[LinearPhilosopher]

HoosierDaddy, on 08 October 2015 - 06:20 PM, said:

Meh, scum's going to win. Demelain is playing a great game in particular.

looks like it, you and I were the only ones painted as a real threat tbh.

[Calm's Peace]

Err..Modding question I should of asked before today..

Anyone know Blend's typical protocol if someone is healed? Do I mention who was healed or just say something like you prowl the streets at night and find nothing? Or wonder the streets and run into nothing but a tired doctor, something like that...I'm assuming I don't mention anything and go on giving no clues...

Asking b/c as of right now kill set for Mockra and Khell is also set to heal Mockra, assuming no one changes their mind...If no one knows what Blend would prefer, I'll just go with no hints...

[Gnaw]

standard is no hints.

Process the lynch if any.

"No one died during the night"

Start new day.

[Gnaw]

Oh, and you tell the killers that they failed.

You tell the healer nothing.

[Path-Shaper]

Liosan, on 09 October 2015 - 07:33 PM, said:

OH MY GOD THE TENSION SOMEONE PLEASE JUST HAMMER KF SO WE CAN ENJOY THE WEEKEND AND THEN MOVE ON AND HOPEFULLY I WILL NOT HAVE TO GO BACK AND EXPLAIN ANY OF MY PREVIOUS BEHAVIOR.

This one made me laugh...

[Path-Shaper]

Liosan, on 09 October 2015 - 09:35 PM, said:

Man. The recent play from Ryll and Dem has me thinking they don't know I'm their symp, and so they are going to vote for someone else and kill me tonight.

Unless they are really clever and just distancing from me and don't kill me tonight.

I was having so much fun.

Liosan, on 09 October 2015 - 09:45 PM, said:

Maybe I'LL just hammer Omtose now and say fuck it.

Pros:

Fun.
Killers seem to want Omtose dead.
Day ends without further bullshit.
I can dance around tomorrow (if I survive) and explain why I changed votes since Omtose will CF RI. If he CF's as the healer or something I'll play with that even more.
Proves I wasn't defending Omtose....

...but...

Cons:

May look like like I am a killer and therefore know Omtose was RI so hammered.
Killers seem to be braindead.
I get hit for switching my vote and will look scum-ish.
We can still win if Omtose is lynched by everyone else and I can redirect the lynch to an RI tomorrow. Assuming I don't die.

Hmm.

[Path-Shaper]

Ryllandaras, on 09 October 2015 - 09:47 PM, said:

And your alt is?

I'm khell

Tatt's pulling one over on his partner..

[Messremb]

Liosan, on 09 October 2015 - 09:45 PM, said:

Killers seem to be braindead.

I lol'd.

[Messremb]

Path-Shaper, on 09 October 2015 - 09:54 PM, said:

Ryllandaras, on 09 October 2015 - 09:47 PM, said:

And your alt is?

I'm khell

Tatt's pulling one over on his partner..

That'll be interesting if they lynch Khell

[Lady Bliss]

Good job screwing us up with your reveal Gnaw! Scum is going to win this, I had no idea who they were.

[Path-Shaper]

Thanks Calm's Peace for your help with ending the Day on Friday! Much appreciated!

- Blend

[Calm's Peace]

Path-Shaper, on 13 October 2015 - 03:09 PM, said:

Thanks Calm's Peace for your help with ending the Day on Friday! Much appreciated!

- Blend

Anytime. Although, they took there sweet ass time getting a lynch at the end of the day. Eventually, I was just forced to head my Friday night restaurant/bar and finish it on the phone with all my neighbors harassing me..

[Path-Shaper]

Calm, on 13 October 2015 - 05:00 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 13 October 2015 - 03:09 PM, said:

Thanks Calm's Peace for your help with ending the Day on Friday! Much appreciated!

- Blend

Anytime. Although, they took there sweet ass time getting a lynch at the end of the day. Eventually, I was just forced to head my Friday night restaurant/bar and finish it on the phone with all my neighbors harassing me..

LoL, I know how that goes! You could have waited until you got home, but I appreciate that you took care of it either way!

[ansible]

Well, I certainly enjoyed the game once it got going, and I might as well start there before I begin ranting.

I had a good time early on trying to alt some people, which I'm usually bad at but some were just too obvious (Tatts):

Liosan, on 08 October 2015 - 08:52 AM, said:

Oh, and Anom has to be HD. I guess it could be Khell but he is usually not so persistently ornery. I'm guessing Khell or Tapper is behind Mockra. Probably Khell, got a smooth but logical feel to his posts. So perhaps Tapper is Demelain and Tatts is Ryll. Tatts never could keep quiet on day one. Lady Bliss I can't alt... Didn't realize, we have a number of good players in this fairly small game...

