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How many cameos did we see in Dancer's Lament? Spoilers for all of Erikson and Esslemont's books.

#21 User is offline   T'nus 

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 07:21 PM

Oberl of Purge = Skinner? He seems to be arrogant enough. I don't remember though from other books if Skinner is described as tall, lean and dark haired.
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#22 User is offline   Tremolo 

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 07:14 AM

The Grey Swords are mentioned by Smoky in conversation with Iko as being the paragons of mercenary bands. As we all well know. :thumbsup:

"Have you not heard of the Grey Swords of Elingarth? The Guard are just as they."
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#23 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 07:34 AM

And here we see one of the truly remarkable spectacles of the forum world. The rare and coveted Tremolo post. So rarely is this reclusive posters comments observed that when it happens, all conversations stops as people whisper... Where the fuck did you come from?
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#24 User is offline   Tremolo 

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 08:14 AM

 Apt, on 17 March 2016 - 07:34 AM, said:

And here we see one of the truly remarkable spectacles of the forum world. The rare and coveted Tremolo post. So rarely is this reclusive posters comments observed that when it happens, all conversations stops as people whisper... Where the fuck did you come from?


.....So what I'm gonna do, is sneak up on him, and jam my thumb in his butthole! Cranky!

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#25 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 10:24 AM

 Apt, on 17 March 2016 - 07:34 AM, said:

And here we see one of the truly remarkable spectacles of the forum world. The rare and coveted Tremolo post. So rarely is this reclusive posters comments observed that when it happens, all conversations stops as people whisper... Where the fuck did you come from?


This is read in David Attenborough's voice right?
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#26 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 10:48 AM

 QuickTidal, on 17 March 2016 - 10:24 AM, said:

 Apt, on 17 March 2016 - 07:34 AM, said:

And here we see one of the truly remarkable spectacles of the forum world. The rare and coveted Tremolo post. So rarely is this reclusive posters comments observed that when it happens, all conversations stops as people whisper... Where the fuck did you come from?


This is read in David Attenborough's voice right?


Either Attenborough or Gilbert Gottfried. What ever makes sense.
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#27 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 02:56 PM

 Apt, on 17 March 2016 - 10:48 AM, said:

 QuickTidal, on 17 March 2016 - 10:24 AM, said:

 Apt, on 17 March 2016 - 07:34 AM, said:

And here we see one of the truly remarkable spectacles of the forum world. The rare and coveted Tremolo post. So rarely is this reclusive posters comments observed that when it happens, all conversations stops as people whisper... Where the fuck did you come from?


This is read in David Attenborough's voice right?


Either Attenborough or Gilbert Gottfried. What ever makes sense.


And now I've read it in Gottfried's voice...and I hate you Apt. LOL
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#28 User is offline   Egwene 

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 08:03 PM

 Giantblaze, on 13 March 2016 - 06:53 PM, said:

While not really a cameo but K'rul appeared. It looks like Erikson finally won that argument, with K'rul being a man again.


Not totally - this is K'rul still being worshipped as a male many years prior to the events in OST. Although I am inclined to believe it was not a deliberate change, still, there are probably deities in human history who changed gender over the course of time once they were not present in person anymore and their lore relied on translations. Maybe K'rul was worshipped as either male or female prior to OST but we only saw the one aspect. Where it all falls down of course - when it comes to people like Fisher changing tack... but then... he is a bard... could be he re-wrote K'rul's story :)

...or maybe K'rul wanted a gender change and manipulated the memory of all who knew him before...
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#29 User is offline   lobo the wolfman 

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Posted 18 March 2016 - 09:09 AM

 T, on 16 March 2016 - 07:21 PM, said:

Oberl of Purge = Skinner? He seems to be arrogant enough. I don't remember though from other books if Skinner is described as tall, lean and dark haired.


I seem to recall Skinner being described as tall, broad and blond, so l guess it's a close match..

Was just thinking that Ullara, the bird girl, could be bottles grandmother. I don't recall her name ever being mentioned, and the way she can see and talk to her birds is similar to the way Bottle can control animals, and the timeline could match up.
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#30 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 18 March 2016 - 03:45 PM

 lobo the wolfman, on 18 March 2016 - 09:09 AM, said:

...
Was just thinking that Ullara, the bird girl, could be bottles grandmother. I don't recall her name ever being mentioned, and the way she can see and talk to her birds is similar to the way Bottle can control animals, and the timeline could match up.


I love this theory. +rep.
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#31 User is offline   Giantblaze 

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Posted 18 March 2016 - 04:04 PM

 Egwene, on 17 March 2016 - 08:03 PM, said:

 Giantblaze, on 13 March 2016 - 06:53 PM, said:

While not really a cameo but K'rul appeared. It looks like Erikson finally won that argument, with K'rul being a man again.


