[EmperorMagus]

Tsundoku, on 12 December 2015 - 09:37 AM, said:

Figured I would put this here, but it could just as easily have gone into the Islamic State or the American Politics threads. Do I get extra points for a three-fer?

"But the vast majority of gun owners don't believe in a religion that is deeply more violent than anything else, EVAR!"
Never mind the fact that there is absolutely no way to prove that point.
Even my father, a devout Muslim, has said that Islam is a cause of conflict around the world to my utter exasperation .

[Nicodimas]

Obamas Gun Control rules are out:

1) Hire more FBI NICs people and ATF agents, sets aside funding for more agents.

A) Requires all citizens involved in a sale to become a dealer(changing the 68 law), which makes a NICS check it sounds like a mandatory thing now. Ok, really easy process and most people who do private sales require a CCL. Well that's an Arizonian thing. So no problem. If you have a CCL you can, unless company policy dictates skip the NICs check as the CCL is more involved.

So by doing the above it created a new loophole:

Trustees no longer need a signature of the chief authority to purchase dangerous items. So not sure how long this will exist as this makes it REALLY easy to purchase full auto and silencers, etc. This strikes me as a interesting ruling and uncertain how this ever made it into the document. We will see if this exists for any meaningful time. Granted "machines guns" cost a ridiculous amount of money in some cases 30k, but it does make silencers easier to purchase which run a couple hundred dollars.

So basically his new rules are basically just words and no real actions. I think this executive action was probably more about pushing the the topic of gun control as a tester. Then using this ruling they can rule again in the future and push the envelope a little bit further.

This post has been edited by Nicodimas: 05 January 2016 - 05:09 PM

[Gorefest]

Yesterday the BBC news ran a story about the new gun laws from a gun show venue in the USA. One of the people interviewed was a mother of two who was planning to buy a laser sight for her gun. Asked why she needed it, she said it was to defend her family. It really is bizarre and surreal viewing when you are not from America.

[Tsundoku]

From a few days ago, if this weren't so serious it would be hilarious. Yank reasons for keeping their guns:

http://www.news.com....990e5285bb39e5f

You guys truly scare me sometimes.

[HoosierDaddy]

Raging Cajun Gator King, on 05 January 2016 - 11:54 PM, said:

I'm sure it is.

I just saw him crying in CNN and I can't help but wonder how much was for camera.

Or, you know, he's got two kids and can empathize with the vast amount of parents who are needlessly losing their children at an ever quicker pace? Especially amongst black Americans?

I didn't know anybody in lots of tragedies and it chokes me up for their loved ones, and I'm not the one who was elected to protect as many as he could.

[Una]

HoosierDaddy, on 12 January 2016 - 01:50 AM, said:

Raging Cajun Gator King, on 05 January 2016 - 11:54 PM, said:

I'm sure it is.

I just saw him crying in CNN and I can't help but wonder how much was for camera.

Or, you know, he's got two kids and can empathize with the vast amount of parents who are needlessly losing their children at an ever quicker pace? Especially amongst black Americans?

I didn't know anybody in lots of tragedies and it chokes me up for their loved ones, and I'm not the one who was elected to protect as many as he could.

Not only that....If I were him, I'd be weeping for my country too. It boggles me how you can accept that this is the way things are and do nothing to try and change it. You're not some third world, anarchist hellhole, supposedly, so there's no reason you should be accepting these levels of violence.

[Gnaw]

Tsundoku, on 11 January 2016 - 11:41 PM, said:

You guys truly scare me sometimes.

You've not met my family, immediate and extended. If you had, you'd be terrified instead of just scared.

[Arthur Dayne]

HoosierDaddy, on 12 January 2016 - 01:50 AM, said:

I'm not the one who was elected to protect as many as he could.

Is that what he's supposed to be doing?...

Hmm...

[Gorefest]

Gnaw, on 12 January 2016 - 12:11 PM, said:

Tsundoku, on 11 January 2016 - 11:41 PM, said:

You guys truly scare me sometimes.