Liosan, on 08 October 2015 - 07:47 PM, said:

Maybe Tapper is Monok. I sense it.

I'll stop trying to alt people now.

I kept fucking up the town/scum ratio while doing math... it was super annoying because I had to go back and revisit how best to play when I realized my numbers were off. I almost always kill my symp by like night 2, so I'm glad I survived as long as I did, but after the weekend and my ranting I was expecting to draw the kill, there were just no other easy targets. It was basically a lot of me and the killers talking on thread but apparently I did not signal them well enough to be recognized. To be fair, I tried more to lead players away from them as opposed to signalling them directly, which I think worked in our favor up until now.

In fact, if they hadn't killed me tonight, the game would be over. Which brings me to my very serious main point...

[ansible]

Summary: The game ended. Scum won.

I am very disappointed at the modding of this game. First, within the timespan of a few hours on day 1, we have someone reveal as healer, get lynched, and then in the lynch scene the healer is explicitly mentioned, confirming that the reveal was fake. No other scenes mention the healer or any other roles. This is beyond unacceptable to me. To actually confirm for all players - on thread, as the mod - whether or not a reveal was fake or real is playing the game, not modding it. I don't care how you justify it; this was a massive mistake and it looks to be intentional. I am honestly still in shock that this even happened.

And now allowing the game to continue by breaking some of the most basic, standard rules we use in Mafia. First let's see the very specific rules given by P-S before the game:

Path-Shaper, on 05 October 2015 - 03:46 PM, said:

Game Specific Rules

Volountary reveals are allowed.

RI PM:

Quote

You are a roleless innocent. Your only power is the lynch, so use it well!

Days are 36 hours. Nights will be as instantaneous as possible.

Blend, you went out of your way to define the day and night phases and their lengths. The generic mechanic/rules post goes into a lot of detail about modkills, timers, day/night phases, what happens to voting requirements when a modkill happens, how modkills are instant even if not posted on thread by the mod, et cetera, et cetera.

So, just as an example - in a M&P game like this, with only town and scum, scum achieve victory by achieving parity (equal numbers) with town. There's no need to even mention scum having a majority or killing all other town players, as these conditions are entirely implicit in the parity condition (that is, they cannot ever occur without parity being reached first).

This is why games often end after a lynch but before night. I have never seen this not happen in a game. Example: There are 3 scum (say, 2 killers/1 symp) and 4 town during the day phase and a town player is lynched, but the killers have submitted a provisional night action to kill their symp (which would reduce scum numbers from 3 to 2). The game always ends after the lynch; the kill never goes through. As soon as the town player is lynched, scum achieve parity - 3 scum, 3 town - and the game ends. This happens all. The. Time. It doesn't matter what was going to happen in the future - as soon as parity is reached, scum have achieved their victory conditions, thereby ending the game.

Here is where the game ended:

Path-Shaper, on 15 October 2015 - 03:27 AM, said:

So... No lynch, however, the following two players are modkilled for inactivity:

Omtose and Mockra.

RIGHT HERE. DAY PHASE HAS ENDED AFTER 36 HOURS. CURRENT NUMBER OF PLAYERS IS NOW 6 - 3 TOWN, 3 SCUM. THE GAME ENDS. AS WRITTEN BELOW, NIGHT 4 PHASE FOLLOWS THE END OF DAY 4 PHASE AND IS SEPARATE AND THEREFORE NEVER OCCURS.

During Night 4...

Liosan has been killed. He was ansible and a Roleless Innocent.

It is now Day 5. 36 hours remaining.

There are 5 players left alive: Aparal Forge, Demelain, Karosis, Monok Ochem, Ryllandaras

5 votes for lynch, 4 votes for night.

Players not voted: Aparal Forge, Demelain, Karosis, Monok Ochem, Ryllandaras

This is exactly the same as the example I gave earlier; day times out at 36 hours if there is not a lynch. Modkills happen instantly at 36 hours. This means if the modkill timer is set from the beginning of the day (which it seemed to be because of the long weekend - if not, Omtose should have been modkilled very early in day 4), then at the end of the day the timer expires and any players who have not posted are removed from the game. The game does not progress to more phases until the modkills occur. When Omtose and Mockra were modkilled at the end of day 4, scum achieved parity with town (3 vs 3). How in God's name anyone would simply ignore this and proceed to continue with the game by resolving night is beyond my understanding.

