[Abyss]

Some seriously great dialogue on this ep, even if it was mostly setup.

I KNEW Margerine was faking her conversion. KNEW. She's totally not banging Tommen so she can manipulate him at the right moment.

The High Sparrow REALLY needs to take a fucking bath.

That chat between Cersei and Lady Tyrell was so cold my tv had a layer of frost on it.

Knew the old woman was the waif the second she entered the frame, but didn't expect her to actually stab Arya so much. Ouchie.

Ok Sansa, call in the troops.

Whoever cast Lady Mormont deserves a raise. That kid was awesome.

Nice to see Sandor again, but that whole sideplot was about as subtle as the ax he was swinging. Hamhanded even. This show can do better.

[Nevyn]

Terez, on 06 June 2016 - 02:26 AM, said:

Well, we knew he was only going to be on for one episode. I'm just wondering what the point of it all was.

Seems to me the point of that was to send Sandor against the brotherhood. Reintroduces him, says where he has been, and motivates him. So sounds more like Hound vs Stoneheart than Cleganebowl.

[Terez]

Abyss, on 06 June 2016 - 02:54 AM, said:

That chat between Cersei and Lady Tyrell was so cold my tv had a layer of frost on it.

Definitely my favorite bit of this episode.

Abyss, on 06 June 2016 - 02:54 AM, said:

Whoever cast Lady Mormont deserves a raise. That kid was awesome.

She reminds me of Olly. Her name is Bella Ramsey, and she doesn't even have an IMDb page yet. Someone give that girl an IMDb page!*

Nevyn, on 06 June 2016 - 03:37 AM, said:

Terez, on 06 June 2016 - 02:26 AM, said:

Well, we knew he was only going to be on for one episode. I'm just wondering what the point of it all was.

Seems to me the point of that was to send Sandor against the brotherhood. Reintroduces him, says where he has been, and motivates him. So sounds more like Hound vs Stoneheart than Cleganebowl.

Sure, but what is the point of that? It seems unlike B&W to waste time on pointless side plots, so I'm sure there's a point, but what is it? I can't imagine right now. They don't need to take out the Brotherhood, or at least they didn't, until the Brotherhood became just another band of lawless brigands, preying on the innocent. Are they just trying to show the dark turn of the Brotherhood under Stoneheart's leadership before they capture Brienne? Is the Hound going to save Brienne from hanging? I dunno... they have 3 more episodes to imbue this plot with some meaning.

For the thread, some people asked GRRM about Stoneheart at a con recently, and he said something about how Stoneheart had been cut from the show, and lots of people are taking that as 100% trufact. Personally, I'm not sure GRRM is in the loop any more.

*Apparently someone has now, though her part in GOT isn't listed yet.

This post has been edited by Terez: 06 June 2016 - 03:57 AM

[Terez]

Ain't happening. He's not a Stark.

[Nevyn]

Terez, on 06 June 2016 - 03:54 AM, said:

Abyss, on 06 June 2016 - 02:54 AM, said:

That chat between Cersei and Lady Tyrell was so cold my tv had a layer of frost on it.

Definitely my favorite bit of this episode.

Abyss, on 06 June 2016 - 02:54 AM, said:

Whoever cast Lady Mormont deserves a raise. That kid was awesome.

She reminds me of Olly. Her name is Bella Ramsey, and she doesn't even have an IMDb page yet. Someone give that girl an IMDb page!*

Nevyn, on 06 June 2016 - 03:37 AM, said:

Terez, on 06 June 2016 - 02:26 AM, said:

Well, we knew he was only going to be on for one episode. I'm just wondering what the point of it all was.

Seems to me the point of that was to send Sandor against the brotherhood. Reintroduces him, says where he has been, and motivates him. So sounds more like Hound vs Stoneheart than Cleganebowl.

Sure, but what is the point of that? It seems unlike B&W to waste time on pointless side plots, so I'm sure there's a point, but what is it? I can't imagine right now. They don't need to take out the Brotherhood, or at least they didn't, until the Brotherhood became just another band of lawless brigands, preying on the innocent. Are they just trying to show the dark turn of the Brotherhood under Stoneheart's leadership before they capture Brienne? Is the Hound going to save Brienne from hanging? I dunno... they have 3 more episodes to imbue this plot with some meaning.

For the thread, some people asked GRRM about Stoneheart at a con recently, and he said something about how Stoneheart had been cut from the show, and lots of people are taking that as 100% trufact. Personally, I'm not sure GRRM is in the loop any more.

*Apparently someone has now, though her part in GOT isn't listed yet.