You've not met my family, immediate and extended. If you had, you'd be terrified instead of just scared.

I think he specifically meant in relation to guns, though.

[Gnaw]

Gorefest, on 12 January 2016 - 09:26 PM, said:

Gnaw, on 12 January 2016 - 12:11 PM, said:

Tsundoku, on 11 January 2016 - 11:41 PM, said:

You guys truly scare me sometimes.

You've not met my family, immediate and extended. If you had, you'd be terrified instead of just scared.

I think he specifically meant in relation to guns, though.

So did I. My brother-in-law recently upgraded his 20 capacity rifle safe to a 50 capacity one.

[Nicodimas]

perfectly sums this argument up:

http://www.ksdk.com/...e-guns/44671156

Quote

“Gun control kind of doesn’t have anything to do with it," he said. "But if you want to bring it up, I’ll ask you, did your French gun control stop a single f****** person from dying at the Bataclan?"

Hughes said the Paris attacks have validated his views.

“I think the only thing that stopped it was some of the bravest men that I've ever seen in my life, charging head-first into the face of death with their firearms," he told iTélé. “ … Maybe, I know people will disagree with me but it seems like God made men and woman and that night guns made them equal.”

This post has been edited by Nicodimas: 17 February 2016 - 08:56 PM

[Vengeance]

Briar King, on 12 January 2016 - 08:57 PM, said:

Also I hate the word Yank being born and raised in Louisiana.

Southern scum.

[Primateus]

So, Nico. You're at a rally of some sorts, let's say a rally for clean water, because you care about the environment (the metaphorical you, not you directly). Suddenly you hear gunfire, you hear screams, you hear more gunfire. You're a good guy, even better, you're a good guy with a gun. You're the fabled responsible gunowner who have the right permits, the right knowledge to handle your firearm responsibly. You even go to the firing range occasionally, you know, for hobby. But also to maintain your skills. Because you're a responsible gunowner.

Anyway, you hear gunfire, screams and more gunfire. You draw your weapon and move towards the danger, responsibly telling other, unarmed, people to quickly and calmly move away or take cover, whichever is best.
You see the man firing at someone, you take aim and fire your weapon at him. You hit him, square in the back, or the side, whatever. You kill him. Gunfire stops. You've saved the day.

Only, you quickly discover that you didn't kill the assailant, you killed another "good guy with a gun" who was thinking the exact same thing as you did, another guy who was a responsible gunowner, who maintained his skills, his knowledge and followed proper procedure when handling his firearm.

But, let's take it a step further. You killed the other good guy with a gun, only, you don't know that yet. You're scared and on an adreneline rush at the same time, the police shows up, screams at you to drop your gun. Now, I know you'll say now that you'll definitely throw your gun down immediately and step away with your hands above you head and be taken into costudy. But will you really? You're scared, the adreneline is rushing through you, there's lots of noise. Maybe you don't hear them, maybe you don't drop your firearm fast enough and BANG! Another "good guy with a gun" lies dead. You!

The daily show had a hilariously funny story on this.

[Macros]

lets give everyone guns nico.
how long before double figures on innocent immigrants shot by "good people" who thought they were terrorists?

[Nicodimas]

Primateus, on 17 February 2016 - 09:51 PM, said:

So, Nico. You're at a rally of some sorts, let's say a rally for clean water, because you care about the environment (the metaphorical you, not you directly). Suddenly you hear gunfire, you hear screams, you hear more gunfire. You're a good guy, even better, you're a good guy with a gun. You're the fabled responsible gunowner who have the right permits, the right knowledge to handle your firearm responsibly. You even go to the firing range occasionally, you know, for hobby. But also to maintain your skills. Because you're a responsible gunowner.

Anyway, you hear gunfire, screams and more gunfire. You draw your weapon and move towards the danger, responsibly telling other, unarmed, people to quickly and calmly move away or take cover, whichever is best.
You see the man firing at someone, you take aim and fire your weapon at him. You hit him, square in the back, or the side, whatever. You kill him. Gunfire stops. You've saved the day.