Not totally - this is K'rul still being worshipped as a male many years prior to the events in OST. Although I am inclined to believe it was not a deliberate change, still, there are probably deities in human history who changed gender over the course of time once they were not present in person anymore and their lore relied on translations. Maybe K'rul was worshipped as either male or female prior to OST but we only saw the one aspect. Where it all falls down of course - when it comes to people like Fisher changing tack... but then... he is a bard... could be he re-wrote K'rul's story :)

...or maybe K'rul wanted a gender change and manipulated the memory of all who knew him before...


Didn't OST take place before CG, because K'rul was a he again in CG.
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#32 User is offline   Egwene 

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Posted 18 March 2016 - 10:28 PM

 Giantblaze, on 18 March 2016 - 04:04 PM, said:

 Egwene, on 17 March 2016 - 08:03 PM, said:

 Giantblaze, on 13 March 2016 - 06:53 PM, said:

While not really a cameo but K'rul appeared. It looks like Erikson finally won that argument, with K'rul being a man again.


Not totally - this is K'rul still being worshipped as a male many years prior to the events in OST. Although I am inclined to believe it was not a deliberate change, still, there are probably deities in human history who changed gender over the course of time once they were not present in person anymore and their lore relied on translations. Maybe K'rul was worshipped as either male or female prior to OST but we only saw the one aspect. Where it all falls down of course - when it comes to people like Fisher changing tack... but then... he is a bard... could be he re-wrote K'rul's story :)

...or maybe K'rul wanted a gender change and manipulated the memory of all who knew him before...


Didn't OST take place before CG, because K'rul was a he again in CG.


I am not sure about the exact timeline but they two events take place in two very different locations and maybe Darujhistan just moved on in the meantime. If you think how quickly Mallick changed the perception of the Wickans... people believe what they want to believe... and change their mind if it suits or there is something in it for them...

... I think it is fun to think that the gender change was deliberate... a mystery where we only get half the story...
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#33 User is offline   BionicBarry 

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Posted 22 March 2016 - 05:50 PM

Are there any other instances of the Jaghut Jauge? It seems like they are few and far between in the series, but none come to mind. Somewhat unlikely for a Jaghut who is so entangled in human affairs. Also seems very unlikely he would allow Chulalorn's linage to have a hold over him. The indication he was compelled seems to hint at the rulers holding his finnest? I cant think of any other explanation.

As to Jauge's unveiling of Omtose Phallack, and apparent notoriety, wouldn't the T'lan Imass be drawn out like flies to honey?

Lastly, speaking of the Imass, the stone arrowhead from Gothos? Was that a hint at the location of the First Throne for Wu to find? Why would Gothos give it that to Wu?

I hope we see some of Fenn in the coming novels, cool shit seems to come from there, reminds me of Elingarth.
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#34 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 22 March 2016 - 07:06 PM

 BionicBarry, on 22 March 2016 - 05:50 PM, said:

Are there any other instances of the Jaghut Jauge? It seems like they are few and far between in the series, but none come to mind. Somewhat unlikely for a Jaghut who is so entangled in human affairs. Also seems very unlikely he would allow Chulalorn's linage to have a hold over him. The indication he was compelled seems to hint at the rulers holding his finnest? I cant think of any other explanation.


To be honest, the way Jauge kept going on and on about honour...I think that's all that's holding him there. Think about Haut in FoD...abiding the Tiste rules of "hostage" with Korya Delath even up to challenging and entire pack of Jheleck to stick to that. I think most Jaghut are fairly honour-bound, no? I dunno. It made sense in my head.

 BionicBarry, on 22 March 2016 - 05:50 PM, said:

As to Jauge's unveiling of Omtose Phallack, and apparent notoriety, wouldn't the T'lan Imass be drawn out like flies to honey?


That will probably come into play in future, as they could not ignore it...but I didn't think they would have rushed to it. Plus, they go to war with Kan and all its power if they choose to go after Jauge...that's probably a part of it as well.
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#35 User is offline   Nevyn 

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Posted 22 March 2016 - 08:20 PM

 BionicBarry, on 22 March 2016 - 05:50 PM, said:

Are there any other instances of the Jaghut Jauge? It seems like they are few and far between in the series, but none come to mind. Somewhat unlikely for a Jaghut who is so entangled in human affairs. Also seems very unlikely he would allow Chulalorn's linage to have a hold over him. The indication he was compelled seems to hint at the rulers holding his finnest? I cant think of any other explanation.

As to Jauge's unveiling of Omtose Phallack, and apparent notoriety, wouldn't the T'lan Imass be drawn out like flies to honey?

