[Gnaw]

OS X

[LinearPhilosopher]

 Gnaw, on 17 June 2016 - 12:29 AM, said:

OS X

can't stand their UI I like a stable UI and how to wokr the system. ESpcially whenver a new os comes that by teraining to makes sings simpler makes things more complicated as i like things working in a specific manner.

[EmperorMagus]

 Gnaw, on 17 June 2016 - 12:29 AM, said:

OS X

Disclaimer: I don't know how the Apple Unix OS works.

But overall, MS is horrible because their OS stops working/does shit it shouldn't do a lot more than it should.

Apple is terrible because it has assumed that all its customers are mentally retarded by default and therefore not eligible to modify their experience in anyway that might change how Apple has set it up.

I prefer the bugs and BSOD to the terrible and non-flexible design that apple uses. Both companies should burn in fires of hell at this point to make more space for start ups. Just like Intel/Nvidia and google should.

This post has been edited by EmperorMagus: 17 June 2016 - 01:09 AM

[Mentalist]

 LinearPhilosopher, on 16 June 2016 - 11:59 PM, said:

So i found out windows 10 was set as a reccomended update.

Was not happy when it was installed on my dekstop.

Was espcially displeased when rebooting my computer a week later it wouldnt boot up anymore

Then the bill came from my tech, 2hrs of labour at 65$ for HST for fixing an issue where it was dual booting 7 and 10 and failing.

I still have not had a chance to connect my desktop and reinstall certain software (forexample razer synapse no longer works after the upgrade)

In short, microsoft is terrible

I turned off instaliing recommended updates on win7 when I first heard about that.

I also suspect that my laptop's sound driver suddenly spazzing out around the time Win 10 rolled out was a gentle nudge towards upgrading. I had a whale of the time trying to revert back to factory settings with an update loop. Thankfully I had a Win7 install Cd from my desktop and I just reinstalled that and used lappy's serial to authenticate.

As far as I can tell the only valuable thing I failed to back up were 7 years worth of Uni lecture notes.

[LinearPhilosopher]

 Mentalist, on 17 June 2016 - 01:15 AM, said:

 LinearPhilosopher, on 16 June 2016 - 11:59 PM, said:

So i found out windows 10 was set as a reccomended update.

Was not happy when it was installed on my dekstop.

Was espcially displeased when rebooting my computer a week later it wouldnt boot up anymore

Then the bill came from my tech, 2hrs of labour at 65$ for HST for fixing an issue where it was dual booting 7 and 10 and failing.

I still have not had a chance to connect my desktop and reinstall certain software (forexample razer synapse no longer works after the upgrade)

In short, microsoft is terrible

I turned off instaliing recommended updates on win7 when I first heard about that.

I also suspect that my laptop's sound driver suddenly spazzing out around the time Win 10 rolled out was a gentle nudge towards upgrading. I had a whale of the time trying to revert back to factory settings with an update loop. Thankfully I had a Win7 install Cd from my desktop and I just reinstalled that and used lappy's serial to authenticate.

As far as I can tell the only valuable thing I failed to back up were 7 years worth of Uni lecture notes.

see i hadnt heard anything about it.

[Andorion]

 LinearPhilosopher, on 17 June 2016 - 03:38 AM, said:

 Mentalist, on 17 June 2016 - 01:15 AM, said:

 LinearPhilosopher, on 16 June 2016 - 11:59 PM, said:

So i found out windows 10 was set as a reccomended update.

Was not happy when it was installed on my dekstop.

Was espcially displeased when rebooting my computer a week later it wouldnt boot up anymore

Then the bill came from my tech, 2hrs of labour at 65$ for HST for fixing an issue where it was dual booting 7 and 10 and failing.

I still have not had a chance to connect my desktop and reinstall certain software (forexample razer synapse no longer works after the upgrade)

In short, microsoft is terrible

I turned off instaliing recommended updates on win7 when I first heard about that.

I also suspect that my laptop's sound driver suddenly spazzing out around the time Win 10 rolled out was a gentle nudge towards upgrading. I had a whale of the time trying to revert back to factory settings with an update loop. Thankfully I had a Win7 install Cd from my desktop and I just reinstalled that and used lappy's serial to authenticate.

As far as I can tell the only valuable thing I failed to back up were 7 years worth of Uni lecture notes.

see i hadnt heard anything about it.

Right from XP I have never let MS install stuff automatically. I always get it to ask me first.

[LinearPhilosopher]

 Andorion, on 17 June 2016 - 03:49 AM, said:

 LinearPhilosopher, on 17 June 2016 - 03:38 AM, said:

 Mentalist, on 17 June 2016 - 01:15 AM, said:

 LinearPhilosopher, on 16 June 2016 - 11:59 PM, said:

So i found out windows 10 was set as a reccomended update.