Not every plot point gets tied up every season. But moving against the brotherhood brings the Hound back to potentially meeting Brienne. And Jaime. And maybe his little bird. Point being he came back from the dead and is back in play. And they have more than 3 episodes. The season has Area's fate, a battle of winter tell, more Bran, more siege at River run AND potentially Cersei's trial to resolve. Hounds plot may play out into next year. The rest of this year he might just be hunting lowly members

[Terez]

Nevyn, on 06 June 2016 - 04:52 AM, said:

Not every plot point gets tied up every season. But moving against the brotherhood brings the Hound back to potentially meeting Brienne. And Jaime. And maybe his little bird. Point being he came back from the dead and is back in play. And they have more than 3 episodes. The season has Area's fate, a battle of winter tell, more Bran, more siege at River run AND potentially Cersei's trial to resolve. Hounds plot may play out into next year. The rest of this year he might just be hunting lowly members

Gotta love autocorrect. I'm reminded of the time Hot Pie said something about Arya going home to Winterhell. Arya: "It's WinterFELL." Hot Pie: "Are you sure?" lol.

Sure, they don't tie up every plot point in every season, but they do typically follow the rules of TV, and the rules of TV have a lot to say about what you can and cannot leave hanging from one season to another, and when and how twists should be introduced. My impressions about B&W specifically largely come from what they said publicly about Lady Stoneheart back when everyone was expecting her to show up. They thought introducing her at that time would have been ridiculous. It's the same reason they waited until now to introduce Coldhands instead of introducing him when Bran crossed the Wall like in the books.

[Tatterdemalion]

Another sweeeeet episode. Really wish they finished Arya's bit there instead of going for the cliffhanger, though. The TENSION as she walks through all those faces, knowing any one could be the Waif, was AMAZING... but it will all be gone by next ep. An 8 minute scene of her running, barely surviving super-surprise attacks by strangers in faces... could have been SO COOL. Maybe it will still happen, but they should have roped it together, I say.

Everything else: booyah, keep it coming.

[worry]

I liked the episode quite a bit, but I thought it felt a little more like traditional TV than usual. Since the show is one long story, every episode is essentially To Be Continued, but this one felt especially like the first half of a special two-part episode (just describing how it felt, not suggesting anything literal).

Re: the Waif, yah, she messed up. If she wanted to kill Arya right away, she would have. She wanted Arya to suffer, gave her some non-lethal wounds, and then lost her before she could finish.

What piqued my interest a bit was Yara wanting to bargain w/ Dany to retake the Iron Islands. If that happens, perhaps there's the possibility of them sailing East to hit the west coast of Westeros -- which ultimately means a march on King's Landing from the west, rather than a landing by ship in Blackwater Bay. And that could also mean a trip around (and maybe at least a glimpse of) Asshai, which would be awesome. There's tons of stuff that could make this all unlikely, I'm just doing some wishful thinking out loud.

[Terez]

Sounds like some Quaithe "To go West, you must go East" stuff.

This post has been edited by Terez: 06 June 2016 - 06:59 AM

[Terez]

Coonass, on 06 June 2016 - 04:44 AM, said:

He doesn't have to be. Just use the name for rally purposes till he becomes Targ.

Yeah, I doubt that will happen, especially considering that 1) the Lyanna reveal is coming in 3 eps' time, and 2) no one who has the power to proclaim him a Stark would do so, and everyone in the North knows that. You think they'd be more likely to get behind him if he started calling himself a Stark? They know how this works. Sansa's problem is that no one wants to risk their necks for this war; they already lost too many men between the Red Wedding and the Ironborn and the Boltons. And the houses further north are extremely wary about the wildlings, the southern ones not much more so. How would Jon calling himself a Stark change anything?

Edit: Also, it seems very likely that Sansa wrote to either the Blackfish or Littlefinger, as was mentioned above. I'm hoping she wrote to her uncle, which opens the opportunity for Brienne to parlay with Jaime; apparently next week Brienne is going to offer her services to the Blackfish after she and Jaime have words. Brienne brokering a truce would give Lady Stoneheart even more reason to want to hang her, even if it is to aid Sansa, and it would probably piss off Littlefinger and shake things up. Littlefinger is at Moat Cailin with the Vale troops.

I meant to comment on this earlier:

Coonass, on 06 June 2016 - 04:44 AM, said:

I wonder whose going to save Arya? Since its dif and Sam never goes to Bravos in show who will fix her? The actress who she saved? Maybe Jaqen(real stretch here) since Waif disobeys, he fixes her to lvl field? Someone has to unless she's just supposed to die.