Of course, I am aware of the rules and the players and I was fully expecting the game to end with 2 modkills. Unfortunate, yes, but this is the fault of the players, not the mod. It is the same as if a player plays the game poorly and negatively affects his team. The mod should be an enforcer of the rules, rather than ignoring them. And before I even had a chance to complain, this is the response I got:

Path-Shaper, on 15 October 2015 - 03:29 AM, said:

You have been killed - and unfortunately I'm not ending the game that way. The modkills happen simultaneous to the night kills.

SH password is spurn

I'm sorry, I have never played a Mafia game where modkills happen simultaneous to ANY night action at all, kill or not. They happen at the modkill timer, which in this game is 36 hours. If night phase began, why didn't the modkills take affect when the healer healed someone (as I assume they did)? Why only on an NK? This is arbitrary, and you betray yourself on thread by explicitly ending the day with the modkills BEFORE stating that the night phase began.

People seem to complain that Mafia here has gotten stale because of lack of player participation. I'm sure that's true, but what players need from a mod is a kick in the ass, not a big warm hug with a nice letter that confirms for us if a player is fake revealing or not. Neither do players need to be coddled by allowing the rules to be broken just so they can keep playing. The mod is a harsh mistress, and in Mafia, mercy is weakness and failure.

However -

We all know the golden rule - whoever has the gold makes the rules. And ultimate decision making always belongs to the mod, rules or no rules. Therefore Blend is totally within his right to break the rules of his own game if he so chooses. This has always been true and has affected many games for good and for bad. I will leave it at that and end my rant.

[ansible]

Now that I have that off my chest, let me reiterate that I really enjoyed playing. Work/life/etc. has kept me from playing consistently for a long time, and it is always fun to play again after a break. Thanks to Blend for the game and also to our co-mod(s?). I really do love Mafia, and I love playing it here.

To be honest, I do feel a bit cheated, like I wasted my time trying to do my best at playing the game only to have my efforts dismissed with a wave of the magic mod wand. The rest of the game holds little interest for me, now; I usually enjoy watching from SH when I die, and I'm sure I still will, but mostly out of curiosity. Good luck to scum, Demelain has played well and Ryll has managed to escape direct attention while going crazy for a long time. Losing Anom early on and then both Omtose and Mockra in the same day really hurt town, so the advantage lay with scum early on, I think, with people assuming Emur was the symp because P-S confirmed his healer reveal was fake.

Either way, with the game continuing after the modkills, town has a good chance of lynching Ryll, I think, which will make the endgame more interesting, especially with the healer still alive.

[Path-Shaper]

Just a couple points ansible:

1) Regards the Emur fake healer reveal and my giving that away, a healer would have CF'd as a healer, Emur did not. The scene didn't give away anything the CF hadn't already given away to anyone who plays Mafia semi-regularly.

2) Regards the modkills, it is my experience that in most cases, mods try not to let modkills end a game, and that's certainly how I make modkills. Even if the 36 hour modkill timer is up during the Day, I usually wait until Night to process it, so that neither town nor scum get screwed over by someone else's lack of participation.

[LinearPhilosopher]

Personally i find it hard to keep track or care about a mafia game beyond a day or two after i've died (in game day).

[Calm's Peace]

I always enjoy watching the game play out. Although these games are a lot calmer than some of them I was reading while lurking around thinking about trying it out..

This post has been edited by Calm's Peace: 15 October 2015 - 02:51 PM

[Calm's Peace]

ansible, on 15 October 2015 - 07:59 AM, said:

Summary: The game ended. Scum won.

I am very disappointed at the modding of this game. First, within the timespan of a few hours on day 1, we have someone reveal as healer, get lynched, and then in the lynch scene the healer is explicitly mentioned, confirming that the reveal was fake. No other scenes mention the healer or any other roles. This is beyond unacceptable to me. To actually confirm for all players - on thread, as the mod - whether or not a reveal was fake or real is playing the game, not modding it. I don't care how you justify it; this was a massive mistake and it looks to be intentional. I am honestly still in shock that this even happened.

Since I am learning this process...I'll ask for opinion..Since the healer was mentioned following Gnaw's fake-reveal, should I have included a healer in a dialogue for the Night 3, NK block by heal?...Just want to try to get some opinions here. I know all is at the mod discretion, but I'll like to try to get a feel for how to balance the game. I've seen mods act in games where their influence made for a better game, especially when player inactivity almost always has a direct effect on the town's chances. Scum players almost always seem pretty engaged, while 9 time out of 10 town players are the ones on the modkill list.

This post has been edited by Calm's Peace: 15 October 2015 - 06:53 PM