[Tattersail_]

Khellendros, on 27 April 2016 - 01:51 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 27 April 2016 - 01:48 PM, said:

@HO blame Khell. It's all we can do.

Oh my the deflections are rolling in rather prematurely aren't they?

My gut says he's town.

Anyway, regardless, blame Khell is a good reaction to any situation 😂

[HiddenOne]

That was actually a serious question. Maybe Tapper will address it when he comes on.

[Khellendros]

HiddenOne, on 27 April 2016 - 01:44 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 27 April 2016 - 01:39 PM, said:

I think with 12 players expressing interest in voting him that he won't be the droid we're looking for.

So what are we supposed to do? Half the train professes he must be scum, the other half just wants a lynch - with a couple people (like yourself) that think he's innocent, but want to lynch him anyway.

What is the right approach? Can you give someone a pass in this scenario, or do we just send them on to oblivion?

Depends on the day and situation. I'm in the town needs a lynch day 1 camp even if you don't agree with it. But it helps that I also like and started this particular lynch train. Other days, you just use your best judgement based on your read.

[HiddenOne]

Tattersail_, on 27 April 2016 - 08:51 AM, said:

Remove vote


Finished my read up, i'm leaning towards voting for HO, thanks to Sergei's case but also the way HO comes onto the thread, quotes a few people, votes Andorion, says he's finished his DKT style catch up

HiddenOne, on 26 April 2016 - 02:29 PM, said:

DKT style catch up^TM is complete, so back to work - I'm out of time to slack off

Yet he added no content, replied to a few quotes with cheeky one liners, and hurtfully didn't mention me once. Sounds bitchy doesn't it, but if you look, Andorion, Messremb, Tapper, Macros, Dhenrabi, had all mentioned me, quoted me and I'd been voted. He doesn't mention Ando's 2 votes on him, nothing mentioned by HO just a little vote on Ando which puts him number 3 on the train. He mentions Macros talking about Ando and mechanics but doesn't mention me talking about them.

Skating by as usual.

Vote HO

What is this even saying? You think I'm suspicious for not talking about you - that is a new one. This feels like you're just making up justifications, honestly. And, here's a hug for you as well.

[Tattersail_]

Khellendros, on 27 April 2016 - 02:13 PM, said:

HiddenOne, on 27 April 2016 - 01:44 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 27 April 2016 - 01:39 PM, said:

I think with 12 players expressing interest in voting him that he won't be the droid we're looking for.

So what are we supposed to do? Half the train professes he must be scum, the other half just wants a lynch - with a couple people (like yourself) that think he's innocent, but want to lynch him anyway.

What is the right approach? Can you give someone a pass in this scenario, or do we just send them on to oblivion?

Depends on the day and situation. I'm in the town needs a lynch day 1 camp even if you don't agree with it. But it helps that I also like and started this particular lynch train. Other days, you just use your best judgement based on your read.

Me too but in this particular situation if we could have went elsewhere towards the end I would have. If we had all players online.

[Tattersail_]

HiddenOne, on 27 April 2016 - 02:20 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 27 April 2016 - 08:51 AM, said:

Remove vote


Finished my read up, i'm leaning towards voting for HO, thanks to Sergei's case but also the way HO comes onto the thread, quotes a few people, votes Andorion, says he's finished his DKT style catch up

HiddenOne, on 26 April 2016 - 02:29 PM, said:

DKT style catch up^TM is complete, so back to work - I'm out of time to slack off

Yet he added no content, replied to a few quotes with cheeky one liners, and hurtfully didn't mention me once. Sounds bitchy doesn't it, but if you look, Andorion, Messremb, Tapper, Macros, Dhenrabi, had all mentioned me, quoted me and I'd been voted. He doesn't mention Ando's 2 votes on him, nothing mentioned by HO just a little vote on Ando which puts him number 3 on the train. He mentions Macros talking about Ando and mechanics but doesn't mention me talking about them.

Skating by as usual.

Vote HO

What is this even saying? You think I'm suspicious for not talking about you - that is a new one. This feels like you're just making up justifications, honestly. And, here's a hug for you as well.

Thanks. I'll take it.

[Gust Hubb]

OK, this is mafia not hug club

[Tattersail_]

How can I see HO as scum when he is offering hugs?

[HiddenOne]

Tattersail_, on 27 April 2016 - 10:19 AM, said:

Messremb, on 27 April 2016 - 10:18 AM, said:

Tattersail_, on 27 April 2016 - 10:15 AM, said:

He voted Gusty, but I see HO as the scummiest in this situation.

So it is your case after all. Glad we cleared that up.

Or i'm using that as a platform to find HO scummy. Why so defensive of HO all of a sudden?

