is. The government says we are going to build this road. Companies submit bids to build the road. There bids are examined and the one that fits all of the regulatory requirements and is best price is chosen. The government doesn't own the construction companies but it does pay them to build the road. No company could have afforded to build the national highway system. Nobody but the federal government.

Go play at breitbart.

I have never suggested no government in the above, I suggested for the government to impart the reaping of the profits to private corporations. You see the distinction.

Government would still be able to place law's for the good will of the people, of course, to protect them. That would never change.

I don't know let's logically figure out a path to make this work, a thought game. Private road's could be sold, or leased to these corporations on the expectation that they fulfill societies goodwill. They would pass their direct profits to profit sharing remember. The corporation would be able to use it's own subsidiaries in creating the road's for instance. It would create a company people would want to work for, by shift gain from shareholder/stakeholders to the people themselves. This could even be taxed to fund all sorts of programs for benefit of those same people.

Ever since New Zealand started putting Road works out to tender the quality has dropped noticeably (from materials, to process, to complaints response). So you see, Nico, it didn't work and is objectively worse than the government option. In fact, I'd wager that's exactly what happened in the US and is why your roads are shot now too. (not increasing the gas tax / revenue gathering to fund infrastructure repair is at fault too, of course).

For certain. Well the reason the road's/bridge's are shot is we ask for too much from the government and are rapidly running out of money. (Or have no money as we can't ask for everything)

I'll check out this for certain! I know our government is really squared away in term's protocols they place toward's construction. You can also view this from the Chinese Angle with their concrete in the buildings...point of reference:

Edited to include original link. The video was far more exciting though:
https://www.gatesnot...ncrete-in-China

This post has been edited by Nicodimas: 30 August 2016 - 12:43 AM

[Vengeance]

Nicodimas, on 30 August 2016 - 12:13 AM, said:

Vengeance, on 29 August 2016 - 11:19 PM, said:

As for your theory on nuclear power. With no regulation we wouldnot even have nuclear power. We would have coal power and child labor. With no regulations we would have 2 Great Lakes that are dead zones of life. We would be like China but 1000 times worse. With no government we would have strip mining in Yellowstone and the dead lands. Our forests would be a distant memory. Your utopian dream of corporations that care have never existed not nor would it ever exist. As for completion to build roads there is. The government says we are going to build this road. Companies submit bids to build the road. There bids are examined and the one that fits all of the regulatory requirements and is best price is chosen. The government doesn't own the construction companies but it does pay them to build the road. No company could have afforded to build the national highway system. Nobody but the federal government.

Go play at breitbart.

I did state "complete" deregulation, when I should have stated corporate-government collaborative based deregulation, this would be the system of using the best part of corporations to enhance the current system's to fast track technology systems that are available now.

For instance:
The forest's would be enhanced in this process! We could privatize forest systems, this way logging could get in there and minimize forest fires. This is a problem if your in the know. The money from logging would go to replanting sustainable agriculture system's that would be master planned.

It's not a utopia, by any mean's it's just a greater way for systems to work together, then by placing so many scenarios as lose lose. Enhanced co-operate collaborative programs

Quote

No company could have afforded to build the national highway system

No company was allowed to try. Who built the railroads again?

Corporations with government subsidies and using slave like labor in order to keep costs down. Oh and by out right theft and or murder to get any land that would not be sold to them. Yeah that is a great example. How many thousands died because the government didn't enforce regulation?

Let's look further at the railroads. They were only linked to specific stops because it was to expensive even with government subsidies to link every town. One of the reasons the government took over for the national roads. The railroad paid people nothing and worked them to death while the owners became barons and the richest people in the country. Yeah feel free to go back to that time if you wish.

[worry]

I'm a big fan of robber barons becoming million- and billionaires on the backs of quasi-slave labor and then like establishing a library or concert hall in their will to make up for it.

[Nicodimas]

Vengeance, on 30 August 2016 - 12:30 AM, said:

Nicodimas, on 30 August 2016 - 12:13 AM, said:

Vengeance, on 29 August 2016 - 11:19 PM, said:

As for your theory on nuclear power. With no regulation we wouldnot even have nuclear power. We would have coal power and child labor. With no regulations we would have 2 Great Lakes that are dead zones of life. We would be like China but 1000 times worse. With no government we would have strip mining in Yellowstone and the dead lands. Our forests would be a distant memory. Your utopian dream of corporations that care have never existed not nor would it ever exist. As for completion to build roads there is. The government says we are going to build this road. Companies submit bids to build the road. There bids are examined and the one that fits all of the regulatory requirements and is best price is chosen. The government doesn't own the construction companies but it does pay them to build the road. No company could have afforded to build the national highway system. Nobody but the federal government.

