[Gust Hubb]

Fascinating to watch this argument unfold. I would love to see every gun melted down to build something more useful like a space station or cruise ship. I would, however, agree with Nico's dark view of humanity, though I don't think of humans as apex predators, more just cruel animals on par with chimps and cats.

But I must confess I am torn.

Who here watches The Walking Dead? Do you think that the constant peril the protagonists face is a plot device or maybe a ring of truth? I feel that if the world fell apart (microcosms in Africa and Syria now btw), we would see just what we see now. The rise of the strong to subdue the weaker, often with violence of one sort or another. In the US, we just have capitalism as our primary weapon to impoverish and exploit the weaker.

Even when you give guns to those who are sworn to protect, the weaponless die.

Guns are tools, people are the problem, and we are just 100 years from a world war where people wanted to fight and kill for the glory of their nation. Change is slow and I feel the gun debate to some extent distracts from a larger problem. Change the culture, and the gun problem solution will follow.

One final thought: seriously, how can we expect Americans to give up their guns when the government that leads it can't cut back on an exorbitant defense budget used liberally to strong arm compliance in the rest of the world?

[EmperorMagus]

Gust Hubb, on 11 October 2015 - 03:21 AM, said:

Fascinating to watch this argument unfold. I would love to see every gun melted down to build something more useful like a space station or cruise ship. I would, however, agree with Nico's dark view of humanity, though I don't think of humans as apex predators, more just cruel animals on par with chimps and cats.

But I must confess I am torn.

Who here watches The Walking Dead? Do you think that the constant peril the protagonists face is a plot device or maybe a ring of truth? I feel that if the world fell apart (microcosms in Africa and Syria now btw), we would see just what we see now. The rise of the strong to subdue the weaker, often with violence of one sort or another. In the US, we just have capitalism as our primary weapon to impoverish and exploit the weaker.

Even when you give guns to those who are sworn to protect, the weaponless die.

Guns are tools, people are the problem, and we are just 100 years from a world war where people wanted to fight and kill for the glory of their nation. Change is slow and I feel the gun debate to some extent distracts from a larger problem. Change the culture, and the gun problem solution will follow.

One final thought: seriously, how can we expect Americans to give up their guns when the government that leads it can't cut back on an exorbitant defense budget used liberally to strong arm compliance in the rest of the world?

I don't know what would happen if a catastrophe happened and our governments were all wiped off. But I know that the world before there was a concrete concept called "property" was a far better world for humans than the world as it is now. Hunter-gatherer societies needed to work far less than humans currently do; they ate better than we do right now (all the needed stuff and none of the toxic stuff). Furthermore, they did not have most of the sicknesses we have right now (a lot of the stuff that kills us right now originates in farms). In societies where property did not exist, hierarchy did not exist. There was no one to hoard food and make other eat less so they can have "luxury". I believe that we as a race lived far better lives before we started farming.
Source, chapter 5


Admittedly, the Waraonei studied above did have a problem with spearings but that was created as a result of European Contact with their neighbours.

This post has been edited by EmperorMagus: 11 October 2015 - 04:17 AM

[Nicodimas]

/cough /cough my predator comment may be a bit of of broad stroke to everyone, it really focuses on some people, not all people. Most people are great! Am I going to initially trust a random stranger...? Hell no. Some people who has all sorts of agenda's of say one thing and do another...Ok, I am off point. But wanted to clarify.

Gust Hubb, on 11 October 2015 - 03:21 AM, said:

In the US, we just have capitalism as our primary weapon to impoverish and exploit the weaker.

Off Topic: I will grant you this, one of the biggest changes I have seen in the my personal Ethos is the way I view capitalism! It's great as it get's everyone focused on the same goal. It creates jobs really really well for a good amount of people. It has advantages. However, I just don't see it the same way anymore. Some people are corrupt as hell and money as far I can see rules the world. This is completely legal: I was reading this article the other day. A person who has their PHD!! is running a loan pay-day scheme and plans to run it with Black Rock, a massive wall-street company. They are picking and expanding low income neighborhoods and will be running this with massive financial backing and this is completely state sanctioned. This is an example of the Apex predator that I am talking about. Everyone at the top gets paid and these communities don't advance. On a grander scale..debt has being used as a weapon for some time now.