This little exchange - Tatts really has a boner for me in a way, it seems

[HiddenOne]

Khellendros, on 27 April 2016 - 11:13 AM, said:

Coltaine93, on 27 April 2016 - 09:48 AM, said:

I completely forgot about HO.

Beprepared to say this a lot To be fair to HO, he loves to play, but he's a busy busy guy.

This is true, but I'm trying, especially since I got mod-killed last game. (Sorry)

[Dhenrabi]

I'm back and ready to read up now. How much time is left in the phase?

[HiddenOne]

Well, too many hugs and boners in my convo, for sure

LB seems a little grouchy, don't remember her being that way but it's been a while

Gust Hubb - have you become a gym rat recently?

[JPK]

Khellendros, on 27 April 2016 - 01:43 PM, said:

Gust Hubb, on 27 April 2016 - 01:06 PM, said:

Itwas Nom, on 27 April 2016 - 12:47 PM, said:

Gust Hubb, on 27 April 2016 - 12:41 PM, said:

Just Plain Kitsu, on 26 April 2016 - 02:33 PM, said:

Andorion, on 26 April 2016 - 02:29 PM, said:

12 hours into the game and the only remarkable thing happening is the lynch train developing on me as I have profaned the sacred mafia alter of "Touch not the game mechanics". Also because people aren't finding anything else voteworthy yet.

Most interesting thing to me? Tatts lightning swift volte face regarding same issue when I was challenged.

Hmmm. Couple that with a divergence from his usual style of play and its quite quite suspicious.

Pointing straight back at Tatts already?

Vote Andorion

Kitsu is scum. I'd bet my right nut on it.

Elaborate?

A vote with very little to back it trying to accelerate the train. Certain behaviors really catch my eye on day one. Piling on a budding, not established, train on day one without a significant reason let alone case seems off.

I agree with you on that analysis, though the same behaviour could be laid on HO as well. I'd be interested to see what both have to say in this regard.

I've already spoken to this earlier. I'll go dig it back up.

[Lady Bliss]

HiddenOne, on 27 April 2016 - 02:48 PM, said:

Well, too many hugs and boners in my convo, for sure

LB seems a little grouchy, don't remember her being that way but it's been a while

Gust Hubb - have you become a gym rat recently?

I suppose I am hug deficient.

[Coltaine -]

Dhenrabi, on 27 April 2016 - 02:45 PM, said:

I'm back and ready to read up now. How much time is left in the phase?

Shouldn't day 1 be over already?

[Dhenrabi]

Okay I went over everything. There isn't much time left so it would be nice if someone could answer this quickly for me.

What happens if a majority lynch isn't reached by day end? Does the person with the most votes get lynched or does a no lynch happen?

The rules are not totally clear on that.


edit: removed ugly coderidden quote

This post has been edited by Dhenrabi: 27 April 2016 - 03:11 PM

[JPK]

Just Plain Kitsu, on 26 April 2016 - 07:19 PM, said:

Blend, on 26 April 2016 - 07:04 PM, said:

Siergiej, on 26 April 2016 - 06:54 PM, said:

Quote

Hey Sierglej, you're naked. You should log out and then back in again with anonymous checked.

Thx & fix'd!

Okay, so I'm off work for today and have a moment before today's Champions League game, so time to post something of substance.

First, a very newbie question. I skimmed the 101 and saw it strongly advised to lynch on day 1:

Quote

In basic games, new players tend to place too much emphasis on certainty of innocence or guilt and consider minimizing the amount of casualties a town priority. This is generally characterized by an unwillingness to vote someone or considering a no-lynch a better option than the lynch of a town player. This is nowhere more pronounced than on day 1, when people are often voted out for the most ridiculous reasons by veterans and rookies are hesitant to vote or even prefer a no-lynch.<br style="color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19.5px; background-color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">
The truth of the matter is that right until the end-game, both teams benefit from reducing the amount of players left in the game for a multitude of reasons.

This is EXACTLY how I feel right now :F So can someone elaborate on why townies benefit from reducing the number of players? Is it just the math of with less player you have higher % of hitting scum or I am missing a more complex dynamic here? Because my initial feeling was:

• We lynch on day 1 and have ~12% of killing scum (2 people out of 17 players). I'm saying 12% because with so little data, the lynch isn't much better than random. So we have 88% chance of killing one of our own.
• Night 1 comes and scum kills a townie.
• Day 2 starts with first piece of solid information (who was killed by scum) but we're 88% sure we killed one of our own so have less time before scum prevails.

If we only speculate but don't kill on Day 1, we do still get information from the Night 1's kill, but lose one instead of two townies in the process. But since doing this was advised against in the 101, I imagine there is a bigger benefit from just reducing the number of players: I just didn't figure it out yet. So would be super grateful for a bit of advice/explanation here.