Was not happy when it was installed on my dekstop.

Was espcially displeased when rebooting my computer a week later it wouldnt boot up anymore

Then the bill came from my tech, 2hrs of labour at 65$ for HST for fixing an issue where it was dual booting 7 and 10 and failing.

I still have not had a chance to connect my desktop and reinstall certain software (forexample razer synapse no longer works after the upgrade)

In short, microsoft is terrible

I turned off instaliing recommended updates on win7 when I first heard about that.

I also suspect that my laptop's sound driver suddenly spazzing out around the time Win 10 rolled out was a gentle nudge towards upgrading. I had a whale of the time trying to revert back to factory settings with an update loop. Thankfully I had a Win7 install Cd from my desktop and I just reinstalled that and used lappy's serial to authenticate.

As far as I can tell the only valuable thing I failed to back up were 7 years worth of Uni lecture notes.

see i hadnt heard anything about it.

Right from XP I have never let MS install stuff automatically. I always get it to ask me first.

I usualy choose the updates as well sigh.

live and learn, at least hte current laptop hasnt received an update on 7 since 2014! Falling apart (physically, but still operable)

[Tiste Simeon]

Where would the place be to stop auto-updates? I personally haven't had any issues with W10 so far, my desktop seems to be running fine.

The only problem I have had which is marginally related is I can't play Rome Total War any more due to DirectX or something. Weird.

[LinearPhilosopher]

 Tiste Simeon, on 17 June 2016 - 06:20 AM, said:

Where would the place be to stop auto-updates? I personally haven't had any issues with W10 so far, my desktop seems to be running fine.

The only problem I have had which is marginally related is I can't play Rome Total War any more due to DirectX or something. Weird.

windows update setting

as for rome total war, rome total war was released for what windows xp? not surprising there would be backwards comptability issues.

[EmperorMagus]

 LinearPhilosopher, on 17 June 2016 - 11:45 AM, said:

 Tiste Simeon, on 17 June 2016 - 06:20 AM, said:

Where would the place be to stop auto-updates? I personally haven't had any issues with W10 so far, my desktop seems to be running fine.

The only problem I have had which is marginally related is I can't play Rome Total War any more due to DirectX or something. Weird.

windows update setting

as for rome total war, rome total war was released for what windows xp? not surprising there would be backwards comptability issues.

Which btw, you can't really change in W10. (yeah I know, beating a dead horse)

[Puck]

But you can, apparently, block Win10 from downloading updates via a particular connection, which for most people is the one they use at home. You have to set the option for every connection you use separately, if you want it to never happen but use you laptop almost everywhere.

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

If you don't want to upgrade automatically to Windows 10, use https://www.grc.com/never10.htm. It's a portable (don't need to install) exe that modifies a few registry settings to prevent the upgrade. It's from Steve Gibson, who is a well-known security resarcher.

You may also want to disable automatic updates - but then you will have to ( you should) manually install updates once a week.

[EmperorMagus]

 Puck, on 17 June 2016 - 12:17 PM, said:

But you can, apparently, block Win10 from downloading updates via a particular connection, which for most people is the one they use at home. You have to set the option for every connection you use separately, if you want it to never happen but use you laptop almost everywhere.

That apparently does not work with wired connections, which is what I use.

Edit: it seems like it is possible to completely disable Windows Updates as an app, which is what I'll do.

This post has been edited by EmperorMagus: 17 June 2016 - 08:34 PM

[Tiste Simeon]

 LinearPhilosopher, on 17 June 2016 - 11:45 AM, said:

 Tiste Simeon, on 17 June 2016 - 06:20 AM, said:

Where would the place be to stop auto-updates? I personally haven't had any issues with W10 so far, my desktop seems to be running fine.

The only problem I have had which is marginally related is I can't play Rome Total War any more due to DirectX or something. Weird.

windows update setting

as for rome total war, rome total war was released for what windows xp? not surprising there would be backwards comptability issues.

Yeah I figured that was the case but I was still sad...

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

 EmperorMagus, on 17 June 2016 - 08:07 PM, said:

 Puck, on 17 June 2016 - 12:17 PM, said:

But you can, apparently, block Win10 from downloading updates via a particular connection, which for most people is the one they use at home. You have to set the option for every connection you use separately, if you want it to never happen but use you laptop almost everywhere.

That apparently does not work with wired connections, which is what I use.

Edit: it seems like it is possible to completely disable Windows Updates as an app, which is what I'll do.

This is a bad idea. Security updates are important.