Go play at breitbart.

I did state "complete" deregulation, when I should have stated corporate-government collaborative based deregulation, this would be the system of using the best part of corporations to enhance the current system's to fast track technology systems that are available now.

For instance:
The forest's would be enhanced in this process! We could privatize forest systems, this way logging could get in there and minimize forest fires. This is a problem if your in the know. The money from logging would go to replanting sustainable agriculture system's that would be master planned.

It's not a utopia, by any mean's it's just a greater way for systems to work together, then by placing so many scenarios as lose lose. Enhanced co-operate collaborative programs

Quote

No company could have afforded to build the national highway system

No company was allowed to try. Who built the railroads again?

Corporations with government subsidies and using slave like labor in order to keep costs down. Oh and by out right theft and or murder to get any land that would not be sold to them. Yeah that is a great example. How many thousands died because the government didn't enforce regulation?

Let's look further at the railroads. They were only linked to specific stops because it was to expensive even with government subsidies to link every town. One of the reasons the government took over for the national roads. The railroad paid people nothing and worked them to death while the owners became barons and the richest people in the country. Yeah feel free to go back to that time if you wish.

I counter with Robots. Granted there will be a establishment of robot rights, but that's probably decades away.

[Vengeance]

Nicodimas, on 30 August 2016 - 12:28 AM, said:

Silencer, on 30 August 2016 - 12:16 AM, said:

Nicodimas, on 29 August 2016 - 11:53 PM, said:

Vengeance, on 29 August 2016 - 11:19 PM, said:

Nico that is a nice theory.

Pray tell what would drive the long term investment of corporations. Share price or concern of fellow citizens? It would be share price. Which means cost savings. Which means with no regulation the bare minimum effort that would allow them the maximum amount of effort.

As for your theory on nuclear power. With no regulation we wouldnot even have nuclear power. We would have coal power and child labor. With no regulations we would have 2 Great Lakes that are dead zones of life. We would be like China but 1000 times worse. With no government we would have strip mining in Yellowstone and the dead lands. Our forests would be a distant memory. Your utopian dream of corporations that care have never existed not nor would it ever exist. As for completion to build roads there is. The government says we are going to build this road. Companies submit bids to build the road. There bids are examined and the one that fits all of the regulatory requirements and is best price is chosen. The government doesn't own the construction companies but it does pay them to build the road. No company could have afforded to build the national highway system. Nobody but the federal government.

Go play at breitbart.

I have never suggested no government in the above, I suggested for the government to impart the reaping of the profits to private corporations. You see the distinction.

Government would still be able to place law's for the good will of the people, of course, to protect them. That would never change.

I don't know let's logically figure out a path to make this work, a thought game. Private road's could be sold, or leased to these corporations on the expectation that they fulfill societies goodwill. They would pass their direct profits to profit sharing remember. The corporation would be able to use it's own subsidiaries in creating the road's for instance. It would create a company people would want to work for, by shift gain from shareholder/stakeholders to the people themselves. This could even be taxed to fund all sorts of programs for benefit of those same people.

Ever since New Zealand started putting Road works out to tender the quality has dropped noticeably (from materials, to process, to complaints response). So you see, Nico, it didn't work and is objectively worse than the government option. In fact, I'd wager that's exactly what happened in the US and is why your roads are shot now too. (not increasing the gas tax / revenue gathering to fund infrastructure repair is at fault too, of course).

For certain. Well the reason the road's/bridge's are shot is we ask for too much from the government and are rapidly running out of money. (Or have no money as we can't ask for everything)

I'll check out this for certain! I know our government is really squared away in term's protocols they place toward's construction. You can also view this from the Chinese Angle with their concrete in the buildings...point of reference:

Wrong the money is there but the political will would rather drop a million dollar bomb on mud huts 3/4 of the world away then spend money shoring up the bridges and roads and rails. It is easier to destroy then to build.

You tube isn't a valid reference. Please don't bring it into a discussion again.

