[Werthead]

Tiste Simeon, on 09 June 2017 - 10:33 PM, said:

Ooh, could one of you who knows a bit more about these things answer me this: I've heard that Sinn Fein are now saying working with the DUP beaches the Good Friday Agreement because it is the UK government taking sides.

Now I imagine the Tories will get around this by using the thing that they are not in a forensic coalition with the DUP (AFAIK is a sort of informal "we'll help you with this if you vote this way a couple of times" type deal.)

Also what might be interesting is the Tory MP's who are LGBT and how they will react to this...

There are 19 Conservative LGBTQ MPs and they've already made it crystal clear to May that there will be no rollback on anything to do with gay rights to appease the DUP. The DUP are predominantly concerned with Northern Ireland alone so it's unlikely to cause an issue in that sense. It does mean that attempts to harmonise LGBTQ and women's rights between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK will be neutralised for the lifetime of this Parliament.

Legally, the Good Friday Agreement is not violated. But the spirit of the agreement has definitely been infringed. Sinn Fein can seriously screw this up by taking their seats at Westminster (which will reduce the absolute majority to 2, which will become effectively unworkable very quickly, as Major's government discovered when they had to stretcher in MPs who'd been in hospital so they could vote), but that would require a significant switch of attitude. However, there have been a lot of noises in Irish Republicanism that Sinn Fein can't really accept the authority and rule of the UK (as they did in 1998) but still reject taking their seats because of the oath of allegiance. Sinn Fein not being represented at Westminster gives more power to the unionists, which in normal circumstances is not particularly relevant but in this case has suddenly become critical. Sinn Fein also has a new, younger leader and the old IRA supporters and contemporaries are retiring or dying, so how long they can remain wedded to the idea is questionable.

Until the crisis in Stormont can be resolved, the situation will be that the DUP will be voting with the Conservatives on issues pertaining to Northern Ireland and Sinn Fein and the republican voters in Northern Ireland (a nontrivial percentage of the electorate and population) will be completely shut out of that process.

[WinterPhoenix]

It does seem as though any Sinn Fein claims that this government is in legal breach of the Good Friday Agreement is at least somewhat grandstanding on their part, seeing as this government is not an official coalition but rather a you scratch my back vote by vote basis sort of deal. However, I agree entirely with Wert's post above, in spirit at least and I would argue morally as well this is an infringement on the agreement, one with which SInn Fein can be rightly aggrieved. I find this outcome doubtful considering the past, but Sinn Fein should really, really consider taking their seats in Westminster this time around, in the past their abstention has not been so effectively undermining of their position in Northern Ireland, but the power the DUP will have as so-called 'kingmakers' is different. What's more - and again as Wert says above - taking those seats reduces the majority to a long-term unsustainable 2 seats, effectively slashing the potential lifespan of this current government.

Honestly it is at least slightly worrying, and I would argue more than that, because the GFA faces some tough times ahead and that's without even considering the possibility of an enforced border once again :/

This post has been edited by WinterPhoenix: 10 June 2017 - 02:02 PM

[Werthead]

There's absolute fury in the Conservative Party on this agreement, and Ruth Davidson, the head of the Scottish Conservatives, in particular is clearly very angry about it. Her girlfriend is an Irish Catholic and they can't get married in either the Republic (which is a sovereign country) or Northern Ireland (which is part of the UK, and really should have the same laws). She went to Belfast last year and made the keynote speech at Belfast Pride, and is an outspoken critic of Northern Ireland having different social laws.

It's also really not necessary. The Tories could just form a straight-up minority government in the knowledge that the DUP would vote for 90% of their policies anyway, without even picking up the phone to talk to them.

[Tiste Simeon]

I'm not sure May, in her selfish arrogance, would do that. Now she can say she formed a majority leading into Brexit. Her party won't do anything yet because to stay a leadership contest now would be utterly disastrous for the party and the idea of a minority government with Corbyn at the helm would seem more plausible by the day.

Incidentally, here is a great article/Twitter thread about NI politics for those like me who want to know more...
http://anotherangryv...thread.html?m=1

[Werthead]

To make things more hilarious, due to the devolution, the DUP cannot vote on internal matters affecting England alone. Neither can the SNP, but there are more issues affecting England and Scotland which the SNP will be able to vote on but the DUP can't, in which case May won't be able to get them past Parliament.

I can't see this being very sustainable in the long term. A lot of May's key manifesto pledges are dead in the water.

This post has been edited by Werthead: 11 June 2017 - 11:22 AM

[worry]

Huh, maybe DJT isn't the only world leader with a pee tape being held over him.

https://www.buzzfeed...n-in-the-system
The British government is suppressing explosive intelligence that Alexander Perepilichnyy, a financier who exposed a vast financial crime by Russian government officials, was likely assassinated on the direct orders of Vladimir Putin.