[Macros]

if only the kids had guns, the old guy wouldnt have gotten hurt

[EmperorMagus]

I recently read the introduction to this book and it explains pretty well why the fear mongering approach of "guns for personal safety!" is pretty stupid.

tl;dr: 3k people died in 9/11. 1.5k people died because they used cars instead of planes for safety after 9/11. Same thing applies to guns.

[amphibian]

Every week this year, a toddler has shot someone with an unsecured gun. That's indicative of a massive problem.

In re: the wielding of capital to impoverish and loot the poor, this is not a new trend. Look up redlining and how banks would set very different (and worse) loan terms for blacks in the post WW2 environment. Furthermore, the provisions of the GI Bill changed America - for the white people the bill was actually applied to.

Ta-Nehisi Coates woke many people up to this with his articles over the last two years.

[Macros]

God Nico I hope that rep was in jest.

[Gnaw]

Macros, on 18 October 2015 - 12:03 PM, said:

God Nico I hope that rep was in jest.

I'm betting it wasn't.

[Una]

Just to throw this in because it's relevant to the heading:

I was talking to my brother the other day. We're in Canada and he has a firearms license. As far as I know, he's got some air guns that he uses for recreation and target practice. He said that when you apply for a license, "self-defence" is not considered a valid reason for obtaining a license. "I live in the woods and there are bears and wolves", is a valid reason. "I practice shooting at little targets for recreational purposes." is a valid reason, since it seemed to work for him. "I enjoy hunting as a hobby", is a valid reason. "I live on a farm and sometimes we have to shoot vermin, like gophers and rabbits", is a valid reason. If you put down "self-defence", you will be denied right off the bat. I didn't know that until he told me. But I suppose it makes sense. It's a pretty quick way of screening out the paranoid, crazy types who on no account should ever be allowed near a firearm.

[Gnaw]

Macros, on 17 October 2015 - 08:26 PM, said:

if only the kids had guns, the old guy wouldnt have gotten hurt

This kid had a gun and saved his father's life by using it before his father could. Results less than optimal of course.

[Nicodimas]

The great Knob Creek Machine Gun Shoot.



Most states have a Machine Gun Club. Our's is Big Sandy:

[Vengeance]

Nicodimas, on 21 October 2015 - 03:46 PM, said:

The great Knob Creek Machine Gun Shoot.



Most states have a Machine Gun Club. Our's is Big Sandy:

To think that people want to do that for fun. When there are millions of people who are are trying to flee for there lives from that. Not exactly sure how being able to shoot like that is a good thing.

[Vengeance]

Harvard study on Guns


The study it self

[worry]

To show proper sensitivity in these trying times, Republicans in the House have submitted a bill to deregulate gun silencers/suppressors under the title The Hearing Protection Act. So you see, no reason to grow cynical.

[Macros]

Is that serious worry?
Dereg silencers? So make mass shootings even easier as they would take longer for panic to spread. What a country

[worry]

Yup. Not 100% deregulate them but remove them from the National Firearms Act of 1934, which basically just adds a more strenuous background check, specific registration, and a tax on them. Removing them means treating them like the more basic, least-regulated guns like hunting rifles. The argument is twofold: 1 silencers don't actually work like in the movies, there's still some sound, so they are the equivalent of car mufflers & 2 They're really going with the guns-won't-hurt-your-ears-as-much argument. It's not going to pass, I don't think, but it's just one more bit of evidence of who's in whose pockets, and of course, the "stuff happens" angle on sympathy.

[Illuyankas]

Avidly waiting the Fuck You Act of 2016, where members of Congress and NRA executives are granted eternal amnesty from gun-related criminal actions, such as murder, and murder.

[Macros]

Wear ear protection to protect your ears, in a safe environment, like a gun range.

[Nicodimas]

3D Printed Revolver...For reference..

http://www.popsci.co...-his-name-in-it

[Tsundoku]

Figured I would put this here, but it could just as easily have gone into the Islamic State or the American Politics threads. Do I get extra points for a three-fer?

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