Lastly, speaking of the Imass, the stone arrowhead from Gothos? Was that a hint at the location of the First Throne for Wu to find? Why would Gothos give it that to Wu?

I hope we see some of Fenn in the coming novels, cool shit seems to come from there, reminds me of Elingarth.


I am guessing that when Kellanved and Dancer take the first throne, we could see a following conflict that ends Jauge. I don't recall him from the main series. No idea about the lineage thing. May be recalling wrong, but almost seemed to be out of boredom, and a case where he could choose to break from that at any time, but they don't know it.

Also, the arrowhead came from a box Wu stole from the Azath. So not only do we not know yet whether that links to the first throne, but Gothos didn't really give it to him. I mean, you could say that Gothos let him leave, but really, the implication from Gothos and from Nightchill is that the Azath let them leave and set them on their course. Gothos is just watching with considerable disinterest.
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#36 User is offline   cauthon 

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Posted 22 March 2016 - 09:09 PM

 Fid, on 03 March 2016 - 08:49 AM, said:

I too wondered about Ullara as she was the one who named him Dancer. She may be a type for the women who get through to Cotillion - I was thinking of Minala and then Sorry/Apsalar when it suggests she could be the daughter he never had. We are probably set up for Ullara to be an influence in his evolution to the Rope - she probably meets a tragic end when they return to Li Heng.


Well, he untied her and since carried a rope, no?
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Posted 22 March 2016 - 09:18 PM

The little girl who asked Dorin to teach her ... reminded me of Lostara Yil, but that's not really possible given the time lines and Lostara's place of birth.
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#38 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 01:03 AM

I don't see how it could be Lostara, she's 7C born.There was that mage who died on Avalii in HoC tho...
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#39 User is offline   BionicBarry 

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 03:03 AM

 BionicBarry, on 22 March 2016 - 05:50 PM, said:

Are there any other instances of the Jaghut Jauge? It seems like they are few and far between in the series, but none come to mind. Somewhat unlikely for a Jaghut who is so entangled in human affairs. Also seems very unlikely he would allow Chulalorn's linage to have a hold over him. The indication he was compelled seems to hint at the rulers holding his finnest? I cant think of any other explanation.

As to Jauge's unveiling of Omtose Phallack, and apparent notoriety, wouldn't the T'lan Imass be drawn out like flies to honey?

Lastly, speaking of the Imass, the stone arrowhead from Gothos? Was that a hint at the location of the First Throne for Wu to find? Why would Gothos give it that to Wu?

I hope we see some of Fenn in the coming novels, cool shit seems to come from there, reminds me of Elingarth.


Looking back at Nightchill's passages, you are right, Jauge fled south to his "pretend servitude" and he really seems to be a victim of the perennial Jaghut curse of curiosity. Still feels odd the T'lann Imass would ignore him. What do they care about human empires: if a Jaghut is involved they are too. That was the point of their entire war and ritual; to ensure no more potential Jaghut tyrant meddling. Where's my boy O'nos at?

True,Gothos doesn't directly acknowledge the theft of the arrowhead. I think that Edgewalker supplied the arrowhead.The battered helm addressing Gothos strikes me as a sure match for Edgewalker. He is described as being unhelmed right?Perhaps it was his before or after the sundering? He seems to be seeking, not exactly a patron, but a partner to rescue the sundered parts of Emurlahn (failed attempts are pointed out by Gothos). This continues with the theme of Mael and Tehol, K'rul and Kruppe, as the elder forces finding the paramount mortal minds as partners rather than adherents to accomplish something beyond their waning abilities.

My only question is how the First throne connects them or why, (Raraku?) Unless this is totally crack-pottery

Unrelated:Is the Thelomen in Liheng a future Bellerdan Skull-crusher? Nightchill doesn tyet have an ally (as Draconus suggests in MOI) and Bellurdan is called Nightchill's lifelong companion in GotM. It seems like the timelines would make sense, given a few years after Liheng's fall from Kellanved & Dancer's return.
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This post has been edited by BionicBarry: 23 March 2016 - 03:06 AM

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#40 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 04:36 AM

Aren't the Imass inactive at this point, until Kellanved uses then to conquer 7C, and then they bug off to their various Jihads and by the time Laseen is in charge only a token clan is still bothering to help the Empire?
PUST: Go forth, Hounds of Life! Go forth and do my bidding!
CHASE: (quietly) I dunno pups... he seems to be bidding us to hurt a bunch of people.
MARSHALL: So? I mauled Mayor Humdinger's face and set him on fire that one time and he was totally fine the next week.
CHASE: Good point. (louder) OK pups, Paw Patrol is on a roll!
PUST: WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN???
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