Ed I'd say maybe Oyster dad from when she was Cat but that's prob off the table since he's associated with FM. Actress seems like her best bet to me.

Technically we have no idea what Sam is going to do. Braavos is a possibility, even though all the reasons he went there in the books are gone. As I mentioned earlier, if he goes to Oldtown, Randyll will find him, because he knows that's where Sam is supposed to go. Anyway, it's obvious that Sam's plot is going to end up very different from what it was in the books. Hopefully we'll learn something about how different in the last 3 episodes.

This post has been edited by Terez: 06 June 2016 - 10:36 AM

[Nevyn]

Terez, on 06 June 2016 - 05:03 AM, said:

Nevyn, on 06 June 2016 - 04:52 AM, said:

Not every plot point gets tied up every season. But moving against the brotherhood brings the Hound back to potentially meeting Brienne. And Jaime. And maybe his little bird. Point being he came back from the dead and is back in play. And they have more than 3 episodes. The season has Area's fate, a battle of winter tell, more Bran, more siege at River run AND potentially Cersei's trial to resolve. Hounds plot may play out into next year. The rest of this year he might just be hunting lowly members

Gotta love autocorrect. I'm reminded of the time Hot Pie said something about Arya going home to Winterhell. Arya: "It's WinterFELL." Hot Pie: "Are you sure?" lol.

Sure, they don't tie up every plot point in every season, but they do typically follow the rules of TV, and the rules of TV have a lot to say about what you can and cannot leave hanging from one season to another, and when and how twists should be introduced. My impressions about B&W specifically largely come from what they said publicly about Lady Stoneheart back when everyone was expecting her to show up. They thought introducing her at that time would have been ridiculous. It's the same reason they waited until now to introduce Coldhands instead of introducing him when Bran crossed the Wall like in the books.

Yeah, tried to type that on a cheap tablet and it was really cheeky auto correcting names. Have to remember to disable it.

Didn't notice the others but it took 4 tries to get "Cersei's" to stay as is.

[Nevyn]

Terez, on 06 June 2016 - 10:32 AM, said:

Coonass, on 06 June 2016 - 04:44 AM, said:

He doesn't have to be. Just use the name for rally purposes till he becomes Targ.

Yeah, I doubt that will happen, especially considering that 1) the Lyanna reveal is coming in 3 eps' time, and 2) no one who has the power to proclaim him a Stark would do so, and everyone in the North knows that. You think they'd be more likely to get behind him if he started calling himself a Stark? They know how this works. Sansa's problem is that no one wants to risk their necks for this war; they already lost too many men between the Red Wedding and the Ironborn and the Boltons. And the houses further north are extremely wary about the wildlings, the southern ones not much more so. How would Jon calling himself a Stark change anything?

Edit: Also, it seems very likely that Sansa wrote to either the Blackfish or Littlefinger, as was mentioned above. I'm hoping she wrote to her uncle, which opens the opportunity for Brienne to parlay with Jaime; apparently next week Brienne is going to offer her services to the Blackfish after she and Jaime have words. Brienne brokering a truce would give Lady Stoneheart even more reason to want to hang her, even if it is to aid Sansa, and it would probably piss off Littlefinger and shake things up. Littlefinger is at Moat Cailin with the Vale troops.

I meant to comment on this earlier:

Coonass, on 06 June 2016 - 04:44 AM, said:

I wonder whose going to save Arya? Since its dif and Sam never goes to Bravos in show who will fix her? The actress who she saved? Maybe Jaqen(real stretch here) since Waif disobeys, he fixes her to lvl field? Someone has to unless she's just supposed to die.

Ed I'd say maybe Oyster dad from when she was Cat but that's prob off the table since he's associated with FM. Actress seems like her best bet to me.

Technically we have no idea what Sam is going to do. Braavos is a possibility, even though all the reasons he went there in the books are gone. As I mentioned earlier, if he goes to Oldtown, Randyll will find him, because he knows that's where Sam is supposed to go. Anyway, it's obvious that Sam's plot is going to end up very different from what it was in the books. Hopefully we'll learn something about how different in the last 3 episodes.

Pretty sure the letter was to littlefinger. She already sent Brienne to her uncle. And he is somewhat trapped in a siege. But I agree that Jon becoming Jon Stark to rally the North is unlikely. The reveal on his parents may come this year, but just because Bran learns it and the audience does, does not mean anyone else will know or react yet.

Littlefinger coming to Winterfell is interesting for that though, because they hinted that he knows a couple seasons ago, so Jon could conceivably learn from him rather than from Bran.

