[Path-Shaper]

hahaha. I couldn't resist this:

Path-Shaper, on 12 November 2015 - 05:01 PM, said:

I will give you a head's up. Unless something changes in the next 12 minutes you're going to get the scoop of a lifetime!

[Path-Shaper]

SK/Patsy chat

Anomandaris, on 12 November 2015 - 10:08 AM, said:

Grasp is the next target.

Tholen, on 12 November 2015 - 03:55 PM, said:

Why Grasp?

I'm still reading through the thread, but here:

Grasp, on 12 November 2015 - 03:20 AM, said:

Ultama, on 11 November 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:

Liosan, on 11 November 2015 - 09:46 AM, said:

You know Ultama, its a bit strange really the way you keep on misreading the OP. You got it drastically wrong on day 1 and I assumed you had read it after that, but you didn't know there were cartels? Who could influence the game? Cartel captain became Police Captain? Really?

Having trouble accepting this as another silly mistake.

What do you mean good sir? I'm lazy I guess. In the OP I picked up on Fener as the reporter and that the body snatcher has arrived. The rest I took to be flavour text.

The game is essentially town vs scum and I took the SK to be the main scum. I discounted all the rest.

Ok, I cannot let this go on my reread. I see no way Ultima could have been so careless and made such a stupid mistake. Also, to actually quote the mistake and not recognize it after having it there to reread? There is something majorly wrong here.

I looked back at how he acted during the first lynch. Did anyone else notice how he just danced around that lynch, never landing on Karo (despite several comments saying he thought Karo was suspicious), even voting Emur out of the blue while checking out Shadow for being middle of the road.

Ultima is hiding something, something big is my gut.

Vote Ultima

He's going after Ultama - and Ultama has said on thread that one of his VCs is to see the SK dead. I'd be more inclined to go after someone who's actually mentioned one of us, like Shadow.

Anomandaris never changed his target from gait. :whistles:

[Path-Shaper]

To Gait:

Path-Shaper, on 12 November 2015 - 05:15 PM, said:

You are walking home when a hooded man steps in front of you, punches you in the stomach, kicks you in the balls, knocking you to the ground. Through blurred eyes you hear him say, "This one's not getting away" and you see a tazer in his hand.

Somehow your's still awake enough to know that you're being thrown in a van. The driver's door opens but only blood enters the van along with the sound of a gunshot.

That gunshot is instantly followed by two more gunshots but from different guns than the first one. A man falls into the van. You can see his face. This is not the man who kidnapped you.

One more shot from even farther away and then you pass out.

Path-Shaper, on 12 November 2015 - 05:21 PM, said:

An indeterminate time later (but still the same night) you are sitting on the back of an ambulance. There are cop cars and ambulances everywhere. The coroner's office van is there. You over hear two cops talking; apparently there are at least two bodies and two or three cops fired their weapons and will be placed on paid suspension while the shootings are being investigated.

You stand up which allows you to see far away the cameras and reporters beyond the police tape. You smile to yourself and turn to the nearest detective looking type, "I'm ready to give my statement now." Where's the best place to get a story?? Why be right in the middle of it!

[Khellendros]

So, I'm gonna post some thoughts as I go. Beginning from page 1, the role PMs:

I was going to see if I could initiate contact with Fener, but because Omtose told me they were already in contact, I figured you either had this or you didn't coming into the game. So I didn't try.

I like the twist between the SK and the patsy, but has the SK yet wondered why they have a 'vig underling' option? There's just so many reasons it could be for, and it's quite a stretch to think that they will conclude, "Hmm, maybe I'd better use this before my underling reaches L-2, because they might squeal."

My role PM: Now, did I misread, or did you give me a BP after I complained? Because if I didn't even have a BP before...

So did I have a 1 in 7 chance of recruiting someone or could others other than the bad cops be recruited?


Two healers. Umpteen finders. Just a few short of umpteen BPs. Hmm. I do kind of understand the need - with the vigs and reactionary shots, bullets could be flying all over the place...but something in there needs a change I think. All the lover conversations too...