Only, you quickly discover that you didn't kill the assailant, you killed another "good guy with a gun" who was thinking the exact same thing as you did, another guy who was a responsible gunowner, who maintained his skills, his knowledge and followed proper procedure when handling his firearm.

But, let's take it a step further. You killed the other good guy with a gun, only, you don't know that yet. You're scared and on an adreneline rush at the same time, the police shows up, screams at you to drop your gun. Now, I know you'll say now that you'll definitely throw your gun down immediately and step away with your hands above you head and be taken into costudy. But will you really? You're scared, the adreneline is rushing through you, there's lots of noise. Maybe you don't hear them, maybe you don't drop your firearm fast enough and BANG! Another "good guy with a gun" lies dead. You!

The daily show had a hilariously funny story on this.

Nonsense. This sounds really paranoid and a very fear driven response. Imagine now if the proper people who wanted to have guns were able to legally carry at these events. These people who would usually carry and act would more than likely be the well trained people correct? This is basic psychology as not everyone would even know how to act in this situation unless they had trained and trained hard to get past the intial fear response. Make sense? Think about the situation, not everyone is going to be a cowboy in this situation.

Quote

lets give everyone guns nico.
how long before double figures on innocent immigrants shot by "good people" who thought they were terrorists?

This sounds racist. There is no reason for law abiding citizens to go around killing people as "terrorist's". This is a Crime. The Majority of gun owners are very law abiding. We are talking about 5 of 100,000 that commit murder. The goal should be to lower this number as a society to find out the best way to keep everyone safer.

Safe is the ability for everyone to have the equal right to defend themselves.

[Primateus]

Nicodimas, on 17 February 2016 - 10:56 PM, said:

Nonsense. This sounds really paranoid and a very fear driven response. Imagine now if the proper people who wanted to have guns were able to legally carry at these events. These people who would usually carry and act would more than likely be the well trained people correct? This is basic psychology as not everyone would even know how to act in this situation unless they had trained and trained hard to get past the intial fear response. Make sense? Think about the situation, not everyone is going to be a cowboy in this situation.

I knew you'd say that. But you see, the thing is, you DON'T know that. Which was the whole point I was trying to get across.

No, not everyone is going to be a cowboy in such a situation. Hell, the "good-guy-with-a-gun" could be a badass soldier who knows exactly how to handle the situation, s/he moves in and stops the assailant.

Fucking awesome!

Or, you know, the "good-guy-with-a-gun" might be this guy...

Responsible gunowner of the year!

You can argue all you want, call it nonsense, call it fear driven responses. The fact is, you. don't. fucking. know. that!

The question you're going to have to ask yourself, is the right of idiots you wouldn't trust with a garden hoe to carry guns more important than proper control of firearms. Which I might add doesn't preclude actual responsible people from owning guns.

[EmperorMagus]

@Nicodemius:
You can't claim that law abiding gun owners would stop murders, because US has the loosest gun laws in the world. But it has 10.6 gun related deaths per 100k people in 2013(approx. 32200 total).1 In comparison, France had 3 deaths per 100k people (approx. 2000).2
Even if you add the 100 people that died during the Paris attacks it's still irrelevant to the actual numbers, gun control keeps more people alive than wide spread guns.

[Nicodimas]

@ Emporer





https://drgo.us/?p=1241

This post has been edited by Nicodimas: 18 February 2016 - 01:39 AM

[EmperorMagus]

Nicodimas, on 18 February 2016 - 01:34 AM, said:

@ Emporer





https://drgo.us/?p=1241

1) I don't see that graph in any of the two sources you listed.
2) It says "gun related homicide", so the graph (IF true) does not count accidental gun related deaths or suicides. Both of those kill people just like homicides.

[Macros]

Nico, people are stupid, people are racist.
Take a look at the comments section on any given article on immigrants.
Hell, look at trump, he has supporters. Arming everyone? *shudders*