[Primateus]

Coonass, on 06 June 2016 - 02:21 AM, said:

That was a serious fucking waste of Ian The Fucking Man Motherfucking McShane...

Agreed. After his monologue about his past to his people, I expected him to go on a spree with the Hound against the Brotherhood.

With regards to the Brotherhood, I think a reason why they've turned to banditry could be that what they've been doing so far is only a slight step away from wickedness. It's a slippery slope, they started out with a clear purpose, but as the time went by, the clarity got muddied and they became bandits themselves.

[Nevyn]

Primateus, on 06 June 2016 - 02:54 PM, said:

Coonass, on 06 June 2016 - 02:21 AM, said:

That was a serious fucking waste of Ian The Fucking Man Motherfucking McShane...

Agreed. After his monologue about his past to his people, I expected him to go on a spree with the Hound against the Brotherhood.

With regards to the Brotherhood, I think a reason why they've turned to banditry could be that what they've been doing so far is only a slight step away from wickedness. It's a slippery slope, they started out with a clear purpose, but as the time went by, the clarity got muddied and they became bandits themselves.

Or it could be new leadership ...

[Terez]

Yeah, that was spelled out in the books when Brienne was captured. Things got a lot darker for the Brotherhood when Lady Stoneheart took over, so this could be taken as a clue that she will appear. Also, someone on reddit pointed out that Brienne's theme was playing in the scene where the Hound found all the bodies.

[Terez]

This awesome article was just posted on reddit.

Quote

Qyburn's name, or at least a play off it, has officially entered the US law books. In a published concurring opinion by the nation's largest federal appeals court, two judges from the San Francsico-based 9th US Circuit Court of Appeals wrote that the majority's opinion "comes very close to a qyburnian resurrection of the Jiffy June standard."

The highly nuanced case concerns police officers citing the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) and suing the City of San Gabriel in Southern California over pay and benefits. In its most simplistic definition, the 1972 Jiffy June standard referred to in the qyburnian passage involves a subjective analysis to calculate damages. The two judges who wrote the concurring opinion essentially suggested that the court might have glossed over a 1988 Supreme Court decision that narrowed the Jiffy June standard, meaning the circuit court's case law on the FLSA "is off track."

The concurring opinion was written by Obama appointee Judge John Owens. He was joined in the opinion by Reagan appointee Judge Stephen Trott. Together, Owens and Trott have displayed a daenerysian command of language here, wouldn't you say?

[Nevyn]

Terez, on 06 June 2016 - 03:13 PM, said:

Yeah, that was spelled out in the books when Brienne was captured. Things got a lot darker for the Brotherhood when Lady Stoneheart took over, so this could be taken as a clue that she will appear. Also, someone on reddit pointed out that Brienne's theme was playing in the scene where the Hound found all the bodies.

Yes, between this, and bringing back the mention of the brotherhood with them going after Freys, they seem to be strongly hinting that she will appear. Especially in a season that has been reclaiming other lost plot lines (Iron islands, coldhands)

[Gorefest]

worry, on 06 June 2016 - 06:19 AM, said:

Re: the Waif, yah, she messed up. If she wanted to kill Arya right away, she would have. She wanted Arya to suffer, gave her some non-lethal wounds, and then lost her before she could finish.

Assuming that that was Arya. Just consider this: last week we saw her recover Needle and go into hiding in the dark. Now we suddenly see her in broad daylight, walking around without needle, and throwing massive bags of coins around (where did she get those from suddenly?) before getting stabbed by the waif.


Seems more likely that this 'Arya' is actually Jaqen, the faceless man. He knew the waif was going after Arya and he seemed strangely indifferent to the waif's request at the time, despite all the time and effort he spent on Arya. Could be that he took on Arya's face/identity to mislead the waif and throw her off Arya's trail.

Another question: Jon has Mormont's old valerian sword, right? Why did young lady Mormont not comment on that? Is it simply because the bear head pommel was replaced with a wolf head pommel and she didnt recognise it? You'd think a House with such a sword would know its whereabouts, though? They aren't exactly common.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 06 June 2016 - 09:11 PM

[amphibian]

I have long wondered if the characters within the show/books give that much of a crap about their Valryian swords like the readers/writer do. They seem to not be prized much beyond sentimental value - nobody honestly tries to steal them or preserve them. They just give them to the highest ranked decent warrior in the family and go.

So someone like little lady Mormont may not care about one sword when she's counting exactly how many swords at arms she can give.

[worry]

Yah the Jaqen thing did occur to me later, and it makes some sense (especially given the details).