[NefaraisBredd]

I hear what you are saying, the Azathanai are (like much of SE's creations) mysterious and vague 'gods.' Also, the Vitr and other entities/forces exist even before the Azathanai....i think we might see the Vitr better explained in the FoD sequels...i just think that they need to be placed near or at the beginning of the tree as they are more than just a founding race or whatnot. He has sourced so many mythos it gets confusing sometimes.

[Mentalist]

Also, wyvals should be a sub-species of eleint, no?

[Jade Raven]

I have journeyed as far down this rabbit hole as I want to go for now. The wiki is able to be edited by anyone.

Bluerose seems to me to be a distinct nation, separated from standard Andii by culture and genetics. Moon's Spawn/Coral/Drift Avali is the same culture and people.

Dinal have been added (ref. BH/17 and glossary)

This post has been edited by Jade Raven: 03 October 2015 - 02:56 AM

[Itwæs Nom]

Mentalist, on 18 September 2015 - 02:12 PM, said:

Not sure if this was brought up before, but what about "children of the Earth"? (see RotCg prologue, the Builder from TtH, and the golems inside Burn from MoI).

I realize that Thel consider themselves D'riss-aspected, but my understanding was that the above-mentioned are smth else.

Arent they ancestors to Thel races?

Mentalist, on 25 September 2015 - 04:34 AM, said:

Also, wyvals should be a sub-species of eleint, no?

I dont think so.
Quote from Wiki(wyval page):

Like D'isthal'a, Enkar'al and Trol they were the (lesser) spawn of Starvald Demelain.

so maybe there should be Starvald Demelain races category

This post has been edited by Charlie Nom: 03 October 2015 - 09:20 AM

[jonny_anonymous]

Is the Shake coming under the Andii correct? I'm not sure that's accurate.

[Andorion]

jonny_anonymous, on 03 October 2015 - 11:42 AM, said:

Is the Shake coming under the Andii correct? I'm not sure that's accurate.

Shake are watered down Andii but mostly human. Its only the royal bloodline that retains any power

[Mentalist]

Andorion, on 03 October 2015 - 04:10 PM, said:

jonny_anonymous, on 03 October 2015 - 11:42 AM, said:

Is the Shake coming under the Andii correct? I'm not sure that's accurate.

Shake are watered down Andii but mostly human. Its only the royal bloodline that retains any power

They're watered down Andii, with KCCM mutations. Which makes them a whole other kettle of tadpoles.

[Itwæs Nom]

I think this racial tree by D'rek is very accurate and it might answer some questions if you still have

also it might help anyone editing that list

This post has been edited by Charlie Nom: 03 October 2015 - 09:39 PM

[Mentalist]

Since I enjoy making people's lives complicated....

re-reading DoD, Sandalath and Withal approaching Kharkanas- "Venath, who were allied with the Jaghut... who gave of their blood to the Trell-and what a fell mix that turned out to be "

[Kanese S's]

theocean, on 30 July 2015 - 01:06 PM, said:

Jade Raven, on 30 July 2015 - 11:37 AM, said:

Silanah is an Eleint, but Rake is a soletaken Eleint. The hybrids thing is for that one girl in OST that looks like an Andii, but is actually something else - I forget what exactly. I made this table a while ago and I have not read the books since they were released.... Hey luckily I have wiki: malazan.wikia.com/wiki/Orchid

Jade statues, I don't think I want to go there...

I thought she was just basically a watered version of the Andi.

No, Silanah isn't Andii, she's just Eleint.

Gorefest, on 30 July 2015 - 01:09 PM, said:

Biologically speaking, 'race' is a bit of a tricky classifier. Whereas 'species' is fairly robustly defined as a group of individuals that can produce offspring with other specimens within the same species but not (barring a few exceptions) with other species, 'race' is more of a classification based on physiological traits. So purely based on that, you could indeed lob all Soletaken together because they share a very characteristic phenotype/trait, i.e. the ability to change shape. On the other hand, in the Malazan universe we have seen that what on first glance seem different 'species' can actually have offspring. So that means that for instance Thelomen Toblakai and Jaghut are actually within the same species tree.

This is also where the whole classification as listed above gets highly murky, because why separate the three Tiste races (who are all one species), but not all the different human races (Dal Honese, Falari, etc)? Biologically speaking it is a similar distinction.

Things get a bit murky with species, too, though. Are wolves and coyotes separate species? As apparently they can make hybrids. For our purposes, I would assume that "race" would basically mean "subspecies." But it is very ambiguous.

Jade Raven, on 30 July 2015 - 01:40 PM, said:

Race has a specific meaning in fantasy fiction. It basically means intelligent species. It's a totally separate meaning to Earthly human races.

Orchid is half-Andii, half-Eleint as I understand it.

I'm not going to make every bonecaster a separate race, soletaken don't count. Except Jheck because there is a ton of them. Likewise if you can change your race after you are born then maybe it isn't a race at all.

I don't want this too get too technical, because if you ask Erikson to clarify he will probably say he doesn't know and that should tell you something.

Also Jheck all veer into the same kind of thing. They all become wolves, and shapeshifting is far more widespread with them than any other group we've seen "on-screen," as it were. One might make the argument that soletaken Tiste all take the form of Eleint, but Quick Ben has a Tiste soul in him or something, and as we all know, he's a soletaken platypus....

jonny_anonymous, on 03 October 2015 - 11:42 AM, said:

Is the Shake coming under the Andii correct? I'm not sure that's accurate.

Shake were originally Tiste, but have become mixed with humans.