[Vengeance]

Nicodimas, on 30 August 2016 - 12:33 AM, said:

Vengeance, on 30 August 2016 - 12:30 AM, said:

Nicodimas, on 30 August 2016 - 12:13 AM, said:

Vengeance, on 29 August 2016 - 11:19 PM, said:

As for your theory on nuclear power. With no regulation we wouldnot even have nuclear power. We would have coal power and child labor. With no regulations we would have 2 Great Lakes that are dead zones of life. We would be like China but 1000 times worse. With no government we would have strip mining in Yellowstone and the dead lands. Our forests would be a distant memory. Your utopian dream of corporations that care have never existed not nor would it ever exist. As for completion to build roads there is. The government says we are going to build this road. Companies submit bids to build the road. There bids are examined and the one that fits all of the regulatory requirements and is best price is chosen. The government doesn't own the construction companies but it does pay them to build the road. No company could have afforded to build the national highway system. Nobody but the federal government.

Go play at breitbart.

I did state "complete" deregulation, when I should have stated corporate-government collaborative based deregulation, this would be the system of using the best part of corporations to enhance the current system's to fast track technology systems that are available now.

For instance:
The forest's would be enhanced in this process! We could privatize forest systems, this way logging could get in there and minimize forest fires. This is a problem if your in the know. The money from logging would go to replanting sustainable agriculture system's that would be master planned.

It's not a utopia, by any mean's it's just a greater way for systems to work together, then by placing so many scenarios as lose lose. Enhanced co-operate collaborative programs

Quote

No company could have afforded to build the national highway system

No company was allowed to try. Who built the railroads again?

Corporations with government subsidies and using slave like labor in order to keep costs down. Oh and by out right theft and or murder to get any land that would not be sold to them. Yeah that is a great example. How many thousands died because the government didn't enforce regulation?

Let's look further at the railroads. They were only linked to specific stops because it was to expensive even with government subsidies to link every town. One of the reasons the government took over for the national roads. The railroad paid people nothing and worked them to death while the owners became barons and the richest people in the country. Yeah feel free to go back to that time if you wish.

I counter with Robots. Granted there will be a establishment of robot rights, but that's probably decades away.

Don't currently exist in that form. Please try again.

[Nicodimas]

Vengeance, on 30 August 2016 - 12:35 AM, said:

Nicodimas, on 30 August 2016 - 12:33 AM, said:

Vengeance, on 30 August 2016 - 12:30 AM, said:

Nicodimas, on 30 August 2016 - 12:13 AM, said:

Vengeance, on 29 August 2016 - 11:19 PM, said:

As for your theory on nuclear power. With no regulation we wouldnot even have nuclear power. We would have coal power and child labor. With no regulations we would have 2 Great Lakes that are dead zones of life. We would be like China but 1000 times worse. With no government we would have strip mining in Yellowstone and the dead lands. Our forests would be a distant memory. Your utopian dream of corporations that care have never existed not nor would it ever exist. As for completion to build roads there is. The government says we are going to build this road. Companies submit bids to build the road. There bids are examined and the one that fits all of the regulatory requirements and is best price is chosen. The government doesn't own the construction companies but it does pay them to build the road. No company could have afforded to build the national highway system. Nobody but the federal government.

Go play at breitbart.

I did state "complete" deregulation, when I should have stated corporate-government collaborative based deregulation, this would be the system of using the best part of corporations to enhance the current system's to fast track technology systems that are available now.

For instance:
The forest's would be enhanced in this process! We could privatize forest systems, this way logging could get in there and minimize forest fires. This is a problem if your in the know. The money from logging would go to replanting sustainable agriculture system's that would be master planned.

It's not a utopia, by any mean's it's just a greater way for systems to work together, then by placing so many scenarios as lose lose. Enhanced co-operate collaborative programs

Quote

No company could have afforded to build the national highway system

No company was allowed to try. Who built the railroads again?

Corporations with government subsidies and using slave like labor in order to keep costs down. Oh and by out right theft and or murder to get any land that would not be sold to them. Yeah that is a great example. How many thousands died because the government didn't enforce regulation?

Let's look further at the railroads. They were only linked to specific stops because it was to expensive even with government subsidies to link every town. One of the reasons the government took over for the national roads. The railroad paid people nothing and worked them to death while the owners became barons and the richest people in the country. Yeah feel free to go back to that time if you wish.

I counter with Robots. Granted there will be a establishment of robot rights, but that's probably decades away.

Don't currently exist in that form. Please try again.

That's not true. This technology is leapfrogging. Robots are to what cellphones were in the 90's. We will see this...soon.

Who will lead this advance into the new age? Corporations or government? Explain.