So, the general way of thinking for Day 1 posts is this:

1) Your maths are probably correct. Mathematically, not voting someone out on Day 1 DOES mean that there is a higher likeliness of one less townie dying during the Day 1 to Day 2 cycles.

BUT

2) Often what happens is that we get close to lynching someone on Day 1, usually for some stupid reason that only makes a little bit of sense, but because we don't end up getting the lynch, even with the kill info (and most killers will often kill someone completely unrelated to the Day 1 controversy for this very reason), more often than not, the kill has nothing to do, either directly or obliquely, with the cases people were pushing Day 1, let alone being a kill that may give us enough information to suss out who the killers are yet. Then we get to Day 2, and if, as is usually the case, nothing new has come up information-wise, we spend the entirety of another day cycle rehashing the exact same cases as during Day 1.

So, by not lynching on Day 1, we've now wasted 2 days arguing about the same cases.

If we lynch on Day 1, however, then we get information from that lynch - for example, who defended the person who was lynched, who may have been symping based on their reactions to votes on the lynched player. If we get lucky and find scum on Day 1 (which admittedly almost never happens), then we can draw even more conclusions from that.

It is the townie's lot to die in order to try to find the killers. If you're a townie, you shouldn't be afraid to be lynched - though you should definitely fight tooth and nail to get people to lynch someone else or to throw ensure your suspicions, at least, are on thread. That way once we know that you were a townie, we can take a closer look at YOUR suspicions for any validity, and look at how others reacted to your lynch.

Quote

Moving towards the meaty part, aka throwing accusations. There's a lot of meta play going on and the pace is very fast, so I'm struggling a bit, but my thinking so far is as follows. Andorion and Tatts seem the most vocal and it started with Tatts accusing Andorion of being scum because of him touching on mechanics very early. That sounds like grasping at straws very early in the game, but Tatts also puts a big mark on his back with going after someone this openly. That would be a risk of outing himself immediately. So I'm inclined to think he's not scum. I'm also not convinced by the Andorion mentioned mechanics therefore scum thinking, so I'm leaning towards suspecting one of the people who jumped on the lynching Andorion bandwagon, as an easy way to quickly kill off a townie. These people are:
Nom, HiddenOne, Kitsu

I'm not voting yet, because I want to understand better lynching on day 1. Then I'll add my vote, most likely for one of the three mentioned above.

Okay, Champions League time!

See, now the above, that's a better case for lynching than the current Tatts and Ando cases. You're right, we should definitely be keeping an eye on those that jumped on the Ando bandwagon, and I certainly find it interesting that Nom, who was already under scrutiny for other reasons, happens to be on your list here too!

I admit, I jumped on that bandwagon too soon. I'd been reading the 101 and the combo of knowing that it's best to lynch day 1 and Ando talking mechanics from page 1 got me. Then, when Ando pointed out how Tatts had jumped into the mechanics discussion at the same time as calling him out on it... Well, it really split me between those two. That's part of why I've stepped back to rethink that vote from earlier. I'm just not sold on Ando. I know he's another new-ish player, and could very well be trying to help the newbies get their bearings.

Here's the big explanation you asked for. Sorry I didn't cut it down more, but I'm doing this from mobile while at work.

[Blend]

Dhenrabi, on 27 April 2016 - 03:10 PM, said:

Okay I went over everything. There isn't much time left so it would be nice if someone could answer this quickly for me.

What happens if a majority lynch isn't reached by day end? Does the person with the most votes get lynched or does a no lynch happen?

The rules are not totally clear on that.

No lynch!

[Tapper]

Lady Bliss, on 27 April 2016 - 03:00 PM, said:

HiddenOne, on 27 April 2016 - 02:48 PM, said:

Well, too many hugs and boners in my convo, for sure

LB seems a little grouchy, don't remember her being that way but it's been a while

Gust Hubb - have you become a gym rat recently?

I suppose I am hug deficient.

/hug!

Uff. I spent a lovely rainy king's day from 7 in the morning to 5 in the afternoon writing a resume and application letter. I have no heart to dive into the whole conversation here, especially not if day resolution is coming up anyway - but I am glad we are so hyper active. Fast pace, indeed.

Also, Tatts still rubs me a little the wrong way, but I do want to look at handy, handy analysis posted somewhere around the five page mark by I think Coltaine93 - or was it Messremb? - see if I agree with it. If I don't, that would make them a bit scummier in my eyes, and could hint at an agenda.

[Dhenrabi]

vote lynch nom


He's not the target I would choose (Bubba/Coltaine) but I do want a lynch and he has been rather shifty.