[Tiste Simeon]

Do I smell another referendum?

Brexit: EU 'open' to change of heart, say France and Germany - http://www.bbc.co.uk...europe-40267063

[King Lear]

worry, on 12 June 2017 - 10:29 PM, said:

Huh, maybe DJT isn't the only world leader with a pee tape being held over him.

https://www.buzzfeed...n-in-the-system
The British government is suppressing explosive intelligence that Alexander Perepilichnyy, a financier who exposed a vast financial crime by Russian government officials, was likely assassinated on the direct orders of Vladimir Putin.

https://www.buzzfeed...xg7R#.xv4bXj8BD

Following on this, up to 14 deaths in the UK suspected to have been the result of Russian assassinations.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

King Lear, on 16 June 2017 - 12:10 AM, said:

worry, on 12 June 2017 - 10:29 PM, said:

Huh, maybe DJT isn't the only world leader with a pee tape being held over him.

https://www.buzzfeed...n-in-the-system
The British government is suppressing explosive intelligence that Alexander Perepilichnyy, a financier who exposed a vast financial crime by Russian government officials, was likely assassinated on the direct orders of Vladimir Putin.

https://www.buzzfeed...xg7R#.xv4bXj8BD

Following on this, up to 14 deaths in the UK suspected to have been the result of Russian assassinations.

Is Brexit expected to make it easier for Russians to migrate to the UK? "Get rid of those poor Polish people who would have provided care for the elderly population, bring in the rich Russians (and their thugs) to buy up all the posh property and keep the nightclubs (and (along with the influx of rich Chinese migrants) high culture) going...."

(And if the poor Poles are replaced with poor Russians, they can double as culturally adept servants for the urban migrant oligarchs... and spies (and occasional assassins) for Putin.)

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 16 June 2017 - 02:01 AM

[Gorefest]

https://youtu.be/oSEmuPMwvMQ

Oh, Jeremy Corbyn!

[worry]

Awesome. It's insane that Corbyn, and Bernie for that matter, are painted as "far" left figures when everything they stand for is basic humanity. If their positions aren't the status quo it's because something's truly broken.

[Morgoth]

Thery're far left by American, and maybe English standards. Hardly by the standards of the remaining western world.

[worry]

Except on raw ideas, they're not, even in America. 'Progressive' policies are way more popular -- and I mean progressive, not moderate -- than conservative ones once you strip away all the political/team/buzzword associations.

[Werthead]

A highly accurate assessment of what the hell is going on right now.

[Tiste Simeon]

So... After all the words of "what an excellent set of emergency services we have, we need to listen to them" (post Manchester and London and Grenfell) AND after giving £1.5bn so the DUP can prop up the failing government, the Tories voted to not increase emergency services pay.

Fuming doesn't even begin to describe it...

[worry]

I am sad to report that decades of awful Tories and mediocre-at-best Labour 'moderates' have turned our dear Tiste into a democratic socialist.

[Illuyankas]

Latest attempt by the PLP to go against the rest of the party currently in progress, sensibly timed right as Corbyn's in a very strong position so they must think fucking Labour over when the Tories have engineered an own goal is still a good idea even after the post-Brexit Chicken Coup

[Mezla PigDog]

Do you mean the amendment on leaving the single market? I rather sympathise on that one, especially for MPs representing strongly remain areas. They are representing their constituents and not their party which is the democratic thing to do.

[Tiste Simeon]

Yeah I'm not sure what to think about that either. I know Corbyn isn't exactly pro-EU but I'm still staunchly in favour of it and I think a lot of MP's are still trying to get the best deal for us. The Queen's speech was a pathetic and vague mess and somehow there hasn't been much of an outcry against it from the opposition.

Or at least from what I can tell anyway.

[Gorefest]

It is all a bit of a mighty clusterfuck. Not sure what to think about the whole thing anymore.

I understand the uproar about the Tory proposals for EU citizens like myself in the UK after Brexit. The Tory proposal falls far short of what the EU is offering UK citizens in the EU. Then again, I also appreciate that if you would let myself and other EU nationals keep the full package of current rights in the UK post-Brexit, we would basically have more rights and freedoms than our British neighbours, which doesn't feel fair either. I'm very conflicted at the moment. I was in the process of registering for permanent residence status, but it now appears that anyone who obtained that status will have to reapply for a new 'settled status' anyway further down the line, so there is suddenly no point anymore.

Is it really so much to ask to just get some bloody clarity? I'll happily register, I'll even take a bleeding ID card, and I'll happily go down the route of getting British citizenship as well if that is required, but FFS just stop with the endless vagueness and contradictory information.