[Silencer]

Literally the biggest issue I have with Win10 is the enforced updates (which, on the home version you essentially cannot even delay without work-arounds). I know that, in theory, these updates are "large scale beta-tested" through the preview/early adoption users, but that's not good enough, honestly. Microsoft have bricked Xbox consoles in the past with updates, and it brings almost no tangible advantages to anyone but the most disconnected of users who leaves their PC on 24/7 and never does anything important with it.

To me, it's just another manifestation of Microsoft's current obsession with controlling their consumers (first seen in recent times with the atrocious UI in Win8, then the Xbox One always online/required Kinect/etc shenanigans), and it sucks.



That having been said, it's not the end of the world. If you use your computer in an office/non sleeping area, and it needs to update, you can just let it do that while it shuts down (for me, my desktop PC is in my bedroom, so not a great option). It almost never forces me to update while I'm actually using my computer. Though it does like scheduling the update process for 3am - which, sure, I'm not using my PC, but my PC is also off, so good luck with that, Windows. XD
My bigger concern is my laptop, where Windows doesn't seem to have any issue with forcing updates when I'm on battery and need to shut the damn thing down. I'm pretty sure the process is supposed to realize that my laptop is low on power and not do the updates, but it doesn't seem to work that way in practice. Plus, I've had enough issues with Windows updates hanging that I actually like to make sure the update completes; which again is frustrating when I'm ready to sleep or go out, and it wants to do the update.

Either way, it's annoying, but it's not like it updates all the time, and almost every update I've had since the early days has completed in minutes, if not quicker. Granted, both my rigs have SSDs, spare RAM, and fast CPUs, and lately my internet is 100MBps fibre, so downloading updates in the background is barely noticeable now. I know that when my internet was less awesome the biggest issue I had with updates (on any OS) were the downloads eating my bandwidth and slowing the internet to a crawl.

But, if you really want to be able to control when updates are deployed, I'm pretty sure the Pro edition still lets you defer updates for a while. Though there was some article floating around about Microsoft getting rid of that, but I can't remember if it was happening for real or not. Still not ideal, but better than nothing.


In short: yes, totally worth it. Windows 10 is not perfect, it's not even as good as 7 overall. But it's a damn sight better than 8 or 8.1, and excluding the horrific default settings (seriously, even if you're generally OK with sending data to Microsoft, don't do the express installation, 'coz there's a couple of settings in there relating to automatically joining Wifi hotspots that are begging for viruses and general exploitation) and the forced update cycle, it's definitely the better OS. Plus 8 had the same horrific default settings to a degree, so yeah. And as 7 becomes increasingly unsupported it becomes increasingly difficult to keep it as your everyday OS. Sadly, Microsoft have figured that out. It's probably not worth keeping the older OS just out of sheer stubbornness at this point, so if you don't need to keep it or *seriously* object to the practices in Win10, you might as well upgrade.

[Andorion]

 Silencer, on 18 June 2016 - 01:21 PM, said:

Literally the biggest issue I have with Win10 is the enforced updates (which, on the home version you essentially cannot even delay without work-arounds). I know that, in theory, these updates are "large scale beta-tested" through the preview/early adoption users, but that's not good enough, honestly. Microsoft have bricked Xbox consoles in the past with updates, and it brings almost no tangible advantages to anyone but the most disconnected of users who leaves their PC on 24/7 and never does anything important with it.

To me, it's just another manifestation of Microsoft's current obsession with controlling their consumers (first seen in recent times with the atrocious UI in Win8, then the Xbox One always online/required Kinect/etc shenanigans), and it sucks.



That having been said, it's not the end of the world. If you use your computer in an office/non sleeping area, and it needs to update, you can just let it do that while it shuts down (for me, my desktop PC is in my bedroom, so not a great option). It almost never forces me to update while I'm actually using my computer. Though it does like scheduling the update process for 3am - which, sure, I'm not using my PC, but my PC is also off, so good luck with that, Windows. XD
My bigger concern is my laptop, where Windows doesn't seem to have any issue with forcing updates when I'm on battery and need to shut the damn thing down. I'm pretty sure the process is supposed to realize that my laptop is low on power and not do the updates, but it doesn't seem to work that way in practice. Plus, I've had enough issues with Windows updates hanging that I actually like to make sure the update completes; which again is frustrating when I'm ready to sleep or go out, and it wants to do the update.

Either way, it's annoying, but it's not like it updates all the time, and almost every update I've had since the early days has completed in minutes, if not quicker. Granted, both my rigs have SSDs, spare RAM, and fast CPUs, and lately my internet is 100MBps fibre, so downloading updates in the background is barely noticeable now. I know that when my internet was less awesome the biggest issue I had with updates (on any OS) were the downloads eating my bandwidth and slowing the internet to a crawl.

