[Tiste Simeon]

Anyone want to bet Battalion has #FreeTommy somewhere on his online presence?

[Primateus]

If the EU is in danger of collapsing it is not because it is a "failed experiment", but because of rising populist resistance based mostly on lies, increased nationalism and the increasing refusal of member states to follow the rules they themselves agreed to and no one forced them to accept.

But sure, tell us how Merkel killed the EU from within.

[Battalion]

Silencer, on 11 July 2018 - 01:02 PM, said:

Battalion, on 11 July 2018 - 12:50 PM, said:

The idea that we shouldn't have voted for Brexit because it was likely to be difficult is pathetic. It was always going to be difficult, the results, should it be implemented correctly, will be worth it. And just because the goverment has fucked the negotiations up right from thwe start, doesn't mean that voting to Leave was a bad idea. Boris and Davis had no but choice to resign - the delivery of this soft Brexit is surrender of the highest order and betrayal to the voters.
May should be removed from office and make way for someone with some backbone.

Regarding the European Union, a blind man could see that it is in death throes. Killed from within by Merkel herself - and when the union collapses, Brexit will look like a walk in the park. There will be chaos on an unprecidented level (and possibly trade wars, and even real wars) and we will be the lucky ones to be outside of the mess.

You think not being IN the EU will protect you from any collapse it undergoes? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

Obviously, if it collapses the effects will be global. But you don't have to be a finacial expert to realise that those inside it will suffer the most. Once the E.U implodes, the Euro currency goes with it. It will be chaos - If the U.K are able to create new trades deals around the world before this happens, our position will be that much stronger. Anyone who doesn't see this is either willfully blind, or just stupid.

[Battalion]

Tiste Simeon, on 12 July 2018 - 07:43 AM, said:

Anyone want to bet Battalion has #FreeTommy somewhere on his online presence?

Typical bullshit response.

I'll take that bet.

Just because I want to be free from the E.U doesn't mean I'm a supporter of Tommy Robinson.

Braindead comment. Well done.

[Battalion]

Primateus, on 12 July 2018 - 09:16 AM, said:

If the EU is in danger of collapsing it is not because it is a "failed experiment", but because of rising populist resistance based mostly on lies, increased nationalism and the increasing refusal of member states to follow the rules they themselves agreed to and no one forced them to accept.

But sure, tell us how Merkel killed the EU from within.

By her "come one come all" policy.
You answered your own question.
Why is there a rise in the populist movement? Because of uncontrolled mass immirgration. Italy lurched to the right as a direct result of MERKEL'as policy. Her call to the world was answered by millions, and the Italians are taking the brunt of it from Africa. They don't like it, so they voted a right winf government.
The people in Hungary also voted in a right wing government. They want to protect their border from migrants. Migrants that are flooding into Europe because of MERKEL.
Britian voted for Brexit, part of that reason, for many voters I am sure, was to protect out borders from immirgants. Immirgrants making their way to Europe from Africa and the Middle East and elsewhere, on the back of MERKEL's invitation.
Macron is drawing up plans to have asylum seekers sent back to the point of origin, effectivley deporting people from France and flaunting key E.U pillar, free movement of people.
Merkel is trying to do the same in Germany, forcing the burden of her idea, on other countries.
If you cannot see the union is in peril, and if you cannot realise that it is a result of the immigration problem, then your head is in the sand.
Nobody wants a return to fascist movements in Europe, but people are leaning back that way - left wing politics are pushing them that way.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

You can hardly complain at Tiste's response and then in your next post state that anyone who "doesn't see" (or doesn't agree with your point of view) is "wilfully blind or just stupid". Besides which, making statements like that doesn't strengthen your arguments.

The EU and Brexit are emotive topics, but it could do with being taken down a bit.

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 12 July 2018 - 10:54 AM

[Tsundoku]

Gorefest, on 10 July 2018 - 10:44 PM, said:

I wonder if one day, Murdoch will be seen as the biggest evil to befall the 21st Century. Between the British pulp tabloids and Fox News, the man is singlehandedly responsible for rotting more brains than alcoholism. Australia, you have a lot to answer for. Forget traveling back in time to kill Hitler; travel back in time to kill whomever discovered Australia. I am sure the Aboriginals would be thankful too.

Bit harsh.

(BTW I'm pretty it was the Dutch that were the first European power to set foot in Australia.
They just didn't do much about it because where they landed was mainly the hot-and-shitty bits, of which we have puh-lenty.)

Think of this, though: we may have produced Murdoch, but it was in the UK and USA where he had his greatest successes. You enabled him. Nyah.