[Path-Shaper]

Oh this is going to be fun.

Shadow - Find Liosan
Find Returns "Coroner".

Anomandaris - Find/Kidnap Gait
Find returns "RI". Kidnap succeeds.

Emurlahn - Find Anomandaris
Find returns "RI". But, wait...what the hell???

Togg - Kill Anomandaris
Kill succeeds.

Grasp - Vig Togg; plant throwaway. (Placed on paid suspension while shooting is investigated by Internal Affairs.)
Vig succeeds. Throwaway planted. (Grasp is no longer allowed to retire gracefully)

Eloth - Vig Togg (Placed on paid suspension while shooting is investigated by Internal Affairs.)
Fails as Togg is already dead.

Ultama - Kill Emurlahn
Fails due to heal by Denul.

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 12 November 2015 - 05:40 PM

[Khellendros]

Path-Shaper, on 10 November 2015 - 09:28 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 10 November 2015 - 09:25 PM, said:

Forgot to answer the other question. Jails actively try to keep the people in the cells from doing things that are not specifically allowed.

Which means that the prisoners can only perform their night actions on other prisoners. Cops can kill prisoners though. Actions have consequences!


Seriously why has no one even touched that comment?!? I was sure that somebody would bring it up...

If you mean the actions have consequences comment, it's just too vague. I can picture you sitting there rubbing your hands in glee, but I think it encapsulates the game's main issue - vagueness. My abilities were pretty standard, but others had some new or rarely seen abilities - how these interacted I had absolutely no idea, and no real way of guessing until they actually happened. I think new abilities should be, at least to some extent, introduced and explained in the game OP.

We're also quite used to playing by the set bounds of the game on this site. I generally played based on the rules that I had been made aware of. But you've created one where actually, a try anything approach probably works best. I think that should have been made more explicit.

[Khellendros]

Path-Shaper, on 11 November 2015 - 02:39 AM, said:

And now it will all go off the rails probably. This many cops means that a mass reveal via a slew of "arrest" actions will doom the scum factions. *sad*

Ah, so you saw it coming.

[Khellendros]

Ah, I forgot. The coroners. There's no incentive for them to lie (unless they can be recruited? Which again would be a long shot). After all, their VCs are catch the bad guys!


I think both scum leaders should have been able to recruit. I also think there should have been a find for us as well if everyone else gets one, so that we can choose our recruit more carefully. To that end, I think there needed to be more explanation in the OP about what the roles present did. There's just too much guessing involved.


For scum to win, it'd have to go something like this. Recruit a coroner, kill the other one so that there's no questioning. Get them to release information which incriminates others. In the meantime, don't get found. Also, don't let your recruit be found.

Because why oh why does the find result also say who they're affiliated to, as well as what they are!?!

[Khellendros]

ansible, on 11 November 2015 - 05:03 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 11 November 2015 - 02:39 AM, said:

And now it will all go off the rails probably. This many cops means that a mass reveal via a slew of "arrest" actions will doom the scum factions. *sad*

Well, to be fair, "town" has day actions - actually, most of them seem to have the *same* day action, which prevents voting and other mechanics - and they have finds, heals, CFs, off-thread comms, and majority in numbers.

Scum have....a kill action. And even though the scum/others ration is 1/3, that 1/3 is split in half (unevenly) and both scum teams are pitted against each other (guaranteed at least for 3 day cycles) and all 4 remaining scum don't know each other.

So uh...yeah, scum are probably gonna lose.

Yup, pretty much. I mean, the fact that I managed to recruit a bad cop, who actually knew the identity of a Salvadoran, was in itself a minor miracle. If we'd had one more day, we may have managed to form a treaty between ourselves...but again, what does that involve? Don't know!!! Will it help? No idea!