Who do you really want leading this advance..truly.

[Nicodimas]

Vengeance, on 30 August 2016 - 12:34 AM, said:

Nicodimas, on 30 August 2016 - 12:28 AM, said:

Silencer, on 30 August 2016 - 12:16 AM, said:

Nicodimas, on 29 August 2016 - 11:53 PM, said:

Vengeance, on 29 August 2016 - 11:19 PM, said:

Nico that is a nice theory.

Pray tell what would drive the long term investment of corporations. Share price or concern of fellow citizens? It would be share price. Which means cost savings. Which means with no regulation the bare minimum effort that would allow them the maximum amount of effort.

As for your theory on nuclear power. With no regulation we wouldnot even have nuclear power. We would have coal power and child labor. With no regulations we would have 2 Great Lakes that are dead zones of life. We would be like China but 1000 times worse. With no government we would have strip mining in Yellowstone and the dead lands. Our forests would be a distant memory. Your utopian dream of corporations that care have never existed not nor would it ever exist. As for completion to build roads there is. The government says we are going to build this road. Companies submit bids to build the road. There bids are examined and the one that fits all of the regulatory requirements and is best price is chosen. The government doesn't own the construction companies but it does pay them to build the road. No company could have afforded to build the national highway system. Nobody but the federal government.

Go play at breitbart.

I have never suggested no government in the above, I suggested for the government to impart the reaping of the profits to private corporations. You see the distinction.

Government would still be able to place law's for the good will of the people, of course, to protect them. That would never change.

I don't know let's logically figure out a path to make this work, a thought game. Private road's could be sold, or leased to these corporations on the expectation that they fulfill societies goodwill. They would pass their direct profits to profit sharing remember. The corporation would be able to use it's own subsidiaries in creating the road's for instance. It would create a company people would want to work for, by shift gain from shareholder/stakeholders to the people themselves. This could even be taxed to fund all sorts of programs for benefit of those same people.

Ever since New Zealand started putting Road works out to tender the quality has dropped noticeably (from materials, to process, to complaints response). So you see, Nico, it didn't work and is objectively worse than the government option. In fact, I'd wager that's exactly what happened in the US and is why your roads are shot now too. (not increasing the gas tax / revenue gathering to fund infrastructure repair is at fault too, of course).

For certain. Well the reason the road's/bridge's are shot is we ask for too much from the government and are rapidly running out of money. (Or have no money as we can't ask for everything)

I'll check out this for certain! I know our government is really squared away in term's protocols they place toward's construction. You can also view this from the Chinese Angle with their concrete in the buildings...point of reference:

Wrong the money is there but the political will would rather drop a million dollar bomb on mud huts 3/4 of the world away then spend money shoring up the bridges and roads and rails. It is easier to destroy then to build.

I will review this standpoint. be back later.

[Mentalist]

Nicodimas, on 30 August 2016 - 12:39 AM, said:

Vengeance, on 30 August 2016 - 12:35 AM, said:

Nicodimas, on 30 August 2016 - 12:33 AM, said:

Vengeance, on 30 August 2016 - 12:30 AM, said:

Nicodimas, on 30 August 2016 - 12:13 AM, said:

Vengeance, on 29 August 2016 - 11:19 PM, said:

As for your theory on nuclear power. With no regulation we wouldnot even have nuclear power. We would have coal power and child labor. With no regulations we would have 2 Great Lakes that are dead zones of life. We would be like China but 1000 times worse. With no government we would have strip mining in Yellowstone and the dead lands. Our forests would be a distant memory. Your utopian dream of corporations that care have never existed not nor would it ever exist. As for completion to build roads there is. The government says we are going to build this road. Companies submit bids to build the road. There bids are examined and the one that fits all of the regulatory requirements and is best price is chosen. The government doesn't own the construction companies but it does pay them to build the road. No company could have afforded to build the national highway system. Nobody but the federal government.

Go play at breitbart.

I did state "complete" deregulation, when I should have stated corporate-government collaborative based deregulation, this would be the system of using the best part of corporations to enhance the current system's to fast track technology systems that are available now.

For instance:
The forest's would be enhanced in this process! We could privatize forest systems, this way logging could get in there and minimize forest fires. This is a problem if your in the know. The money from logging would go to replanting sustainable agriculture system's that would be master planned.

It's not a utopia, by any mean's it's just a greater way for systems to work together, then by placing so many scenarios as lose lose. Enhanced co-operate collaborative programs

Quote

No company could have afforded to build the national highway system

No company was allowed to try. Who built the railroads again?