(Back to Brexit)

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 12 July 2018 - 11:05 AM

[Gorefest]

Battalion, on 12 July 2018 - 10:36 AM, said:

Britian voted for Brexit, part of that reason, for many voters I am sure, was to protect out borders from immirgants. Immirgrants making their way to Europe from Africa and the Middle East and elsewhere, on the back of MERKEL's invitation.

The problem is not the invitation itself (I don't see anything wrong with the idea of sheltering people who are fleeing civil war), but the total lack of organised control structures in place to facilitate this. There was no clear idea on how to separate economic migrants from refugees, and no infrastructure in place to spread the load evenly across the EU and to ensure everyone received a similar level of support and prospects. But I agree it definitely was a big failure on the EU as an institution to cope with external pressures. Due to internal borders being removed, once migrants found a 'weak spot' in the EU border control areas (Greece, Italy), they could travel around completely unchecked and unregistered to Germany, France, etc. It was a painful example of where idealistic motivators clashed with practical constraints. A typical case of European leaders not putting their money where their mouth is.

Quote

Macron is drawing up plans to have asylum seekers sent back to the point of origin, effectivley deporting people from France and flaunting key E.U pillar, free movement of people.

I do not believe this statement is correct. Free movement of people only holds for EU citizens. It does not apply to asylum seekers.

Quote

If you cannot see the union is in peril, and if you cannot realise that it is a result of the immigration problem, then your head is in the sand. Nobody wants a return to fascist movements in Europe, but people are leaning back that way - left wing politics are pushing them that way.

If the Union is in peril, the answer is not to stab it in the back but to see how it can be salvaged. The sad thing is that the main driver behind the EU project was to ensure that the horrors of world war one and two could never raise their ugly head in Europe again. But hardly anyone remembers WW2 anymore and all the warning signs are now just distant blimps and history book entries. So the narrative of the EU just being a bureaucratic inconvenience/monstrocity is gaining lots of traction. Sure it may be an inconvenience, but working towards preventing global wars is always going to carry some inconvenience with it. We should not be working towards derailing it further, but instead to return to the core founding values and make people understand what is at stake if the EU project fails. All the brakes will be off.

[Silencer]

Battalion, on 12 July 2018 - 10:19 AM, said:

Silencer, on 11 July 2018 - 01:02 PM, said:

Battalion, on 11 July 2018 - 12:50 PM, said:

The idea that we shouldn't have voted for Brexit because it was likely to be difficult is pathetic. It was always going to be difficult, the results, should it be implemented correctly, will be worth it. And just because the goverment has fucked the negotiations up right from thwe start, doesn't mean that voting to Leave was a bad idea. Boris and Davis had no but choice to resign - the delivery of this soft Brexit is surrender of the highest order and betrayal to the voters.
May should be removed from office and make way for someone with some backbone.

Regarding the European Union, a blind man could see that it is in death throes. Killed from within by Merkel herself - and when the union collapses, Brexit will look like a walk in the park. There will be chaos on an unprecidented level (and possibly trade wars, and even real wars) and we will be the lucky ones to be outside of the mess.

You think not being IN the EU will protect you from any collapse it undergoes? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

Obviously, if it collapses the effects will be global. But you don't have to be a finacial expert to realise that those inside it will suffer the most. Once the E.U implodes, the Euro currency goes with it. It will be chaos - If the U.K are able to create new trades deals around the world before this happens, our position will be that much stronger. Anyone who doesn't see this is either willfully blind, or just stupid.

IF the EU goes down, the UK is going with it regardless of any trade deals. I'm sorry, but it's the nature of your location in the world and the reliance on Europe as trading partners for a large number of items that cannot currently be made without European involvement.
Not to mention that the UK has much less bargaining power by being removed from the EU, so forging those trade deals will be much harder than it was when you were in the EU.

[Primateus]

Battalion, on 12 July 2018 - 10:36 AM, said:

Primateus, on 12 July 2018 - 09:16 AM, said:

If the EU is in danger of collapsing it is not because it is a "failed experiment", but because of rising populist resistance based mostly on lies, increased nationalism and the increasing refusal of member states to follow the rules they themselves agreed to and no one forced them to accept.

But sure, tell us how Merkel killed the EU from within.