[Khellendros]

Path-Shaper, on 11 November 2015 - 06:17 PM, said:

ansible, on 11 November 2015 - 05:03 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 11 November 2015 - 02:39 AM, said:

And now it will all go off the rails probably. This many cops means that a mass reveal via a slew of "arrest" actions will doom the scum factions. *sad*

Well, to be fair, "town" has day actions - actually, most of them seem to have the *same* day action, which prevents voting and other mechanics - and they have finds, heals, CFs, off-thread comms, and majority in numbers.

Scum have....a kill action. And even though the scum/others ration is 1/3, that 1/3 is split in half (unevenly) and both scum teams are pitted against each other (guaranteed at least for 3 day cycles) and all 4 remaining scum don't know each other.

So uh...yeah, scum are probably gonna lose.

Just means that scum will have to be that much more powerful in the next game. Abilities do a drive by and plant bombs....

Perhaps go a little mexico and have bloggers and cops hung from bridges with signs..

It's not just about upping the scum abilities, though there is that. But I think more explanation of roles/abilities is necessary. I know you want us to discover it for ourselves, but it's not that much fun groping around in the dark. Especially when everyone else seems to have the new cool abilities

[Khellendros]

Path-Shaper, on 11 November 2015 - 07:46 PM, said:

Now that all the 'town' VCs have been edited to including "eliminate bad cops", the "Retire" ability has been unlocked.

The only one who can use it effectively at this time is Grasp. But that's only possible if he arrests his badder cop partner, confessing his own deeds. The brass will quietly let him retire gracefully in an effort to downplay Eloth's La Cosa Nostra connection. Of course, he has to figure all that out by himself. Actions have consequences.

This is really the perfect example. I mean, did you give them any details on this, because if you didn't, how on earth was he supposed to figure all that out?

[Khellendros]

Gnaw, on 12 November 2015 - 04:46 PM, said:

If Eloth would have just fixed his mistake, you'd be sitting pretty in jail while a very interesting night happens.

I guess I didn't make it clear enough with Omtose that people in jail can't be lynched.


They still have a while to change orders but the way it stands right now:

Emur is going to find Anomandaris.
Anomandaris is going to kidnap Gait.
Togg is going to kill Ano.
Eloth and Grasp are both going to Vig Togg; grasp planting a throwaway to boot.
Ultama is going to try to kill Emur but fail due to Denul's heal.
Shadow is going to Vig Ultama.

That is going to make for one fucking insane scene. The Intrepid Reporter is going to be famous for this alone!

No, it was clear enough post-Omtose (see, that was a thing which was good to leave unexplained, because we actually can figure it out through simple normal mechanics, i.e. the lynch, ourselves. However, I think you should have explained that people in jail CAN interact with each other).


But the problem was, what then? Anyone can bail me out straight away, and then lynch me. All it does is incriminate Eloth.

[Khellendros]

ansible, on 12 November 2015 - 04:44 PM, said:

Khellendros, on 12 November 2015 - 04:29 PM, said:

Oh I don't want to rant - but I will if it's called for I think the premise is fantastic, but there appeared to be balance issues. I haven't read through the actual mechanics yet, but it felt that way. Just too many finders, and seemingly heals/guards/BPs, on town's side, and little to counteract that on a scum side which was also divided against itself.

I couldn't even recruit! But I knew my enforcers. Neither scum faction has a chance, it's going to be town or the SK as the clear victors.

Now, if the scum faction leaders had some off-thread comms like half of town does, that might have balanced things out a bit....I keep trying to figure out where the balance lies with the two scum factions but I haven't found it. Having multiple NKs on a single night is fairly powerful, but against heals, lovers with independent finds, ability to put "confirmed" misinformation on thread, etc.... it doesn't even appear that my enforcers are using their NK effectively - meaning, no one died - and there is very little information about SK activity. So it seems pretty hard to kill people at night I guess. If I'm not mistaken the only death during night so far was Silanah?

Wish I had lasted longer, though.

One way of doing it without dropping the BP/heal count is to give more information to the targetter. Something like, 'your shot hit its target, but it was not fatal', if they had a BP, or 'your shot found its target, but the paramedics were on the scene quickly' if they were healed. That way, the targeter knows whether they should try again or if they would have a better chance elsewhere.