Corporations with government subsidies and using slave like labor in order to keep costs down. Oh and by out right theft and or murder to get any land that would not be sold to them. Yeah that is a great example. How many thousands died because the government didn't enforce regulation?

Let's look further at the railroads. They were only linked to specific stops because it was to expensive even with government subsidies to link every town. One of the reasons the government took over for the national roads. The railroad paid people nothing and worked them to death while the owners became barons and the richest people in the country. Yeah feel free to go back to that time if you wish.

I counter with Robots. Granted there will be a establishment of robot rights, but that's probably decades away.

Don't currently exist in that form. Please try again.

That's not true. This technology is leapfrogging. Robots are to what cellphones were in the 90's. We will see this...soon.

Who will lead this advance into the new age? Corporations or government? Explain.

Who do you really want leading this advance..truly.

Let's be honest: the distinction is getting blurrier each year.

And the word "corps" is a red flag to many. With good reason. It's a "legal person" that exists with the sole purpose of increasing shareholders' profits. That's it, end of story. The US Supreme Court threw Ford's argument that maybe corporations shouldn't be making too much money but making worker's lives better (granted, the argument was to avoid paying dividends to the Dodge brothers, who were setting up a competing business) out the window. Corps exist for profit- that's the Law.

So, yes, expecting that in the decaying, short-sighted political system (and there's many problems with what the West is evolving into) the salvation will come from entities that exist for the sole purpose of the bottom line... it seems naive at best, disingenuous when looked at realistically, outright malicious when looking at it skeptically.

I also think we're getting a mite heavy for the Inn here...

[Vengeance]

Nicodimas, on 30 August 2016 - 12:39 AM, said:

Vengeance, on 30 August 2016 - 12:35 AM, said:

Nicodimas, on 30 August 2016 - 12:33 AM, said:

Vengeance, on 30 August 2016 - 12:30 AM, said:

Nicodimas, on 30 August 2016 - 12:13 AM, said:

Vengeance, on 29 August 2016 - 11:19 PM, said:

As for your theory on nuclear power. With no regulation we wouldnot even have nuclear power. We would have coal power and child labor. With no regulations we would have 2 Great Lakes that are dead zones of life. We would be like China but 1000 times worse. With no government we would have strip mining in Yellowstone and the dead lands. Our forests would be a distant memory. Your utopian dream of corporations that care have never existed not nor would it ever exist. As for completion to build roads there is. The government says we are going to build this road. Companies submit bids to build the road. There bids are examined and the one that fits all of the regulatory requirements and is best price is chosen. The government doesn't own the construction companies but it does pay them to build the road. No company could have afforded to build the national highway system. Nobody but the federal government.

Go play at breitbart.

I did state "complete" deregulation, when I should have stated corporate-government collaborative based deregulation, this would be the system of using the best part of corporations to enhance the current system's to fast track technology systems that are available now.

For instance:
The forest's would be enhanced in this process! We could privatize forest systems, this way logging could get in there and minimize forest fires. This is a problem if your in the know. The money from logging would go to replanting sustainable agriculture system's that would be master planned.

It's not a utopia, by any mean's it's just a greater way for systems to work together, then by placing so many scenarios as lose lose. Enhanced co-operate collaborative programs

Quote

No company could have afforded to build the national highway system

No company was allowed to try. Who built the railroads again?

Corporations with government subsidies and using slave like labor in order to keep costs down. Oh and by out right theft and or murder to get any land that would not be sold to them. Yeah that is a great example. How many thousands died because the government didn't enforce regulation?

Let's look further at the railroads. They were only linked to specific stops because it was to expensive even with government subsidies to link every town. One of the reasons the government took over for the national roads. The railroad paid people nothing and worked them to death while the owners became barons and the richest people in the country. Yeah feel free to go back to that time if you wish.

I counter with Robots. Granted there will be a establishment of robot rights, but that's probably decades away.

Don't currently exist in that form. Please try again.

That's not true. This technology is leapfrogging. Robots are to what cellphones were in the 90's. We will see this...soon.

Who will lead this advance into the new age? Corporations or government? Explain.

Who do you really want leading this advance..truly.

The robot ai is not yet to the point where it can replace workers outside of an indoor factories setting. Not on a large enough scale to build roads. I admit that it has advanced but no it is not yet there. Working out doors requires a different set of requirements then what is currently available.