But, if you really want to be able to control when updates are deployed, I'm pretty sure the Pro edition still lets you defer updates for a while. Though there was some article floating around about Microsoft getting rid of that, but I can't remember if it was happening for real or not. Still not ideal, but better than nothing.


In short: yes, totally worth it. Windows 10 is not perfect, it's not even as good as 7 overall. But it's a damn sight better than 8 or 8.1, and excluding the horrific default settings (seriously, even if you're generally OK with sending data to Microsoft, don't do the express installation, 'coz there's a couple of settings in there relating to automatically joining Wifi hotspots that are begging for viruses and general exploitation) and the forced update cycle, it's definitely the better OS. Plus 8 had the same horrific default settings to a degree, so yeah. And as 7 becomes increasingly unsupported it becomes increasingly difficult to keep it as your everyday OS. Sadly, Microsoft have figured that out. It's probably not worth keeping the older OS just out of sheer stubbornness at this point, so if you don't need to keep it or *seriously* object to the practices in Win10, you might as well upgrade.

I just finished upgrading.

Overall everything seems ok but I do have to update a bunch of drivers which my laptop was apparently ignoring. Still doing that.

No one should ever do an express install. The default settings are horrendous. Also you get to disable the default apps. I only kept Photos which seems mediocre. I miss Picasa already.

Also 100Mbps internet? I have 1 Mbps

[Puck]

 Whisperzzzzzzz, on 18 June 2016 - 12:18 PM, said:

 EmperorMagus, on 17 June 2016 - 08:07 PM, said:

 Puck, on 17 June 2016 - 12:17 PM, said:

But you can, apparently, block Win10 from downloading updates via a particular connection, which for most people is the one they use at home. You have to set the option for every connection you use separately, if you want it to never happen but use you laptop almost everywhere.

That apparently does not work with wired connections, which is what I use.

Edit: it seems like it is possible to completely disable Windows Updates as an app, which is what I'll do.

This is a bad idea. Security updates are important.

^This. I see the point in not installing updates right away, as sometimes they can be buggy, but some updates are important for security reasons and such.If you disable updates, you should go through them in regular intervals and manually install the important ones.

[EmperorMagus]

 Puck, on 18 June 2016 - 01:49 PM, said:

 Whisperzzzzzzz, on 18 June 2016 - 12:18 PM, said:

 EmperorMagus, on 17 June 2016 - 08:07 PM, said:

 Puck, on 17 June 2016 - 12:17 PM, said:

But you can, apparently, block Win10 from downloading updates via a particular connection, which for most people is the one they use at home. You have to set the option for every connection you use separately, if you want it to never happen but use you laptop almost everywhere.

That apparently does not work with wired connections, which is what I use.

Edit: it seems like it is possible to completely disable Windows Updates as an app, which is what I'll do.

This is a bad idea. Security updates are important.

^This. I see the point in not installing updates right away, as sometimes they can be buggy, but some updates are important for security reasons and such.If you disable updates, you should go through them in regular intervals and manually install the important ones.

I don't want to derail this thread by arguing about the importance of updates, so I'll keep this short.

So long as I keep the data kept on my computer limited to stuff that I don't mind losing (or have backups of) then there is nothing that security updates can do for me. I have everything I absolutely need on external drives and cloud storage (for the non-private stuff), so a critical system failure is not that much of an issue IF it happens.

Even more important than having backup is not being stupid on the internet. I don't download shady torrents, download or install shady exe files, use disreputable (AKA free ones that are full of flashing ads) porn websites, or click on links I don't know. I firmly believe that is making me as safe as anybody else so long as there is not a concentrated attack on me (and who is going to attempt hacking a broke college student).

This is just my personal experience. My last laptop (bought for me in 2010 as a birthday gift) has been working for me daily for 6 years. In that time, I have not updated anything except my browsers. It's still running on the original W7 it had on it (I've done a few formats and reinstalled the windows from CD but no updates). I've never had an update related problem with it. My current laptop also has W7 on it, and it has not been updated after the first time MS fucked me with their updates system in 2014. The only problem I've ever had with it has been when I installed an up-to-date version of my GPU's driver, which broke the GPU and had me searching for a solution for 2 hours before I installed a 2 year old version of that driver and solved the problem.

My point being, I've never benefited from updating (only ever seen negatives from it in fact), while I've never had any negative experiences caused by not updating.

Edit: This obviously does not apply to everyone. It is also a stupid course of action if you're potentially liable for lost/stolen data or depend on the data for your livelihood. I have no idea how large scale IT works so it probably is not a good idea most commercial/industrial uses either.

This post has been edited by EmperorMagus: 18 June 2016 - 02:46 PM

[Andorion]

Just an update.

I can in fact play Rome Total War on Windows 10