By her "come one come all" policy.
You answered your own question.
Why is there a rise in the populist movement? Because of uncontrolled mass immirgration. Italy lurched to the right as a direct result of MERKEL'as policy. Her call to the world was answered by millions, and the Italians are taking the brunt of it from Africa. They don't like it, so they voted a right winf government.
The people in Hungary also voted in a right wing government. They want to protect their border from migrants. Migrants that are flooding into Europe because of MERKEL.
Britian voted for Brexit, part of that reason, for many voters I am sure, was to protect out borders from immirgants. Immirgrants making their way to Europe from Africa and the Middle East and elsewhere, on the back of MERKEL's invitation.
Macron is drawing up plans to have asylum seekers sent back to the point of origin, effectivley deporting people from France and flaunting key E.U pillar, free movement of people.
Merkel is trying to do the same in Germany, forcing the burden of her idea, on other countries.
If you cannot see the union is in peril, and if you cannot realise that it is a result of the immigration problem, then your head is in the sand.
Nobody wants a return to fascist movements in Europe, but people are leaning back that way - left wing politics are pushing them that way.

Hey Batallion, why don't you just go ahead and provide sources for your claim that Merkel invited millions of refugees. Do that, then I'll take your argument seriously.

[QuickTidal]

Silencer, on 12 July 2018 - 11:28 AM, said:

IF the EU goes down, the UK is going with it regardless of any trade deals. I'm sorry, but it's the nature of your location in the world and the reliance on Europe as trading partners for a large number of items that cannot currently be made without European involvement.

^^

I mean this is the most accurate thing that hardline Brexiters simply don't seem to get. GEOGRAPHY will screw the UK regardless of whether or not they are in the EU bubble. It's like they think that going outside the EU for trade is going to be A. easy, or B. even really all that viable from any number of logistical aspects. It's so entirely out of touch with reality.

[champ]

Battalion, on 12 July 2018 - 10:21 AM, said:

Tiste Simeon, on 12 July 2018 - 07:43 AM, said:

Anyone want to bet Battalion has #FreeTommy somewhere on his online presence?

Typical bullshit response.

I'll take that bet.

Just because I want to be free from the E.U doesn't mean I'm a supporter of Tommy Robinson.

Braindead comment. Well done.

Everyone who voted Brexit is racist... surely you know that by now...

[Tiste Simeon]

Y'know I wasn't trying to make an informed or thoughtful response. I have found that there's little point actually trying to use things like facts with Brextremists so I gave up trying.

[Battalion]

[/quote]


Hey Batallion, why don't you just go ahead and provide sources for your claim that Merkel invited millions of refugees. Do that, then I'll take your argument seriously.
[/quote]


She said Germany had the strengh to do what is necessary, as she confirmed "there is no legal limit to the number of asylum seekers Germany will take in." (source Sky News)
When asked how Europe will make space for so many asylum seekers, her answer was "we will cope".
Repeated quotes of "we can do it" her answer to questions on her stategy for rehousing.
Green light responses.
She made these statements in 2015
In 2014 283,532 migrants irregularly entered the E.U
In 2015 1.82 million entered.

Probably just coincidence.

Syrian war started in 2011, Libyan war started and ended in the same year, so these refugees had been around prior to 2015

[Primateus]

I found an excellent video, well explained and well sourced. Yes, yes, I know, it's youtube. But the sources are all in the description.

But you'll find she did not, in fact, say "We can do it" to the question of refugees and that she did in fact not invite refugees to come to Germany or the EU.

This post has been edited by Primateus: 12 July 2018 - 02:44 PM

[Primateus]

Also, your latest post, Battalion, is suspiciously source free.

[Morgoth]

Primateus, on 12 July 2018 - 02:50 PM, said:

Also, your latest post, Battalion, is suspiciously source free.

that's because it's complete nonsense.

[QuickTidal]

Morgoth, on 12 July 2018 - 03:09 PM, said:

Primateus, on 12 July 2018 - 02:50 PM, said:

Also, your latest post, Battalion, is suspiciously source free.

that's because it's complete nonsense.

I was going to say that none of what he wrote was "sources" of any kind.

[Primateus]

QuickTidal, on 12 July 2018 - 03:10 PM, said:

Morgoth, on 12 July 2018 - 03:09 PM, said:

Primateus, on 12 July 2018 - 02:50 PM, said:

Also, your latest post, Battalion, is suspiciously source free.

that's because it's complete nonsense.

I was going to say that none of what he wrote was "sources" of any kind.

To both of you, my point exactly. I asked for sources for his claim and he provided none.

[champ]

Primateus, on 12 July 2018 - 03:21 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 12 July 2018 - 03:10 PM, said:

Morgoth, on 12 July 2018 - 03:09 PM, said:

Primateus, on 12 July 2018 - 02:50 PM, said:

Also, your latest post, Battalion, is suspiciously source free.

that's because it's complete nonsense.

I was going to say that none of what he wrote was "sources" of any kind.

To both of you, my point exactly. I asked for sources for his claim and he provided none.

https://news.sky.com...ake-in-10347281

Looks like this article but slightly different context.