[Khellendros]

ansible, on 12 November 2015 - 04:50 PM, said:

Gnaw, on 12 November 2015 - 04:49 PM, said:

As for finds, sources, etc. This is a game of information, no? How do corporate attorneys handle discovery proceedings? They give the plaintiff's attorney's truckloads of information.

Yeah but discovery goes both ways. Where was all my info?

As ansible says, all the info was flowing one way. I got lucky recruiting a cop. Imagine if I hadn't. I'd know zilch! I think maybe, if you want to keep it like that, then scum needs more ability to STOP that flow of information. The reactionary shot which then stops them revealing info for a day, that's indirect, and not our own ability. By the time the BPs are down, it's too late for scum, because all those finders out there have had really good odds of finding them early on, as they did.

[Khellendros]

Sorry, that's gone on a bit. Honestly, I think it's a tremendous setup, with some great new abilities. It just needed more coherence, clarity, and balance, in my view. I haven't really made constructive suggestions as to how you would do that, but I'll have a think.

[Path-Shaper]

Quote

Police Band (3:11:09): Car 23. Kidnapping in progress; repeat kidnapping in progress intersection 51st and Poplar. Watch Command advise: should I intervene or follow? This could be the Body Snatcher! Request two cars backup, no lights, no sirens.

Police Dispatcher (3:11:46): Acknowledge kidnapping in progress. Will notify Watch Commander.

Police Dispatcher (3:11:48): Cars 35 and 46 please respond to 23's location. No lights, no sirens. Repeat, roll dark.

Police Band 3:11:52): Shots fired, shot fired. Somebody just took out the kidnapper. Full backup and a bus requested.

Police Band (3:11:55): HOLY FUCK! Shots fired. The shooter is down! We've got two unsubs down and active shooters Get me those backups now. Multiple buses.

Police Dispatch (Watch Commander 3:12:00): What the hell is going on down there 23? Backup is on its way. First bus already rolling near your location.

Police Band (3:12:01): Car 46. Shots fired! Shots fired. Armed unsub down.

Police Band (312:01): Car 17. Shots fired, shots fired. Officer involved shooting. Unsub down. 46 don't shoot me you ass!

Police Band (3:12:03) Open Microphone: Police! Drop the weapon now. (different voice) I'm a cop too; just be cool. *bang* *bang* What the fuck!

Police Band (3:12:07) Car 35 on scene. Somebody just took a shot at 23. Pursing on foot.

Police Band (Watch Commander 3:12:14) Holy mother of god. 17, 46 stay on scene. What is 23's situation? What about the kidnap victim?

Police Band 3:12:50: Car 17. Victim needs attention but has not been shot. Chief's going to love this; the victim claims he's a journalist.

Watch Commander (landline 3:13:00): Commissioner, sorry to wake you at this hour but you're going to want to get up now. And you should probably wake the mayor up too....

How's that for the scene?

Emurlahn sees Ano kidnap Gait. Then Togg shoots Ano. Then Eloth and Grasp shoot Togg. Followed by Ultama shooting at Emurlahn (Healed by Denul)

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 12 November 2015 - 06:22 PM

[Khellendros]

Great scene

A pity the game is going up a notch after I'm out - it's not that it took too long to get to that point, but it was just too difficult for scum to survive in a meaningful way long enough.

[ansible]

I like the scene, it's kind of exciting actually. Also I like that it does describe what actually happened during the night without giving all of the players involved away. Players who did take NAs should be able to read carefully and interpret based on their actions, but otherwise people will just speculate on what actually happened, since if you were not involved in any NAs then you probably have no clue who is who in the scene.

tl;dr - I like it.

[Path-Shaper]

Khellendros, on 12 November 2015 - 05:58 PM, said:

But the problem was, what then? Anyone can bail me out straight away, and then lynch me. All it does is incriminate Eloth.

The Bail Out post specifically stated that it could not be used the same day somebody was arrested.

[Path-Shaper]

The only two people who were recruit proof were the buddy cops.